r/Wellthatsucks • u/DMAS1638 • 3d ago
Plumbers broke through this foundation to add pipes, compromising the structural support of the home.
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u/brian0066600 3d ago
I’m not a plumber, but that seems like so much more work than going around no? A fucking elbow and some glue?
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u/mb10240 3d ago
They didn’t have the elbows in the truck.
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u/Misanthropyandme 3d ago
They had a sledgehammer
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u/decapods 3d ago
When all you have is a sledgehammer, all problems look like load-bearing cement walls.
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u/light_trick 2d ago
I'm pretty sure provided you had more then those exact lengths of pipe you could've gone around with the parts used in that picture.
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u/fork_your_child 3d ago
New company initiative: Your bonus is based on how many feet of pipe you save per job, so here's a jackhammer.
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u/brian0066600 3d ago
I mean seriously… he had to crawl under there with a 60lb tool and fucking bust that shit out
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u/orangejulius 3d ago
I am also astonished at the level of effort they put into doing that completely wrong.
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u/Least_Ad930 3d ago
I know your joking, but this sounds like something my boss would have us do running conduit. I remember one time we needed to put up a bunch of supports and he gave us like 1/10th of the bolts we needed and said, "just make it look like it's supported, this is cutting into my bonus." This was also inside of a plant. Dude made an insane amount of money in bonuses and paid all of his employees really poorly.
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u/XB1MNasti 3d ago
That doesn't make any sense... They make money off every and any part they buy.
The pricing is (cost)x2+50. And thats for every elbow, pipe, and glue they buy for a job.
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u/Intelligent_Meal_113 3d ago
That was my exact thought like why the fuck wouldn’t they just run a couple elbows and some glue. Hell a damn dryer vent duct pipe and some duct tape would have been better then this janky, not even half assed work. The strapping job they did to hold it up looks atrocious as well. Ray Charles could have done a better job installing this.
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u/Only_Indication_9715 3d ago
It's clear that they missed their aim and put that 4x2 combo in first. By the time they got the 2" branch there, it was too late to move the combo easily.
That's not a justification, just how I could see it going down.
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u/CosmicTeardrops 3d ago
Now I’m not a plumber or contractor by any stretch, but I do believe I could do better.
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u/OhMyGod_Zilla 3d ago
I think my 4 year old could do better. This is scary. One bad day of weather and the house goes bye bye.
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u/mjh2901 3d ago
If this is from your home inspection, run like hell, if this is your house and those plumbers where just there get an attorney the fix is on them and will be expensive, if this is a flip then it seems about right.
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u/DMAS1638 3d ago edited 2d ago
We are a construction company that does property assessments, it's not the first time we have run into something like this.
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u/LadyIsabelle_ 3d ago
Is it possible to track down the plumbers and hold them accountable?
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u/No_Translator2218 3d ago
This is why "licensed and bonded" is important. Not only for them to claim that, but for you to go online and google theirs.
Otherwise, you're basically just capable of suing them, unless they are actively breaking the law, you could be shit out of luck for hiring them. But hopefully your insurance would cover it...
Bonded means they have put up money to cover this sort of event. (usually its insurance they've pre-paid afaik)
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u/somepeoplehateme 2d ago
This is only helpful with legit businesses that are trying to stay in business.
We had "bad" plumbing done from a licensed/bonded company and it didnt help us at all.
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u/SoulWager 2d ago
Bonded means there's money to go after if you sue them, even if they go out of business.
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u/nmpls 2d ago
The bond is almost always a pretty comically low amount of money. The bond in CA is $25k. And that just got raised in 2023. And if you know anything about the cost of construction here 25k isn't fixing much.
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u/SoulWager 2d ago edited 2d ago
That's the minimum required by law. If they're asking for more than that much money to do the work, you can reasonably ask them to increase the bond to cover it. You can also require them to have liability insurance.
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u/Alert-Ad9197 2d ago
Did you speak directly with their bond’s surety company? The contractor’s desire to stay in business doesn’t matter if he had an active bond while working in your project. Surety company pays and collecting from the contractor is their problem.
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u/somepeoplehateme 2d ago
It's been a number of years and my spouse did part of the work so it's hazy.
