r/politics • u/Murky-Site7468 • 4d ago

'Chill The F**k Out': John Fetterman Urges Democrats To Stick With Joe Biden | The Pennsylvania senator reminded panicked Democrats on Friday that he too had a bad debate once, yet he went on to win his Senate seat.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-debate-john-fetterman_n_667ea850e4b0415858d6a2f1
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u/LuchaLutra 4d ago edited 4d ago

Don't tell me to chill the fuck out bro, our party is propping up a man who has NO BUSINESS running a second term as our "strongest" choice.

You had a bad debate once...that is correct. You also said some really dumbass things...but your "bad debate" happened in your 50's...not your fucking 80's.

This clown man...stop defending this shit and trying to unpanic the party members. We have EVERY RIGHT to be freaking out, and it's YOU and the party's fault for not giving us someone with more of a fighting chance instead of a placeholder.

Like form a god damn huddle with your other seating colleagues and figure this shit out, NOW, not later. America ain't got no time for a later. Biden needs to be out on a train ride somewhere enjoying his retirement, not scaring the ever loving hell out of millions of people with the realization that Trump can actually win. He is NOT as strong as he needs to be, stumbling over his words and looking like he is about to pass out from exhaustion. We can't have that shit being portrayed all over the country and the world. We can't.

So tired of this moving goal posts namby pamby bullshit. The utter audacity. Learned not a damn thing from RBG, or Feinstein. You guys are going to kill this dude because you are too damn lazy and scared to step up to the plate.

Fucking cowards. Grow a damn spine and fight for our country. I didn't give 5 years of my life to this country for ya'll to play tiddlywinks and play grab ass. Give me some semblance of security that our country is even worth it anymore, because I believe it is, but I ain't seeing that fire from ya'll.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/iuthnj34 4d ago

He was talking about abortion, his strongest stance for the party but then went to talk about immigration and 3 year old killed by it which was his weakest point.

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u/LonelyDilo 4d ago

Lol that’s not what happened. He was talking about how republicans always bring up women dying from immigrants to fear monger but never talk about the women that die from their abortion policies.

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u/WimpTheBraveDog 4d ago

Damn, if only he could have said that other than mumbling through a nonsense answer.

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u/LonelyDilo 4d ago

He did say that. You should probably listen next time instead of watching sound bites after the fact. Even Jon Stewart was misrepresenting what Biden said. Lost a lot of respect for him. Guess he’s fake too.

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u/WimpTheBraveDog 4d ago

"Look, there’s so many young women who have been – including a young woman who just was murdered and he – he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by a – by – by an immigrant coming in, and they talk about that. But here’s the deal, there’s a lot of young women who are being raped by their – by their in-laws, by their – by their spouses, brothers and sisters, by – just – it’s just – it’s just ridiculous. And they can do nothing about it. And they tried to arrest them when they cross state lines."

I watched the debate with my own two eyes and unlike some, I didn't have my head in the sand.

Trump is a terrible wannabe-dictator and should never be president. If Biden is his opponent on the ballot in November then Trump is going to win.

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u/LonelyDilo 4d ago

Yeah, I’m not sure Biden can win either, but what he said was obvious. Im not sure what’s confusing you.

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u/ReddittorMan 4d ago

Are you defending the above quote by saying the message was obvious???

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u/Holycity 4d ago

Absolutely delusional 

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u/Front_Appointment_68 4d ago

Delusion

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u/LonelyDilo 4d ago

Im factually correct. Cry about it.

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u/GringottsWizardBank 4d ago

He sounded like he was having a stroke. The words that were actually coming out of his mouth are of little consequence because you could barely understand him.

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u/LonelyDilo 4d ago

Except I understood him perfectly well.

I didn’t realize Biden was this bad off, and I’m debating within myself whether it’s a good idea to replace him. However, what the commenter above me said about that particular Biden response is just pure disinformation.

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u/Philip_Marlowe 4d ago

I don't really think it's disinformation. That response from Biden was terrible. He was a trainwreck up there - far worse than almost anyone expected him to be.

He literally could have, and should have, turned to Trump and said "Did you just say that doctors in Virginia are aborting babies after they're born? I know it's hard for you to tell the truth about anything, but even you should be able to admit that's a complete lie."

Not that it matters for me - I'm a firm believer in the Democratic agenda and I live in Illinois, so my vote essentially doesn't count because we're so blue. That said, if you were on the fence about voting, Biden's performance last night was not inspiring.

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u/LonelyDilo 4d ago

It’s literally disinformation because he misinterpreted Biden’s response. A lot of people are doing it.

That doesn’t mean Biden’s responses were good.

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u/Deep-Thanks-963 4d ago

I heard him say some nonsense about how the first trimester is between the woman and her doctor, but the third trimester is between the woman and the state. I don’t know exactly what that is supposed to mean, can you clarify?

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u/LonelyDilo 4d ago

Not sure i don’t remember that exact moment from the debate

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u/Sensitive_Yam_1979 4d ago

Ya know he spoke English.

We shouldn’t need people to translate what he was trying to say.

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u/Hyndis 4d ago

I needed subtitles. I honestly couldn't understand what Biden was saying half the time.

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u/LonelyDilo 4d ago

I’m not translating anything. What he said was obvious. I really don’t get it.

