r/FluentInFinance • u/The-Lucky-Investor • 11d ago

“Medicare for All” would save the U.S $5.1 Trillion over 10 years Discussion/ Debate

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/11/30/easy-pay-something-costs-less-new-study-shows-medicare-all-would-save-us-51-trillion
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u/Pickle_ninja 11d ago

In America:

Person with a fever of 99.0F (37.2C): Get back to work.

Person with a fever of 100.0F (37.7C): Stay home take some cough syrup.

Person with a fever of 101.0F (38.3C): Stay home take some cough syrup.

Person with a fever of 102.0F (38.9C): Stay home take some cough syrup.

Person with a fever of 103.0F (39.44C): I'm going to try cooling down with a bath.

Person with a fever of 104.0F (40C): I think I should go to the hospital.

Person coming across a Person convulsing on the ground with a fever of 105.0F (40.55C): "OMG! CALL A $10,000 AMBULANCE!"

In Countries with Universal Health Care:

Person with a fever of 99.0F (37.2C): I'm going to see a doctor.

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u/Secret_Squire1 11d ago

American having lived in Europe and the UK.

No it’s more like having to wait several weeks to be seen by a GP to be told to go home and take Tylenol while resting. I had my foot run over by a car and was told the same thing.

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u/Cadet_Stimpy 11d ago

It takes months to get appointments in the US now too. It’s not a socialized healthcare issue, it’s a medical professional shortage issue.

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u/TrustMental6895 11d ago

There's so many new grads that can't get residencies. This is a manufactured issue or the hospital cutting staff to save money.

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u/dskimilwaukee 11d ago

RN here. Hospital cutting staff or running thin to save money. They sure as shit don't pay nurses enough either. All about maximizing profits for the c suites.

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u/GrandmaCheese1 11d ago

Another issue that gets overlooked is the pay for instructors.

In my state, all Nursing instructors (except for clinical instructors) are required to have their Masters with a focus in education, but most positions are about the same pay as a bedside nurse.

Why am I going to go into debt to pursue a significantly higher degree to get paid the same amount of money?

You need more instructors to allow for more potential nurses to hit the workforce.

I’ve always considered education further into my future but can’t justify going back for my BSN, then also my MSN, to make the same amount of money I am now.

If salaries start improving for educators or the requirements start to lower due to “The Nursing Shortage” that we’re all expecting, then I’ll probably get into when I get older.

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u/MizStazya 11d ago

In larger universities, nursing professors are generally paid less than other science degree programs.

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u/Loud-East1969 9d ago

I think that’s the norm for most professions. College professor isn’t exactly a lucrative career nowadays.

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u/vonkeswick 11d ago

maximizing profits for the c suites

well yeah, the CEO definitely earned his yacht and really needs to redo the wood trim in the yacht's kitchen /s

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u/InformalPenguinz 10d ago

redo the wood trim in the yacht's kitchen

I've done general contracting for a few billionaires and millionaires with my dad. Common theme is waste. Oh that imported marble had one imperceptible flaw that will go on the underside? Better just throw that one away... no don't return it, sell it, give it away... throw it in the pit. I've worked on many ranches that have a pit to just throw shit like that away.

New billionaire bought the property? Hmm, they don't love the sink, so we better redo the ENTIRE KITCHEN to match this $15000 randomly imported sink from Italy. Can we salvage the wood? Appliances? Etc?.. nope into the pit.

Ugh.

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u/MizStazya 11d ago

It's because you don't pay for your nursing care. It's rolled into the room charge, so hospitals are highly incentivized to use as little nursing as possible. A 20-year-old who had an appendectomy, gets to the bathroom by themselves, and needs a couple doses of antibiotics and pain meds pays the exact same amount for nursing care as an 80-year-old 400 pound incontinent dementia patient with 15 medications, who needs turning every 2 hours, frequent bed changes, 1:1 feeding, multiple dressing changes, etc. If we charged for nursing care based on the actual amount of nursing time needed and used, they might not be so quick to run us bare bones.

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u/IndependenceIcy2251 11d ago

I’d say that’s true of every industry these days, from fast food places having like 2 people to stores having one person trying to run a register and stock shelves.

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u/AggravatingSun5433 11d ago

When I broke my hand in February I made a same day appointment the next morning for 10am at urgent care. The appointment cost $80.

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u/whorl- 11d ago

Obviously, these things are location dependent. The availability of care differs by state and geographic classification (urban, rural) and also whether or not the care facility takes your insurance.

I’m guessing you’re insured and that’s why it cost $80? Because when I’ve been uninsured it was like $300 just to be admitted and speak with someone.

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u/Pats_Bunny 11d ago

I'm in San Diego, and have had a mostly pleasant experience navigating the medical system for my cancer over the last few years. I am on some FB groups for similar cancers, and that is not the case around the country. Very location dependent. Also I have Kaiser (good tier at that through my work), and Kaiser SoCal are on their shit. Not every insurance provider is streamlined and in-house like mine.

