r/politics • u/croato87 • 4d ago

America Lost the First Biden-Trump Debate Soft Paywall

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/america-lost-first-biden-trump-debate-1235048539/
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u/smokeeye 4d ago

Sure, not trying to discredit them. Same as AP is usually factual.

Just weird that in the whole western hemisphere the last 12 hours have only been about how Biden flunked and Trump is apparently the "winner"..

I am not from the U.S, but I do follow the news, inc US news every day and it just seems so coordinated.

I'll take my tinfoilhat off now.

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u/PriveChecker182 4d ago

Just weird that in the whole western hemisphere the last 12 hours have only been about how Biden flunked and Trump is apparently the "winner"..

Because trump was the same guy he's been for 9 years, and Biden humiliated himself. I'm a Biden supporter, and it's the truth. The man did not perform as needed.

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u/invokereform 4d ago

Yup. Biden was the only candidate who spoke with substance but sounded like shit. Most independent people won't look past his speech issues.

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u/Nukemind Texas 4d ago

Exactly what I felt and I didn’t watch, just listened while working.

First 30 seconds I even sent a text asking if he looked sick as his voice was off.

Biden may have stumbled but he spoke nothing but facts. That doesn’t matter. People are looking at candidates and comparing them to what their current opinions are of them. Trump came in and, thanks to the muted microphones, didn’t appear AS MUCH OF a bully as he usually does. He had some verbal diarrhea but he sounded strong.

Biden sounded old and tired.

Biden did a lot of things I like and I’m voting for him. But all I’ve heard at work today is how old he sounded, how weak he sounded. That’s what people are looking at unfortunately.

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u/invokereform 4d ago

Optics are very powerful.

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u/Birdy_Cephon_Altera 4d ago edited 4d ago

Going as far back as the first televised presidential debate, with a strong, fresh-faced Kennedy against a rumpled, distracted, five o'clock shadowed Nixon - presidential historians point to that debate as one of the contributing factors to Kennedy's win.

Edit: https://www.indiatoday.in/history-of-it/story/john-f-kennedy-vs-richard-nixon-debate-television-presidential-elections-result-us-2559104-2024-06-28

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u/Suspicious_Bicycle 4d ago

If you watched the debate with the sound off it would look like Trump was the clear winner. If you only read transcripts Biden was the winner.

Did the debate sway undecided voters either way? We'll have to wait and see.

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u/jejsjhabdjf 4d ago

It’s not just “optics”. Biden’s performance revealed that he was not capable, physically, of running a country. Everyone who votes for him now knows that they’re really voting for his handlers and that those handlers will lie and say he’s in charge. That’s not how democracy is supposed to work and it’s not just a superficial optics issue.

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u/Gen-Random 3d ago

He demonstrated pretty clearly that he is capable today. Last night, he had no notes, a lingering cold, and focused on citing facts in the face of fraud. On the whole he did poorly, but that debate wasn't worth deciding the future over.

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u/jejsjhabdjf 3d ago

You watched a man not know where he was or how to speak, staring off into space because of his dementia and you still have to cope so hard you call him capable of running a country. It’s really depressing how stupid your ideological fanaticism makes you and even more depressing if you get a vote. Absolutely shameful.

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u/Gen-Random 3d ago

The basic principle of democracy is that my perspective is different from yours. If I am not free to honestly communicate my experience, we no longer have democracy. I am not devoted to an "ideology" as Marx described, I see one man a criminal and the other a capable leader, and if you're not the least worried about Trump you simply don't care about the principles of our democracy.

Here's 2 minutes of Biden's half hour speech yesterday. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6QtISXR5nKo

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u/Absurdist_Principles 4d ago

Who are these “handlers” you refer to? Can you give me some names? If I’m really voting for them I’d like to know who they are

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u/jejsjhabdjf 3d ago

If you’re not aware that the president has staff whose names you can google then I don’t think it’s a good use of time trying to educate you.

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u/Absurdist_Principles 3d ago

I understand he has staff. Staff are not handlers. So you’re suggesting his staff have forced or tricked him into giving them jobs?

If so, I’m actually fine with that because the administration is actually doing a good job of running the country and this system suggests stability moving forward. Let’s keep this handler train going for 4 more years!

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u/jerryvo 3d ago

"the administration is actually doing a good job of running the country"

The administration is actually ruining the country.

There, I fixed your mistake.

Better check the borders, the cities, the economy, the military, his approval rating of his performance. It's devastating

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u/thatrko 4d ago

the cost of groceries ain't optics bud.

