r/Invincible • u/mwthecool Omni-Mod • Nov 17 '23

Invincible [Episode Discussion] - S02E03 - This Missive, This Machination! EPISODE DISCUSSION

Episode 3 - This Missive, This Machination!

Mark starts his college career, Debbie struggles with personal trauma, and Allen the Alien returns home to find a new threat facing the Coalition of Planets.

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2.4k

u/LMkingly Nov 17 '23

I don't think you can just add up your clones lives and say that equals immortal's age lol. Don't think it works quite like that Kate lol.

711

u/mmcintoshmerc_88 Battle Beast Nov 17 '23

It'd be funny if Multiple Man in Marvel pulled the same move, just arguing he's technically the oldest being in the entire Marvel universe.

197

u/8dev8 Cecil Stedman Nov 17 '23

Galactus

Lol

Lmao

19

u/DragEncyclopedia Nov 17 '23

There are a plethora of beings in Marvel wayyyy older than Galactus

11

u/Cute-Living-7704 Nov 17 '23

He’d very easily be “technically” older than Galactus as well

29

u/8dev8 Cecil Stedman Nov 17 '23

I am unsure he has made enough clones to be older then reality/time.

-7

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/8dev8 Cecil Stedman Nov 17 '23

heres some math for you

Assuming every single clone lived 60 years

Multiple man would need more then 200 million to even be slightly comparable to Galactus

5

u/justanotherdankmeme Nov 17 '23

Haha and his clones never make it more than a week at a time lmfao

1

u/8dev8 Cecil Stedman Nov 18 '23

There’s like

3? 4? That are a decade old or so iirc.

But yeah

0

u/Cute-Living-7704 Nov 17 '23

That’s not unattainable lmfao remember this was a fictional piece of work?

3

u/8dev8 Cecil Stedman Nov 18 '23

Multiple man spent a good while with a limit of 40 clones, and isn’t even 60 himself.

In theory it’s possible.

In actuality no.

8

u/PinkertonKickedMyDog Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23

It would take him having billions of clones for years to reach as ‘old’ as the big bang

And theres characters that are immortal and travel back in time repeatedly, spend ages is alternative dimensions, live through universal resets or other nonsense that would put them ‘older’

4

u/QwahaXahn Atom Eve Nov 17 '23

That sounds like something Jamie would do honestly. Which does just make the whole Layla Miller situation even more creepy than it already is.

4

u/Bobjoejj Nov 19 '23

Tbf Jamie would absolutely be one to do that, even if it was half in-jest.

3

u/CelioHogane Nov 18 '23

was Multiple Man the guy that merged with his baby child?

2

u/tehvolcanic Nov 18 '23

Yes. He has a real kid now though.

3

u/android151 Nov 20 '23

Imagine he does it in reverse

He can pay child prices for movies because he’s only 1/9 of a 30 year old

514

u/Any-Zookeepergame137 Nov 17 '23

It's seems Kate is gonna take Amber's place as the illogical moron of the show

690

u/raknor88 Show Fan Nov 17 '23

It's an illogical argument. The dude is thousands of years old. He'd be too old for anyone. The real argument should be the fact that he's her boss.

She gave him a stupid reason for an illogical question.

467

u/KEVLAR60442 Nov 17 '23

The age thing was a stupid reason, but her real reason, wherein Immortal is the only one who's experienced the pain of death as much as Kate has, is actually a damn good reason.

188

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23

Yeah it's obvious that she's being facetious about the age thing. I felt reddit has been going a bit downhill lately but seeing so many people who didn't cop that is still quite surprising.

51

u/MegaBaumTV Nov 18 '23

Yeah it's obvious that she's being facetious about the age thing.

Just like she didnt actually care about professionalism in the work place when Rex encountered her at the showers. I swear to god, theres probably people on reddit asking why we didnt see any asteroids on the purple planet.

4

u/Shantotto11 Nov 20 '23

Okay, but why didn’t we see asteroids on that planet? /s

19

u/22bebo Nov 18 '23

It's totally anecdotal, but it has felt like since the blackout earlier this year Reddit has been... Worse. In a number of ways, though most noticeably it has felt a little more negative. I would be interested in seeing if the general tone of comments and posts has noticeably changed across the board since then or if it is just confirmation bias on my part (which it probably is).