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u/SippieCup 11d ago

I had a ct scan of my liver a few weeks ago, they found a 30mm growth on it that might be cancer.

The soonest appointment for an mri to find out is 3 hours away and in September and that was after me bitching that I needed something not in November. I live an hour outside of NYC, not in the boonies.

There are a couple places that have earlier appointments, but I can’t really pay the out of network copay.

So now I might just have cancer and not getting it treated for 4 months, which is fun to think about at night, because it would cost a crap ton to get something earlier.

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u/Aromatic_Location 10d ago

Not sure I believe this, since a quick search shows that wait times are typically 3 to 5 days in NYC, but if it's true then go somewhere else. In the Dallas area you can get an MRI within an hour of a doctor ordering one.

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u/Examiner7 10d ago

For real, I've never had a problem getting MRIs almost immediately (Oregon).

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u/cezann3 11d ago

because fractures are time sensitive and are completely different type of doctor

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u/AggravatingDisk7237 11d ago

I just got seen same day by my GP. They do walk-ins 8-6 everyday.

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u/reptilesocks 11d ago

Good for you. In NYC my past two PCPs had a month-long waitlist.

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u/etharper 11d ago

The clinic I go to has walk-ins but you're not going to see a doctor, you'll see a nurse practitioner. In fact i haven't seen my doctor for months, all I ever see are physician assistants because my doctor is booked out months ahead.

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u/AggravatingDisk7237 11d ago edited 11d ago

It’s a clinic homie. You really need to see a licensed doctor? If you have something that extreme go to an urgent care or the ER dude.

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u/Bucket_of_Spaghetti 11d ago

Yep - NPs are fully qualified to treat majority of patients that come in to a walk in clinic

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u/Kat9935 11d ago

My current one I can get in the same day for everything except like annual physicals and that type of stuff where you schedule it a month in advance. My old Dr you couldn't walk in but you could call and if it was something pressing they would typically get you in as they left several slots a day for someone who had a serious issue that couldn't wait a day or two.

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u/countdonn 11d ago

It's so difficult and takes so long to see a doctor these days in the US, let alone a specialist even if it's an emergency. If you don't live near a major city then just forget about it. That's the boogeyman I was always warned about with universal healthcare.

It's all horribly discouraging, try calling your health insurance customer support, which puts any public bureaucracy to shame and getting a straight answer about anything if you want to cry in frustration.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

I believe it involves many factors, but the main two being the type of insurance you have and the location you’re in. I have exceptionally good health insurance and live in a top 25 populated city in the US. I can get an appointment with my primary or someone else in clinic almost guaranteed same week. My mental health provider I see every month and have never had an issue with scheduling. Just yesterday my daughter had a sick visit with the pediatrician, saw a pediatric surgeon, and had an ultrasound done before lunch time - none of it scheduled before hand and my total cost was $45. Her non-emergent surgery is scheduled for Monday and I’ve already received a cost estimate for surgery + 3 day recovery for $250. I’m not ignorant though, I completely understand I fall into the 0.1% of Americans who have trouble free access to healthcare. My point here is that it IS possible for America to not be so fucked with healthcare. I just wish all insurance companies made it this easy for everyone.

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u/hidazfx 11d ago

Made a doctor's appointment with McLaren in Michigan back in February. Got cancelled a few days before in April because the doctor went on vacation. Had to have it rescheduled for July. I swear if it was serious I could've fucking died by now...

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u/RelationPatient4136 11d ago

That’s simply not true. Walk into any UC and you’ll be seen instantly

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u/Cadet_Stimpy 11d ago

The comment I was responding to was about seeing GPs or PCMs, not urgent cares.

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u/mannsion 11d ago

It depends on many things.

When I needed an MRI, I was in there two days later getting an MRI. When I needed an endoscopy the earliest they could get me in was 6 weeks away. But I had the choice of getting an endoscopy 2 hours away the next day and chose to wait instead.

When I crashed my ATV and was carted into the ER they dropped everything and took me back immediately.

Ime, when I wait it's because there's no harm in waiting, it's not an emergency, and if it's an emergency there's 0 wait.

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u/Cadet_Stimpy 11d ago

Seeing my PCM or specialists is what has taken weeks to months for me. If I accidentally saw off my arm while I’m doing some wood working, I’m sure I can get shuttled by ambulance to a hospital and be seen relatively quickly.

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u/mannsion 11d ago

I think that really comes down to availability. My primary care physician generally can slot me in within days of a phone call, but as he get's more popular and books up it'll take longer, he's super young and great so I imagine it won't be long before I'm waiting, but yeah.

This is why I employ other services. If I have a physical or have questions etc yeah I'll schedule with my Primary Care physician. But if I think I have pneumonia I'll just walk into Urgent Care.

And with urgent care I use the new online scheduling system and text messages, so I can checkin from home and just head there when the wait timer get's to about 30 mins estimated.

My insurance covers me anywhere I want to go.