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u/boomshtick676 4d ago

It's been a terrible thing what you've done the fact is that the vast majority of constitutional Scholars supported Roe when it was decided supported Roe, and that was this idea that they're all against it is just ridiculous and this is the guy who says the state should be able to have it we're in a state we're in six weeks you don't even know whether you're pregnant or not but you cannot see a doctor have your and have him decide on what your circumstances are whether you need help the idea that states are able to do this is a little like saying we're going to turn civil rights back to the States -- let each state have a different rule. Look there's so many young women who have been, including a young woman who just was murdered, and he went to the funeral uh the idea that she was murdered by an immigrant coming into they talk about that but here's the deal there's a lot of young women are being raped by their by their in-laws by their by by their spouses, brothers, and sisters. It's just ridiculous and they can do nothing about it and they try to arrest them when they cross state line.

Those are the words that came out of Biden's face last night. Please point to any section where it's obvious Biden is calling Republicans' hypocrisy.

You're putting words in his mouth that he never said.

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u/LonelyDilo 4d ago

Im not putting words in his mouth it’s just obvious what he meant.

He brought up the immigrant murdering women and then he says “they talk about that,” and then precedes to say how women are raped by their family and they’re arresting the women for trying to get abortions in other states.

It’s so easy to piece together I’m actually dumbfounded that we’re having this conversation

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/LonelyDilo 4d ago

I’m amazed you didn’t think this response out. Is your issue the lack of verbal eloquence or the content of the message?

The former is obvious, but the latter is actually a good point. They only care about women when it’s convenient for the political ideology

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u/PHATsakk43 North Carolina 4d ago

Look, 2016 is just the recent one. 2000 was a literal joke. In name of “decency” the DNC refused to make a deal out of Bush v. Gore.

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u/naetron 4d ago

The major lesson from 2016 shouldn't be "the DNC should have given us someone better." It should be, "look what happens if you let Trump become President."

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/Sensitive_Yam_1979 4d ago

And after that debate he’s going to surge.

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u/nzernozer 4d ago

And as of this morning, he's leading the polls.

To be clear though, not because of the debate. There aren't any post-debate polls yet, we won't see them for a few more days.

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u/thrivingintheblue 4d ago

Polls. Do. Not. Matter. Jesus Christ lmao

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u/pax284 4d ago

yes and that thought process is why they are running Biden again...and he is going to lose.

Because fuck actually fucking trying to find a candidate that the people actually fucking want to vote for. that's hard. Just through up Biden because hey, it isn't Trump and that is the only qualification needed.

Being able to talk for 2 minutes without rambling and confusing yourself. Not a requirement.

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u/naetron 4d ago edited 4d ago

they are running Biden again

Who is "they"? Biden is the President. He is the one choosing to run. If you are referring to the DNC, then you are misunderstanding some of the basics of how this all works. There is no one that can force Biden to step aside.

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u/zzyul 4d ago

They may not be able to force him to but they better be in his ear and the ears of all his inner circle explaining to him why he needs to agree to not accept the party nomination and run in November. This is RBG all over again. Her reluctance to step down cost us Roe. Biden’s reluctance may end up costing us our democracy.

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u/naetron 4d ago

I'm leaning towards agreeing with all of this. I think Biden has been a great President. I also think he has been a pretty terrible Presidential candidate and it's starting to worry me.

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u/SweatyLaughin247 4d ago

As is often the case in this sub, most people have no idea what the DNC is, what it does, and who staffs it.

It does make a convenient scapegoat though.

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u/pax284 4d ago

the DNC.

You are correct no one can stop him from running again.

Just like no one can stop you or anyone else from running, doesn't mean that you or Biden should have gotten the full weight of the DNC behind you just cause you aren't Trump.

The DNC easily could have primaried Biden, but they chose not to because they knew he would look exactly like he did last night, even against friendly opponents. Then we are told not to believe our eyes, and he isn't actually an octogenarian who can't speak for 2 minutes without confusing himself.

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u/naetron 4d ago

Biden controls the DNC. You are saying he should have primaried himself. It makes no sense.

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u/pax284 4d ago

no, no he doesn't.

The head of the DNC is Jamie Harrison. Who is surrounded by all the normal C-level exec types in a committee.

To suggest Biden is in solo control of the DNC is laughable.

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u/naetron 4d ago

How do you think Jamie Harrison got his job? Lmao

And I didn't say "solo control".

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u/pax284 4d ago

Biden controls the DNC.

I claim you suggested it, cause you did.

Yes, he was appointed by Biden. Are you suggesting that he should be loyal to Biden over the party or the country because of that? Sounds very Trumpian of you.

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u/kmarple1 Texas 3d ago

And how do you prevent Trump from becoming President? You give us an opponent that people are actually willing to vote for.

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u/winnie_the_slayer 4d ago

"Just chill out bro"

Malignant Normalcy

Toxic Positivity

"Escalation Management"

Why have so many Democrats shoved their heads into the sand? Are they a party of ostriches? They refuse to acknowledge threats and suffering and insist on gaslighting everyone into inaction.

The economy is terrible for a lot of people. Deaths of despair are way up. Guns are not the biggest problem in America.

