r/FluentInFinance • u/The-Lucky-Investor • 11d ago

“Medicare for All” would save the U.S $5.1 Trillion over 10 years Discussion/ Debate

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/11/30/easy-pay-something-costs-less-new-study-shows-medicare-all-would-save-us-51-trillion
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u/Secret_Squire1 11d ago

American having lived in Europe and the UK.

No it’s more like having to wait several weeks to be seen by a GP to be told to go home and take Tylenol while resting. I had my foot run over by a car and was told the same thing.

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u/Cadet_Stimpy 11d ago

It takes months to get appointments in the US now too. It’s not a socialized healthcare issue, it’s a medical professional shortage issue.

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u/AggravatingSun5433 11d ago

When I broke my hand in February I made a same day appointment the next morning for 10am at urgent care. The appointment cost $80.

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u/whorl- 11d ago

Obviously, these things are location dependent. The availability of care differs by state and geographic classification (urban, rural) and also whether or not the care facility takes your insurance.

I’m guessing you’re insured and that’s why it cost $80? Because when I’ve been uninsured it was like $300 just to be admitted and speak with someone.

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u/AyeYoTek 11d ago

95% of the country is insured. So you have to be a real outlier to not have insurance.

Obviously, these things are location dependent.

So why is the thread about America and not these locations?

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u/Nojoke183 11d ago

Being "insured" and actually having coverage that makes healthcare affordable are two very different things.

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u/SleepyHobo 11d ago

Most insurance plans are going to have a small copay. Then payment plan for the bill you get months later.

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u/Nojoke183 11d ago

"Small" 😂 I've got good insurance by American standards and I still have to pay $1000 before it even starts kicking in fully. Combine that with most Americans don't have $1000 in emergency savings and you talking about a fraction that can actually walk off the hit

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u/njackson2020 11d ago

For a lot of visits you only have a copay. You don't have to pay $1,000 before the copay kicks in. The copay counts towards that $1,000 deductible. Then you will have a out-of-pocket Max each year somewhere between $3,000 and $7,000. In my experience. After that, it is completely covered. You should never have to pay more than your out-of-pocket Max

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u/Nojoke183 10d ago

For a lot of visits you only have a copay

A lot of PREVENTIVE visits sure, but if you've already got a problem or they find one, you're on the hook for up to that deductible and then usually 30-60% of that bill up to that max out-of-pocket.

You should never have to pay more than your out-of-pocket Max

that's only if insurances covers everything which they probably won't. Not to mention lost wages from being out for recover from said major health issues

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u/njackson2020 10d ago

Every plan I have had is usjally a copay for specialist. Only time I had to use coinsurance was on one of my plans for an ER visit. My most recent ones have had co-pays for that too.

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u/Nojoke183 10d ago

Okay, so it sounds like you have good insurance. Why is it so hard to believe that isn't that case for many people?

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u/njackson2020 10d ago

Even my crappiest insurance has had co-pays. I tried researching ones that don't, since somebody commented that he has worked in insurance and the vast majority don't. I just cannot find any data on that. Do you know any good studies or articles?

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u/No_Tea1868 11d ago

Most insurance deductibles are thousands of dollars. Plans with copays are far rarer than you think. The majority of Americans are hit with the large bill right away.

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u/njackson2020 11d ago

What insurance are you referring to? I have never seen one that doesn't have a copay for things like urgent Care. They generally just vary on how large the copay is

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u/No_Tea1868 10d ago

I worked for a benefits company for several years. We managed Blue Cross Blue Shield / Mercer / Aetna / United Healthcare plans. Several different levels for each depending on what employers wanted to offer. I'm talking about hundreds of thousands of plans overall. None had copays except on prescription plans.

You know which ones do have copays? Medicaid.

Seriously. If you think the majority of Americans are on plans with copays rather than deductibles, coinsurance, and out of pocket maxes, you've got your head up your butt.

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u/njackson2020 10d ago

Do you happen to have any studies or articles on that? I'm not able to find any data to back that up and I would like to learn more

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u/njackson2020 10d ago

That's odd. I have had United healthcare, Blue Cross, and one not mentioned. All of them had co-pays

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u/BlackMesa_Admin 11d ago

POV: your parents pay for your insurance

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u/SleepyHobo 10d ago

My employer pays 100% of premium thanks. Cope.

