r/Invincible • u/RevolutionaryGrape11 • Dec 16 '23

Do you think the Guardians Of The Globe could have won if Red Rush had stuck to just bailing the others out of death and hadn't attacked himself, or do you think everyone was doomed no matter what? They did put up a great fight even after he was removed, so I think it's plausible they could have. DISCUSSION

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5.4k Upvotes
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2.4k

u/Gerry-Cann Dec 16 '23

If green ghost went intangible then there was nothing Nolan could do

1.2k

u/Ezenthar THINK, MARK! THINK! Dec 16 '23

Part of me wonders how her powers work, like can she keep up beintg intangible for a really long time or does it use up considerable energy/resources? If she could only do so for say like, a few solid minutes at most before becoming exhausted and needing to recharge, Nolan could essentially stalk her until she became vulnerable.

628

u/ChemicalBasis9838 Dec 16 '23

By that time she could expose him, and how can he stalk her when she can just phase and go anywhere in the world probably underground

322

u/megrimlock88 Dec 16 '23

If it is a resource drain I don’t think any sane person will be trying to phase through the planet or floor when they run the risk of getting rendered vulnerable while passing through something and getting stuck or worse

Also you cannot just phase through a planet you’d end up permanently stuck at the core with no way out since the force of gravity would only get stronger the closer you get to it

373

u/M_LeGendre Dec 16 '23 edited Dec 16 '23

Actually, gravity at the center of the earth is zero. The strongest point is halfway from the surface to the core, after that it starts getting weaker and becomes zero at the center, because you are being pulled with the same strength in all directions, so it cancels out

ETA: Wikipedia has a cool graph showing the value of gravity at different depths, it only gets around 20% higher at maxpoint

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_of_Earth#/media/File:EarthGravityPREM.svg

77

u/megrimlock88 Dec 16 '23

Damn that’s fascinating also my bad I had no clue earlier

25

u/Some_Ebb_2921 Dec 16 '23

So.. Hollow earth theory is BACK on the table, baby!!!

Now if I could only blend that together with flat earth...

7

u/ManaMagestic Dec 17 '23

Empty Box Earth Theory. You're welcome.

1

u/AwkwardInitiative188 Dec 21 '23

Read that in David Koechners voice.

2

u/abouttogivebirth Dec 17 '23

A flat earth that is just the top layer of existence, "hollow earth" one level below, then some other mythical lands eventually leading to the 9 rings of hell.

1

u/nepo5000 Allen the Alien Dec 18 '23

So cylinder earth theory

2

u/HeliumBurn Dec 16 '23

To be extra pedantic, if you really could phase through solid matter and incur no drag, You would go into orbit around the planet's center of mass.

Assuming you didn't drop from the bottom of the Marianas Trench, and you can hold your breath a really long time. Then the odds are good you would end up above ground level on a subsequent orbit.

2

u/MangaVentFreak13 Dec 16 '23

No gravity, just pressure. Still dangerous.

2

u/tenshi39 Dec 17 '23

wait, you mean Godzilla's Hollow Earth is actually scientifically accurate gravity?

1

u/TrueHero808 Dec 16 '23

There’s no way it exerts 0 gravity how is that possible. Literally everything with mass exerts gravity.

3

u/M_LeGendre Dec 16 '23

It's not that it exerts 0 gravity, but that the resulting force is 0. Imagine you are between 2 objects with the same mass, at the same distance from you - both objects will exert the same force on you in opposite, and it will cancel out, so you will feel 0 resulting gravity

2

u/TrueHero808 Dec 16 '23

makes sense thank you

1

u/Extermindatass Dec 17 '23

Essentially, you'd be trapped though.

3

u/TrueHero808 Dec 17 '23

nah i would just leave but yeah most people probably would be tho

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1

u/dontfoolmetrice Dec 20 '23

Time to train like vegeta only 20 percent bet

25

u/ChemicalBasis9838 Dec 16 '23

Not saying she should phase through the earth’s diameter I’m saying she should phase into the ground and come out somewhere else where Nolan can’t find her, shouldn’t be that hard just out of sight he doesn’t have xray vision or superheating to be able to track someone down like homelander or Superman

2

u/megrimlock88 Dec 16 '23

I’d say that’s fair except the guardians hq is shown to be pretty secluded so on foot is a terrible idea and using a place is a one way trip to getting smashed by Omni man

4

u/GrimResistance Dec 17 '23

Well green ghost can fly, possibly they could fly under the ground?

1

u/AngryNerdBird Dec 17 '23

Except he could just plow through the ground after her.

13

u/666Emil666 Dec 16 '23

You wouldn't get stuck at the core, earth is not a black hole. It'd take like 8 minutes to go from one pole to the other, your acceleration and speed would increase until you reach the core, then they would start to decrease until you reach the other side at exactly the same speed you were when you started the fall (assuming no friction)

3

u/ShwiftyShmeckles Dec 16 '23

Gravity wouldn't let you fall the whole way through the earth.