3

u/watashi_ga_kita Nov 20 '23

Some users actually left, moderation has gone down in quality, there have been more bots and such, and all of this has also affected current users. It's not just you feeling like reddit has become worse.

8

u/KBSinclair Doc Seismic Nov 18 '23

You're surprised by that? After the massive overreaction and misunderstanding people had and still have about Amber from last season? Despite having two other characters on screen explain what Mark did wrong? It doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

2

u/Spider-Man-fan Nov 18 '23

To be clear, what he did wrong was be in a relationship with Amber in the first place, correct?

2

u/KBSinclair Doc Seismic Nov 19 '23

No. What he did wrong was stay in one while not telling her he was a superhero. He either should've broken up with her once he realized Superheroing would always take precedence over any commitment he made to her, or he should've told her, and let her make the choice to date a superhero or not. Making her figure it out on her own after months of making promises and lying to her were his major fuck ups.

5

u/Cats_Cameras Nov 19 '23

Hard disagree. His identity is his family's safety, and even the best-intentioned teens can struggle to hold a secret.

4

u/KBSinclair Doc Seismic Nov 19 '23 edited Nov 19 '23

His identity is his family's safety

His family is Omni-Man and his mom. Not to mention how they're monitored and protected by the gov't and Cecil. Even under the possibility of a reveal, they'd be fine.

best-intentioned teens can struggle to hold a secret.

Who's pressing her on it, and who would she want to even tell? Superheroes are pretty damn common place. Did you not see their reaction to Eve? Despite her power and being connected to the new Guardians of the Globe, no one gave a shit. And at that point, even less people know or care about Invincible in particular. He's a nobody. How would it service Amber to tell anyone about him in any regard? There's no reason for him not to trust Amber, or at least to show that he has abilities and is a superhero, even if he didn't say which one in particular.

And let's just say all that doesn't matter and Mark had to keep the secret. Ok, then he's still a piece of shit for lying to Amber and not breaking up with her if he couldn't balance a relationship and his superhero duties. Something he should've understood from leaving her in his room for hours to deal with a crisis. He should've recognized that would be the standard and she didn't deserve that. He had from that moment to the time they visited the college to come to that conclusion, yet he never did. That's a failure on his part.

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u/Spider-Man-fan Nov 19 '23

True, but you agree that Amber wasn’t completely faultless in the whole thing either, right? And sounds like she figured it out pretty quickly.

1

u/KBSinclair Doc Seismic Nov 19 '23

True, but you agree that Amber wasn’t completely faultless in the whole thing either, right?

No, I don't. Mark was the one lying. He should've been the one to come forward with the truth instead of stringing her along, making promises and letting her down without telling her the truth.

And sounds like she figured it out pretty quickly.

We don't know for sure when she did, but whenever that was doesn't justify Mark's continued behavior. Again, the impetus was on him to either break up with her or give her the choice to date a superhero or not. Doing neither makes him the asshole.

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2

u/KR5shin8Stark Nov 19 '23

I think it's just virtue signaling. They only act offended or "morally appalled" just to get other people riled up. At this point I wouldn't take anyone making some moral standing over fictional stories seriously.

1

u/RhysieB27 Nov 23 '23

I felt reddit has been going a bit downhill lately

God, I'm glad it's not just me. I've only been back a week after quitting during the blackouts and since coming back it feels like everyone is a 12yo boy. Especially the people on r/AskReddit, TIFU etc.

1

u/Aiyon Nov 25 '23

I mean this in on par with the Amber hate train because of people not being able to understand that she was mad about him lying to her, not about him being a hero

26

u/Neversoft4long Nov 17 '23

Yeah that actually made me do a 180 on her instantly. Bonding over trauma like that is a real thing. Not too mention immortal is hot so it’s not too hard to fall for him like Kate did

2

u/Gathorall Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 18 '23

As much? Like how old is immortal? Or does it even matter? When did other superpowered beings appear anyway? Because from what we see humans have had even a small practical chance of killing him (unless he lets them) for 200 years or so, wouldn't he have died a lot less?

2

u/cancerinos Nov 18 '23

Nothing is a good reason to be dishonest with other people. She was dating a dude, then cheated with a new guy and decided it was ok, because the thing before wasn't dating she decided. Which she never asked, if he was ok with a friends with benefits thing.

