r/politics • u/Murky-Site7468 • 4d ago

'Chill The F**k Out': John Fetterman Urges Democrats To Stick With Joe Biden | The Pennsylvania senator reminded panicked Democrats on Friday that he too had a bad debate once, yet he went on to win his Senate seat.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-debate-john-fetterman_n_667ea850e4b0415858d6a2f1
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u/NanoDaMan 4d ago

He forgot to mention his opponent was a TV grifter who didn't really live in PA. We didn't have many options in PA.

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u/jmcgit Connecticut 4d ago

Biden's opponent is a TV grifter too

Though frankly that's probably the only reason Biden still has a chance

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u/BLF402 4d ago

If you go back and watch the debate last night Biden was more on point when it comes to the platform whereas trump was just spewing nonsense lies and self congratulatory rhetoric.

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u/jmcgit Connecticut 4d ago

Sure, but that’s not going to help him. You don’t win debates by being right, you win them by being persuasive.

Nobody expected Trump to go out there and tell the truth, but they hoped Biden would be able to expose his lies to a national audience and make him look like the clown that he is. If Biden can’t do that, it’d be nice if the candidate was someone who can.

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u/snorin 4d ago

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How is Trump saying the same thing over again no matter the question persuasive. He just repeats I'm the best, no one has seen someone as great as me before. Biden is bad. He had nothing to say the entire time. I don't get how that is persuasive.

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u/gottago_gottago 4d ago

There are three kinds of arguments: logos, or arguments from facts and logic; ethos, or arguments from ethics and morality; and pathos, or arguments from emotion.

You're viewing the debate as argument-from-logos, but more people are persuaded by argument-from-pathos. For those people, the person that speaks more clearly, confidently, and loudly is the winner.

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u/KazzieMono 3d ago

Also known as charisma. You can be the dumbest fucking idiot on the planet, but as long as you’re charismatic and loud and you talk over everyone, people will fold.

It’s such shit. Humanity’s brains are fucked.

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u/snorin 4d ago

Necessarily your definition includes the word argument. Trump didn't have an argument. He lied in the same way essentially in the same words no matter the question. He did not present a view point, he just made things up.

That is what I don't understand. I don't know how anyone can say he won the debate, when everything he said is beyond disconnected from reality.

The only people who could say he won are those that already supported him.

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u/jmcgit Connecticut 4d ago

It’s because it’s a debate, not a quiz. You don’t need substance to win a debate. It’s like that Family Guy skit where Lois Griffin won a debate by saying 9/11 over and over again.

He won by presentation.

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u/snorin 4d ago

But he didn't present anything. That is my issue. He said the exact same thing that he always says.

I feel like I just don't get it which is frustrating to me. I want to understand.

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u/endlessupending 3d ago

If you wanna truly understand the mind of a trumpist you're gonna have to start huffing some glue, and keep huffing until he starts making sense. This may be irreversible

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u/jmcgit Connecticut 4d ago

The only thing you’re missing is the fact that the bar was so low that the repetitive garbage he brought to the table was enough to win. Biden might have smoked Trump if he was 15 years younger, but it didn’t play out that way.

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u/Shrekinator321 4d ago

Read my comment.

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u/Shrekinator321 4d ago

Because the average American isn’t that far off intelligently from the average human. And the average human is motivated by emotion and “feel” rather than facts and logic. This is why pathos is so powerful and logos is mainly used in institutes of science.

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u/IndigoHawk 4d ago

Yeah same. I left the debate knowing specific things Biden wants to do and how he's going to achieve them. For example, he's going to keep Social Security solvent by raising taxes on high earners. He's going to improve border security with additional agents, revised asylum laws, and drug scanning machines. Etc.

From Trump, all I heard was that no bad thing would happen if Trump was elected and magically everything would be fixed. Wars would end. Illegal immigrants would be gone. No idea how. Also the border is somehow responsible for all problems everywhere. Trump provided zero information and dodged all questions and clearly lost the debate.