If I remember correctly, it was a good company that went bad. When they did the work for us is when they were on their downhill slide.
We had problems with their work not being done to code and called and they were out of business. Someone had bought the contracts and employees, but the old company was bankrupted.
Contacted the state, etc., but all that was available to us was $600.
Like I said, it's been a number of years and I didn't handle all of it, but we brought in attorneys as well. We didn't pursue it in court though.
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u/nlevine1988 3d ago
I'm guessing they're not licensed or insured so even if you find them you'll never get any money out of them because all of their money goes to meth or fentanyl
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u/moogpaul 3d ago
They just declare bankruptcy, close down, and open a new business under their spouses name anyway.
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u/nlevine1988 3d ago
Bold of you to assume they're actually a real business and not just some dude on Facebook doing work under the table in cash.
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u/CorvusBrachy 3d ago
We call this “chuck in a truck”
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u/pagit 2d ago
What if it was Dan with a Van?
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u/docker1970 2d ago
I made a mistake once, hired an unknown company to sand/repaint my deck. Two days work he said. First he shows up, brings the tools and then disappears. Some other dude shows up 3-4 hrs later, sands half of it then disappears around 2PM. I called the guy the 2nd day at 10AM after no one shows up at 8AM. He has no clue why and sends someone else. This dude shows up but says he’ll just finish sanding. He vanishes after done and on the third day the first guy shows up and does the worst paint job ever. And once I gave him the check he asks if I can leave a positive review on Angies or something. Like wtf bro. The audacity….
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u/BusterTheCat17 2d ago
Bold of him to also assume this plumbers brain functions enough to get married and/or start an LLC.
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u/No_Translator2218 3d ago
I said this elsewhere, but this is why you check the bonded status of your contractor before they do work.
Bonded means - they've put up money (or insurance) already with a regulated body in your area to cover this sort of damage.
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u/veganize-it 2d ago
If you are in Nothern VA, how do you check for that?
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u/No_Translator2218 2d ago
Ask the contractor for the bonded license number or name that will appear on their estimate or contract. If they're not legit they will run away from your knowledge.
If they give you something, call or email the DPOR and provide the info and you'll get what you need. Just Google dpor Virginia.
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u/Only_Indication_9715 3d ago
I mean, I'm a plumber, and the actual plumbing work here is acceptable - I'd rate it 'not bad".
But for some godforsaken reason, they put in that 4x2 combo at a really dumb spot. How they decided smashing the cinder block was the way to go? That one I can't figure.
So, yeah, probably a meth addict.
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u/captanzuelo 3d ago
I dont think thats a cinder block. Thats poured concrete, structural foundation of the house
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u/Only_Indication_9715 2d ago
You are definitely correct. My bad.
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u/captanzuelo 2d ago
And you are correct in that a meth addict probably did the smashing
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u/UsedDragon 3d ago
Right? Why not just pipe right around the support? It would have been easier.
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u/exredditor81 3d ago
smashing the cinder block
Looks like solid poured cement to me.
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u/AltruisticSalamander 2d ago
agree it just looks like cinderblock because of the formwork impressions
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u/koret121212 3d ago
Woah woah woah, some of those guys are just good ole fashion chain smoking alcoholics
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u/ProperProfessional 2d ago
Plumber was my buddy Greg, we did it last weekend while drinking.
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u/A_LiftedLowRider 3d ago
In your opinion as a construction company assessment guy, are people always this stupid?
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u/Great-Palpitation308 3d ago
Head of a commercial construction estimating department here; we selectively do some residential work for commercial clients' personal homes. I have a residential design-build renovation im finalizing this week for $800k, adding a second floor to a home and full reno on the first floor. Home was bought 14 months ago for $925k, home was originally built in the 1920's and is in a very posh area in the center of a relatively HCOL city. See some stupid shit in commercial, but not as much as I do in residential. Homeowners typically want the cheapest option, and that means hiring the likely unlicensed guy who gets his labor pool from the home depot parking lot. Vet your general contractor and ask him to provide a list of his subcontractors
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u/78765 2d ago edited 2d ago
Homeowners typically want the cheapest option, and that means hiring the likely unlicensed guy who gets his labor pool from the home depot parking lot.