9

u/TheGupper Dec 16 '23

According to conservation of energy, yes it would. You start out with potential energy while you're at the surface, as you reach the center all that potential energy has been converted to kinetic, then back to the same potential as you emerge at the surface on the other side

-3

u/AlphaCureBumHarder Dec 16 '23

That would get you to the center of the earth. You would need to provide propulsion to leave the increasing gravitational pull of the earth as more of it is behind you.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

Nope. The earth isn't perfectly spherical and doesn't have a perfectly even distribution of mass, so there's wiggle room.

But assuming it was both, you would keep speeding up to you got to the center, then keep your momentum and speed and slow down until you got to the other side with the same speed you started with: 0.

2

u/666Emil666 Dec 16 '23

And where did all the kinetic energy go? Have you discovered a flaw in the foundations of physics and are therefore deserving of a Nobel prize? Or could you just be wrong about this one because you haven't thought about it

9

u/dvasquez93 Dec 16 '23

In a vacuum it would.

2

u/chancesarent Dec 17 '23

A villain in Batman Beyond met that fate.

https://dcau.fandom.com/wiki/Sneak_Peek

2

u/notchoosingone Dec 17 '23

they run the risk of getting rendered vulnerable while passing through something and getting stuck or worse

https://i.imgur.com/xjFA1hM.png

2

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '23

Can't she fly?

2

u/Orgasmic_interlude Dec 17 '23

I think…. We have to presume that all phasing powers must sidestep gravity because yeah you would be dropping pretty fast after even a split second.

65

u/AlexArtsHere Dec 16 '23

I’m inclined to ask “so what?”. From everything with seen in the show so far, the only thing capable of getting any damage to stick to Nolan is another Viltrumite. If anything, being exposed early probably would’ve made things worse since Mark wouldn’t have had time to get to grips with his powers before Nolan just goes nuclear on the place.

14

u/ChemicalBasis9838 Dec 16 '23

You’re think as someone watching the show, not as someone in it, or as someone in the guardians

5

u/AlexArtsHere Dec 16 '23

I don’t really understand how that would change the process of events that would follow. I’m not saying it’s illogical for the Guardians to try and expose Nolan given what they know but I just think it would’ve made things a lot worse than how they ended up being.

-4

u/ChemicalBasis9838 Dec 16 '23

My point is about what she could’ve done about her situation, how tf would I be arguing as if she knows the grander scheme of things?

5

u/AlexArtsHere Dec 16 '23

I’m not expecting you to? Just saying that I don’t think things would’ve changed for the better if she’d managed to get away from Nolan.

-3

u/ChemicalBasis9838 Dec 16 '23

Ok, and my argument is about what she could’ve done in her situation with what she knows

-6

u/ChemicalBasis9838 Dec 16 '23

Ok and? she would’ve still survived the fight, idk why tf you’re arguing about something else. If the viltrumites conquer earth so what? The universe would still be extinguished in a heat death or something?

1

u/JB_Big_Bear Dec 17 '23

But when asking ‘what if…?’ we still need to take into account what we know about the show. Otherwise we won't come to the proper conclusion.

1

u/hurtlingtooblivion The Mauler Twins Dec 17 '23

The guardians put him in a coma. War women's mace alone absolutely rung his bell.

2

u/AlexArtsHere Dec 17 '23

Aight I'll cop to that, I never went back to rewatch S1

2

u/awesomesauce615 Dec 17 '23

Well the main issue is, if they can't stop him what does alerting the world do?

2

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '23

They should have really realized that exposing him was the most important thing. If they couldn't stop him it was possible someone somewhere could. But if he won the fight he'd just go down the list from there.

​

But as superheroes they have a tendency to lean towards overconfidence.

35

u/No_Poet_7244 Dec 16 '23

My head canon has always been that she still needs to breathe, and being phased out stops her body from interacting with any matter—if she stayed phased out too long she would suffocate.

25

u/Sponge56 Dec 16 '23

But wouldn’t that mean she wouldn’t be able to see either? Since light can’t reach her eyes and would just go through them

16

u/No_Poet_7244 Dec 16 '23

Light has not mass, it’s not matter. But yeah, the whole invisibility thing usually implies a bending of light, so perhaps that would be true regardless.

25

u/CategoryKiwi Dec 16 '23

The usual secondary-powers problem. Invincible is full of them. For example, Mark holding up that building during the Chicago fight doesn't make any sense - he would have just punched right through the wall. You can't prop that much mass up on a brick wall in the surface area of a two human hands. So he has the usual superman-secondary-power of distributing force if he wishes.