I think maybe people don't know what debates are. Trump is loud and confident and lies about everything. I guess people think that's what debate is. That's a performance, not a debate.

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u/snorin 4d ago

He said he would end the Ukrainian war before he even was sworn in. But have no comments on what that means, what/how he would pull this amazing feat off.

He talked about abortions after birth????

And then "I'm the best👈👉 I'm the most tremendously president, some say 👌👌of all time. My statistics guy actually just gave me that stat, okay 👐 he said to me , wow, 👐 you are so tremendous, no one has ever, and Biden👌is the worst, weaponization at level no one has seen,👆 he should be in jail because I'm the best👌."

I truly do not understand how anyone can see his face and hear what he said and then be like yes, that's my guy.

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u/joshdoereddit 4d ago

I think maybe people don't know what debates are.

This. I'm not some expert on debating, but I'm pretty sure people don't know what debates actually are. Just like they don't have a decent enough understanding of how our government works. People mad that Biden didn't accomplish more probably don't understand that Congress plays a pretty substantial role in policy-making.

People these days are also lacking in critical thinking skills and nuance. That's why the GOP propaganda machine is as effective as it is. It's all soundbites.

That's what I've come to understand from the last 8 years or so.

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u/FlyingFortress26 4d ago

because the average human being is not smart.

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u/Aldrik90 4d ago

The contrast between the way the two of them speak was on display for the world to see. If trump was speaking more clearly and coherently that's all that really matters to public perception when Biden sounded like that.

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

Y’all are telling on yourselves honestly

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u/FairPudding40 4d ago

I completely agree, but I feel like that after most of these debates (people really seem to think the yeller is the winner and I do not get it -- who wants a president who yells at everyone?!)

Fortunately, as results start to trickle in, it turns out an awful lot of on-the-fence republicans think Biden did much better than they expected and are feeling a bit better about voting for him now that they saw for themselves that he's fine.

Anecdotally, I've been shocked by how many people in my circle who are anti Trump but were not going to vote for Biden have texted me and said, "You were right, he's fine." He's a quiet, kind man who's a talented politician -- we could do a heck of a lot worse for president.

And Biden didn't need help getting off stage after the whole shebang was over (Trump did).

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u/Responsible_Pizza945 3d ago

Imagine you're the average American, basically checked out on politics and not paying any attention. Here on r/politics basically everyone follows the news, but most Americans live with blinders on when it comes to political events. This is why republican messaging is so effective despite it often being flat out lies - it reaches the people who only hear about something once in a blue moon. Democrats can have ten thousand small victories on issues across the board and nobody hears about it, but Republicans get one thing and they start chanting USA.

The presidential debates are one of the few predictable times the average checked out schmuck can expect to get a general idea of their options, so a lot more people pay attention to those than to 'random political rally in a state they don't live in.'

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u/jmcgit Connecticut 4d ago

It's not just what you say, it's how you say it. Biden wasn't better enough in substance to overcome the dramatic charisma difference.

It's less that Trump was so good that he persuaded people to embrace him, as it is that Biden performed poorly enough that some people are backing away from him. Negative persuasion, you could call it.

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u/Useless 4d ago

Trump leaves an impression in peoples minds which contrasts with the impression of Biden. Some people recall numbers, people, places when they remember, some people recall feelings. Trump said not much of anything in a confident and assertive manner, which is what the feelings folks remember as the content of his speech fades, and most likely was not critically evaluated in anything but the most superficial manner. Much of human reasoning throughout history has been people having feelings then justifying them. And those people still vote.

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u/snorin 4d ago

I can understand that I think

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u/DarkKerrigor 4d ago

I wish Katie Porter would team up with some drag queens, and coach Biden on reading an opponent to filth with facts.

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u/1one1000two1thousand District Of Columbia 4d ago

Hillary won all her debates against Trump and still lost.

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u/zipzzo 4d ago

Winning debates also doesn't win elections either.