Democrats need to wake the fuck up, face the very significant dangers the world is facing, and deal with those issues, instead of telling everyone they are just crazy and need to chill out and do nothing. Terrible messaging from Fetterman and the rest of the dems.

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u/vikingdiplomat 4d ago

a huge chunk of the democratic base are just a bunch of navel gazing pussies these days, only interested in scoring points and whining "but but but doesn't anyone care that the Rs are hypocrites!?! why didn't we get 'em"?

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u/BuckeyeForLife95 4d ago

I saw a tweet once that was like "The Democratic Party right now is just yelling at the ref "but the rulebook says dogs can't play basketball" while a dog dunks on them over and over".

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u/vikingdiplomat 4d ago

ruff game

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u/SuperSecretSide 4d ago

Guns are far from the biggest problem in America, but it should still definitely be on the agenda. Outside of licensed, HEAVILY restricted ranges, I've seen a gun in the wild once in my entire life, a decade ago and belonging to a police offer who is in the highest echelon of policing in my country, they make up around 0.01% of the country. Outside of that, a few farmers with shotguns and our equivalent of SWAT, guns don't exist. Unsurprisingly, our gun related deaths per capita are much, MUCH lower than the US.

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u/Alocasia_Sanderiana 4d ago

While I agree guns could be on the agenda it's essentially political suicide in the US currently. Not only are the Democrats reliant on purple State voters who are more mixed on the topic, but if there's any hope to switch states from red to purple (Texas or Florida) then best not to mention guns at all. We have lots of other issues we can focus on in the meantime that require political will and are more broadly popular.

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u/FairPudding40 4d ago

The biggest problem facing this country is that everyone thinks they know more than everyone else. It's a disease.

And yet here we all are, shouting our opinions onto an internet message board.

That said, I'm guessing you will find the republican party more of your liking. They, too, believe the world is burning.

(Fundamentally, this is a difference of opinion. People aren't wrong or ostriches for disagreeing with you. I'm sorry your life sucks, but statistically things *are* better in many important ways and they continue to improve. Children are less likely to be abused now than at any point in history, for instance [though the pandemic did fuck with that a bit because all domestic abuse / violence went up]. Crime is down which is also awesome. We have in our pockets more information than our great great grandparents were exposed to their entire lives -- and it's all just... there for our use. I made about ten grand in the stock market this week doing almost nothing [I'm playing with learning day trading and the market's been volatile -- started with $500 a few weeks ago]. Gay people can get married. There really is more opportunity now than at any point in the last few hundred years for most people. There's still plenty to improve, but the vast majority of us are objectively better off than we would have been had we lived 100 years ago.)

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u/RCranium13 4d ago

This exactly, but I've seen it before - weak ass candidates my whole life. Carter couldn't win, but still, he was the incumbent.

Then there's Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry. Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry had no guts in their campaigns. No one was excited about them. H. Clinton and Biden are the same, they do not drum up excitement, they are just better than the complete shitshow the other side is running.

How can we not have someone that destroys Trump on that stage? How? I feel like a 12 year old child could have beaten him.

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u/bytethesquirrel New Hampshire 4d ago

Gore

He won 2000 fair and square. The same people behind project 2025 stole it from him.

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u/RCranium13 4d ago

True, but he won it barely, and not enough to count when it needed to matter.

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u/bytethesquirrel New Hampshire 4d ago

and not enough to count when it needed to matter.

Except that the Florida ballots were never fully recounted.

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u/RCranium13 4d ago

Exactly, not enough to count, unfortunately.

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u/bytethesquirrel New Hampshire 4d ago

Because not all the votes were counted.

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u/TheCwazyWabbit 3d ago

Unfortunately not enough counting if I recall.

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u/DrGoblinator Massachusetts 4d ago

Excuse you, my extremely Greek parents were psyched about Dukakis 😂

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u/RCranium13 4d ago

The uber powerful Greek-American voting block.

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u/DrGoblinator Massachusetts 4d ago

I mean look my people started out pretty strong 💪

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u/Final_Rest7842 3d ago

They’ve been resting on their laurels since inventing civilization though, you must admit.

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u/SolidLikeIraq New York 4d ago

They need to immediately figure out the top 10-15 replacements and do a media blitz tearing apart everything that Trump said. Everything. Go after him brutally with no hold back at all.

Whoever gets the best responses from the Democratic electorate gets pushed forward as the candidate this year.

Biden could hardly stand or respond to easy layup lies. If the Dems lose this election, the entire world changes dramatically.

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u/thosewhocannetworkd 3d ago

It’s inevitable man. There’s no stopping this at this point.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

[deleted]

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u/cloud9ineteen 4d ago

Did you respond to the wrong comment? The person you replied to is recommending replacing Biden as candidate

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u/Obvious-Mechanic5298 4d ago

Yeah appears so. Think it was the one higher

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u/PruneObjective401 4d ago

This. Fetterman is fairly young, and Pennsylvanians trusted that his cognitive impairment would continue to improve. On the other hand, Joe Biden is in his 80's...

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u/medic914 Ohio 4d ago

I couldn’t upvote this enough and your frustration I think is what most pragmatic democrats are feeling. I understand that a sitting Senator might not want to bash his party’s sitting president the day after a horrible debate but he could spare us the fake indignity when there’s a crisis right in front of our faces that’s easy to see.

