r/Invincible • u/BadgerSoft344 Green Ghost • Mar 29 '24
Here a quick question what is your opinion on Shrinking Ray being a girl in the show COMIC SPOILERS
I honestly don’t care but I’ve seen people complaining about in online
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u/WithoutAnyUsername Mar 29 '24
Race/Gender swapping not very well known or nothing characters will always depend on the writing, The Boys and Invincible show did the writing part right and i've never seen anyone complain and i've seen a lot of people liking these changes. The only time people will complain about it is when they butcher the writing or it's about highly known characters.
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u/hav0k0829 Mar 29 '24
The boys isnt faithful to the comic anyway i heard. There is more of a plot in the boys show while the comic is just really edgy.
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u/BiDiTi Mar 29 '24
The people saying that tapped out during the second trade.
Not defending the first 10 issues, to be clear…but the book changes DRAMATICALLY following the introduction of Vas.
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u/Invincidude Allen the Alien Mar 29 '24
I'm kinda sad we didn't get to see Hughie explaining what happened to Robin to Starlight, leading to Starlight revealing she's a superhero, leading to Hughie absolutely flipping his shit on her for what he thinks is a sick joke, before noticing she's now floating about a foot in the air.
"I'm so sorry, Hughie."
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u/BiDiTi Mar 29 '24
As far as I’m concerned, The Boys starts with Annie begging Hughie “Please, PLEASE be nice to me.”
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u/iHateThisPlaceNowOK Omnipotus Mar 29 '24
Literally the only time where the on screen adaptation is better than the source material.
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u/Pharabellum Mar 29 '24
Indeed. I actually prefer Victoria Newman (?) in The Boys instead of Vic the Veep in the comics. She (the actress) has a very particular way to be terrifying and underline nefarious, specially with her power set. The casting was mostly on point in that show anyway.
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u/BadgerSoft344 Green Ghost Mar 29 '24
You’re better than most of the MK fanbase.
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u/WithoutAnyUsername Mar 29 '24
What do you mean
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u/BadgerSoft344 Green Ghost Mar 29 '24
There are rumors(seriously it’s not even confirmed yet) that in the next game the minor character Cyrax will return genderswaped(as a girl) and the MK fanbase just keeps complaining about how that this one change will ruin the entire franchise(not joking)
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u/ThunderBlack14 Mar 29 '24
Because Cyrax is a old character with a lot of fans, he just isn't used much by Ed Boon.
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u/CaCa881 Battle Beast Mar 29 '24
Eh that one’s a little different . Whenever you have an established character that has gone unchanged for literal decades , then yeah some people are gonna have a problem with it . It doesn’t matter how little the change actually affects the plot to them .
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u/RangoDjangoh Mar 29 '24
I wouldn't say Cryax is a nothing character nobody cares about. I mean I know that robot dude and I never played MK.
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u/Afraid_Union_8451 Mar 29 '24
Not an MK fan but that does sound stupid, I've heard of Cyrax so he probably isn't a minor character
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u/hell_jumper9 GDA Troopers Mar 29 '24
and the MK fanbase just keeps complaining about how that this one change will ruin the entire franchise(not joking)
Make him a hot woman so half of the worried fans will do a 180 lol
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u/Ghost_Mouse__ Mar 29 '24
If it was Capcom like how they did Seth in Strret Fighter 5 who looks amazing then yes people would be happy but if it’s like Janet Cage in MK1 who looks very meh then no thanks
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u/taskmaster75 Mar 29 '24
Huge MK fan here, Cyrax being gender swapped after 30 years is dumb and unnecessary to be honest, he's a very very popular character and not as minor as Shrinking Ray is in invincible, in general he's far more popular than shrinking ray, all they cyborgs in MK are fan favorites and klassics
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u/Surfing-millennial Mar 29 '24
Smh they made Frost a sick cyborg and they still can’t be happy
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u/phatassnerd Let me break it down for you Mark Mar 29 '24
You forgot the people that complain about because they’re whiney little bitches.
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u/Nemisis_007 Allen the Alien Mar 29 '24
Would
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u/Daiguey Mar 29 '24
Have you not seen that scene in the Boys?
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u/Acidsolman Mar 29 '24
I was watching that scene and fuck I don’t mean to be explicit but it made me VERY uncomfortable feeling down there
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u/AlistairN37 Mar 29 '24
The dick hole scene ?
Also which character from the boys has been gender swapped in the TV show ?
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u/Strong_Schedule5466 Mar 29 '24
Firstly, it was unnecessary to remind everyone of that fucking scene, now I can't unsee it
Secondly, iirc they gender-swapped Greg Mallory, Stormfront and Victor Neuman
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u/HumanOverseer I’m mentally unstable and Omni-Man is hot Mar 29 '24
I have
Regardless, would.