Hillary won all of her debates with Trump handily but didn't stop her from losing.

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u/SirLeaf 4d ago

Trump steamrolled Hillary. Their 3rd debate was not close. Maybe Hillary had facts on her side, but Trump won with the ooh's and ahh's that night. He had the crowd on his side. Even my family members who vote blue no matter who know that Trump outdid everyone on the debate stage in 2016.

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

No…Hillary literally won all 3 from the audience poll. You’re lying lol

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u/SirLeaf 4d ago

Not a lie to give an anecdote and say that people I know believe Trump steamrolled Hillary.

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

Lol using anecdotes from your family as evidence that Trump won the debates isn’t the winning argument you think it is

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/curious_carson 3d ago

My husband and I still accuse each other of being the puppet. This is a weird time-line.

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u/SirLeaf 3d ago

Larping?

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/SirLeaf 3d ago

What do you mean by that?

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

I mean only if you’re performing for morons is that the case

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u/Rizzpooch I voted 4d ago

Nobody expected Trump to go out there and tell the truth

But, like, that's a problem. That should be disqualifying in and of itself. Goddamnit

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u/raouldukeesq 3d ago

Of course it will help him.  Me and the other guy are voting for him for this very reason. And so are, let me check my notes, the 10s of millions of women who want freedom of choice over their own bodies. 

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u/Onslaughtered 4d ago

Yeah not how debates work so 🤷🏼‍♂️. Debates aren’t pointing out the lies and deception. It’s about answering your prompts.

Not saying either candidate looked like their peak self but at least Biden had answers vs. spewing the same lies and rhetoric by by trump

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u/CruffTheMagicDragon 4d ago

A lot of those lies have taken root in the mainstream though, like the economy and whatnot

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

I mean, when CNN does nothing to push back against Trump we can see why

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u/ArmyOfDix Kansas 4d ago

But we knew that would happen before the debate. There was literally, LITERALLY nothing for Biden to gain by debating Trump. Yet the sitting President of the United States agreed to share the stage and give credibility to a fraud/rapist/insurrectionist/convict.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/infamouswr54 4d ago

Relax, Tucker

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u/Agent_Scoon 4d ago

Am I wrong? Whats Tucker mean.. is that an insult?

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Agent_Scoon 4d ago

What part of it was wrong? Well that stinks. I despise him and Fox News so that's a weird correlation.

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u/infamouswr54 4d ago

It's not a weird correlation, you're overreacting and not thinking about what you're saying. It was one debate, everyone is aware of Biden's age and the situation.

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u/Agent_Scoon 4d ago

Apologies let me rephrase. You said I was wrong. In which part of my comment was wrong?

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u/noiserr 4d ago

It is not cope. Biden while looking frail and not really being all there, still delivered some coherent responses which were factual. I mean I know it's a really low bar, but the person above is saying the truth. As the debate went on Biden kept improving with his responses.

That said, I still think he lost the debate. But perhaps there is a silver lining. The Dem voters now for sure know that there is a real possibility of Trump winning. And that may actually boost the votes for Biden. Biden actually received a surge in donations post debate, I think for this very reason.

This is not cope.

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u/Agent_Scoon 4d ago

The democrats should be ashamed that they even put him up there in that state. This is truly not fair to him. He looked lost and confused very similar to my grandfather before passing. The thousand yard stare and constant zoning out and mumbling.

"Delivered some coherent responses" that comment alone should trigger a protest against what the party is doing to this elderly man. Is there no empathy out there? Why are they doing this to him. It truly sat unwell with me how we treat the elderly in this country. Trump barely won in 2016 and got beat decently in 2020. The trump we see now is the easiest trump to beat we have ever seen. The dems keep playing a terrible game they could nominate almsot any half decent governor and likely beat trump. What is their end game here?

Trump didn't perform well at all last night but Biden lost by default. He was hardly present for the debate. But it feels wrong to even say he lost because what chance did this man even have???