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u/_Wash 4d ago

Take it up with the corporations you're so eager to deregulate

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u/thatrko 4d ago

Yeah man, all the grocery store chains are colluding to price gouge the cost of groceries. Have you ever worked in sales or understand basic economics at all?

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u/_Wash 4d ago

Forbes literally put out an article at the end of May detailing how Walgreens/Target/Amazon/Walmart and more are lowering prices over 1000s of items each due to pressure from Biden.

These companies were all making RECORD PROFITS.

I understand basic economics and I've worked in sales. These companies were gouging us. Millionaires and billionaires raising prices dramatically so they can accrue wealth and fuck the everyday person.

Defend the corpos who wouldn't give a shit if you starved to death, though.

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u/thatrko 4d ago

I wouldn't give a shit if they starve to death either so I am okay with at.

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u/rfmaxson 4d ago

..Biden didn't just speak poorly, he lost his train of thought, and said things that didn't make sense.   The "we finally beat Medicare" line, even in context, it almost sounded like... he was claiming he had done Medicare for All?  But that's not even his policy - so what was he actually trying to say?

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u/UnderstandingOdd679 4d ago

Biden also got baited into some childish spats because that’s what Trump does to people. It’s how he rolled the GOP primaries in 2016. He plays a different game because he knows what resonates with short-attention TV-influenced voters. It’s bombastic rhetoric over policy talk, and that works in Trump’s favor because he’s a policy lightweight.

Any point either of them tried to make was completely overshadowed by the highlight of the debate: who’s the better golfer? That kind of discussion does not favor Biden.

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u/smile_e_face 3d ago

This is what has depressed me the most about the whole past decade of American politics. Trump is such a terrible, terrible candidate. Sure, he knows how to appeal to a certain type of person, and I will give him credit for playing the strongman, "tell it like it is" card well. But he has made so many blunders, fallen into so many gaffes, been caught in so many lies, committed so many sins that would have absolutely destroyed him in any normal race. But the candidates running against him have just been so incredibly incompetent, uninspiring, or both, that he has somehow managed to keep his head just above water.

I swear, I may have disagreed with Obama on a number of points, but 2008 Obama would have put Donald Trump in a pack and smoked it live on CNN. Are there seriously no national Democrats left with a functioning spine and a single spoonful of charisma?

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u/Kamelasa Canada 3d ago

And that should have been the easiest part to come in strong with. That cocky Biden Camaro/transam/wtfcar grin just around the corner. The man needed a physical warmup to put colour in his face and some chicken soup for his throat. How did his team let this happen? May seem wrong I blame them instead of him, but he was apparently sick. As am I and it messes with my head. I feel for the guy. He's overworked, like me, and he should have been fresh, fresh, fresh for this one. Did he have a fever? If so, seems unfair and unfortunate, but it means he could still kick ass next time. The too many words reminded me of so many first-time amateur presentations at uni. So, yeah, he's slowing down with age and the stress is too much. Fortunately he's not a dictator wannabe and he can delegate. But the ordinary person who's never had to deal with more complex employment may have no inkling of the pressure of being a cog in a giant machine, albeit an important one and a figurehead.

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u/jerryvo 3d ago

We cannot afford to have a weak, mumbling, declining leader. He is now a huge and dangerous problem for America.

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u/Not_High_Maintenance 4d ago

I thought Biden had a stroke. He looked that bad.

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u/DoctorDilettante 4d ago

Stop lying mate. Biden did not speak nothing but facts. He confused Medicare with immigration, said something about there being thousands of trillionairs(?) and I honestly don’t know what else he was trying to say here because he was befuddled, and then tried claiming he has built one of the strongest economies we’ve ever had. NOONE LIVING IN THIS ECONOMY FEELS THAT WAY.

If we want any hope of keeping Trump out of office then we have to start being honest and stop burying our heads in the sand.

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u/jamiestar9 4d ago

Biden immediately corrected himself on saying trillionaire instead of billionaire. That happens all the time with people saying billion and meaning million or vice versa and not correcting themselves. His point was that the ultra wealthy in America are not paying their fair share, far from it as a percentage of their income.

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u/Overall-Injury7462 4d ago

This was a bad line. Billionare’s wont win you the presidency. Every day Americans that are struggling with prices do. This line didn’t help me pay for my electric bill

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u/jamiestar9 4d ago edited 4d ago

Are you a real American voter or someone outside the country trying to influence our election? What sort of weird comment was that?

Biden isn’t courting billionaires, he is saying billionaires and everyone pulling in $400k income per year are not paying the right percentage of taxes. If that gets corrected government policies that help the middle class like the affordable care act and social security will be strong.