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u/RobHazard 10d ago

Yup can confirm. Been waiting since December to see a doc to get cleared for anesthesia to get my wisdom teeth out. Think I'll finally get in in August? Meanwhile I prepaid the dentist and they're trying to keep the money without surgery because "it's been so long"

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u/0OOOOOOOOO0 11d ago

One that’s by design in the U.S. They limit the number of residency slots to keep salaries inflated.

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u/robbzilla 11d ago

It took my wife a week last month when she made an appointment.

Last year, we were able to get an appointment for our daughter within the day.

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u/uChoice_Reindeer7903 11d ago

No it doesn’t. If you want to see a specific doctor, yes, it could take a while but if you don’t care and just want to be seen and are willing to drive 20-30 minutes, you can almost always be seen the same day.

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u/2lame2shame 11d ago

Shortage created by not hiring.

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u/r2k398 11d ago

I can get a same day appointment most of the time. At worst, the next business day. If it was a little serious, I would go to an urgent care. If it was really serious, I would go to an ER. Both of those are same day.

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u/The-Old-American 11d ago

Which would be GREATLY exacerbated by introducing about 25 million more people into the system. This my only real argument against some sort of national healthcare system. And it's not really "against" just a "we need a reality check before we just run headlong into it".

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u/SeanHaz 11d ago

Medical licensing is a government protected monopoly.

Its not socialised medicine but there is heavy government involvement in healthcare.

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u/Netflixandmeal 11d ago

That’s not true really. You can go to an urgent care or er and get seen right then if your foot was ran over by a car.

For something non emergency? Sure an appointment may be a few weeks out.

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u/25nameslater 11d ago

No it doesn’t? It takes usually 2 days for a regular dr if you’re ill, immediate care centers 30 minutes. If you need a specialist usually 2 weeks is standard.

If your regular doctor takes more than 3 days choose a different doctor or go to immediate care.

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u/larryp1087 11d ago

With a primary doctor sure. But I have never had to wait to see a doctor for a sickness. Urgent care will see you without an appointment.

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u/strait_lines 11d ago

Maybe where you are, I can see a dr the same day.

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u/wildcherryphoenix 11d ago

I get same day specialists all the time. I'm in a big city with a few large hospital networks, but I have rarely had to wait more than a month even for non-standard tests.

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u/Mack_Blallet 11d ago

Must be unique to your region. Walk in clinics are everywhere here. An abrupt fever doesn’t usually constitute some sort of specialist that operates on appointments though,

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u/njackson2020 11d ago

Where at? I was having some knee pain and literally saw my PCP the next day. Are you referring to new patients for regular checkups?

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u/AdventurousCourt4452 11d ago

Not true. Maybe for a physical. If I call with a new issue I’m seen within the week sometimes next day

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u/Teex22 10d ago

Somewhat because they're all disappearing off to Australia because they get treated right down there.

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u/Kindly_Formal_2604 10d ago

I set an appointment today with a specialist to do a heart and lung scan in 5 days. Anecdotal, but I've never in my life scheduled a doctors appointment out more than a week or two and I go 6 or so times a year for medication monitoring stuff.

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u/brycebgood 11d ago

"like having to wait saveral weeks to be seen by a GP"

And how long does it take in the US before you get in and are charged $400 for the 7 minute appointment?

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u/Pigletpowpow 11d ago

Yeah… had a seizure and was told I needed to get an EEG done, immediately. Called to schedule after the first visit that took 3 weeks to get to after the seizure, to be scheduled out 2 months to be able to get my test done.

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u/PFunk224 10d ago

I was diagnosed with stage 2 cancer in my kidney in January 2018. They told me that the tumor was too large to make an attempt to save the kidney, and that it would need to be removed immediately because I was at extreme risk of the cancer spreading to my lymph nodes and other organs at that point. I was made to wait an entire month for surgery that was considered immediately necessary. During that month of waiting, I had to have two separate emergency procedures to have a 400cc blood clot removed from my bladder, because my kidney was so malfunctioned from the tumor that it was regularly sending blood to my bladder, which would then coagulate and completely block my urethra.

Yeah, Americans are made to wait for medical procedures, too. Even immediately necessary ones.

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u/bloodphoenix90 11d ago

$400?

Yall not have 15 dollar copays?

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u/Notcreative-number 11d ago

More and more employers are pushing the high deductible plans. There's no copays, you just pay for everything non-preventative up to an annual max.

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u/bloodphoenix90 11d ago

ah, i guess i just had decent insurance last time. $2000 out of pocket max and low copays for visits to your primary. Specialists will cost a higher bill of course.

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u/bailtail 11d ago

Yep. Insurance doesn’t pay shit for me until I’ve spent $2800.

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u/icySquirrel1 11d ago

Haha. Yall not have deductibles

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u/countdonn 11d ago

Depends on the service and deductibles. One time I went to a doctor to get me ears cleaned instead of using q-tips like everyone says you should and was surprised by the $500 bill. Last time I ever did that.

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u/brycebgood 11d ago

Nope. Fully out of pocket till I hit my annual max. Great fucking system we got.