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u/lordlanyard7 4d ago

A president is more then a man, it's an administration.

Chaotically swapping candidates, 4 months from the election portrays this administration as weak, not just the man.

What yall are suggesting leads to Trump winning. Trump already has 45% of voters, you're not going to rally enough people around a new candidate in 4 months to beat that.

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u/pluterthebooter 4d ago

Biden has been trailing in the polls all year. He’s had the lowest approval rating for any candidate at this point in their term. Nate Silver gave him a 60% chance to lose to Trump. This was all before the debate. 

We lose nothing by switching out Biden now. Virtually every Democrat I know is voting against Trump, not for Biden. Biden was already on track to lose and the debate sealed it. It’s the reason we have the convention, so we can remove an untenable candidate. 

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u/emh1389 4d ago

Yes we do lose. No party has even given up the incumbent advantage. Everyone you know is not an accurate sample size. Point out another moderate Dem that has the name recognition Biden has; has Biden’s reach especially with the Black community, their ability to unite the Democratic Party, has a decent record at passing legislation and working across the aisle. Who out there would be a strong candidate? Not Bernie. He’s too old and far left for members of the Dems. AOC? Not happening and she’s not old enough to run until October. Gavin Newsom? He polls poorly in his own state. I’ve looked through congress and didn’t see a person whom comes close to the strength Biden actually has. But still, you find someone and then redo every primary that’s happened, upsetting people who’ve already chosen Biden to be on their ballot, to undo all of Biden’s campaign efforts to get someone else. The cost would be astronomical just to get voters familiar with a new candidate’s name. You would split the ticket on confusion alone. How weak that must look to the republicans and such a field day for Trump.

Obama did poorly in his first debt people thought he’d drop out or lose the presidency. He rallied. Hilary did really well in her debates and lost. Biden has fucked up but he’s rallied before. Dark Brandon wasn’t just a meme. His experience is still valuable, and he and his administration are getting shit done.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/emh1389 4d ago

The DNC did not capitulate to their constituents when they wanted someone other than Hillary. And again when we wanted someone other than Biden in 2020. And the DNC won’t spend more money to campaign for someone else when Biden has good legislation under his belt. Have you forgotten the good he’s done? Is it worth nothing?

I don’t care about Biden blundering in his first debate in years. I’ll vote for that man’s corpse if it keeps that nasty ass rapist, convicted felon out of the White House. If the DNC doesn’t endorse another candidate and I doubt they will, I hope you stand by that vote blue no matter who.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/jggearhead10 4d ago edited 4d ago

Can we fellow lefties and democrats please put together a petition to the DNC to put pressure on Biden to gracefully bow out and endorse a strong candidate? At this point, this is all hands on deck. Look, I’d even put money on the line. IF you succeed in getting a viable candidate on the ballot - I will donate at least $500. This is too important.

The debate was an unmitigated disaster for the democrats and honestly an undignified showing for a man that has proudly served his country for decades. Let’s let Joe Biden have a dignified retirement and have someone with a spine that can call out Trump on his blatant lies and authoritarian platform.

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u/longtermattention 4d ago

Go check out the DNC lawsuit where they argued in court they don't have to listen to voters at all and can do whatever they want. The DNC doesn't give a shit what voters want/think.

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u/like_a_cactus_17 4d ago

I can’t find the clip now, but Jean-Pierre said something similar when she was asked about Biden losing support from the younger voters over an unpopular policy Biden was pushing. Her comment essentially was “that’s unfortunate, but our job is to govern, not to convince or win over voters.” Like nope, in a representative democracy, you absolutely need to listen to your constituents first and foremost.

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u/vikingdiplomat 4d ago

"can we put together a petition" this is the problem with the dems these days. lol, just put in a petition and we can hem and haw about it like Gore 2000 for another 30 fucking miserable years.

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u/biaggio 4d ago

This. Does anyone know how to start grass-roots campaigns like this? I'm guessing hundreds of communities around the country would be involved.

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u/thosewhocannetworkd 3d ago

It literally can’t be done. They spent billions of dollars developing tactics and strategies to stop grassroots movements. They have herbicide for that shit. They view a grassroots movement by outsiders as a worse threat than losing to the other side

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u/Mysterious-Wasabi103 4d ago

No. You don't want the dude to bow out this close to the election. Stop doing the Republicans favors for fucks sake!

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u/jggearhead10 4d ago

Did you watch the debate last night? I had images of my grandfather struggling with words before my grandmother had to put him in a home. It’s sad but I’m afraid unless it’s 100% clear this was a fluke (which for an 81 year would be incredibly rare), he probably is not in a good position to run the country much less have the energy to wage the nonstop counterattack necessary to beat Trump.

Keeping him on the ticket with the way Biden has been behaving in public would be the most softball win the republicans have had in decades. Should we have figured this out years ago? Yes of course! But here we are with the choice of a felon / pathological liar or an octogenarian that struggles with words and composing his facial muscles. Will I still vote for Biden if that’s how it ends up? Yep, I will because I’m not an idiot. If I were somehow undecided right now would I vote for Biden based on what I saw last night? Hell no.

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u/bytethesquirrel New Hampshire 4d ago

Did you watch the debate last night?