Why are people making $100,000 per year helping the incredibly well off to get away with paying such a low percentage in taxes? Republican policies are mostly for the benefit of the very rich, which is probably not most of you. And even a good number of the wealthy see the percentage they are paying and are perplexed. Yes the dollar amount the wealthy pay in taxes may seem high to the average worker, but the PERCENTAGE of their income is what counts.

The rich be like “Look, look everyone, Biden tripped over his words in the first debate. That automatically means we get to keep paying a low percentage of our income in taxes through 2028! Thems the rules!”

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u/Overall-Injury7462 3d ago

Yes, I’m a real voter. I live in Texas that swings republican anyways. This is not what I thought he was saying in the debate. It was like he was bragging that he’s created more billionaires. I’ll go back and listen. Seriously not trying to pick a fight. Also, I know he says that he didn’t raise taxes on anyone making less than 400k but technically my money doesn’t go as far as it used to so I see it’s as a round about tax. The build back better plan exploded the inflation rate. After this was done, everything I need to spend money on went up. My electric bill was never over 200$ in Texas summer and now I’m paying 400$+

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u/jamiestar9 3d ago

Ok, well sorry for questioning whether you were a real voter then. I hope over the next four months you become convinced to vote for Biden. I too believe real inflation is higher than what is being reported and that sucks for the middle class and lower income folks. I don’t think the executive branch has the power to fix it alone. Biden needs a democrat majority in both houses of congress. Also I hope the next emergency when congress decides to do stimulus they make sure the money gets to those who truly need it for essentials. Way too much of the stimulus went to those who did not need it for essentials.

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u/DoctorDilettante 4d ago

We’ve know about this though. He’s had 3 and a half years to do something about it… he’s destroyed this economy and the people hurt the worst are the average Americans. The middle class has now been decimated.

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u/jamiestar9 4d ago edited 4d ago

I believe the high inflation we are experiencing is due to the federal reserve printing a lot of money combined with the huge amount of stimulus congress passed that disproportionately went to people and businesses that did not need it for essentials. Americans typically look to the president to fix the economy but there is only so much power the executive position has. That is why Biden needs a democrat majority in congress so we can fix the tax situation (and also eliminate or at least raise the social security contribution cap). Trump lied about both in his remarks. One would think people would be concerned about Trump’s tax cuts for those making over $400k per year. Biden wants those cuts to expire. Trump wants to renew them.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/hurler_jones Louisiana 4d ago

How are they supposed to make record profits during a pandemic and beyond though? Sell things for a smaller profit so the economy doesn't come to a screeching hault?

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u/111IIIlllIII 4d ago

what policy decisions did biden enact that supposedly "destroyed" this singular thing called "the economy"

what objective measures are you using to determine that the "average american" is worse off under biden's term?

tell us how a bill is passed

most of what you say is fiction: https://www.forbes.com/sites/christianweller/2024/03/22/the-economy-is-much-stronger-than-four-years-ago/

to the extent that there are slivers of truth in your comment, the blame is much more easily attributable to the republicans elected to congress than biden

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u/DoctorDilettante 4d ago

I didn’t want to believe that /r politics was a bunch of people refusing to come to grips with reality but it actually appears to be true. No point in reasoning with people who are actively tuning out what’s happening in the world.

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u/111IIIlllIII 4d ago

uh huh. well i wish you the best of luck! god bless

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u/wirefox1 4d ago

Just like there is no reasoning with someone who I'm beginning to think is a republican bot?

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u/jerryvo 4d ago

They are looking at what is there - a guy not qualified anymore to be a politician. He's toast. He cannot recover from this and he needs to do the right thing, go now and Harris with him

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u/sqweezee 4d ago

It’s a valid concern to have about the next POTUS when they’re 81 years old and looking that bad. Millions of Americans have personal experience with older relatives degenerating like this, and I strongly doubt they’d want their relatives going to work at all much less running the USA.

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u/Strict-Growth-5286 4d ago

He lied on almost every point. What the heck were you watching ?

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u/wirefox1 4d ago

Most of the things he said were 'okay', but there was no force, no vitality. It threw cold water on his responses.

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u/invokereform 4d ago

When only one candidate actually knows policy and how the process works, it becomes clear who the better leader is.

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u/nagging_nagger 4d ago

If his issues were limited to speech I'm sure most people would be able to look past it

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u/invokereform 4d ago

Outside of speech, his thoughts had far more substance lol

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u/gsfgf Georgia 4d ago

Thankfully, independents don't actually watch the debates.

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u/pablonieve 4d ago

Where did that impression come from?