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u/aka-j 11d ago

After I meet my $3500 deductible and $3500 co-insurance, it's free!

cries

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u/OldStDick 11d ago

Right? I called my gastro in January and my appointment was set for June and then pushed to August.

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u/countdonn 11d ago

Holy shit appointments with doctors in the US are quick. At the local private equity medical factory near me you don't even get 5 minutes.

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u/trogon 11d ago

Yeah, I had to make an appointment just to get some stitches removed and my health portal told me it was going to be a month.

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u/r2k398 11d ago

Same day in the ER. $100 copay.

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u/Cool1Mach 11d ago

What? Do you not have walk in clinics where you live?

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u/rpnye523 10d ago

In my most recent experience the next appointment for a dermatologist covered by my insurance was only 4 months away!

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u/limukala 9d ago

It was less than 24 hours between cancer diagnosis and appointment with my oncologist, and 5 days later I was in surgery.

And I only paid $3200 total OOP for $500k in treatment.

So I guess the answer is...it depends.

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u/Lockhead216 11d ago

Stop this fake narrative that there isn’t wait times in the US.

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u/OutrageousHunter4138 11d ago edited 10d ago

Seriously, I mean mileage may vary from region to region, but I’ve lived in PA, TX, and OH and it’s always months not weeks to get seen most places.

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u/Cool1Mach 11d ago

I can go and walk in to a clinic and not wait more than 30 minutes right now. I can film it for you if you want

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u/Lockhead216 11d ago

Okay, get an appointment for a specialist. Tell me how long you’ll wait

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u/HandMadeMarmelade 10d ago

I live in a decent-size city and only extreme luck will get you a same day visit with your PCP.

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u/Either-Percentage-78 11d ago

Interesting.  I saw the DR twice in 8 months in Ireland as an American and paid 10 bucks for an antibiotic the first time and the second time needed a tetanus shot and I don't even remember if I paid anything at all.  I got in same day both times.  Much like everything, it's probably about where you are.

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u/Temporary-Moments 11d ago

I’m an American living in America, I had my foot ran over by a car and I just took some Tylenol bc, come on, like I was really going to go to a doctor. An ER would charge something outrageous and most GP’s aren’t taking new patients or it takes weeks to get in. But not having insurance does help sometimes bc we pay cash the day of and doctors like that. Same when I broke my finger. It wasn’t life threatening so what’s the point.

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u/Nice-Cow-8827 10d ago

Are you really american if you prefer to a PCP as a "GP"? Nobody calls their primary care doc a GP, isn't that a british thing?

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u/Hashashiyyin 10d ago

It's likely regional, where I'm at people call them GPs or Family Doctors

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u/smcl2k 11d ago

I had my foot run over by a car and was told the same thing.

You went to A&E and were sent home without receiving any kind of examination?

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u/Quality_Qontrol 11d ago

American here, we also wait weeks for a GP appointment.

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u/finalattack123 11d ago

Several weeks to see a GP? I’m usually able to see one in a few days.

Where do you live?

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u/Notcreative-number 11d ago

Yep. I'm in Ohio and all my medical appointments are me telling a doctor "I made this appointment 2 or 3 months ago then whatever it was went away on its own"

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u/Roque14 11d ago

American living in America here. In America we have to wait several weeks to be seen by a GP to be told to go home and take Tylenol while resting, and we have to pay out the nose for the privilege.

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u/NotForPlural 11d ago

Bruh I was trampled by a horse and told to go home and rest. Also in America. And that MRI I need for a complex surgical complication? Two months out at minimum. Same with most specialties. 

Long wait times are not unique to universal healthcare countries. But they are often made worse by privatized healthcare.

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u/Large-Measurement776 11d ago

No kidding. We got the same wait time here in Canada. Even then, they just can't wait to get you out of their office. I've been dealing with a fucked up ribcage for the past 4 years and they just feed me pain killers and judge me later as a fucking addict. Ffs I just want to know what's wrong with me. I can't even look at my own goddamn x-rays bc of some bullshit PHIA.

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u/ProtoplanetaryNebula 8d ago

Kind of, apart from nobody in Europe knows it as paracetamol rather than Tylenol.

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u/LookAlderaanPlaces 11d ago

These two things are different variables. Long wait times are not because of who is paying for the health care (government (universal single payer system) vs having insurance involved). It’s due to shortages or manufactured shortages of medical workers. In the US, it would still take weeks or months for many services.

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u/irvmuller 11d ago

No. Not true. Stop it.

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u/bailtail 11d ago

Well it’s a 5-month wait to see my GP right now, so…

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u/Jiitunary 11d ago edited 11d ago

I live in Japan and I'm about to walk in to a dermatologist office with no appointment and get my skin checked for cancer today. It's not a public health care thing

EDIT Coming back with an update. I'm Cancer free and the whole thing was less than 2 hours. It's cost around 8 dollars

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u/StinkyKavat 11d ago

like having to wait several weeks to be seen by a GP

and where exactly did you pull that out of? your ass? i call my gp right now and I can see him in 3 business days max. and judging by the other comments, this seems to be the universal european experience. so no, even wait time is ten times worse in the usa. you have literally nothing going for you.

