r/politics • u/chatoka1 • 4d ago

Undecided Voters Say They Now Support Joe Biden After Debate

https://www.newsweek.com/latino-voters-donald-trump-joe-biden-debate-election-1918795
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u/Jackinapox 4d ago

I wonder if it's because Trump ignored all the questions and spent his time blaming other people for his failures.

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u/nice-view-from-here 4d ago

Immigrants. Abortion? Immigrants. Inflation? Immigrants. Democracy? Immigrants! National debt? Immigrants, dammit!!!

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u/nevarlaw Arizona 4d ago

And Joe had and easy af answer on immigration too… Biden admin supported the bipartisan bill that would have strengthened processes to better catch these illegal killers and rapists BUT TRUMP SAID NO DONT PASS IT. I mean, how cut and dry can it possibly be? But Biden had a helluva time getting that point across just as much as trump hammered the immigration lies. Smh

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u/trippinfunkymunky 4d ago

This is what blew my mind. So many conservatives have no idea Trump had Mike Johnson kill that bill in Congress so Trump could run on immigration.

It amazes me how little so many voters actually know about what is going on. Biden had the opportunity to drive some truths home but seemed too exhausted to be effective last night. I couldn't even understand what Biden was saying half of the time.

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u/BatManatee 4d ago

Dems are so incompetent at messaging. Most Conservatives don't even know that this bill was presented. They need to have every Congressperson going to every press outlet demanding action/explanations from Republicans.

Scream that border security is important from every megaphone that you can reach, just like the Rs do. Pick out like 3 strong takeaways from the bill ($X billion for border security, supported by A/B/C, and incorporates the Republican plan), and repeat them so often that it is unavoidable. Question specific Republicans: "You said yesterday that we are putting America in jeopardy, so why are you stopping us from getting this funding for border security?" Call them out when they do their "immigrant scare" tactics, reverse it on them.

Basically do what Jon Stewart did with the medical support for veterans. Own the news cycle, do a full court press, get the soundbites. Buttigieg is like the only Democrat that knows how to do this, and it is like Republican playbook 101. It's embarrassing how poorly the party uses the modern media to get their message out.

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u/meatball77 3d ago

It's annoying that the best media messaging the past eight or so years has been from The Lincoln Project which is a bunch of conservatives who hate Trump and the MAGA movement.

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u/HVomni3805 3d ago

"Dems are so incompetent at messaging."

They've got a tremendous media apparatus that dwarfs what the GOP has. If they can't figure out messaging then they're too incompetent to be in power.

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u/BatManatee 3d ago

Not a fair comparison at all. The Democratic "media apparatus" is just ordinary journalism. As the saying goes, reality has a well documented liberal bias.

There are not any prominent news groups equivalent to the propaganda machines on the right like the Newsmax's and OAN's of the world that have significant followings. Hell, Fox News was literally created to give conservatives more control of the narrative during the Nixon years. And to be clear, the left shouldn't have those, either--those propaganda machines are killing our democracy.

Another challenge the left struggles with is the "big tent" concept of the party and purity tests. The Democratic party covers a much larger diversity of ideas than conservatives, for better or for worse. Leftists and Neo-liberals are much more different from each other than say MAGA republicans and traditional republicans.

Part of why they struggle with messaging and unity is because the same message hammered home might draw support from Democrats in the south, but anger Democrats in New York. So the different Congressfolks have competing stakes. Take the immigration example I used: If Joe Manchin took the technique I mentioned, he'd gain support. If AOC took the same position, she'd lose support. Versus the republicans saying "More guns, more Jesus, the scary brown people are coming to take your jobs" gain support everywhere. They can have unity on their messaging because they are against things, usually straw men that they set up using their platforms. So they get their marching orders and the whole party and all the constituents are on board the next day.

That said, the Democrats absolutely can, and NEED TO, do better. They are terrible at messaging. But they have a much harder position to work with than the GOP because they stand for something, and everyone wants that something to be achieved in a different way.

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u/LordOverThis 3d ago

Corporate media has spent three and a half years clamoring for a repeat of the Trump years because he was ratings gold.

They aren’t going to let any messaging through that might hurt profits.

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u/Dry_Divide3903 2d ago

Your party owns the media lol

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u/Consistent_You6151 3d ago

He is clearly tired from all the campaigning while Trump sat his fat ass in court for weeks. Biden has some sort of upper respiratory infection. He looked like he was on cold n flu tablets, whereas Trump was on adderal! Firing up with complete lies and answers totally unrelated to the questions!