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u/Mrg220t 3d ago

But they'll be watching social media and tv ads

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u/Overall-Injury7462 4d ago

What substance? You understood him? It was a freaking mess. CNN didn’t do Biden a favor by muting Trumps mic. They should have let Trump speak out of turn and interrupt Biden. Then voters would say Trump was mean and Biden wouldn’t have just rambled on incoherently at times. When he stopped short of his allotted time and Jake Tapper said you still have 40ish seconds and he rambled on about something else, it was over. The sad thing about this debate is there will not be another one and first impressions is what is going to be remembered Election Day. Biden lost his presidency last night. The Democrats better figure this out or it will be a rout on Election Day.

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u/ihatedthatride 4d ago

It was not just his speech issues. He shuffled to the podium, had clueless/confused looks throughout, & it wasn’t just mumbled speech or stuttering. Biden couldn’t form coherent sentences. I’m not voting for Trump but the democrats need to take a hard look at Biden & decide if he truly is the right candidate. Democracy is at stake. For the love of God give us a candidate that isn’t showing signs of dementia.

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u/invokereform 4d ago

Putting an unfamiliar candidate that people don't know as your candidate 5 months before the election is a surefire way to lose it.

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u/ihatedthatride 3d ago

Put Pete Buttigieg in. A well spoken younger person who’s known for eloquently calling out Trump & right wing media on their shit & can continue the work Biden started. This debate was before the convention for a reason. Biden’s team knows he’s too old. I appreciate his service. He needs to retire before he makes the same mistake RBG did.

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u/jerryvo 3d ago

His content was oftentimes bizarre and indicative of serious decline. He cannot and must not continue. Even his most ardent supporters are in agreement on this, to the point where allowing him to to even remain in office is considered elder abuse.

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u/invokereform 3d ago

Transcripts don't lie, sorry. Despite obvious speech issues, only one candidate had any substance. The fact he even had policy talking points and all Trump did was complain like a loser is probably more indicative of who's declining.

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u/jerryvo 2d ago

Your opinion and it holds no water. Only 7% (at MSNBC!) think Biden's performance was a "win". This translates to lost votes - in droves. Downstream candidates are not going to want to be seen with Biden. Donors are wanting to speak to him (guess what they will be suggesting).

If Biden's performance had any substance, it went whizzing overhead and went unnoticed. Trump was nearly universally seen as a stronger candidate.

I can see that you strongly dislike Trump, I get that, but his campaign got an unexpected huge boost Thursday. People are not going to set that aside to read transcripts.

To further Biden's new-found foes, many Democrats are now turned off, both from the campaign and from voting. The old "why bother" comments from interviews are coming in. I know it is just chatter, but that debate was SO horrible for Biden, Trump already has excerpts running as campaign ads keeping it fresh in people's memories. Compare the effect of transcripts to the TV replays....

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u/Strict-Growth-5286 4d ago

Substance ? He lied and fumbled every single point. No kills on his watch ? 200 prescription limit ? 15 insulin ? Fine people ? 15 % unemployment when he took office ? Low border crossings ? Shall I continue?

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u/keepingitrealgowrong 4d ago

"speech issues", come on this cope can't still be real to you

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u/invokereform 4d ago

What substance did Trump have? What policy questions did he actually answer? One of the candidates has policy plans and a cabinet to enforce them, and the other guy is an angry child who just wants to get retribution lol. It's not that complicated.

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u/keepingitrealgowrong 4d ago edited 4d ago

I'm not sure what any of that has to do with you clinging to the idea of Biden's decline as "speech issues" like it's just his stammer.

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u/invokereform 4d ago

Biden had actually rehearsed and has policy plans ready to talk about. Trump had none besides his tariffs and a tax break for the wealthy. You can be upset about his speech, and I am too, bit it's clearly more of a communication issue than an actual cognitive issue. If you deny that, then fine, but you still have to face the fact that Biden still had more policy plan than Trump lol.

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u/prunford 4d ago

Pretty much everyone, including every station covering the debate and post debate, on both sides of the political spectrum, disagree with your assessment. Biden very much does have a serious cognitive issue. There was very little mention of Trump at all post debate, his performance is virtually a non factor from what happened last night.

I voted for Biden in 2020.

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u/invokereform 4d ago

Well, according to a poll I just saw on Reddit, his polling just got a boost among independents. So who cares lmao. Also, btw, every network I saw cover it outside of FOX/Newsmax called out Trump's egregious lies. So, I'm not sure which stations you are referring to.

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u/Mrg220t 3d ago

You're talking about the "poll" asked to around 12 latino independents in a room watching the debate on who they would vote for? That "poll" ? lmao

This one?