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u/noiserr 4d ago

"Delivered some coherent responses" that comment alone should trigger a protest against what the party is doing to this elderly man.

Trump delivered no coherent and factual responses as far as I could tell. So that was my point. He never stayed on point and while he did look and sound about 30 years younger, his debate performance was absolutely terrible as well.

Listen I do hope dems pick someone younger. But I do actually believe Biden could still win.

The reason I say this is because Biden didn't win on enthusiasm of his voters the first time. He won because he's a decent man and America hates Trump. The debate didn't change this. And if anything this may motivate more blue voters to come out and vote.

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u/Agent_Scoon 4d ago

If you're telling me that trump made 0 factual statement in the entire debate then this conversation cannot continue. That is such extreme bias it's not even worth discussing.

I am personally not voting for trump but why would I ever say he said 0 factual things in the whole debate. Thats a really bad take.

How is Biden a good man? He's been a historical pro war politician who has dead Palestinian children's blood on his hands. Hes a guy that opposed lgbtq rights for just about 70+ years of his life. He is hardly a democrat. The party is failing because they keep nominating people like him instead of Bernie that has a historical political career of consistently for human rights. Bernie is a good man. Joe Biden is a purely a politician.

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u/noiserr 4d ago edited 4d ago

If you're telling me that trump made 0 factual statement in the entire debate then this conversation cannot continue. That is such extreme bias it's not even worth discussing.

Feel free to point some out, but every response I heard from Trump was either deflection, self aggrandizement or blatant lies: "I did not sleep with a prostitute!"

I mean that one line should be enough to sink any would be president's campaign in an instant. Considering he just got convicted for bribing the said prostitute in a hush money trial for it. But because it's Trump it's normalized for some reason.

And he again refused to say that he would concede the election if he lost it. Like this should disqualify him from running from office, given what happened on Jan6 and the plot to overturn the government with fake electors.

Sometimes I think I'm living in a twilight zone, how is Trump eligible for office?

He accused Biden for being a Chinese Manchurian candidate, while in the same breath admitting he talked to Putin about letting him take Ukraine.

Yes Biden lost the debate because he looked out of it. But he's still a miles better candidate than Trump, who's a lying grifter, convicted criminal, would be dictator who doesn't believe in peaceful transition of power.

How is Biden a good man? He's been a historical pro war politician who has dead Palestinian children's blood on his hands. Hes a guy that opposed lgbtq rights for just about 70+ years of his life. He is hardly a democrat. The party is failing because they keep nominating people like him instead of Bernie that has a historical political career of consistently for human rights. Bernie is a good man. Joe Biden is a purely a politician.

Please. Israel is an "ally". A president does not have the power to change 70 years of foreign policy in an instant. Particularly considering the powerful lobby he's up against. There are definitely signs of him putting pressure on Netanyahu, something you would not get with Trump. He is also pushing for a 2 state solution, which many believe is the only thin thread towards peace. Anyone who thinks any other president would act any differently is just being naive.

Hes a guy that opposed lgbtq rights for just about 70+ years of his life.

Biden is old. America has changed drastically when it comes to LGBTQ rights in the past 20 years. Besides he's done a lot of pro LGBTQ things now. Again. This is in start contrast to any republican. Check out his pro LGBTQ timeline and you will seen he's done a lot of good things here: https://www.hrc.org/resources/president-bidens-pro-lgbtq-timeline

Frankly I can't think of any other president who's done more for the LGBTQ community.

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u/Agent_Scoon 4d ago

To make this simple. I scrolled to a random part of the debate and trump talked about how the United States conducted an operation which resulted in the death of Al-baghdadi. This statement is factual. You said trump made 0 factual statements. How do you dispute this as false?

Trumps statement was "I did not have sex with a porn star" and to be pedantic on language that statement is true. The person he had sex with at that time was not a porn star. This is why language is extremely important.