9

u/Spider-Man-fan Nov 18 '23

I never ever really got the impression that Rex and Kate were dating. Just seemed like they were just hooking up.

4

u/GrannyVhagar Nov 19 '23

He was still with Atom Eve, unbeknownst to her, and slept with her anyway. What about that would make her judge anything in their relationship as serious going forward?

0

u/cancerinos Nov 20 '23

Two wrongs don't make a right.

1

u/tbinrbrich Nov 20 '23

Yeah, probably should've gone with that- the age thing was dumb

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '23

not really, the guy may have gotten pieced up by nolan but vs anything else on the planet accept maybe humans using technology in the present he would have had no threats to his life even if he could be killed.

-24

u/2SP00KY4ME Nov 17 '23

But she hasn't. She doesn't know what it's like to die, only the copies that never merged back with her have truly died. Her consciousness is one where she's never truly ceased to exist. She's never fully lost, and had everyone around her die, like Immortal has.

39

u/Reggiardito Nov 17 '23

When the immortal was fucking one of them, another clone felt the sensation. I think it's obvious that when one of them dies, the original feels something as well

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117

u/Any-Zookeepergame137 Nov 17 '23

It feels like they want to give the female characters more depth than they had in the comics but their depth just makes them come across like assholes

167

u/Vlitzen Nov 17 '23

Being wrong doesn't make you an asshole lol, Kate seems fine

6

u/cancerinos Nov 18 '23

Cheating on someone makes you an asshole, So now they're both assholes.

24

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '23

Seems pretty clear they weren't a thing, only Rex thought so

-8

u/Joeybfast Nov 18 '23

Naw they were thing. She would not have wanted to talk about things if it was just fling .

10

u/sGvDaemon Nov 19 '23

No evidence they were a thing, having sex doesn't make you a couple. It seemed like Rex wanted more (especially after Eve leaving him) but Kate was not interested

1

u/AgilePickle745 Nov 22 '23

Not communicating that still makes her kinda an asshole though

5

u/elizabnthe Nov 18 '23

She didn't want to talk though.

1

u/Joeybfast Nov 18 '23

She forced the conversation in the gym .

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u/shammylol Nov 20 '23

They weren’t dating, Rex cheated on Eve with Kate, Kate thought they broke up and she was upset with Rex afterwards.

5

u/Sahm_1982 Nov 21 '23

She slept with someone in a relationship. Then cheated on him, with her boss.

You not thinking she's an asshole shows a lot about your character lol

2

u/AlishanTearese Nov 23 '23

Kate didn't realize Rex and Eve were still together. Rex fed her some line about Eve getting together with Mark.

3

u/Sahm_1982 Nov 23 '23

And she didn't even bother to check.

And then she slept with her boss, while being with rex.

Like, at VERY best interpretation she's kinda a hoe. Really she feels like a cheater

23

u/Poniibeatnik Atom Eve Nov 17 '23

Nah Kate's wrong but she's not an asshole.

13

u/Reddragon351 Nov 17 '23

I mean I would argue they have given a lot of them more depth, and even works well with some of them, like Eve and Debbie, the problem is whenever they're try to be subversive or explain away something like Amber last season or the justification for Kate this season it comes off as really dumb.

11

u/Effective-Handle9983 Rex Splode Nov 17 '23

Kate was already an asshole in the comic

1

u/Reddragon351 Nov 17 '23

yeah everyone kind of was

5

u/Chagdoo Donald Ferguson Nov 17 '23

What's wrong with a deep asshole?

4

u/zauraz Nov 18 '23

I mean. Rex is an ass. He was already cheating and said his relationship with Duplicate meant nothing when talking to Eve. I can't really say she is being an "ass"

2

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

5

u/BardtheGM Nov 17 '23

Dude, you're not supposed to post comic spoilers in this thread at all. What a fucking asshole.

"DO NOT post comic book spoilers in this thread - use the comic spoiler discussion thread for discussion using comic book context"

2

u/Best-Dragonfruit-292 Machine Head Nov 17 '23

That's been my problem with HoD.

2

u/wispymatrias Nov 18 '23

She is an asshole. Assholes can have depth.

Comic readers know it's a merry-go-round of pricks with the new Guardians.