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/1dqt37f/undecided_voters_say_they_now_support_joe_biden/

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u/prunford 4d ago

CNN, CBS, ABC, Kamala Harris wouldn't even address the direct question about Bidens cognitive abilities when interviewed immediately after the debate by I believe ABC.

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u/Owlmechanic 4d ago

Okay lets be realistic

1.) Trump spoke with no substance
2.) Biden only spoke with SOME substance. It wasn't just his speech issues. His thoughts were easily scattered and derailed, he wasn't that difficult to goad into going far off-topic as well. He completely missed several wide open opportunities to smoke trump or provide the hard responses based in fact that he almost certainly not only should have been, but probably WAS coached on. In addition to the speech issues (which, for a president whose job it is to communicate clear positions and orders - is as bad as saying "He's not that bad a sprinter, for a guy with a broken leg")

It's like the guy above you said - we're not used to seeing Biden this bad. Trump set the bar incredibly low but we are trying incredibly hard to limbo under it.

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u/Far-Increase5577 4d ago

Was the substance turning a question about abortion to illegal rapists?

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u/thatrko 4d ago

Biden just accused Trump of lying and repeated old debunked hoaxes about him all night, there was nothing of substance said by him. Trump can stand on his past record and whether you feel he exaggerates it or not the country was much better off with him than Joe and that is what most people have taken away form the last 3+ years.

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u/smokeeye 4d ago

That is true, but that line of thought also invites to disregard everything he (Biden) and his cabinet/adminsistration have done for the last 3.5 years.

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u/PriveChecker182 4d ago

There's the world as I wish it was, and the world as it is. As pathetic as it is, a vast swath of the American electorate believes the President is a king who single handedly does everything, and that there's little difference between the two options to begin with.

People like you and me don't need to have the pros and cons of either man explained. But your average American doesn't know and worst of all rarely cares, so they see one guy who looks kind of stupid and another who looks like he can't string a sentence together -rightly or wrongly- they're going to assume the stupid option is the safer option.

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u/Saffs15 4d ago

In addition to that, they think that despite being all powerful, when a president goes out of office they believe that everything that happens from then on is on the new guy in office. When in truth, a lot of bills have effects that reach years or decades down the road. I remember when Obama was president there were still bills going into effect that Reagan had passed.

The troop withdrawal is a prime example. Trump negotiated and set up the entire thing, and even got a massive start on it to the point that whoever was in office come February of 2020 wasn't gonna have an option to stop it or the way it was done. So, they blame Biden for how much of a cluster fuck it was, specifically using talking points for things that were forced to happen from Trumps administration even if Biden was the one in office at the time.

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u/smokeeye 4d ago

:Thumbsup: as the kids say.

Even so if I am versed in american politics for quite a good years, I am still baffled by the "team-sport" mentality and worship of the president.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst.

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u/shinkouhyou Maryland 4d ago

So what do you want news agencies to do? Lie and say that Biden did a great job? Anyone who watched the debate or saw the online reaction to it will know that it's transparent propaganda.

I think the response from left/center news agencies has largely been appropriate. Biden's debate performance was terrible, and it does raise legitimate questions about his fitness to serve for another 4 years. But Trump's debate performance was also terrible, and he's already proven himself to be unfit to serve.

Look, I'm a Biden voter, and I think he's been a pretty good president overall. But that debate performance was horrifying and there's really no way to spin it. Supposedly Biden was sick with a cold last night, but if that's how he debates with a cold, what happens when he gets the sniffles during a major international crisis? It's legitimately frightening to have to worry about Biden becoming another Ronald Reagan propped up by his aides.

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u/smokeeye 4d ago

Never said they should lie. I am a leftist in Europe, so probably considered a descendant of Marx himself in the U.S.

He did bad, absolutely. But he is not worse than Trump as a president, more so because of the cabinet Biden will bring with him, rather than the psycophant "yes-men" that Trumps brings.

The goverment is more than the president.

But... You should see how they spin this is Europe, still at this moment. As I told another commenter, on the most popular news page in my country, half the (front) page, is just; "experts say Biden might have dementia".

So why the F...? I have never seen anything like this regarding Trump, in ALL of his years. Maybe a big notice of whatever, but now, this whole day, all the news outlets are basically just running "Biden flunked - Trump won", with no other substance. Maybe a footnote in the end that says "Trump lied the most".

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u/surfnsound 4d ago

Because, from an electorate standpoint, Trump did win.

Debates don't really matter a whole lot in this day and age, or at least they haven't in the last few decades. Like 80+% of the country, probably more, already know who they're voting for.