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u/barto5 3d ago

Trump’s a buffoon, there’s no doubt about that.

But Biden rambled, lost his train of thought several times and just looks too old and feeble to take on the hardest job in the world.

I’ll still vote for him because he’s not Trump. But it’s a pretty sorry state of affairs when we have to choose one of these two men.

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u/meatball77 3d ago

I do at least have faith in Biden's administration. He could be puppeted for all I care, the people he has working care about the country more than themselves.

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u/elriggo44 4d ago

Would you say that Mike Johnson….had to abort the bill on Trumps request?

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u/Evening_Aside_4677 3d ago

If a voter cared about boring things like policy and laws they wouldn’t be undecided and wouldn’t be voting for Trump. 

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u/LordOverThis 3d ago

Bruh, we can’t get people to realize that renewable energy directly tells Saudi Arabia and Russia to fuck off, or that the CHIPS Act is a direct national security bill aimed at China…and those are things actually rolling out.

You think Americans are going to comprehend the ramifications of something that didn’t roll out?

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u/ScreenCaffeen 3d ago

The few Trump supporters I know don’t want to know the truth. They are willing to swallow his lies and grievances. You can present them with articles and evidence and they don’t want to believe it or even look at it.

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u/Outrageous-Lab9254 2d ago

He was sick, and it showed. It was painful to watch.

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u/NoNote5931 3d ago

We know about it. The bill sucked and was killed. A president can close the border at any time.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/Kyxoan7 3d ago

way to fake quote me

i said i made an example of the way dems craft bills from my phone because i was not at pc able to sit there and re research it for the full list.

But I listed a piece I remember at the end.

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u/barto5 3d ago

You admitted you made up was in the bill. You weren’t misquoted you’re just full of crap.

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u/Kyxoan7 3d ago

I said this is what dems do… meaning the theory and practice of what they do… not the specific bill contents.  They name a bill something, in my example I called it Veteran Medical Care Act which had nothing to do with the actual bill being talked about….

sorry if it was confusing.

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u/No_Painter_9673 3d ago edited 3d ago

Are you talking about the border security bill that had bi-partisan support and was authored by Democrats and Republicans?

Did you know Katie Britt helped author the border security bill. The same Katie Britt who's a terrible actress but provided the Republican rebuttal to the State of the Union and tried to lambast Biden for something the Republicans torpedoed after Boy King Trump said Republicans shouldn't support it. How about all the Republicans who didn't even bother reading the bill?

Here's a quick summary of why it wasn't supported. Border security is an advantageous issue for Republicans and supporting a bill under the Biden administration takes that leverage away. So at the end of the day the Republican Party doesn't care about border security as much as they do about winning this election.

The principled party that once was the so called "Party of Morality" and "Party of Personal Responsibility" is no more. It's Trump over everything, party over country, and you know this.

I'd respect Republicans a lot more if they'd just come out and say it now. They're all in on total war and the only thing the party stands for is winning at all cost. I'm tired of hearing all the contradictions and flawed logic in their so called principles.

If the GOP truly did care about border security, they'd reach across the aisle and solve the issue together with Democrats for the good of the American people even before election. But they won't do anything substantial until they've won back the White House so they can take the credit for solving the issue.

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u/Kyxoan7 3d ago

It had 60 billion in aid to ukraine

It had 14.1 billion to isreal

It stripped US funding for UN relief to palastine

It allocated 2.4 billion to fund security in the red sea

It sent 1.9 billion to Taiwan for anti china munitions

The bill was in total 118 billion dollars

Why did you leave out all the BS when you wrote me an essay telling me I’m wrong and that it is republican posturing for the election, when the bill, like most bills are full of democrat bloat and bullshit with a fancy name.

The majority of the bill had NOTHING to do with our mexican border.  It was a way to try to push funding to ukraine and isreal.

If you are for that, fine, but don’t act like republicans are anti border security, they just don’t want a 314 page bill for 2 pages of actual relevant content.  

PS you also left out tons of immigration policy change that repubs wouldn’t support.  It was not a “lets build a wall and deport illegals bill” FYI

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u/No_Painter_9673 3d ago edited 3d ago

If Republicans are so serious about fixing this issue, where’s their ideal version of the bill and an alternative course of action this year?

You know they won’t do anything until after the election is over. It doesn’t help them politically. Why did they kill a tweaked version of the bill last month and offer no alternative?