Did you watch this? https://youtu.be/HYghfyxtZnc?t=601

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u/jertyui 4d ago

The vast majority of the American people did not watch this, but they watched the debate.

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u/jggearhead10 4d ago

Yep, and as long as future debates can be during the daytime instead of prime time, he might have a chance.

Real talk - cognitive decline after sundown is common among the elderly (called sundowning). It doesn’t necessarily mean he has dementia (not going to give that theory oxygen), but cognitive function will decrease for some elderly people as their exposure to sunlight decreases. Biden can be spry in the daytime and still fumble words and act confused after sunset. His words were coherent and his ideas still good, but he was really fighting with his delivery.

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u/BatofZion 4d ago

No, but you see, the Democratic Party has a secret candidate who is much younger, charismatic, and is willing to jump into the race only four months before the election! It will be fine, changing ships mainstream. It’s not like anyone could have foreseen Biden getting old a year or two ago.

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u/No-Body8448 4d ago

You're a random Redditor, and I would vote for you over Biden or Trump. We really are in #LiterallyAnybodyElse2024 territory.

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u/BootyWarrior69USA 4d ago

Thank you!!!

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u/SaintNutella 3d ago

Period.

The democrats (specifically the politicians) are feckless. Shameful. I would even say immoral.

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u/thosewhocannetworkd 3d ago

Everything you just said also feels a lot worse when you realize they’re giving us this with a straight face and thinking we’re stupid enough to buy it.

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u/viviolay 3d ago

Thank you. I’m so fucking livid and if I hear one more person say “But but Trump” or “Blue no matter who” I’m gonna lose it.

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u/ImImmune2Gravity 4d ago

THIS! if the man had a single atom of honor he would have committed seppuku after that disgraceful showing last night. He needs to do the right thing, if he genuinely cares about democracy and the future of the country HE MUST STEP DOWN FOR THE GOOD OF EVERYONE.

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u/lime_coconut Alaska 4d ago

He must commit seppuku for one bad debate performance, really?
So dramatic babe.

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u/ImImmune2Gravity 4d ago

I calls em' as I sees 'em.

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u/lime_coconut Alaska 4d ago

You call for the death of public figures for slight missteps often then? How many people are allowed to survive on your planet? Only Mary Poppins?

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u/ireaditonwikipedia 4d ago

I agree. I don't know how anyone could have watched yesterday's debate and not at least be concerned.

Biden can still win and this debate will be largely forgotten in a week, but that was a REALLY poor performance. Why are they holding on so strongly to a candidate who clearly isn't the same person as 10 years ago and is struggling with poll numbers?

I understand the incumbency advantage but it's baffling at this point.

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u/koopa00 Oregon 4d ago

and this debate will be largely forgotten in a week

Normally I would agree but not this time.

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u/surrrah 4d ago

Forgotten by Biden though at least…

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u/Skiinz19 Tennessee 4d ago

Biden can still win and this debate will be largely forgotten in a week, 

Why are they holding on so strongly to a candidate who clearly isn't the same person as 10 years ago 

Because he can win and hes the dems best chances and hes the incumbent president. 

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u/ireaditonwikipedia 4d ago

I thought that a few months ago, now I am not so sure. This debate performance, his age, the bungling of the Gaza war, it's all really concerning. Trump is such a bad candidate and Biden barely landed a blow against him, especially on abortion which is arguably the strongest issue he has.

The Democrats have a lot of younger potential candidates waiting on the wings, you can't tell me that they are all undoubtedly worse off than Biden.

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u/Skiinz19 Tennessee 4d ago

And biden is apparently a sunsetting geriatric and trump couldnt get a blow on him. 

The other candidates arent worse off when it comes to speaking, but none of them have the expertise and experience Biden has. 

People are worried because this performance could let trump win NOT because of what a biden presidency would look like lol 

The simple remedy is to vote for biden/any dem. If you're worried about swing voters then you need to do some blitz grass root campaigning, regardless what biden says. Trump swayed swing voters. You think it was because of how great of an orator it was? Clearly not. There were large grassroot campaigns to win those votes. The dem political machine is still a machine and has to get into high gear now. 

If anything this has made me even more emboldened because trump was a trainwreck last night and bide is going to need all the help he can get.

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u/chaostheories36 4d ago

Just run loops of trump saying that Charlottesville was a hoax and that he didn’t sleep with a pornstar.

You don’t pay your lawyer $420k to hide a payment of $130k to a pornstar because you DIDNT sleep with her.

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u/not-my-other-alt 4d ago

The funny thing about defending Biden by attacking Trump is that those attacks all still work even if we replace Biden with another Democrat.

Newsome's unpopular in the midwest? Just run loops of trump saying that Charlottesville was a hoax!

Nobody's heard of Whitmer outside the rust belt? Just run loops of trump saying that he didn’t sleep with a pornstar!

Please defend Biden as a candidate without pivoting to Trump.

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u/Ok_Abrocoma_2805 4d ago

I agree. If Biden was already popular and had a lot of public goodwill, this debate would still have been flaming-bag-of-poop horrible BUT most of us wouldn’t be as worried as we are. Biden has the worst approval ratings of any modern president. Gaza/Israel has people all riled up - imo it shouldn’t be the reason to swing an election but my opinion doesn’t matter here, a lot of people care. The economy isn’t terrible but it isn’t great - look at all the recent layoffs, the opinion polls. Housing and food are objectively significantly more expensive than they were 5 years ago. How much of Biden’s fault all these things are don’t matter. People as a whole are feeling worried and unhappy and that doesn’t inspire huge masses of people to go “let’s keep things the same.”