The rest probably aren't the most informed voters to begin with, and will lose attention during a debate that gets too deep into policy. But they're definitely going to remember Biden fumbling his speech, trailing off, being called out by Trump saying he can't give a response because he couldn't understand what he was saying.

The bar was so low for Biden, and he still couldn't get over it. It was dumb even bothering to debate Trump because he had very little to gain, and gaffes could cost him a lot. But his handlers probably thought they were going to mop the floor with Trump because Trump is weak on policy. Except they forgot two things:

  1. Trump doesn't go into debates trying to win on policy
  2. You can't debate with someone who won't engage

Also, like it or not, a debate starting at 9 PM is probably too late for an 81 year old.

And before you twist my words into thinking I am Pro-Trump, I will say that a second Trump term will be an unequivocal disaster, but after last night I am worried we are much closer to one than we were yesterday.

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u/trampolinebears 4d ago

This isn't about who won the debate. It's about what the debate revealed about each of the men involved.

Trump was revealed to be exactly the dangerous maniac we already knew he was.

Biden was revealed to be incapable of confronting him.

That's what this is about.

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u/toobjunkey 4d ago

Exactly. Not even a few months ago there was a surge in articles going around on r/popular about Trump showing "worrying" cognitive declines and the like in his speeches. There was lots of smug "and people thought Biden was the old one? pffft" sentiment and people expecting it to come out during this debate.

It's frustrating seeing ppl get dogliled on in past months about concerns over biden's age (even when saying they're still going to vote for him!) to... this. The goal posts keep shifting. Just months ago there were countless claims of posters being "Russian assets" or some similar blue-Q cope when people would express concern over Biden's age and wishing we had a better dem choice. Now it's shifted to "WELL, it's more of a vote against trump anyway. I'd vote for a can of corn before I vote for trump."

I am worried. Deeply worried. Both for the country and also for the democratic party. Win or lose, I'm worried they're not going to learn from this and look inward for what went wrong and what could've went better. It's gonna be another 8 years of denial and trying to place 100% of the dems' failures as being due to the progressive wing of the party and "Russian assets".

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u/i_tyrant 4d ago

As the quote above says, the second half of the debate he was much better, but I'd bet a lot of Americans much less Europeans did not stick around for that.

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u/stoned_ocelot 4d ago

I'm not even a Biden supporter, I just can't fathom what another Trump presidency would bring. But watching the debate, with strong disdain for Trump, it's still hard to say he didn't win the optics game.

Was he spewing bullshit claim after bullshit claim? Yes. But his demeanor and the fact that Biden couldn't develop answers fast enough to combat Trumps rhetoric made Trump the winner of the debate.

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u/HarlowMonroe 4d ago

Yep. Wish we could just be honest. I watched before my husband. I told him it was bad and that people are calling for Biden to drop out. He’s like, it can’t be -that- bad. After watching he goes, it was worse.

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u/0ftheriver 4d ago

I mean, Bidens performance was objectively terrible, and most outlets are avoiding declaring Trump “the winner”. But to answer your question: yes, there is at least one major aggregator, Gannett Press, that distributes talking points to most of the major news outlets around 4-5 am, but which can also include news sources outside of the United States. The outlets that don’t get the memo directly, reshare from those who do.

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u/Dontuselogic 4d ago

The fact that Trump lied the whole debate and people seriously consder him a winner is insanely bad for America.

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u/curtcolt95 4d ago

the person who sounds the most persuasive or yells the loudest is always considered the winner tbh. It's not right, but it's been this way for decades now

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u/jerryvo 4d ago

I think closer to 3,500 years

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u/DrippyWaffler New Zealand 4d ago

Because it's not about who tells the truth, it's about who sounds good saying whatever they're saying.

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u/jerryvo 4d ago

It's about how much you can relate to the person speaking clearly.

66-34

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u/DrippyWaffler New Zealand 4d ago

What's 66-34?

1

u/jerryvo 4d ago

The split per 100 for previously undecided voters who jumped on the Trump bandwagon

3

u/pablonieve 4d ago

I think what we're learning is that many would prefer a confident liar to an old man.

1

u/Dontuselogic 4d ago

Trump is barly functioning old person.

-4

u/jerryvo 4d ago

Former President Trump appeared strong and vibrant - by all accounts. He has a 6-mile line of cars trying to get in to see him right now. You call him "barly (sic) functioning? He spent zero time in prep for the debate and blew Biden away.

oh....I get it...

I just saw your handle

6

u/Chendii 4d ago

He spent zero time in prep for the debate and blew Biden away

Why would he need to prep when no matter what he says his base will eat it up? It's easy to sound strong and confident when you can just verbally spew whatever you want regardless of truth or coherence.