14

u/Negativety101 Nov 17 '23

So thousands of years old people can't ever date?

46

u/raknor88 Show Fan Nov 17 '23

The age thing doesn't bother me since he's older than pretty much anyone on the planet. But a boss openly dating a subordinate should be an issue.

But in a way I almost understand why he would start dating in the 20s range. He's looking at who know how many hundreds to thousands of years more to his life. If you're looking for a partner, start the relationship early so then you have more time with them.

18

u/ikarikh Nov 17 '23

Honestly, if you lived thousands of years, you'd have spent only the past 100 years or less dealing with age being a social stigma for dating.

On top of that, even if you started your thousand years off worrying about social stigma, by the time you're 1,000 you honestly wouldn't give a shit anymore because you've already been alive for hundreds of years before the person you're screwing was ever born. Why would you feel weird about a perceived 20-30 year age gap visually?

At his age, all he is honestly going to care about is screwing a hot person in their sexual prime.

Dating a 60 year old would still be just as weird as a 20 year old, considering he's still 900+ years older than both. So physical beauty and sexual peak would be the thing he cared about. Aka screwing 20 year olds.

10

u/Negativety101 Nov 17 '23

I'd imagine that my parents having a 20 year age difference would be seen differently now than it was in the 1970's.

Course by the time you are thousands of years old, you've probably seen so many social changes just come and go you don't care anymore.

5

u/2SP00KY4ME Nov 17 '23

The issue with boss-subordinate relationships is that they represent an uneven balance of power in the relationship. It's not a matter of social stigma to date your boss, it's that he controls your career, for better (over more deserving others) if you please him, or for worse if you don't. That's why it's considered wrong.

3

u/Soul699 Nov 17 '23

By the same logic celebrities and politicians shouldn't date anyone else but those who have the same job as them.

1

u/2SP00KY4ME Nov 20 '23

I'm not sure why you think that's by my logic, because being a politician or a celebrity is not the same as literally being their actual boss in their job.

0

u/Soul699 Nov 20 '23

Because they still hold as much if not more power as being your boss.

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u/Cloudhwk Nov 17 '23

Maturity is a big thing, people in their 20’s are usually still developing their brains

Honestly immortal is engaging in lowkey grooming behaviour here

6

u/ikarikh Nov 17 '23

Again, you're seeing it from a social view as a person in the current gen or society.

To a guy who is 1000 years old, a 60 year old woman is as much a baby to him as a 20 year old.

The great majority of the first 900 years of his life, there was no social stigma on age. There wasn't even age of consent.

And most people didn't even live passed 30 or 40 if they were lucky.

All the stigma you're judging him on was only brought about over the past millenia which is a mere fraction of his existence.

To him, all he is interested in is screwing a hot girl in her prime. The age is irrelevant to a 1000 year old guy. Because part of the stigma is about someone being 20-30 years older than someone and them not being equally mature to each other.

Immortal is literally 900+ years older than ANY woman he gets with. There isn't a single woman who matches his collective maturity from dozens of LIFETIMES of experience.

Do you think he really cares at this point if someone thinks he's too "old" to fuck kate?

She's "legal" and consenting. That's about all he cares about. There's zero reason for him to care to aim for a 30+ girl. To him, they aren't any different than the 20 year old. They're all still "young" to him.

1

u/Tesser4ct Nov 18 '23

Yeah he likes hot babes like any straight guy. It's pretty simple lol.

4

u/raknor88 Show Fan Nov 17 '23

What you're forgetting to take into account is that she is much more mature than a regular person of her age. She's a superhero that's been in many many fights the last few years and since her only super power is to clone herself her clones have a high dependency to die. So there's a decent chance that she feels herself die dozens of times throughout a fight. That sort of thing tends to mature someone real fast.

She's seen a lot of ugly shit and knows just what she's getting herslef into.

-1

u/Cloudhwk Nov 17 '23

Dating a dude who can’t die screams PTSD

6

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

First you accused Immortal of grooming her.

Now she went for him because she has PTSD.

I wonder what you will say next to defend current day's stigma.

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u/downvotetheboy Nov 17 '23

grooming in what way ?