1

u/processedmeat 4d ago

As a dem what has this debate changed for you?  

We know he was old, stuttered, and mumbled.

Your options are trump or Biden. Life sucks. 

15

u/goodbetterbestbested 4d ago edited 4d ago

It doesn't have to change anything about your individual planned vote for a Democrat, in order for 90 minutes of Biden feeding into his worst political liability, his age and apparent senility, to worry you that other people may not show up to the polls to support Biden.

"I will vote for any Democrat over any Republican, but I know that I'm not everyone, and this is a political disaster in the making" is a consistent and mature position. Good policies and good governance are not identical to good politics. Biden should step aside because Trump's victory is unacceptable and because Biden is no longer capable of being a good politician.

Conflating "this is my political position" with "this is the likeliest way to actually win power" is a mistake. Being able to speak publicly without coming off as doddering and incoherent is an important feature for a political candidate to have. Biden doesn't have it. Neither does Trump, frankly, but like it or not, it is a much bigger political liability for Biden. Is that unfair? Yes. Is it true? Also yes.

9

u/jleonardbc 4d ago

Or advocate for Biden to pass the torch to another candidate at the convention.

1

u/processedmeat 4d ago

If that was going to happened it would have been done by now.  Biden is the nominee.  

Your options are get on board or have a trump presidency.  The party doesn't care about what you want. 

3

u/Rebeldinho 4d ago

Then they will lose

3

u/not-my-other-alt 4d ago

So it's a repeat of 2016, then.

12

u/bestforward121 4d ago

Then I guess we’ll just lose. I’ll vote blue no matter who but do you actually think Biden has any shot at winning after that performance? After all he’s only getting older.

1

u/Angrbowda 4d ago

This will be the last election I vote blue no matter who. If the Party and the DNC do not realize they have massive issues that need to be fixed, that is on them.

They have 4 years to fix it

-1

u/Silvaria928 4d ago

I’ll vote blue no matter who but do you actually think Biden has any shot at winning after that performance?

This one debate does not erase the damage done to women's reproductive rights. This one debate does not erase the deaths that Trump directly caused because of covid. This one debate does not erase the blatant racism. This one debate does not nullify the felony conviction.

Within 10 days the media will be focused on the sentencing and this debate will be ancient history. Meanwhile, we will continue pointing out all of the above in our fight to make sure Trump stays out of the White House forever.

3

u/bestforward121 4d ago

The media and the voters have been hammering Biden’s age since 2020, and it has been his single biggest liability for years. If you think that debate performance is going to be forgotten then you’re a fool.

If I was a Republican strategist I’d be running clips of Biden from that debate every hour of every day.

1

u/Silvaria928 4d ago

If you think that on November 5th tens of millions of people are going to say, "Gee, I would have voted for Biden but for that one debate back in June", you are not thinking long-term.

We still have four months to go, four months of Trump saying and doing stupid things to turn people off. Four months that will include a sentencing and possibly at least one more trial. Four months of being reminded that he is already a convicted felon. Four months of being reminded that women are dying because of Trump. I guarantee you that Democrat strategists will be hammering that last two point home on a daily basis and we already have plenty of evidence that the abortion issue could very well be what kills Trump's chances at the White House.

People like you seem to forget that we're on the same side here, and there is literally nothing productive to be gained from name-calling.

2

u/bestforward121 4d ago

I hope you remember this comment when Biden loses to trump in November. We have a chance to replace Biden with someone who has a chance to win, and if Biden and the DNC drives us off the cliff while berating us for raising our concerns that he’s too old I’ll have to just step away from paying attention to politics for my own sanity.

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u/processedmeat 4d ago

I do, but they need to change how they are going about this.

I think we need to admit that facts don't matter.  People vote with their hearts not minds.

If trump wants to be tough in crime.  Hit him on his felony convictions and pending court cases.

Talk about his infidelity and lack of support from his wife to counter family values.

Bring up his bankruptcies if he claims he is a smart business man.  

Any time he says the word loser reply with like how you lost the 2020 election.

Dems are always pussies that refuse to fight. Time to attack Trump can't handle it. 

3

u/bestforward121 4d ago

Last night was Biden’s opportunity to hit trump with all of that, but he wasn’t able to string together a coherent thought long enough to land any of those barbs.

6

u/Jewish-space-lasers 4d ago

"Your options are get on board or have a trump presidency.  The party doesn't care about what you want. "

You have given the same option twice.

1

u/mud074 Colorado 4d ago

I hit voting age in 2016, and my entire adult life this has been these options.

"Get on board with our dogshit candidate, or have a Trump Presidency"

JFC

2

u/jleonardbc 4d ago

We'll see.

1

u/Mbrennt 4d ago

Biden is the nominee

No he's not. Convention hasn't happened yet.

1

u/processedmeat 4d ago edited 4d ago

For all intents and purposes, yes he is.  Unless he dies nothing is going to change 

1

u/Mbrennt 4d ago

So Biden isn't capable of changing his mind and bowing out before the convention?