Homeowners often don't know that the plumber didn't have to do what they did. I have witnessed plumbers taking out way more than they need or not spending a little more time doing it right or missing the bid and cutting their losses. From my observation, homeowners typically hire licensed plumbers and expect them to do the needful and learn the hard way they need more than a plumber.
I should add that this particular mess doesn't look like a plumber was involved. They usually at least get the pipes done right.
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u/Great-Palpitation308 2d ago
You are correct as well. Homeowners do tend to be more ignorant than commercial customers and can easily fall victim to crews willing to cut corners.
That's why you vet your contractor and get references. Also, read your proposal and think about what level of customer service you want to receive. For my $800k residential, I've got around $85k in there just as the project super. It'll be an at least 11 month job and the customers lender requires full time, on site supervision throughout the duration of the project as a condition of the loan.
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u/Pixzal 3d ago
people are not stupid, they just want the money and don't care.
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u/NolanSyKinsley 3d ago
If this really is the same person, they go by AlphaStructural over on Imgur and post weekly digests about stuff they have seen during their inspections and it is usually pretty horrifying.
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u/Armand74 3d ago
So the question is was this recent?? Cause what the fuck?
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u/zeroscout 2d ago
It looks like it was done a while ago. I would guess during the early 2000's real estate boom. There were a lot of inexperienced people renovating homes.
You can tell it's old by how smooth the concrete is where it was knocked out. Concrete will have sharp edges on new defects or active defects.
I wouldn't imagine too much of an issue with it. The joists above are singels, so there are not walls or load supports above. Probably open floor. Again, the smooth concrete indicates that there's no movement of the sill plate. The sill plate wood is also in excellent condition. No cracking or loss of wood.
As an inspector, I would definitely write it up as a defect. However, I wouldn't call it critical or safety hazard. There's some allowance of cutting through foundation walls for utilities. This is a horrible job, but the gap looks like it's less than a foot, and not under any load.
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u/Iwasborninafactory_ 2d ago
Maybe I'm just biased be some of the shit I've seen on houses I bought, but this doesn't look so bad. This doesn't look front page of reddit bad. It looks like $500 for an engineer bad, and $1,000 to fix bad.
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u/catmaster17 3d ago
As a structural engineer , I can assure you that plumbers are the number one enemy to building structures
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u/Block_Of_Saltiness 3d ago
The number of times I've seen floor joists cut completely thru to accommodate plumbing is mind boggling.
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u/meat_fuckerr 3d ago
home inspection
mine missed leaking walls (visible stains), knob and tube wiring, lead pipes but found a missing railing. Good use of 500$
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u/zeroscout 2d ago
What state? A lot of states don't require home inspectors to be licensed and certified. Was the inspector recommended by the realtor? They will always recommend inspectors that do just enough over inspectors that will "kill" the deal. I was a home inspector before covid and realtors hated me. I took 4 hours to inspect small homes.
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u/meat_fuckerr 2d ago
South Canuckistan. Yes he was. Sigh... I should have done what I wanted and bought a FLIR camera over this profane expense.
Oh the inspection did take 4 hours! He documented every iota of useless shit.
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u/SatisfactionOld7423 2d ago
Mine was very expensive and gave me many infrared photos of my oven burners and almost nothing on my plumbing, foundation, and mice colony.
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u/zeroscout 2d ago
It looks like it was done a while ago. I would guess during the early 2000's real estate boom. There were a lot of inexperienced people renovating homes.
You can tell it's old by how smooth the concrete is where it was knocked out. Concrete will have sharp edges on new defects or active defects.
I wouldn't imagine too much of an issue with it. The joists above are singels and the holes between them, so there are not walls or load supports above. Probably open floor above. Again, the smooth concrete indicates that there's no movement of the foundation. The sill plate wood is also in excellent condition. No cracking or loss of wood.
It looks way worse than it is. You'd be better off spending the money to encapsulating the crawlspace rather than repairing this issue.
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u/Cultural-Ad-6825 3d ago
Y’all are crazy. Yes plumber is an idiot but insert a $150 steel post and you’re done.
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u/Iminurcomputer 2d ago
Another redditor would be willing to trade some nice support logs for that post.