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u/Tarmac-Chris Mar 29 '24
Sex/race swapping is highly dependent on the character writing and placement. But in this case, a nothing character was race swapped into a female almost nothing character. Makes almost no difference.
I will say though, her being a woman in the show made her (almost) demise a little more visceral. Might be sexist to feel that way, but it was effective.
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u/constantcynic1 Mar 29 '24
“race swapped into a female”
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u/KatWaybright Show Fan Mar 29 '24
that's one thing i appreciate in this show- doesn't matter if you're a guy, gal, or enby pal. you can and will be brutalized.
plus, viltrumite hands are rated e for everyone! how nice of them to make sure nobody feels left out! maybe viltrum isn't so bad.
is this is true gender equality? i think this is true gender equality.
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u/Broken_drum_64 Mar 29 '24
Basically this... to my mind it doesn't matter if character is race, gender or sexuality swapped unless part of character arc is dependent upon what they change (or if they fail to consider the implications of them).
It can also help if they change the character slightly to add extra detail based upon what they've changed but only if it doesn't overshadow/significantly alter the original text. e.g. changing amber to be black might have informed their decision to have her help out at a soup kitchen in Titan's neighbourhood and it simply adds detail rather than removing anything from the adaptation.
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u/WalnutSizeBrain Mar 29 '24
What I like about the writers is that they listened to the feedback about Amber and made her much more tolerable in the second season. They didn’t pull the cop out that some production groups do by accusing the fanbase of hating her because of the race change alone. I was pleasantly surprised.
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u/Alakazzzwhat Mar 29 '24
I wasn't aware everyone felt the same about her. God she was freaking annoying.
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u/Harp_167 Mark and Eve Mar 29 '24
Oh yeah, everyone hated her in s1. She’s one the most hated side characters of all time. But most would agree with me when I say that s2 amber has dramatically improved my opinion about the character. I was actually upset by their break up in the new ep
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u/LexeComplexe Mar 29 '24
This is exactly how I feel about it. It isn't inherently a bad or good change on its own. It all depends on how it does or doesn't inform the story
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u/ThunderBlack14 Mar 29 '24
I don't care they changing Amber because she is voiced by Zazzie Beets, and work that she looks like her voice actress, also, i didn't knew the character before the show.
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u/OkDingo4956 Mar 29 '24
Nah it's not cause she's a woman, it's cause of the specific woman VAing for her. Gray Delisle is incredibly talented and experienced and between the animation of her expanding before being crushed and decompressing and her guttural crunchy sounds it just really sold the moment.
- comics Ray just got swallowed, no crunch at all. I'm show only so I can't say that much but largely having seen the comic scenes that inspired the show scenes so far I much prefer show Rae. She seems to have more to do, more to suffer and learn from, and again, Gray Delisle (VA for monster girl, Kate, Azula from ATLA amoung other things).
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u/Mountain-Cycle5656 Sinister Invincible Mar 29 '24
Both of them barely qualify as “characters” so who cares?
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u/BadgerSoft344 Green Ghost Mar 29 '24
Well i heard Amazon couldn’t acquire several popular characters so that’s why they kept Rae alive to have her return and replace on of said characters so who knows maybe she’s develop more a personality.
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u/Thomassaurus Mar 29 '24
Why wouldn't they have the rights to certain characters? It's not like there independent books, there all the same property.
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u/X_MudkipZ Mar 29 '24
Image Comics is a creator-owned company, which means that all the writers and artists retain their media rights.
From Image Comics own FAQ
I believe some characters where not made by Robert Kirkman so now they can't use those characters. They also changed from Science Dog to Seance Dog.
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u/Ekillaa22 Mar 29 '24
Tek Jacket is another one which I’m not sure how that’ll work cuz didn’t he play like a decent role in the comic book?
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u/DepartureDapper6524 Octoboss Mar 29 '24
He does have a decent role, but it’s nothing that isn’t easily replaced or overwritten.
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u/wimpymist Mar 29 '24
But they aren't all owned by Kirkman. Some are shared and have appeared other places
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u/Blood4Blud Mar 29 '24
Tech Knight is owned by the creator of The Boys and was in Invincible for a few key issues.
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u/NonameB4ndit Mar 29 '24
You sure you’re not thinking of Tech Jacket?
Cause the Boys comic wasn’t under the image comics publication. It was under Dynamite
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u/MARATXXX Mar 29 '24
No, they are owned by kirkman, at least partially, as they’re image comics characters. But they’re part of other licenses that amazon hasn’t paid for.