0

u/rootz42000 4d ago

So get on board with a party that doesn't care what you want? 💀

-1

u/processedmeat 4d ago

As a said, what has changed

1

u/buisnessmike 4d ago

That's valid, I'd vote for a ham sandwich over Donald Trump. Assuming they're the two options, my vote hasn't changed, still Biden. However, I am frustrated by the apparent effort to gaslight everyone into thinking that Joe is fine, or that that debate wasn't a catastrophe of epic proportions. Joe Biden obliterated a significant degree of the confidence the general public had in him. He has never looked older, he missed several easy layups, and multiple times he had inane weird responses ("he has the morals of an alleycat", "we beat medicare", answering an abortion question with a story about immigrants and rape). The stakes are really high here, we can't f*ck around with letting the country fall into the hands of fascist traitors. If I had any advice to give the White House, it's to swallow your hubris and reevaluate what is best for the country. We cannot let Trump win the race, and the main opposition just shot himself in the foot

0

u/Rebeldinho 4d ago

It’s not acceptable to run Biden… the DNC is painting Trump as the end of democracy.. if they truly believe that and still run Biden then I seriously have to question if they’re acting in good faith

I can’t stand Trump but I’m not voting for Biden… the public is supposed to believe they have a choice in their leaders but Biden is so clearly mentally unfit no one can vote for Biden and believe he has a say in anything that actually happens. It’s straight up cruel they are humiliating this old man he needs to go fuck off and retire on the fortune he skimmed from the American public during his 98 years in Washington

0

u/chaostheories36 4d ago

My favorite inspirational quote: “Life’s a b*tch and then you die.”

1

u/bytethesquirrel New Hampshire 4d ago

https://youtu.be/HYghfyxtZnc?t=601

I'm not concerned at all.

0

u/TreebeardsMustache 4d ago

I don't think the performance was poor enough to justify the raw panic that has ensued. It wasn't great, sure, but it wasn't the disaster we're now told to believe in. Panic'd people aren't rational people...

1

u/ireaditonwikipedia 4d ago

It's not just debate in isolation. One debate performance doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

The issue is that Biden's biggest weakness is his age. This debate just magnified that by a huge amount. He's already behind in polling in swing states so it's hard to see how this helps whatsoever.

2

u/TreebeardsMustache 4d ago

It certainly doesn't help. No doubt about that. But 'not helping' isn't a reason to panic so comprehensively, as Democratic elites are now doing. The fact of the matter is that they are stuck between panic and cynicism, which is a potent recipe for further problems.

-1

u/Philly_Smegma_Steak Virginia 4d ago

Doesn't Trump also have a kind of incumbancy advantage?

2

u/pluterthebooter 4d ago

 So tired of this moving goal posts namby pamby bullshit. The utter audacity. Learned not a damn thing from RBG, or Feinstein. You guys are going to kill this dude because you are too damn lazy and scared to step up to the plate.

Exactly. I’ve been told for the past year that the fate of democracy is at stake this election. And this is the best the DNC can do to prevent a “fascist takeover”? This senile incoherent old man? 

If anyone tells you that Biden is our best shot to defeat Trump, I have a Succession quote for them;

You aren’t serious people

3

u/somegridplayer 4d ago

Fetterman doesn't have a spine or balls. Dude just does whatever lobbyists tell him to. Otherwise it's hollow comments like this one. He literally makes stupid ass fucking comments with no backing.

Fat Sinema is a one term senator who flip flops on his support for steel and fracking on a daily basis.

2

u/Purdue82 4d ago

Fat Sinema lol

I never heard that before

1

u/BootyWarrior69USA 4d ago

If this piece of shit can be elected anyone can

3

u/makeanamejoke 4d ago

biden is making the decision to stay in the race all by himself.

2

u/BullForBoth 4d ago

THIS. Biden ain’t getting any sharper. People should be very very afraid of what will happen if he stays on the ballot. The Democrats will lose and they will deserve it.

3

u/thesirensoftitans 4d ago

good thing biden has a whole administration behind him.

9

u/Angrbowda 4d ago

This is about winning the election. Who cares if he could be a good President if no one thinks he can do it?

0

u/thesirensoftitans 4d ago

Who cares if he could be a good President if no one thinks he can do it?

Some people think Trump could be a good president even though he has consistently proven them incorrect. Unfortunately, some people are morons.

7

u/Angrbowda 4d ago

Yeah, it is almost like the election is actually a huge knee jerk reactionary popularity contest. We should be making sure our candidates can get elected

-1

u/KopOut 4d ago

He is CURRENTLY president…

Seems like convincing proof he can do it to me.

0

u/Angrbowda 4d ago

But it is not convincing proof he has the stamina to do it over the next 4 YEARS

1

u/KopOut 4d ago

Do you think Kamala Harris would be better than Trump?

2

u/Angrbowda 4d ago

Dude. This isn’t about me. I am voting straight Blue this election. This is about optics.

1

u/KopOut 4d ago

I'm just countering the optics you are bringing up. I'm not saying literally you.

If a person doesn't think he can do it over the next 4 years, the question they need to answer is: "Do you think Kamala Harris would be a better president than Trump?" It's that simple.