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u/Cloudhwk Nov 17 '23

He is significantly older and in a position of power to her, I have no idea how you can’t see the grooming here

3

u/downvotetheboy Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23

yeah but you’re looking at it from a real world POV. he’s significantly older than everyone, so you’re essentially saying he’s grooming anyone he dates.

he is in a position of power, but i wouldn’t say it’s grooming, but rather an abuse of power.

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u/2-2Distracted Nov 17 '23

This is reddit dude, people love to ignore what grooming is unless it fits the textbook definition to the absolute T.

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u/GameConsideration Nov 17 '23

Grooming would be if he met her while she was underage, took a position of trust, and guided her towards doing sexual favors later in life. That is what makes grooming so heinous.

He met her as an adult. Chill.

1

u/GameConsideration Nov 17 '23

Is he the boss? I thought he was just the leader of the team. Rudy was interested in Monster Girl before he lost leadership.

Also Robin from Teen Titans is the leader, and he loved Starfire.

11

u/OneGoodRib Nov 17 '23

Yeah I saw people last week being like "the age gap is problematic" but like... the dude is 2000 years old. Is he only supposed to date people who are 1007 years or older? Him being her boss is the actual problem.

7

u/KaleidoscopeLeft5511 Nov 17 '23

1007 years or older

Half his age plus 7. Underrated comment!

7

u/Locem Nov 17 '23

I think the take away is supposed to be that Immortal is not a good leader.

Kate absolutely has a point about the constant experiencing of death thing, though.

3

u/Cloudhwk Nov 17 '23

He is too old for someone so young though, if Immortal was dating a 35 year old it might make more sense

Hell people judge relationships with massive age gaps with far less of a gap than immortal and Kate

3

u/Bbgirl4lato Nov 17 '23

It's weird but it's happening. Immortal also has had no screentime unless he's being murdered (nothing on how it's affected him except a reference by Kate) he just seems like a cold douchebag who's now effing his mentee/subordinate

2

u/tayroarsmash Nov 17 '23

There is no one who has been real with more of an age gap than immortal and Kate. If we’re thinking in age gaps he just shouldn’t date anyone at all. I suspect you can’t apply conventional morality to an immortal man when considering the ethics of his dating life.

2

u/TobioOkuma1 Nov 17 '23

I don't really think that was particularly the argument. I mean that line was dumb, but immortal understanding death is genuinely a good reason imo.

0

u/Effective-Handle9983 Rex Splode Nov 17 '23

And she’s only 18, it’s not just the age gap, it’s the fact she’s just so young

0

u/Sahm_1982 Nov 21 '23

Even if he was 40 he was too old for her.

She's just a hoe lol

187

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

I mean, she gave the actual justification moments later. I wouldn't be too harsh on her.

15

u/Lego_Gasgano_Minifig Nov 17 '23

I was gonna say. The one thing out of five or however many was wrong. Everything else was what people in the discussion last week were bringing up. I think we’re exaggerating here.

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13

u/Armandocubes Nov 17 '23

Amber was just being lied to. Give me a break

4

u/JorgeMtzb Nov 17 '23

Amber had a right to be upset at being lied to. Amber had a right to think that things weren't working out due to the super hero stuff. Amber had the right to feel like she deserved more.

Amber had no right to lie to Mark herself and then complain and act like the victim. Amber had no right to act dumb and stupid and porpusefully put mark in a tight spot for saving people's lives when she KNEW what was happening. I mean seriously, Mark becomes invincible and SAVES HER life. Does he thank him for saving his life? No, he gets mad at him for ditching her.... for her. SHE KNEW IT WAS HIM. WHY ACT DUMB? It made sense if she didn't know he was invincible but the moment you realize she knew all along it along it just makes no fucking sense for her to act the victim because she knows he had literally no other option and again, he just saved her life!!!

And all of this. Is fine, because characters are allowed to have flaws. Because she can make mistakes and do dumb shit and learn abotu it and still be a good character. What ruins it is everye in the show not treating it as such, acting as if she has done no wrong... sigh. I'm fine with Amber not being great, I'm fine with them being together. I just wish the show actually addressed it rather than act as if she's an angel that can do no wrong!!

2

u/Cpt_Obvius Nov 19 '23

Well they decided to just flip it 180 with this season and now she is instantly cool with him doing whatever if he’s going to save lives. Feels a bit like they saw they messed up OR they’re caving to pressure.