-1

u/jerryvo 4d ago

I do not believe that people doubted his commitment to restoring the borders, reducing taxes et. al.

He had no intention of documenting the details of all his programs, past and proposed. He was extremely coherent. You can disagree all you want with Trump, but compared to Biden he is miles ahead in coherence.

4

u/Dontuselogic 4d ago

You don't need prep to lie.

Honestly, people wonder how Stalin or Mao or Hitler came right power.

This is a prime example of how

0

u/jerryvo 4d ago

As Trump said (and if Biden stopped mumbling he would have agreed) this was about getting elected first. If Biden was trying to come in 2nd in a 2 horse race, he did a great job.

20

u/honjuden 4d ago

It is probably because everyone expects Trump to be a rambling liar, but not as many people expected Biden to be an incoherent mess.

2

u/SuchRoad 4d ago

Reading the transcript, it's obvious which one is the incoherent mess. On top of that, compare the two administrations to determine which was the success and which was the failure.

2

u/JUST_AS_G00D 3d ago

The transcript only favors Biden because it omits his seconds long blank faced pauses, and graciously interprets some of the slop that dribbled from his lips.

1

u/SuchRoad 3d ago

No one should be giving a shit about such superficial distractions, we are going to have to choose between these two guys. You can read the transcript and attempt to grasp which one is going to move the country forward, and which one is a worthless criminal looking to loot our system.

1

u/JUST_AS_G00D 3d ago

Move the country forward by beating Medicare!

1

u/SuchRoad 3d ago

What does that mean?

1

u/JUST_AS_G00D 3d ago

Idk ask Biden

1

u/Factory2econds 3d ago

Not sure if you read the same 538 article earlier, but if not, you might like it. Long story short: most people decide the winner based on whether a candidate exceeds expectations, but the expectations for them are very different.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-trump-june-debate-poll/

6

u/DoctorDilettante 4d ago

Did you watch the debate? No one who watched can possibly say otherwise without being ridiculed unfortunately…

6

u/wirefox1 4d ago

I haven't heard a single person say Biden did a great job. We saw what we saw and there's no sense in pretending otherwise. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I will vote, and I will vote against trump, and in favor of our democracy, like most of us. I do want us to stand up for him though, because he stands up for us.

0

u/DoctorDilettante 4d ago

We simply cannot vote for Biden in this state, we need to speak up now and loudly so the DNC can put a plan in place. It’s completely unethical to have this man as our primary.

2

u/ValoisSign 4d ago

Me and my gf (not American nor living there but we do follow the elections) were actually musing aloud as to whether democrat higher ups actually want Trump in power, like some big fascist conspiracy that's reached both halls of power. That's how shocking it was to see. My heart sank for you guys tbh, I have never seen such a blatantly bad choice of candidate or at least not since the smuggest guy I ever saw ran in my country (Biden at least didn't come off like a bad guy, just like a nice but confused grandpa a month after dying).

1

u/wirefox1 4d ago

We absolutely can.

-1

u/DoctorDilettante 4d ago

Enjoy losing then.

-1

u/SuchRoad 4d ago

It’s completely unethical to have this man as our primary.

Unfortunately for you, this is a democracy.

1

u/DoctorDilettante 4d ago

You’re right and when Trump wins because we failed to prop up a competent candidate then hopefully this will be the winds of change blowing in for our governance.

1

u/wirefox1 4d ago

Who exactly is "we"? I don't think you can include yourself in this category.

1

u/SuchRoad 4d ago

we failed to prop up a competent candidate

He's already been the most productive president we have had in our lifetime, the record speaks for itself: /r/WhatBidenHasDone , and of course you can compare these accomplishments to the shitty things conservatives are doing to harm our country at: r/Keep_Track/

-1

u/DoctorDilettante 4d ago

Oh Christ we are truly fucked if you actually believe that.

10

u/Ordinaryundone 4d ago

No, you are completely right. The media is feasting right now because "Biden is weak" is the best clickbait they could have gotten out of this debate short of one of them throwing a punch or dying. Half these headlines feel like they were pre-written just so they could be the first to yell about how screwed Biden is, just like they do about everything else. If Biden isn't perfect, America is doomed, but Trump can stand up there and spew diarrhea nonsense and so long as he does so in a loud voice he's the "winner".

It's just another lap of the horse race.