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u/Available_Leather_10 2d ago
Came here to offer up some random tree branches I found.
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u/Mythraider 3d ago
Yeah is a shit job, but its an easy fix ( not that im saying the owner or whoever the contractor is has to do it), gotta be firm and hold payment till the plumber fix it.
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u/No-Secretary-1441 3d ago
Was your plumber named Mario, by chance? Dude loves smashing bricks.
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u/Adamson_Axle_Zerk 3d ago
I’m an architect, u can sue
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u/I_SHIT_A_BRICK 3d ago
I’m named sue, you can me.
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u/dandee93 3d ago
I am me. You can you.
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u/vajeen 3d ago
You are you. Me am too.
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u/Kholoblicin 3d ago
No, I am Yu. He is Mi.
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u/Asleep-Test8642 2d ago
One of my favorite Rush Hour scenes lolol
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u/greenrivercrap 3d ago
Architect? Ask an engineer.
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u/jaleneropepper 2d ago
Structural engineer here, can confirm this is fucked.
My boss always said the plumber is the most dangerous guy on site because he has tools to fuck up ANYTHING.
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u/TertiaryOrbit 3d ago
Roughly, how much would it cost to fix something like this?
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u/buddhistredneck 3d ago
$10,000+ for the engineer and the foundation re-work.
$2000+ for the plumbing rework
Complete ballpark estimate
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u/DrDerpberg 2d ago
Am I missing something here? It wouldn't cost $10k to throw some props in to keep things from collapsing while you pour back in the missing concrete. It looks unreinforced but even if you did the whole shebang with dowels and bonding agent I have trouble imagining this costing half that much.
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u/RecsRelevantDocs 2d ago
For what it's worth google says foundation repair in general is typically around $2,250 and $8,600, so at least seems like the right ball park.
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u/bubsdrop 2d ago
The other guy's quote for $10k is insane. There was already a gap in the foundation for access to the crawlspace, a bit of damage on either side of it will not cost that much to repair and is not an urgent structural issue.
Have a plumber fix those pipes then get under there, support the joist with a jack, cut out the damaged pieces, reinforce and build a form, pour, let set, remove jack. Maybe $5k total if you have all the work done professionally. Plumber would probably charge you more than the concrete guy.
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u/atln00b12 2d ago
Even just stacking concrete blocks is fine. A foundation repair specialist might build an under framing with girders and 4 to 6 concrete block piers. No one should really need to tear anything out though. They might pour some new footers depending on the load specifications but most likely they just use cap block or precast composite footers.
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u/1992Prime 3d ago
Holeee fuk, that’s insane.
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u/1amBATMAN 3d ago
That wasn't done by a real plumber proof; no coffee cups or Dunkin bags any where
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u/Vinny-Ed 3d ago
A little redirection of the pipe wasn't there enough space already below the wooden beam. A core cutter would have been an alternative.
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u/NopeNotUmaThurman 3d ago
Call me silly, but I don’t think they were licensed. This seems like a “I know a guy that can do it cheaper” situation.
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u/240z300zx 3d ago
You only need to know two things to be a plumber, and structural integrity of block foundations ain’t one of them!
Water runs down hill and lunch is at 12 btw.
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u/thescouselander 2d ago
That's tradesmen for you. If you get a builder in to put the support back they probably cut through the pipe and rebuild the support.
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u/scunliffe 3d ago
I swear someone had a piece of pip strapping they folded up like an accordion… then decided… “damn! I need that!” And unfolded it to use to hold that pipe up.
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u/notmikearnold 3d ago
Sounds like someone is going to be paying their commercial liability deductible soon.
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u/uknowtalon 3d ago
Guess the plumbing company is on the hook for whatever it takes to make the repairs to restore the structural integrity of the building
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u/Sm0key_Bear 2d ago
Sucks for the plumbers. Those repairs are gonna be expensive AF. Either that or the lawsuit will be if they try to dodge responsibility.
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u/anothermassacre 2d ago
That's messed up. I hope the plumber has liability insurance, I see a claim coming.
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u/-FormerChild- 1d ago
Somebody just got a new demo hammer and was looking for an excuse to use it.
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u/Double_Bass6957 3d ago
It’s hard for me to believe a sane coherent person did this.