Example: if I worked at McDonald's 20 years ago and work at Burger King now then slept with someone. If they said "I slept with a McDonald's worker" that is a false statement. Trump is very very deceptive in his speech but he makes himself right even in a sneaky immoral way.

Again, he's sneaky and language and speech is important. He said he would accept the results IF it was a fair election. Why does he do this tactic? Because fair is quite subjective .. if one vote is accidentally miscounted does that constitute a fair election? Human errors occur. If that's his definition of fair he may never concede.

Trump is eligible for office given our laws. Whether you and I agree with this or not.

My logic on Biden not supporting lgbtq for majority of his life is not necessarily to say he hasn't done anything but to show how good of a person Bernie is. Bernie has fought for rights for LBGTQ since the 1970s if I am not mistaken. So while Bernie was fighting for these rights for decades and Biden was never on board.. finally 50 years later Biden hops on board ? I know people can change but my opinion thinks this is for votes.

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u/AWanderingGygax 4d ago

This is RBG all over again, Colbert training montage and all. Van Jones could barely comment last night due to tears in his eyes over Biden's physical welfare. Kamala couldn't keep a clear voice, it was something out of VEEP.

But on Reddit people "don't see" the Democrat panic. You guys need to be absolutely terrified right now.

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u/noiserr 4d ago edited 4d ago

This is RBG all over again

I've seen people make this parallel before, and I don't think it quite applies here. RBG situation was unique to SCOTUS. She could have stepped down during Obama when asked and preserved the seat in the process, without the need of electorate. She selfishly decided not to.

This time the choice is much harder.

  • Biden beat Trump already.

  • Biden is not a generally hated President and is going against an opponent who is.

  • Biden is an incumbent who improved the economy (this is a big one).

  • He's genuinely done a lot of good things in the office (and some not so great things, but such is the nature of the job).

And while I do hope they pick someone younger. I do not think it's at all an easy decision like it was when it comes to RBG.

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u/AWanderingGygax 4d ago

By "this is RBG all over again" I mean that people are hedging on a "safe" octogenarian bet that will inevitably fail when it's time to swing the bat.

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u/Ok_Meaning_6862 4d ago

Reddit is a combination of russian, chinese and democrat party bots they wont see anything

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

I love how y’all are too foolish to even realize you out yourselves as regular consumers of Fox News and the like

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u/Fat_Blob_Kelly 4d ago

it’s interesting to see people criticize trump for speaking nonsense when biden on multiple occasions was off topic, lost track of what he was talking about, wasn’t speaking loudly

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u/Agent_Scoon 4d ago

If trump had half the performance of Biden I'd love to see what the media would be saying.

I commend trump for his character in the debate. He didn't once make fun of Bidens speech besides a comment that he didn't know what Biden meant and that Biden didn't know either. Trump could have destroyed him but he held back likely knowing it's a medical issue.

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u/Fat_Blob_Kelly 4d ago

Trump played it smart, kinda held himself back overall in an attempt to seem level headed and not the convicted felon that he is and would be portrayed as. The problem isn’t about trump, the problem is about having the democrat candidate inspire voters to vote, i dont think biden inspires voters to get out and vote democrat, they need to change out biden

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u/JonnyRocks 4d ago

that's the thing. and regardless of his speaking presence his white house does great things. Whether its him or if he is a phenomenal delegator, i fell safe with him and his staff in the white house

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u/ManSauceMaster 4d ago

That was for a reason. It allowed him to get more speaking time in. Step 1: Biden vomits his slurred sundowning ass speech. Step 2: Trump shits on him and gloats, using up his time Step 3. Moderator " Trump. Answer the question." Step 4 Trump answers/deflects/ or lies (pick what's applicable for the moment).