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u/Constant-Put-6986 11d ago

I could schedule an appointment right now with a GP or any number of specialists here in France and be seen next week.

A few months ago I had bad anxiety attacks and I thought my heart was fucked, 2 days later I was in with a cardiologist, he asked me to get an MRI, the MRI was a week later. Good news my heart is fine and it was anxiety and stress

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u/Ya_like_dags 11d ago

In the US, you wait weeks to see a GP to be told to go home and take Tylenol, but then you're out a week's pay.

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u/SleepyHobo 11d ago

All one has to do is look north to our brothers and sisters in Canada to see how well universal healthcare would work out in the US. Hint: A disaster and failure.

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u/fzkiz 11d ago

Depending on which country you were in but in most you can go without an appointment and they have to treat you the same day … Germany for example

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u/Nolenag 11d ago

American having lived in Europe and the UK.

I'm not even sure what the fuck this sentence means, as a Dutch person.

But in the Netherlands you can get appointments relatively quickly, and can just call in sick and stay at home if you're not feeling well.

Employers aren't allowed to ask what's wrong, just say that you're unwell and stay home.

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u/Boneraventura 11d ago

I had no problem seeing a doctor in norway for a fever around 39°C

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u/ChicagoAuPair 11d ago

I haven’t been able to book a doctors appointment in less than 1-2 months advance in America at any time in the past 15-20 years. What GP do you have who is seeing you same day?

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u/sirjonsnow 11d ago

I have no idea which side of the atlantic you're talking about, since there are people in the US who can't even get a GP, let alone an appointment with one.

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u/thisalsomightbemine 11d ago

You can find these delays in US easily.

Last year I had an active respiratory infection. Doctor wanted to refer me, and the next available appointment was 2 months out

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u/No_Tea1868 11d ago

Lived in Japan with their national health plan.

Never had to wait more than 30 minutes when walking in. Often went in for minor things and was never turned away.

Meanwhile in the US, had an emergency and needed surgery. Was told to book an appointment for a consultation one month away. Couldn't schedule the surgery for three months.

Y'all act like the system in the US doesn't make you wait a ridiculously long time for urgent issues anyways...

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u/strait_lines 11d ago

This is what I’ve heard from my colleagues in the uk and in Canada

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u/Logical_Response_Bot 11d ago

"Having lived some places on a continent"

Not really a strong example

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u/dumpyredditacct 11d ago

You're missing the part where you still got to visit the doctor without having insurance, and the cost to you was likely minuscule, if anything. Your SINGLE experience is defined by the fact that what you did is not doable in America without insurance or a lot of expendable money, yet you focus on the tertiary shit that is effectively just case-by-case differences in quality/timeliness.

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u/Wavey-Potatey 11d ago

I have family in Europe and our wait times are about as shit as theirs, but the difference is their healthcare won't financially cripple them. I had a gastro issue and the doctor I was referred to couldn't see me until months later.

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u/Johnny_B_GOODBOI 11d ago

Only several weeks? It takes me months to see my GP in the US. God damn, gimme that European healthcare already!

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u/Doggoneshame 11d ago

Always, always, always, whenever a discussion on Reddit has to do with the shitty state or over costly amount healthcare costs in the U.S. some know-it-all has to add their asinine two cent opinion that healthcare is worse every else. I guess if you could wait two weeks only to be told all you needed was to take a Tylenol than just maybe you didn’t need to seek any medical help after all.

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u/Unhappy-Fox1017 11d ago

I already have to book my appointments a couple of months in advance. My doctor is insanely busy. And anytime I’ve gone to the ER, it’s hours and hours of waiting if anyone else is more seriously injured. So wait times isn’t really a pro anymore. I’m uninsured bc my employer doesn’t offer it. So Medicare for all would really help me out.

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u/Dunwitcheq 10d ago

Whenever I feel sick enough to need a doctor here in Czechia, I call them and the nurse schedules me an appointment in like two hours or something like that.

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u/ridukosennin 10d ago

Well anything below 100.4 F technically is not a fever and you are wasting time and resources going to a doctor for that.

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u/28jb11 10d ago

I'm Australian. A couple months ago I tore my meniscus playing soccer. I went to the hospital and saw someone within 20 minutes. They immediately booked me in for an xray, mri and consultations with orthopaedic surgeons and physiotherapists. I was assigned 3 months of weekly physio appointments. This entire thing will cost me $0. The care has been of the highest level and my wait times have been very reasonable.

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u/notboky 10d ago

Sure, but if it was urgent you could just go to the ER and be seen for free.

In New Zealand I can usually get a GP appointment within 24 hours.

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u/hatrickstar 10d ago

That's because a truly single payer system isn't really going to work.

There has to be a way for those with money to not clog up the system the rest use, so yeah they need to be able to buy their own care while also using the power of law to make sure there are enough doctors in the normal system that there are short wait times.

A single payer system is too easy to corrupt and far too easy to buy, so just weed out the corrupting influence.