0

u/cathercules 4d ago

He needs to win the election for that to matter. Keep in mind most people commenting here are going to vote, most people listening to Fetterman are going to vote. The people that won’t bother showing up to vote for one of the geriatrics are independents and first time voters. They’re not paying much attention to politics, they just see two old fools up on stage.

1

u/MrEHam 4d ago

Geriatrics if anything may do a statement vote for Biden since they’re likely struggling with their own attacks at their mental clarity.

2

u/HeadNaysayerInCharge 4d ago

lmao what a copout

-1

u/thesirensoftitans 4d ago

Better than the sycophants and criminals Trump hires. But ok.

4

u/HeadNaysayerInCharge 4d ago

And he’s going to get elected and put them back in power because people vote for president not their admin. 

This isn’t that fucking hard come on.

0

u/thesirensoftitans 3d ago

Nah.

0

u/[deleted] 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/thesirensoftitans 3d ago

I sure hope not.

I love that people's answer to a bad debate is "Put in someone new". Yeah, with 6 months until the election. That'll work.

I'm voting for biden.

0

u/bestforward121 4d ago

He’s been a good president, but his administration can’t debate for him. Biden is too old, and if he remains the candidate he will lose.

1

u/Junior_Gap_7198 4d ago

We could’ve had Bernie…

5

u/heartofappalachia 4d ago

The 82 year old? This is the problem. People refuse to vote for younger candidates in primaries.

2

u/Junior_Gap_7198 4d ago

Bernie is capable of putting sentences together. What young person are you referring to that was interested in challenging Biden?

4

u/makeanamejoke 4d ago

not really, no. he did not run in the 2024 primary.

-1

u/CjKing2k Nevada 4d ago

There was no 2024 primary. We were basically told there was not going to be a 2024 primary. We were also told that if there was a 2024 primary challenger, then whoever the Dem nominee is would lose.

1

u/makeanamejoke 4d ago

That's all true, biden wasn't going to lose the primary.

1

u/not-my-other-alt 4d ago

I think if we'd seen last night's Biden up on a stage with Newsome, Whitmer, Beshear, Pritzker, or any one of a dozen other Democratic Senators or Governors back in January, then yes: Biden would have lost the primary.

Last night's performance would be career-ending in any other circumstance, and there's no excuse for it.

Five years ago, Biden promised that if he beat Trump, he'd be a one-term President. What he knew then, and we all saw last night, was that he doesn't have four more years of the most stressful job in the world left in him.

2

u/makeanamejoke 4d ago

He never promised to be a one term president. That was just a bad headline that wasn't based on anything real.

-1

u/Internal_Prompt_ 4d ago

The Democratic Party is not democratic

1

u/Deep-Thanks-963 4d ago

He’s still too old. Why not AOC?

3

u/RCranium13 4d ago

Should've...

-2

u/Upset_Finger61 4d ago

OMG get over it we are living in the now! For goodness sake sack up and be united as democrats. The election is 5 months away we don't have time to reshuffle all this bullshit, we can do that next election after Biden wins. Have some faith and patience and vote blue.

2

u/Junior_Gap_7198 4d ago

“OMG get over it” - Master Politics Understander

-2

u/relentlessvisions 4d ago

While he’s only worked for 40 years, that’s because he’s an unqualified dead beat, not because he’s young.

We could have had Hillary.

1

u/Junior_Gap_7198 4d ago

Lmao you did have Hillary. She lost.

1

u/forceblast 4d ago

Couldn’t agree more. We sweep this under the rug at our own peril.

0

u/PennStateFan221 4d ago

Democrats haven’t had a spine in way too long man. They used to fight for the common people. Now they’re just shills. So are republicans but I don’t expect much outta them.

0

u/equience 4d ago

I canceled my continuing donation of $50 a month to Biden‘s campaign on ActBlue. They ask for a reason and you can click other and explain your reasoning and I had to say that Biden is unfit to be president. My fervent hope is that this is a way to get through to our president that he must step aside and let a candidate run that can beat Trump.

6

u/KopOut 4d ago

So he’s unfit to be president despite him currently being president and doing a pretty good job?

-2

u/equience 4d ago

I will not dispute that he has done a pretty good job. He got a lot done in his first two years, but the man I saw on that debate stage is not the man I voted for in 2020. I assume that at this point the staff that he has a assembled is carrying most of the load which I’m OK with for the rest of his term. I just think it’s unreasonable to think that he’s up for another four years of perhaps the most difficult job in the country. There is no shame in realizing that your capacity diminishes as you age. Perhaps 80+ years old would be OK for someone else but not for Biden.

1

u/bytethesquirrel New Hampshire 4d ago

https://youtu.be/HYghfyxtZnc?t=601

Seems fit to me.

1

u/equience 4d ago edited 4d ago

Yes, he can read a script. I have to admit, though he was pretty animated and that crowd was amazing. I just wish any portion of that had showed up last night.

1

u/Creepy_Category1043 4d ago

I love you for writing this up. Hahaha. I feel exactly the same way.

-1

u/goddessnoire 4d ago

There is literally a convicted felon running and you’re worried about Biden stumbling. The bar is already low. Why do we have to stand on something when Republicans are rallying behind a literal criminal.