I mean the only time Biden didn't look absolutey fucking horrible was when he was arguing and challenging trump to golf shit 🙄

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u/Ven18 4d ago

and despite what people believe the American votes historically do actually care about policy and vison for the country. Debates historically done even mean anything. Even the historic JFK Nixon debate has been warped after the fact by the media to make themselves feel more important than they are. At the time most media commentators even though who watched on TV praised Nixon's performance. The difference was the JFK was a specially charismatic individual who was able to have broad appeal neither Trump or Biden are that

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

Charisma doesn’t really bring about broad appeal anymore, things are too polarized

See: Obama

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u/Gyshall669 4d ago

Biden could barely get through a sentence. Obviously what Trump said is nonsense but it’s hard to say what Biden’s platform even is based on last night.

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u/NanoDaMan 4d ago

This is true. I voted for Fetterman because he lived in PA. I wasn't voting for an outsider. So did many others, regardless of his views.

My point was that this is not a strong argument, because the scenario was very different.

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u/palm0 4d ago

Trump is a TV grifter that all but admitted during the debate that he is a Russian asset. He told us that Putin told him that he wanted to invade Ukraine and that he could get Putin to end the war before he took office of he were elected. So either another set of bullshit lies or admitting to collusion with Russia.

He also runs in a platform of being a person of the people but he was born into extreme wealth and has perpetuated his own wealth through criminal activities both before, during, and after his presidency.

He's also a convicted fucking felon carpetbagger.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/palm0 4d ago

You changed your argument from "his opponent was a TV grifter that didn't really live in PA" to "there were no other options."

But even though you're arguing in bad faith be calling my examples of parallels between Trump and Oz I'll pretend you argent. And point out that thanks to our two party system, there are no other options in the US Presidential race.

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u/Proper_Caterpillar22 4d ago

My feeling that his idea of ending the war involves sending many armed forces into Ukraine, to seize it.

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u/palm0 4d ago

He couldn't do that before taking office. So again it's either just another bushit lie or an admission that he is basically Putin's puppet and Putin is extorting the US to elect Trump.

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u/Proper_Caterpillar22 4d ago

My cynic thought was that if trump wins, Putin backs out and Trump sweeps in and gives it to him next year.

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u/biaggio 4d ago

Yes. The scenario was different, and the stakes are certainly very different.

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u/TreebeardsMustache 4d ago

A TV grifter who ought to be ruled ineligible by a straight reading of the law? Who does that describe? Fettermans opponent or Bidens?

Sounds like an exactly similar situation to me

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u/In_Formaldehyde_ 4d ago

No, it's not the same situation. FFS this sub is something else.

Mehmet Oz is closer to a Vivek than he is to a Trump. He has nowhere near the appeal of the latter to the Republican voting base. Fetterman winning against Oz signifies absolutely nothing about the upcoming election.

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u/jaymcbang 4d ago edited 4d ago

And being a Russian asset, Trump is also an “outsider”.

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u/emotions1026 4d ago

The difference is that literally no one liked Dr. Oz while Trump has his own cult. I personally think any conventional Republican who happened to live in PA and didn't make that ridiculous grocery shopping video could have defeated Fetterman.

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

Lol Trump does and says way more stupid hit than Dr Oz on the regular

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u/emotions1026 3d ago

Yes he does, and he gets away with it because as I said in first post he's a cult leader. Dr. Oz's stupid statements actually backfired on him because people don't like him.

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u/PolicyWonka 4d ago

Trump is unique. The shit he says and does doesn’t seem to matter to voters. Dr. Oz said and did shut and it did hurt him in the polls.

Fetterman also has the benefit of age. Fetterman’s medical condition could be recovered from. You can’t wind back the clock on age.

The difference is Fetterman got better, and Biden is going to get worse.

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u/ArenjiTheLootGod 4d ago

A TV grifter who can no longer claim to be an outsider. We know what a Trump presidency will look like and anyone with half a brain knows that there's more at stake than just the presidency. Our court system has already been ruined by unchecked Republican rule, another Trump presidency will cement that for at least a generation.