10

u/Bobthecow775 Nov 17 '23

Is this actually a big thing? Are people actually upset about this?

2

u/Bbgirl4lato Nov 17 '23

All she did was f*ck her boss at work, come on man

1

u/JoseNEO Nov 17 '23

Glad the ever revolving idiot hat from the comics is getting adapted at least

1

u/DeltaAlphaGulf Nov 17 '23

Setting aside any disputes about Amber…wdym? They are making everyone look stupid so far. Just the matter of this Martian dude covers a handful of characters.

1

u/bakakubi Nov 23 '23

i literally started and caught up to the show 2 days ago. Is amber like this in the comics?

She's easily the worst written character in the show so far.

221

u/Immaeatchorizo Nov 17 '23

they're not clones they are all her, she is experience all of them at the same time more like a hivemind

6

u/LMkingly Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23

That makes saying she's equal to thousands of years old still not make sense to me. Time doesn't work like that hivemind or not. Like i get she's trying to count up the different experiences she has with different clones but the logic of "my two clones did two different things today so i'm actually two days older" seems faulty to me.

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u/Immaeatchorizo Nov 17 '23

it doesnt have to do with how times work, but how kate perceive it, imagine she use kate 2 to cook for 1 hr and kate 3 to make a drink for another hour, when she absorve both she has 1 hr of experience cooking and another 1 hour of making drinks.

3

u/Wolf6120 Cecil Stedman Nov 20 '23

This brought up an interesting question when she was working out at the gym, actually. I understand that she simultaneously retains all the experience/memories of all her copies, but seemingly that can't be the case with physical progress too, right, otherwise she would die the moment one of her copies does.

Cause it was the number 1 Kate actually lifting the weights while the others just stood around or spotted her, cause I'm guessing that the copies also working out on their own would have no actual benefit for her, physically? But then, like, even Kate Number 1 isn't really "Kate Prime" since we know the Number 1 can die and she just carries on as one of the others, so I guess it's just a matter of having one body work out and then absorbing all the others into that so the next batch of duplicates reap the benefits? Now I'm wondering how that works in terms of things like eating and sleeping, if they all need to or if it's enough for one to do so for all of them.

2

u/Distinct-Tune9870 Nov 19 '23

That logic makes sense, but the math doesn't. If she had 9 copies going *all the time* she'd be 10 times her current age. Still more than 10 *times* younger than immortal.

1

u/Aarondo99 Nov 19 '23

It’s not physical age though, it’s mental age

2

u/LoganJFisher Nov 20 '23

Even so, she couldn't be more than a fraction of his mental age. Not to mention that an important part of age is living through changes in the world. Even if their mental ages were the same, he has actually lived through the rise and fall of numerous great empires and massive cultural shifts throughout the world. She has only lived in late 20th and early 21st century America.

-1

u/GrandioseGommorah Nov 18 '23

But it’s not two separate perceptions. They’re both the same person and both aware of what each other is doing. It’s like cooking with one hand for an hour and making drinks with the other hand for an hour.

1

u/pseudo_nemesis Nov 19 '23

but she has multiple hands and multiple brains. So it's safe to say her ability to perceive and log the experiences she does whilst multitasking is much more fine tuned and capable than if a normal person were multitasking with just two hands.

She very well may and should be able to perceive multiple instances at once, thus making her "experienced time" multiplicably higher.

-4

u/LMkingly Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23

Yeah i know but still seems like false equavelance to me. Isn't this just advanced multitasking? She's doing all those things at the same time perceiving them at the same time. I can make dinner and a drink at the same time in one hour. Does this mean i have lived for two hours more than someone who only spent that time making either a drink or dinner? If her mind can process being a hivemind isn't she just really good at doing alot of things at the same time? She's doing all these things simultanously. The perception of time for her should be the same as for me as its all the same moment she is experiencing. She can just balance more actions in that moment than me.

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u/Immaeatchorizo Nov 17 '23

yes you can cook and make a drink at the same hour, thats not the point tho, the point is that you cant go to brazil and hawaii at the same time, kate can, and when she absorve them she has memory of doing both separately,

-6

u/LMkingly Nov 17 '23

But she is a hivemind no? Hiveminds experience things concurrently right? So its the same thing in practice only applied on a bigger scale right? If her clones are a hivemind she doesn't perceive these events separately. She doesn't experience them separately. It's all happening at the same time in the same moment.