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u/JeremyR2008 Octoboss Mar 29 '24
Some of them are, though. Like Brit or Astounding Wolfman. In fact Cecils first comic appearance wasn't even in Invincible. Hell even Spawn exists in the Invincible universe.
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u/JeremyR2008 Octoboss Mar 29 '24
Also in one issue of Invincible we see a cameo from Mark's universes versions of Rick and Shane from Walking Dead.
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u/ThunderBlack14 Mar 29 '24
That's not a problem at all, since The Walking Dead is also made by Kirkman.
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u/JeremyR2008 Octoboss Mar 29 '24
I know I just really liked that cameo when I saw it and wanted to mention it
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u/InvinciblePLUSAmber Mar 29 '24
I read the comics and don't think I noticed. I love The Walking Dead. What issue is that?
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u/YakuzaKaru Mar 29 '24
They have the rights to Invincible, but not every image comics character that happens to also show up in Invincible
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u/Olin_123 Mar 29 '24
Image comics is creator run, so even though there was a bunch of cameos from fellow Image Comics series, Amazon would have to go to each individual rights holder to get permission.
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u/seejaybee97 Battle Beast Mar 29 '24
There actually are some spin off character in invincible that have their own books and were made by different people than just kirkman
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u/HorsNoises Mar 29 '24
Astounding Wolfman, Brit, Tech Jacket, and Science Dog all had independent books.
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u/Pupulauls9000 The Immortal Mar 29 '24
How Image Comics work is that all characters and properties are completely owned by their original creators. There were several characters from Image that appeared in Invincible that aren’t owned by Robert Kirkman.
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u/Locem Mar 29 '24
We would have seen a new character named "Brit" at the end off the Lizard League massacre if that were true.
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u/ArthurMorgan694 Omni-Man Mar 30 '24
It doesn't matter. Some characters were not made by Kirkman. Some are from a different comic (Tek Jacket).
The same situation was with that weird Gotham show. They got the right to make a story about gothem, but were forbidden from using the Batman ir the Joker. So they wrote around it.
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u/Garlic-Rough Mar 29 '24
I am simple man. I see girl with glasses. I am fine.
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u/HRRB Mar 29 '24
How does she shrink her glasses though
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u/Garlic-Rough Mar 30 '24
Maybe same material as the suit. Idk how that works with the glass part tho.
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u/Thatonedregdatkilyu Mar 29 '24
Doesn't really matter tbh. My logic about race/gender swapping is that it has to make the original better. And well, I like new Rae's design better.
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u/AlunSagara Séance Dog Mar 29 '24
I was skeptical at first, but she turned out to be Shrinking Bae so that’s dope
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u/Intelligent_Creme351 Omni-Drip Mar 29 '24
Ray was a nothing character in the books, but as Rae, she has killer design, and gets to actually do more in the future.
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u/fioplasm D.A. Sinclair Mar 29 '24
I like women. I agree there should be more women.
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u/Loud_Leading_4718 Mar 29 '24
Honestly the gender swaps they have done I think have done a really nice addition to the show, the only character that they changed that annoyed me was amber, she was such a dick in the first season. so happy they are finally moving forward into marks real relationship with eve
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u/7_Rowle Machine Head Mar 29 '24
I honestly think it makes her cooler? Like the original shrinking rae was just some generic white guy with no personality but they made her sort of a hermione granger type in the show, smart, fast and small. I suppose they could have done it if Rae stayed a guy too but something about making her a smart woman rather than a smart man appeals to me more.
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u/SessionDefiant4020 Mauler Twins (Original) Mar 29 '24
she didnt do much in the show never readed comics but this dosn't really change much does it? if it does dont spoil it
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u/MimikyuIsHot Mar 29 '24
He's the same the comics, in fact Shrinking Ray does get eaten by Komodo and dies there, doesn't even try to expand
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u/Saduolf The Immortal Mar 29 '24
Times have changed (for the better) and now it's got more sense to balance male and female characters. Characters like Shrinking Ray or Green Ghost didn't have to be male, so they've been changed. As you said, there's almost no difference.
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u/ProfessorEscanor Mar 29 '24
It's fine. It better balances the team line up and that's about it. They have hardly done anything in the show to warrant hating the change. (Although she probably will have a bigger role later on)
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u/kjm6351 Allen the Alien Mar 29 '24
I don’t care about the gender change but her design definitely sticks out a bit more
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u/zorfog The Mauler Twins Mar 29 '24 edited Mar 30 '24
Good change imo.