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u/Sandgrease 10d ago

Congratulations I guess

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u/HumanByProxy 10d ago

Congrats, the outlier is the issue here though - i.e. you pretending this is the norm.

Also that means you’re trapped at the same employer lest you want to sacrifice access to your health benefits which then becomes limited career mobility.

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u/RunaroundX 11d ago

Yeah and I've also not been to the Dr even though I have good insurance because I can't afford the $30 copay.

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u/whorl- 11d ago

Being insured and being able to actually see a physician are not the same. Copays are prohibitively expense for a lot of people.

The 5% rate seems to be pulled out of your ass, since the actual number is closer to 10%.

Your last statement doesn’t even make sense; the US has both rural and urban areas. If you click the source you’ll see location by state absolutely matters since a bunch of states have uninsured rates into the teens.

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u/RunaroundX 11d ago

Actually about 7.5% of people were uninsured. So a little less than 95%.

Only a measly 26 million people. Who cares

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u/Big-Leadership1001 9d ago

Two thirds of American bankruptcies are due to insured medical debt. Insurance doesn't mean shit.

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u/FeInfantryCop 11d ago

I never understand it either. I live outside a major city and get same day, next day non emergent appointments at my GP. I can see my specialists in 2 days or less...this is the same area I've seen people claim they wait months for a GP appt but has not been anyone I know or my experience.

Just has to be people lying or not calling to more than 1 GP.

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u/seniordumpo 11d ago

I’ve had patients skip multiple appointments to their doctors for various reasons, then complain that the medical field has failed them. I’m like listen lady, you had 4 chances to go see your doctor to get your results, don’t complain to me that you have been waiting 2 months to find out what’s on the MRI!! I can understand complaining about insurance and difficulty getting GP appointments but damn, patients can be some of the most irresponsible people. Most dog owners would never miss a vet appointment, yet they are rarely as diligent with their own health.

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u/FeInfantryCop 11d ago

You can't reason with people who have their own biases in their own existence. It's like the kids who argue for communism with older people who fled communism. The inability to understand no government or implementation is perfect, is the issue at hand. I'd rather have to have my own insurance, and have much faster doctor appointments than a socialist style Healthcare system that is failing at a fast rate. That's not even comparable to how bad it would be here based solely on our population (more comorbidities than most other western nations).

I guarantee I pay less for my insurance and copay than the 20-30% increase in taxes for a socialized health system.

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u/seniordumpo 11d ago

Truth. Plenty of issues with insurance. It frequently being tied to employment, lack of portability, restricted purchase options. But transferring more responsibility from the individual to the government isnt going to be cheaper or lead to better outcomes.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/FeInfantryCop 11d ago

In the NHS system, the majority of people pay a 40% tax rate. They do not have the defense rate we pay (you can argue we shouldn't have such a massive defense budget but being realistic it will not go anywhere) so the majority of people would see over a 20% tad increase (this includes poor families who are the most in need).

Democrats in California proposed Medicare for all and they determined household taxes would need to be ATLEAST DOUBLED to pay for just their state. (It was an increase of over $12k PER household and you would still be required to pay a form of copay to use it & this was them also limiting what care would be covered to be more stringent).

The more liberal estimates stated CA would require over $450 BILLION per year in tax increases to pay for it (the annual budget is $300 billion).

This isn't "right-wing" anything. That's CA estimates. We've also done studies for SINGLE PAYER Healthcare and federal Taxes would require EVERYONE to pay an extra 20% and that would put us at a higher tax rate than paying for your own insurance. In fact, if everyone had insurance off the market, insurance costs would plummet. The reason they're high is uninsured costs.

Don't be daft because you disagree, this stuff has been studied to death and you're just incorrect.

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u/FeInfantryCop 11d ago

Just some more "right-wing" estimates from liberal think tanks below for your perusal.

CRFB also finds that even a low-end estimate of $30 trillion over a decade “would mean increasing federal spending by about 60 percent (excluding interest)” and “require the equivalent of tripling payroll taxes or more than doubling all other taxes.”

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u/Active2017 11d ago

This is the land of Reddit. Anything that makes America look bad will be upvoted.

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u/FeInfantryCop 11d ago

That is the truth. The problem is people will make the same repetitive claims as truth and when someone has different experiences, even with facts, they don't want to hear it.