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u/Redandwhite_91 10d ago

That’s only if you’re a selective little bitch that wants to see only a particular doctor and one that can speak your language.

If you lived in a country and made an effort to learn the local language, you could see a doctor within an hour.

Sadly, Americans are too proud generally to learn another culture and then bitch and moan when the world doesn’t cater to them.

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u/Alexander459FTW 10d ago

I call bullshit. Whenever someone had an emergency in our family we were able to go to the hospital immediately and be treated the same day. Especially if you were a kid, within 6 hours you would have a preliminary treatment.

Even when needed to do certain exams you could book a date within a reasonable timeframe. The only times that date was after months was when it really was not an emergency and there were really no vacancies in the area around you.

With any emergency you could go to the ER, get looked at and start immediate treatment.

You broke your arm/leg? The doctor would take a quick look to determine if it needs some immediate operation. Then he would send you for x-rays. Then depending on the situation he would treat you. Aligning the broken bone and setting a cast.

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u/CYOA_With_Hitler 10d ago

I guess people should come to Australia then, can see gp in roughly 30 minutes at any time of day?

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u/ass-holes 10d ago

Yeah that's not the case here. If I have to go to a doctor for a fever, next day. If I have to go to the hospital, my doctor makes a call and it's within a week. Non urgent surgery, a month. I really have no idea where there statements come from. Belgium by the way

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u/flawstreak 10d ago

What country were you in? I got seen immediately in Sweden

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u/f0gax 10d ago

No it’s more like having to wait several weeks

People say this as if US doctors aren't scheduling out weeks or months as well.

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u/EvilSuov 10d ago

Where in Europe is this? I have been with several GP's here in the Netherlands (because I moved several times) and for everyone of them if I had something urgent I could visit the same day. Even if its not urgent I always get an appointment within a week time. Both true in 'full' GP's in the center of Randstad cities and in the more rural east.

When its needed you get immediate care. Even had to go to a night dentist once because of a tooth suddenly starting to ache extremely badly after dinner, and this was while I was still living in the more rural east, called my dentist at 20:30 which then pointed me to a night dentist and was being treated not 2 hours later.

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u/AgentG91 10d ago

Get the fuck out of here. I lived in the UK for 5 years and if I’m sick, I took a bus to the doctors office and had to wait 45 minutes to an hour to get in with no appointment at all. When I broke my toe, I went to the ER and got glued/taped up and set on my merry way with nothing more than a thank you and 2 hours of my day spent.

Quit supporting this stupid fucking meme

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u/Raisoshi 10d ago

In Brazil at least it's a few hours maybe. There are 24/7 emergency open door healthcare places, if it's too crowded it'll take a while but that while is measured in hours, not weeks.

For a fever at least that's how it is, if it's more complex and you need to be admitted into the infirmary it can take longer. If it's a doctor appointment that is not an emergency yeah it can take weeks, but then again it's not an emergency and it's completely free, if you're willing and able to go private for a faster appointment you can, it's up to you.

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u/Dragnil 10d ago

Let's look at the data: https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/242e3c8c-en/1/3/2/index.html?itemId=/content/publication/242e3c8c-en&_csp_=e90031be7ce6b03025f09a0c506286b0&itemIGO=oecd&itemContentType=book

76-88% (depending on the country) of surveyed EU residents responded that they were always able to receive same day treatment from their GP when polled in 2016.

Only 74% of U.S. residents responded the same. The only polled country that performed worse was Canada (67%).

I'm calling absolute B.S. that you waited weeks to see a G.P. anywhere in Western Europe.

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u/Zamaiel 10d ago

In general, Western Europe is faster than the US. Where did you live?

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u/gizamo 10d ago

American having lived in the UK, Germany, and France.

No. It's more like having scheduled checkups, and on rare occasion going to a clinic and being seen within a few hours, which is not too different from the US.

The difference is that their medical systems are vastly, vastly less expensive both for the individual and for the government.

Your foot example is a flat out lie. Emergencies are also treated quickly in the UK and EU. Pretending that is different or delayed or that severity is ignored is utter bullshit.

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u/soooogullible 10d ago

10 months for a surgery I need to be able to work and walk. America. We gotta stop parroting talking points that are anti working class.

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u/DualActiveBridgeLLC 10d ago

Uhh that was exactly my experience in Texas multiple times. Tried to get GP appointment, had to wait a week, large bill that I had to fight the insurance over.

Now I live in Canada. Let's see my healthcare inceidents were (1) wife had appendicitis and stayed in the hospital 5 days (2) Son had a mental health crisis and stayed in a psychward for 1 day (3) daughter had intestinal infection, stayed in the hospital for 4 days. Total cost, $0. Effective tax rate, identical to Texas. Oh and my son's medication is $25/month where in teh US with insurance it would have been $300/month

It's a scam everyone. Universal healthcare at the point of service is amazing and cheap. The fear is entirely based on healthcare companies wanting to profit.