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u/FailedCriticalSystem 4d ago

Trump doesn’t live in PA

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u/seamus_mc I voted 4d ago

Trump isn’t running for senate either…

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u/5ykes Washington 4d ago

He's also the only reason Biden is the nominee. He was the safe choice

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u/SnowdensOfYesteryear 4d ago

Pretty much. I wouldn’t be voting for Biden if GOP had a sane person running. I’d have voted for Mitt Romney this cycle if he were the candidate for example

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u/Neglectful_Stranger 4d ago

A TV grifter who had the second most votes of any candidate in American History.

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u/Randomperson1362 4d ago

Looking at the most votes in history is a useless stat. The population grows every year, as does the number of eligible voters. It's doesn't guarantee you the most votes, or second most votes, but it makes it more likely.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

Your numbers are off there

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u/Animated_effigy 4d ago

No one cares. Still lost.

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u/pp21 4d ago

??? Weird comment. Dude was just pointing out how razor thin the margin for error is here. To dismiss that is asinine

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

No it’s a pretty dumb metric to go by considering the population of the US is continuously growing.

The more impressive stat is that Trump has never had more than 46% of the country vote for him. That’s the consecutively the worst performance of any President in like the last 200 years.

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u/Professional-Can1385 4d ago

Biden's opponent is a TV grifter and convicted felon.

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u/KillKennyG 4d ago

Who lives in a world of his own imagination, because shittier people keep empowering him

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u/Agent_Scoon 4d ago

He's also a former president that won against a competent Clinton. We can downplay his credentials all we want but after last night he should win again.

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u/TheSavageDonut 4d ago

He was aided by Manafort, Flynn, Stone, and others who colluded with Russia and who Trump pardoned.

He won't have these same people committing crimes on his behalf anymore.

On the Dem side, we had "old man Bernie" being a sore loser and dragging Hilary down.

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u/WhizBangNeato 4d ago

He also forgot to mention that people were concerned about his stroke and that since winning he's literally come out and said that his brain damage allowed him to stop being progressive.

Very cool!

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u/KingGoldark New York 4d ago

Also that the PA GOP ticket that year was led by a MAGA true believer who repelled moderates in droves.

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

Dr Oz wasn’t really even a MAGA true believer, just another TV conman trying to ride MAGA’s coattails.

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u/KingGoldark New York 4d ago

I was referring to Doug Mastriano.

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

Oh gotcha

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u/MaaChiil 4d ago edited 3d ago

The polls also showed Oz winning leading into the actual election…

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u/tlsrandy 4d ago

That makes it seem like a pretty appropriate comparison, no?

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u/supamario132 Pennsylvania 4d ago

Also, forgot to mention that we all knew the reason behind his debate performance was almost certainly temporary

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u/BambooDiamondCannon 4d ago

So was the reason behind Biden’s performance.

https://youtu.be/s5CVZHAjrW8?si=IDSZz7kgFHaTy_iq

2

u/SomeConfusedBiKid California 4d ago

And Fetterman's a grifter too now.

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u/mikebdesign 4d ago

Also it would be surprising if Fetterman is re elected. I voted for him and I’m not proud of it.

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u/CuriousNebula43 4d ago

What do you mean "other options"? PA was thrilled to vote for him, we weren't holding our noses. The dude is a rockstar and should be the future of the Democratic party.

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u/NanoDaMan 4d ago

I voted for him.

But there weren't other options, regardless of whether people were thrilled. Pat Toomey had enough and wanted to return to the private sector to scam more people. If I am not mistaken, a few of the people running had to drop out because of wild scandals. I think the one guy strangled his wife, if I am not mistaken… so like I said, there were not many options, and we went with a guy who had a stroke.

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u/RCP90sKid Oregon 4d ago

So, you are creating a false equivalency with Trump and Fetterman to prove some sort of logic game. Fun. This is how people get themselves tied into knots.

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u/NanoDaMan 4d ago

What's false? I think you are just confused about the topic at hand.