The comics show their age a bit with certain things like gender dynamics, gay jokes, etc. For example most of the female characters in the comic being super thick and sexy. Mark and Eve saying “this is so gay” when taking William flying (as hilarious/unharmful as that joke is)
So I’m fine with many of the changes made to the show. Rae being gender swapped, William being gay and not dating Eve at the beginning, Amber’s character being more interesting and less of a basic damsel trope, etc
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u/PS3LOVE Comic Fan Mar 29 '24
Same opinion as green ghost being a girl in the show.
Don’t care, most the characters are male anyways and it’s a very small supporting role with no impact to the main storyline really.
Also I feel she has a better costume design in the show and doesn’t look like a walking wojak meme.
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u/Neospood Mar 29 '24 edited Mar 29 '24
I don't have any issues with it, but I'm not gonna thirst over her either. I do like that it makes Season 1's Guardians roster's gender ratio equal, but that's really it.
I'm more interested in how she's gonna develop as a character, since while I do like the few bits we've seen from her (and I love how creative she could be with her power), she's still not a very interesting character in comparison to all of her teammates.
I like the idea of her and Rex bonding over their trauma, whether platonically or even romantically. And seeing her contemplate quitting the hero gig could also be interesting. There's a decent amount of directions the writers can take her in, and I have some faith that they'll do it right.
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u/SadakoFetishist Olga Mar 29 '24
If the race or sex isn't integral to a character, it can be changed and just needs to be generally well written.
Also (female) Shrinking Rae is so hot PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP PLAP 💢💢💢💢
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u/SaggySausage69420 Mar 29 '24
I dont mind because i saw the show first, but it might bug me if i readbthe comic before. Either way she is pretty useless as a character.
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u/LaughingIsAwesome Mar 29 '24
She relatively has a small role in the Invincible universe. So it honestly doesn't matter but I did think to myself "Why did they gender swap?"
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u/BadgerSoft344 Green Ghost Mar 29 '24
She’s probably going to have a bigger role in the future since she survived heck maybe she’ll unlock the power to grow like Antman that would be awesome
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u/Lilmagex2324 Mar 29 '24
I never read the comics so I dunno about her counterpart and Rae is all I know. What I can say though is would it have changed anything? At least in the anime she has like no personality and rarely gets air time. She is a back round character which while sucky makes her genderbending even more questionable.
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u/seejaybee97 Battle Beast Mar 29 '24
What do you mean? Ray can be a guys name. Ghostbusters has a character named Ray
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u/awt1990 Mar 29 '24
Indifferent.
With some characters a race or gender swap can impact their arcs or one of their storylines, with most minor characters this is less of an issue.
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u/domiy2 Mar 29 '24
I think the show has shown they can do gender and race swapping to a good effort. I think writers have learned now how to do it correctly. I think it's done wonderfully in house of the dragons. I think the recent example of wrong has been shaggy, but I think theirs more than just race swapping for that. Like making him mix with a black dad could lead to good social commentary that is modern.
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u/Stingra87 Mar 29 '24
I like it. We need more superheroines, especially those with strong personalities that make them stand out.
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u/KingKaos420- Mar 29 '24
Totally indifferent about it. It makes no difference to me, or the character, really.
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u/F7RD Spider-Man Mar 29 '24
The only thing I dislike is the costume change, I think the comics design would’ve suited her just fine
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u/TedTheReckless Mar 29 '24
My only problem with the gender swap is that they killed off dude ray then spared fem ray.
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u/BadgerSoft344 Green Ghost Mar 29 '24
They only did that because they needed more characters to replace the ones that can’t appear in the show due to legal reasons
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u/Medium-Science9526 Comic Fan Mar 29 '24
Indifferent, Shrinking Ray was inconsequential enough that making him a woman wouldn't change the plot as say someone important like Eve.
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u/False_Adhesiveness40 Mar 29 '24
I always prefer keeping characters accurate in appearance and sex but honestly idc much about side characters.
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u/UGAke Tether Tyrant Mar 29 '24
I say swapping around on minor characters is fine. They race-swapped Amber, and she is, ultimately, a minor character.
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u/kalxto Debbie and Mark Mar 29 '24
If done right, when gender, ethnicity, sexuality is not a important part of the character, its totally fine to change
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u/holdmybewbs Mar 29 '24
Because Ray is such a small character that doesn’t go very far in the comic. Literally who cares lol
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u/Voice_Nerd Mar 29 '24
I forgot Ray was originally a dude, but I really don't mind. It's a significantly minor character
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u/Joeman180 Mar 29 '24
I mean the guy in the book is a throw away character, maybe the show shrinking ray will take the place of a lot of the characters they can’t legally use in the show. So overall the changes will probably make for a more interesting character.