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u/OnyxGow 10d ago

No where in the world u get sent home for same day checkups Not even Irans like that

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u/Ok_Dig_9959 10d ago

This is a more modern problem in the UK since they started allowing some privatization, and certain public officials started pushing the idea of "adopting the American model".

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u/DanM8577 11d ago

A temperature of 99.0F is not a fever. It is well within the average of normal body temperature. An elevated temperature is not considered a fever until it reaches 100.4F. If everyone with universal care went to a doctor at 99.0F it would bankrupt and clog the system very quickly.

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u/IbegTWOdiffer 11d ago

They don't go to the doctor's office, they go to the ER because they can't find a GP.

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u/akmvb21 11d ago

And then you can quickly kiss that $5 trillion (and more) goodbye

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u/Johnny_B_GOODBOI 11d ago

You are ignoring the point because some minor details are slightly incorrect. Way to reddit, keep it up!

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u/EnvironmentalMix421 11d ago

? And the doctor is supposed to tell you go back home and drink water and take Tylenol. What else are you supposed to do when you get a cold.

My copay is $10 and med cost $5 and I don’t go to the doctor for cold. If your doctor is prescribing antibiotics for common cold then you should report that doctor right away lol

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u/TaftIsUnderrated 11d ago

Does everyone in Canada and the UK really go to the hospital when they have a fever of 99F? What about when they get a splinter, mild ankle sprain, or runny nose?

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u/IbegTWOdiffer 11d ago

ER. Obviously.

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u/flawstreak 10d ago edited 10d ago

Do you? If the answer is no then you can logically extrapolate that most people don’t choose to overuse health care. It’s got like diminishing marginal returns on wasting time for a splinter. It’s not what you’d consider a normal good, ya know?

I realize the example is kinda bogus, but I get what they’re putting down. If insurance companies can lower costs by having a larger pool then why can’t that apply to an entire population?

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u/Johnny_B_GOODBOI 11d ago

Runny nose? Brain surgeon on speed dial. Duh.

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u/SpeaksSouthern 11d ago

What if you just were playing in the snow and you immediately took your temperature after and it was 99F? I mean come on!

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u/Initiatedspoon 10d ago

No, they obviously do not. A temperature of 37.2⁰c or 99F is the very extreme edge of normal.

Even at 38⁰c you wouldn't, you would take paracetamol and take it easy. Maybe you would once it hit 39⁰c or so

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u/[deleted] 10d ago edited 10d ago

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u/Buxux 10d ago

Unless your old or have other medical conditions no one would bother trying to go for that.

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u/FoxxyPantz 11d ago

My favorite counter argument I've heard is "people will just go to the doctor for anything!"

Which 1: have you been to a doctor's office? It sucks and is boring.

2: fucking good, id rather have people go for minor issues and live better lives

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u/ZeroCleah 11d ago

I have 3 or 4 issues I'm ignoring right now because I don't want to be sucked dry financially

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u/xThe_Maestro 11d ago

In cartoon reddit America maybe. In real life America routine doctor visits are covered if you're one of the rare 95% of Americans with health insurance coverage.

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u/SnooMarzipans436 11d ago

The other 5% of Americans:

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u/Forshea 11d ago

95% of Americans with health insurance coverage.

Thanks, Obama!

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u/k3nnyd 10d ago

I wonder how many of the 95% have a deductible over like $5000-8000. Even single patient insurance can be that high. I am a healthy person who hasn't even needed to spend anywhere near that amount on total medical care in more than a decade.

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u/butthole_surferr 10d ago

You realize that 5% is FIFTEEN MILLION PEOPLE, right? Also, 95% have health insurance but there's no fucking way most of those people have FUNCTIONAL insurance. At least half of those plans are near-worthless and have deductibles so high the policy holder couldn't afford most treatment anyway. Not to mention that if you're insured and need emergency treatment or surgery you're probably getting billed for out of network care they elected for while you were unconscious.

I happen to have public insurance in my state. It's fucking AWESOME. My daily medicine is free, my hospital bills after my car accident were free, I've NEVER waited more than a month for anything, and I never have to worry about getting hit with out of network charges. My only complaint is that they frequently grumble and try to dodge refilling my prescriptions for no clear reason, but whenever that happens I make 2 or 3 unpleasant phone calls and then go pick up my fucking prescription for free.

It ain't perfect but it sure beats medical bankruptcy, and if it works at scale where I live it can work at scale anywhere.

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u/aaron1860 11d ago

I get your point but please don’t go to the doctor just for an isolated low grade fever (fyi fever is 100.4 and above). Stay home and take a fever reducer is the correct answer. No need to come into a doctors office/ER and get vulnerable people sick.

-a physician

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u/ucsdstaff 10d ago

Yeah, the NHS tells people to stay at home unless:

  • the fever doesn't get better after 5 days
  • you have other symptoms

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/fever-in-children/

You'd get told off if you went to doctor or casualty with a low grade fever.

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u/AggravatingDisk7237 11d ago

And then by the time they see one their fever is gone lol.

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u/Lockhead216 11d ago

99 isn’t a fever.