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u/bl3ckm3mba Pennsylvania 4d ago

He seemed like he could be decent but he's just very standard Democrat. That he's so vocally supporting whatever you want to call Israel is most disappointing of all, but he's also just generally been a letdown.

0

u/CuriousNebula43 4d ago

This is what we mean when we say leftists are killing the party with their purity tests binary thinking.

"ProgressivePunch" gives him an A rating with a 95.36% voting record consistent with progressive principles and THAT's not good enough for you? And he's in a swing state! Get out of here.

Can you point out which of these important positions that he has is inconsistent with fundamental Democratic values?

Position Fetterman's Stance
Healthcare Supports Medicare for All, ensuring universal healthcare coverage.
Climate Change Advocates for aggressive action on climate change and clean energy.
Criminal Justice Reform Supports comprehensive criminal justice reform, including ending mass incarceration.
Economic Inequality Focuses on reducing economic inequality, raising the minimum wage.
Immigration Favors humane immigration policies but also supports stronger border security.
LGBTQ+ Rights Strong supporter of LGBTQ+ rights and anti-discrimination protections.
Reproductive Rights Firmly supports women's reproductive rights and access to abortion.
Gun Control Advocates for common-sense gun control measures to reduce gun violence.
Education Supports increased funding for public education and student debt relief.

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u/exelion18120 4d ago

Not supporting a genocidal apartheid state is hardly a purity test.

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u/CuriousNebula43 4d ago

Good thing he doesn't do that.

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u/exelion18120 4d ago

He supports Israel unconditionally.

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u/CuriousNebula43 4d ago

Yea, thank goodness! He's great.

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u/exelion18120 4d ago

Right and because of that he supports an genocidal apartheid state and you seem to as well.

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u/CuriousNebula43 4d ago

No, I'd never support a genocidal apartheid state and neither would Fetterman. That'd be awful!

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u/UnlawfulStupid 4d ago

The only thing progressives hate more than a 100% Nazi is a 99% Progressive.

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u/Mysterious-Wasabi103 4d ago

A lot of people on Reddit are chugging down the faux Progressive media we see online a lot. You know the shit conservative CEOs put out there to shape liberal opinions by pretending to be their allies.

People love being told what to think and you cannot convince me otherwise. Fetterman is now suddenly this "hold your nose" candidate over what? Israel and Palestine? That's not even a domestic issue. Seems like it only benefits conservatives if you ask me.

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u/extraneouspanthers 4d ago

Imagine waving off mass murder as “not a domestic issue”

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u/bl3ckm3mba Pennsylvania 4d ago

This shit is so grim :(

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u/MorallyComplicated 4d ago

you don’t have any viable alternative options here either, treasonous trump or old joe.

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u/TheSavageDonut 4d ago

Trump hand-picked "Doctor Oz" and Herschel Walker -- and they were both equally embarrassing candidates and election losers.

The GOP is still trying to get Herschel Walker to hand over the millions he raised.

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u/NanoDaMan 4d ago

Not sure what Georgia senate race has to do with this, but sure.

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u/Espron 4d ago

His opponent said abortion should be between a woman, her doctor, and local elected officials.

Trump said WAY worse last night.

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u/_BaldyLocks_ 4d ago

I guess he wanted to say that winning elections cures Alzheimer's. Give this man a Nobel prize.

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u/awkwardurinalglance 4d ago

Also, Fuck John Fetterman

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u/Most-Artichoke6184 4d ago

You just described Trump.

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u/NanoDaMan 4d ago

Trump lives in PA and ran for the senate seat? News to me, I didn't see him on the ballot.

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u/ocmaddog 4d ago

He forgot to mention he had a stroke and had a good chance of a recovery. Biden was as young as we will ever see him again last night. Still voting for him, but it's not the same thing.

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u/theumph 4d ago

Also his health issues have an opportunity to improve. Biden is at the end of the road. Completely different scenarios.

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u/Jorge_Santos69 4d ago

Lmaoooo no they do not.