Green Ghost being able to see and breathe despite being intangible is a pretty standard secondary-power situation.

3

u/BloodMethAndTears Dec 17 '23

Its touched on by Nolan that Viltrumites can create their own leverage, maybe that extends to things they hold/are in contact with. At least that's how I rationalized it in my head anyways.

1

u/Bro-lapsedAnus Dec 17 '23

Is that your head cannon or just the exact same thing from My Hero Academia ?

1

u/No_Poet_7244 Dec 17 '23

Uhhh I don’t know actually, good question. I have only seen the first season of MHA, and it’s been years 😅

1

u/Bro-lapsedAnus Dec 17 '23

Lol it's the exact way they nerf their version of this power.

2

u/No_Poet_7244 Dec 17 '23

I don’t think I knew that, but with my memory it’s possible I did. It’s the most logical way to nerf a power that stops you from interacting with matter.

1

u/Anjunabeast Dec 18 '23

Ahh the Lemillion drawback

9

u/GogitoDblPlayer Dec 16 '23

Seems op to just be able to be like that forever i would say its the basic for how ever long she can hold her breath

2

u/My_redditaccount657 Dec 17 '23

Spoiler if you hadn’t seen episode 0 of season 2

the powers of the green ghost seem to just work when the user feels like it. The green ghost of the episode had no issue phasing a dude into the floor so it’s likely they could just phase the organs in Nolan’s body, so maybe the green ghost of season 1 had panicked or Nolan himself was to fast for her to process what was going to happen

1

u/hurtlingtooblivion The Mauler Twins Dec 17 '23

I think that's how I read it. He throws the batman guys corpse at her and she is so shocked she doesn't react quick enough and gets a hand through the face. Doesn't she even say "oh my god"?

1

u/My_redditaccount657 Dec 17 '23

Yeah she does 😔

2

u/CoolGuyBabz Dec 17 '23

That was a pretty cool detail of the fight. He threw nightwing's carcass at her, she instinctively caught him, and omni-man instantly followed up with a kill. I'm not sure if it's on purpose, but it's really smart tho.

1

u/SealSquasher Dec 17 '23

If her powers work like Lemillion in my hero academia (literally the same power), everything passes through her, which means she cannot see,breathe or hear. As light, air and sound just travel through her. So i can't imagine too long. Maybe like a couple minutes with training.

269

u/Greenman8907 Dec 16 '23

Which is why he tricked her and face-fucked her with is fist.

154

u/Tobias_Mercury Dec 16 '23

He face fucked her? I must’ve missed that scene

67

u/Gabe-DaBabe Chainsaw Dec 16 '23

It's an OVA

7

u/alpineflamingo2 Dec 17 '23

Which website were you watching on?

36

u/Willing-Source3126 Brit Dec 17 '23

Comic Spoilers:

in the Reboot Arc Green Ghost phases through Nolan and that makes him vomit and pass out

56

u/sad-on-alt Dec 16 '23

Bro I still don’t understand why she had the time to say “oh shit 😳✌️” and didn’t just go intangible

79

u/SalvationSycamore Dec 16 '23

Well her "go intangible" activation phrase is "oh shit biscuits" so she needed just a little more time

13

u/LarryKingthe42th Dec 16 '23

I mean couldnt she have just kinda walked inside of him and turned solid?

11

u/Undinianking Dec 17 '23

He's made of sterner stuff so would have probably just imploded her or some shit.

7

u/billybobskcor Invincible Whip / Nae Nae Dec 17 '23

A variation on the Thanus tactic, I see.

11

u/healthycoco Debbie Grayson Dec 17 '23

Just goes to show Nolan’s more than a grunt. He’s an excellent tactician, throwing the corpse of her friend at her to get an opening.

10

u/Gasster1212 Dec 17 '23

It’s almost a plot hole he wouldn’t go for her first

If he can’t take her out then his plan is ruined as there’s a witness

3

u/JonyTony2017 Dec 17 '23

She was inexperienced and a rookie. The previous guy retired.

2

u/Gasster1212 Dec 17 '23

Regardless she’s an element he can’t control or force. He should’ve killed her immediately. Then red rush. Either one could have ruined his plan

4

u/LivingNo7641 Dec 17 '23

Weirdly I was wondering this same thing today. It stands to reason if she can hear while phased out, Omni could have just clapped some super sonic waves next to her head that’d either kill her, or at the least knock her back into phase

3

u/Lord_Urwitch Dec 17 '23

You forget she is a superheroe. She could never leave her companions to die

1

u/Gerry-Cann Dec 24 '23

I’ve never thought about it like that, it’s a very good point. That’s backed up by the fact she becomes solid again to catch dark wings corpse

2

u/VLenin2291 Cecil’s strongest Rexplode hater Mar 23 '24

Have her group hug everyone and just leave