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u/One_Lung_G 11d ago

Who the hell is seeing a doctor for 99* fever. Better question what doctor is going to allow such stupid visits

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u/DruidRRT 11d ago

You'd be surprised what people come to my ED for.

Mild fevers, medication refills, mild headaches...etc. it's almost always older people. 99% of them get a dose of some OTC med and get discharged.

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u/akablacktherapper 11d ago

Are people really this ignorant about America, lol?

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u/Chemical_Pickle5004 11d ago

Going to the doctor's office every time you have a 99F temperature is a huge waste of resources.

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u/ka1ri 11d ago

Healthcare guy here. They still come in with 99* temps thinking they have a fever (they dont)

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u/mrmo24 11d ago

Only compounded by the fact that no one teaches this concept in America and people don’t know when to not come to work or seek medical treatment and screw if up constantly

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u/IbegTWOdiffer 11d ago

You forgot person with the fever is going to the ER because they dont have a family doctor, they are not going to run any diagnostic tests to see if it is something more serious, and they are going to still be in the waiting room 4 days when they recover. All while paying significantly more taxes.

At least in Canada, you have the option of letting the government kill you, I mean you have to get on a waiting list to die, but your number will eventually come up.

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u/williammunnyjr 11d ago

Pretty damn accurate. Had to give my wife a bath last week when her temp soared to 103.4.

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u/bigfudge_drshokkka 11d ago

People go to the doctor for a 99F temp? That seems like someone just working out or a little angry.

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u/Pickle_ninja 11d ago

True... I should've added a sore throat or something as well. My point still stands, people in the U.S. delay treatment because of the cost of medical bills.

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u/jershdahersh 11d ago

When i had Covid i ahd a temperature of 105.4 i had to take an icebath to cool down because i had no insurance and no money

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u/Cancer_Ridden_Lung 11d ago

No one is going to the doctor for a 99f fever buddy.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

It's person with a fever <105F: get back to work.

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u/SiscoSquared 11d ago

Replace "stay home and take drugs" with "go to work sick..." and then your spot on.

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u/FarRightBerniSanders 11d ago

In countries with Universal Health Care: A medical professional might be able to see you in a week. If you have private insurance, you can go see a doctor immediately.

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u/BallsAreYum 11d ago

99F is not a fever at all. And even with just having a mild fever of like 101F there’s no reason to go see a doctor. They’re just going to tell you to rest in bed, drink plenty of water, and take over the counter medication.

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u/BallsAreYum 11d ago

99F is not a fever at all. And even with just having a mild fever of like 101F there’s no reason to go see a doctor. They’re just going to tell you to rest in bed, drink plenty of water, and take over the counter medication.

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u/do-the-point 11d ago

Imagine being able to see your gp within 2 months for a minor fever in canada ahahahahahahahH

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u/larryp1087 11d ago

If you go to the doctor for 99.0°f temp you are a literal idiot and why doctors and hospitals are overwhelmed. That is not a fever. Anyone with a brain can tell you that a temp .4°f above the average normal temp is not a fever. Some people actually have a normal temp slightly above 99°f.

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u/Vyse14 11d ago

Everyone upset about the example not being the best.. hopefully still gets the point..

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u/strait_lines 11d ago

… then wait… maybe all day, or longer

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u/Alternative_Ask364 11d ago

In Canada:

Person with a fever of 99.0F (37.2C): I'm going to see a doctor.

Doctor (6 months later): "Have you tried killing yourself?"

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u/Dr_Worm88 11d ago

Just to be pedantic but typically it’s not a fever until 100.4F (38c).

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u/cybercuzco 11d ago

Lol if you think the person isn’t going to work until they are 105.

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u/Dr-McLuvin 11d ago

Just FYI no one with a temp of 99.0 F should be seeing a doctor. That’s within the normal range.

In medicine we don’t consider it a fever until it’s 100.7F

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u/MartnSilenus 10d ago

I tried to convince a Republican the other day and he insisted nobody should have to pay for anyone else’s health care and since he’s healthy he shouldn’t have to pay more. We’re doomed

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u/PopOdd2977 10d ago

You can have 2 out of 3: Quality, affordability, or ease of access.

If it's cheap and quality, then you'll have a hard time accessing it. If everyone is visiting the doctor with a very mild fever, then what do you think wait times will be?

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u/sabreR7 10d ago

This is so far removed from reality it’s absurd.

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u/Old_Height_8351 10d ago

I think your point here speaks more to the culture of being tough than to the healthcare system not being good or being expensive

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u/KeptinGL6 10d ago

Why would you take cough syrup for a fever?

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u/blahyaddayadda24 9d ago

Nah in Canada we have to wait until step 2 or 3 now.

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u/9lolo3 7d ago

No truer words have been spoken…

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u/RecoverFlat1054 7d ago

Clearly you’ve never been a victim of universal healthcare lmao. Go to a doctor in the same week? Do you know how many people in Canada don’t even have a doctor they can go see?

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u/JellyfishQuiet7944 7d ago

Why would you waste a visit on that? They're gonna send you home with Tylenol.