7

u/smokeeye 4d ago

In Norway a headline right now (literally the top headline with a big image covering half the page) is: "Expert might think that Biden shows symptoms of Parkinsons". And this is from what is regarded the most objective, non-clickbaity, neutral - news source there is in my country..

lol

What the flying fuck is happening

11

u/theassman107 4d ago edited 4d ago

Did you not watch the debate (understandable if you live in Norway)? Look, I'd vote for a fucking corpse over Trump. The man is a clear and present danger to the US and the world. That said, and substance aside, he showed the virility of a 50 year old man, while Biden looked like he was struggling to remember where he was. The only way it could have gone worse would be for Biden to have a McConnell moment and freeze up and be led off stage. And the scariest thing is the debate was on the calendar. Surely his handlers made sure he was well rested, fed and provided some Adderall or high quality meth before the debate. We needed Biden from the State of the Union address. Instead we got a feeble old man that looked like he's a few months away from a nursing home. It was so bad, it very well may have lost Biden the election.

IDK if Biden has four weeks or four months, but there's no way in hell he'll be coherent for four more years. Which is fine for me - I'd rather have Harris than MAGA. But independents decide elections in the US and I fear Biden may have lost the election last night. It was that much of a train wreck - and I'm a Biden supporter.

1

u/ValoisSign 4d ago

tbh I think you might actually be about to vote for a corpse over Trump, based on what I just watched. I would too, he had better points when I could understand them, but I am not certain Biden is alive based on that debate.

2

u/nagging_nagger 4d ago edited 3d ago

That's been my assumption, his increasingly lockjaw manner of speech reminds me of someone I knew who suffered from Parkinsons. The debate last night felt like elder abuse.

2

u/keepingitrealgowrong 4d ago

Have you considered that headline is objective and neutral? lol

0

u/wirefox1 4d ago

He walks and appears stiff because he has arthritis of the spine. He seemed slow last night because they overly rehearsed him nonstop for five days and made him absolutely mentally and physically exhausted before they put him on the stage. He is reported to have a cold which made him cough at times. They should have called it off, because this could cost him the election.

I blame his staff.

4

u/nagging_nagger 4d ago

I can't imagine cancelling the debate because he had a cold would've helped the perception that he is feeble and in the late stages of a terminal decline

2

u/wirefox1 4d ago edited 4d ago

I relatively sure there is not much worse than what happened last night.

2

u/hurler_jones Louisiana 4d ago

My question would be did you watch the debate and if so, does your opinion differ from that which you read.

Also be mindful that news organizations have been on a firing spree for at least a decade now and more recently they are turning to AI for copy (quite literlally I suppose)

3

u/smokeeye 4d ago
  1. Yes. It was a shitshow. But I also know that not any properly accredited, and functioning personal in the medical field would go on national news and say they "suspect the person from having Parkinsons" based on 45 mins of talking between two guys on tv from another country..

3

u/putin_my_ass 4d ago

Just weird that in the whole western hemisphere the last 12 hours have only been about how Biden flunked and Trump is apparently the "winner"..

This pattern is all over Russia/Ukraine reporting: the sky is falling for about two days and then you find out it was all bullshit.

If it seems fishy, it probably is. If a story is making a strong emotional appeal, you need to question it.

2

u/kosmokomeno 4d ago

The people who Biden represent are beholden to reality, so when he does terribly, everyone says so. It's the opposite for the other side. They do not live in reality, so no matter how horrible the old orange orge is, they'll never admit it

1

u/phro 4d ago

Just go watch it?

1

u/thefrydaddy 4d ago

You're confused that corporate-run media like the guy who slashed the corporate tax rate?

1

u/Ruhezeit 4d ago

A relatively small number of billionaires own all the news outlets in the world, and several of them are ultra-right lunatics who use their companies to do evil. It's not a conspiracy. It's the objective truth.

1

u/DoorHingesKill 4d ago

Debate watchers say, 67% to 33%, that Trump turned in a better performance Thursday. 

Prior to the debate, the same voters said, 55% to 45%, that they expected Trump to turn in a better performance than Biden

It's not coordinated, the whole western hemisphere says Biden flunked because they watched him do it, live on television. 

Obama defended him on Twitter, admitting that the debate was bad, then talks about having bad debates himself in 2012 and explains why Biden is still the better candidate. 

Biden had a rally in N.C. today where he said this

 I know I'm not a young man. I don't walk as easy as I used to. I don’t speak as smoothly as I used to. I don’t debate as well as I used to, but I know what I do know — I know how to tell the truth!

1

u/Technicalhotdog 3d ago

Because that's what people watching the debate saw. It's tough to put a positive spin on Biden's performance.

0

u/007ffc 4d ago

Did you watch the debate? It was clear Biden flunked. Might as well convict Trump for the 35th time, Biden was clearly murdered on stage