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u/AvailableAttention39 Mar 29 '24
She looks like one of my old friends now! Makes me a bit nostalgic.
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u/TableOdd4689 Mar 29 '24
in general race/sex swapping doesn’t matter to me unless the attribute your swapping is important to the character, like making mark a woman would undermine some of his (future) plotlines or making Debbie not Korean would undermine details like the Korean wedding ducks. But with characters like William, Amber, and Donald, swapping them to something else wouldn’t have much effect on plot
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u/VengeancePali501 Mar 29 '24
Did she have any lines prior to season 2 episode 5? I swear I don’t remember her voice. Except in tryout she says “oh yeah” or something
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u/Pikachuckxd Mar 29 '24
Shininking Ray wasn't relevant as male and she still isn't.
The only reason to care about her is how she almost die and how she survive the thing that kill the male version.
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u/BadgerSoft344 Green Ghost Mar 29 '24
She’ll probably be relevant in the future.
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u/marcvisal Mar 29 '24
You mean that that character is even more boring? I dont want to say that a characther being female makes them more interesting, but FUCK SR seems even more cheap and brainlessly made in terms of character design.
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u/Own_Accident6689 Mar 29 '24 edited Mar 29 '24
From what I remember I didn't catch any part in wich his penis was integral to the plot so, a fair change I think.
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u/Shadow_Master8 Mar 29 '24
Only thing I don’t like they changed is her death. Would have been better if she just got chewed up immediately-
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u/Interesting-War1055 Mar 29 '24
Honestly I don't mind it, i really love her accent and attitude and don't think it would've worked the same with a man
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u/sickostrich244 Mar 29 '24
I mean the comic and tv show characters always had a minor role so doesn't feel like it makes much of a difference either way
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u/mombtobi Mar 29 '24
The girl design is better but I really don't care. And if girls feel more represented it's fine for a sidecharakter to be genderswaped
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u/bulltin Mar 29 '24
Makes sense, Kirkman has said many times if he rewrote the show today ( which he kinda is) he’d ad a lot more diversity ( which he’s doing) cuz it’s easy when writing a lone to fall into the trap of writing based on a perceived normalcy based on yourself ( I.E. writing mostly white and/or male characters unless there’s a story based reason for the characters gender to be different. So I see no issue with this, it didn’t hurt the characters story in any way and makes a more diverse cast than the comic, so I’m all for it.
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u/sloppytoppyzombie Mar 29 '24
It’s alright, spoiler but it won’t matter for that long anyway
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u/VANSMAN69 Mar 29 '24
I remember SR existing in the comics, but not a single line that he said. It's the same way with her in the show. The swap seems insignificant, to me, the same way all the swaps with the original Guardians seemed to have been insignificant.
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u/quirked-up-whiteboy Mar 29 '24
Shes such a small character i literally dont care
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u/jarronbrown Mar 29 '24
Well in the comics we barely got to even learn about Rae before he died so it didn’t really matter. However since Rae apparently lived in the show it’s gonna leave a lot more room for new ideas and storys so I’d say girl. (Plus Girl Rae is hot)
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u/nreal3092 Nolan Grayson Mar 29 '24
i couldn’t care any less, shrinking ray in the comics was so forgettable for me i forgot he was male when watching the series lmao
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u/Monkey_King291 Duct Tape Man Mar 29 '24
The character wasn't very important in the comic, so this change works pretty well imo
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u/Leighgion Mar 29 '24
Don’t see any problem.
Whenever you have a gender or race swap, you just need to ask if the swap cost anything and positive or created anything negative. I need no negatives here given how minor the character is, and at least the small positive that the change helps gender balance the team a little so it’s not a total sausage fest.
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u/Queasy-Insurance3559 Mar 29 '24
Low opportunity cost for doing the switch, personality is the same or improved upon in the show.
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u/Quetzatcoatl93 Mar 30 '24
I actually like her (find her cute) I was so worried for her on the last episode
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u/Livid_Necessary2524 Mar 30 '24
as someone whose only seen the show, I love her design. I really like that she has princess peach lips. I like her Northeastern accent. Her ponytail. The glasses. I was so glad she ended up being alive 😭
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u/ronnie_bronson Space Racer Mar 30 '24
I was kinda hoping she died, it makes the lizard legue fight not impactful
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u/Volfaer Allen the Alien Mar 29 '24
A throw away character that made a small (heheh) impact in the story before dying was turned into a, well, still somewhat irrelevant character, but that survived the gruesome fate and can be used for later arcs. So an absolute win.