I didn’t necessarily know you were Republican but I was primarily addressing the GOP and its politicians many of which aren’t even reading these bills they’re killing.

I’m an independent by the way, and if you want your guy to win you need to convince people like me why the GOP deserves my vote. And it won’t happen because your guy sat around for 3 hours on Jan 6th and did nothing to stop the storming of the capitol. And the GOP did NOTHING to prevent the orange clown from running again. Spineless. It's a dumpster fire of a political party.

I've even voted Republican before years ago but it’s a party that lost its way the moment Trump took it over. Reagan wouldn't even recognize it. Full of a bunch of unprincipled hypocrites now. Let's say we care about border security but do nothing about it until we win the election.

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u/SonofRobinHood North Carolina 4d ago

And then went off on medicaid like a looney. "I beat medicaid", then his mic cuts off giving Trump an easy zinger, even if it was lies. That was painful to see.

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u/AlabasterMogwi 4d ago

I wonder if they were worried that argument would suggest Trump has more control over policy as an ex-President than Biden does as a sitting one

They might worry that wouldn’t play well either

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u/lonnie123 4d ago

Biden brought it up, trump just said you don’t need a bill because I did it without one

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u/malrexmontresor 3d ago

Where Trump is dishonest in that statement (among others) was that the courts allowed it when Trump was president, but blocked Biden. The courts reasoned that because Trump enacted his policy under the auspices of a health emergency caused by the pandemic, Biden couldn't continue to use the same policy when the pandemic emergency was officially over.

Any EO issued would be subject to legal challenges, while a bill would allow him to enact the desired policy freely. Where Trump and Biden differ is that Trump would likely enact his whim regardless of any court order or legality. He doesn't care about laws.

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u/lonnie123 3d ago

A great example of how 5 seconds of bullshit would take 1 minute to debunk

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u/Big_Island7323 3d ago

Have you been living in the US for the past four years?

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u/lonnie123 3d ago

Even if they hadnt, What would that matter to anything that they said?

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u/your-mom-- 4d ago

Biden prepped for a week and all he had to do was hammer the point that Trump blocked the immigration bill and is the reason Roe v Wade was appealed. Bam, drop the mic.

Trump has so many policy flaws outside of his obvious character flaws and yesterday was a disappointing performance in hitting on any of it.

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u/Big_Island7323 3d ago

Oh,my gosh. Really?! Did you ever hear the old saying, "The pot calling the kettle black"?

Have you been living in the US for the past four years? What's happened to your savings, investments? Let's go to gas prices. Let's go to treatment of our military. Let's go to groceries. Let's go to our tax dollars feeding, housing, medically caring for, and legally representing immigrants. Let's go to our tax dollars funding foreign wars. And you're harping on Trump's character flaws? OMG, we're doomed.

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u/AffectionateCrow3698 3d ago

Biden loves them here…he wanted this it’s so easy to see. If he didn’t and it was Trump’s fault, It might help if the illegal aliens (yes, that is the correct term) didn’t get debit cards with 10k on it, hotel rooms for free, let out without bail after assaulting police officers, our healthcare for free, and told they are a victim so deserve everything we have.

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u/DNTTRDDLP 3d ago

Maybe if the Biden administration didn’t leave the borders wide open and let us be invaded by migrants we wouldn’t have as much of these illegal killers and rapists and migrant crimes that we are having that’s been happening under Biden and his administration not under Trump and his administration. We are being invaded like never before. He also put Kamala in charge of the border and she didn’t do a single thing Texas and these states has to take matters into there own hands and that’s not even helping. The blood is on Biden’s hands and his administrations hands. I hope those families that are suffering loss of a loved one sue the crap out of Biden and his administration cause I would.

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u/Candid-Winner2986 3d ago

HOW ABOUT FINISH BUILDING THE WALL............... AND NOT ALLOW ANYONE ELSE IN TO THE USA, UNLESS THEY APPLY TO COME IN TO THE USA LIKE MY PARENTS DID!!!??????????? How about that?? Or JUST keep sending them to California, Chicago, New York and Michigan?? I like that I dea!

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u/HVomni3805 3d ago

That's only an easy answer because the press aren't willing to call him on it. We're 3 years into Biden's border debacle. The fact that he barely woke up to try and figure out this issue on the eve of the election is something worthy of ridicule. But again, that would require a press that would be willing to call him out.

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u/Business-Writer-7874 4d ago

As long as Mayorkas is running the show there is no border. Fock that douche