17

u/Immaeatchorizo Nov 17 '23

i dont know man, to me makes perfect sense.

8

u/Sophophilic Nov 17 '23

We don't know how she perceives time except for this one statement. There's no reason not to take it as true given the context of being revealed in a vulnerable emotional state.

-1

u/LMkingly Nov 17 '23

There's no reason not to take it as true

I mean i'd say exaggerating one's mental age to justify a large age gap relationship is a reason and a pretty common one at that.

-2

u/WeWillRiseAgainst Nov 17 '23

That's a good point.

6

u/LegendReborn Nov 17 '23

Considering it's all fake, there's no reason to assume that Kate is lying about how she perceives her clones and the time lived.

2

u/Locem Nov 17 '23

Look, Immortal is going to be too old for anyone comparatively that I don't think it's worth fixating on that. I'm willing to take Kate at face value of the "cumulative age" aspect, but still, whatever.

Kate absolutely experiences the death of all of her alternates though, which is a relatability with her and Immortal that I can't think of many, if any other characters that share it.

1

u/elyn6791 Nov 17 '23

Not a hivemind. Multiple minds that share experiences and are capable of coordinating or acting independently.

Multitasking would be better defined as a single mind managing multiple tasks.

2

u/AllinForBadgers Nov 17 '23

It feels like you’re incapable of imagining any perspective other than a normal 3 dimensional human life.

3

u/LMkingly Nov 17 '23

What is this even supposed to mean? Of course i can't. Neither can you. Not really. It's just made up shit at the end of the day. We have no actual frame of reference for a perspective any other than that of our own 3 dimensional self.

I simply disagree on the interpretation of this specific hypothetical perspective.

0

u/neoanguiano Nov 17 '23

AFAIK they all experiencing life separetely, and when fused back all the memories are merged together... now 2 milenia is BS probably a decade or 2 at most https://youtu.be/T-oZ3OWeH64?t=581

41

u/Locem Nov 17 '23

I think the age wasn't the important part as much as the whole constantly dying thing. She has a point there.

2

u/Desperate_Method4020 Nov 18 '23

That's what I also got from her argument. It's that she has died multiple times, and it's basically impossible for people except for immortal to understand that.

7

u/Muaddib223 Nov 17 '23

Dude you're mansplaining a fictional character about how her fictional powers work hahahah

3

u/Neversoft4long Nov 17 '23

I don’t think she was being that serious about the numbers thing lmao. She gave her actual reason like 10 seconds later and it was actually a plausible one that makes sense

1

u/sGvDaemon Nov 19 '23

Have you ever been accused of something but you didn't feel like explaining yourself so instead you just throw out some half-assed answer?

It felt a lot like that, the writers probably weren't trying to deliver it as if it was airtight logic

2

u/2SP00KY4ME Nov 17 '23

But she hasn't outlived all her friends twenty consecutive times, making new ones and then outliving them too. She hasn't experienced the ancient brutal history of humanity. She hasn't ever truly died, only copies - she doesn't know what it's like not to exist, or to fail utterly and see everyone die. Not to mention the extra time she has is mostly her copies either standing around or fighting - not 2,000 years of daily life, learning and reading. Honestly, the comparison she makes is trivial.

23

u/Blayro Nov 17 '23

she does know however, how it feels to die in more ways than anyone should ever experience

1

u/2SP00KY4ME Nov 20 '23

But does she? Some people are saying she gains the memories when the Kates re-merge. If a Kate dies, it doesn't re-merge.

1

u/pseudo_nemesis Nov 19 '23

The Immortal also has never "truly died" since he's still alive.

12

u/Josephalopod Nov 17 '23

It’s not about age, it’s about death. Kate confirmed what we suspected when her relationship with The Immortal was revealed - if she can feel the pleasure of her duplicates, she feels the pain as well. She has felt herself die countless times, which obviously fucks her up, and she’s seeking that common understanding with The Immortal.

Doesn’t excuse Immortal from being a dirty old man, but at least it makes sense why they’d have a connection.

7

u/ZealousidealVirus358 Nov 17 '23

It’s also not even mathematically close to accurate. Even if she lived to 100 and she had 10 clones activated her entire life, that’s still only half of Immortals supposed 2,000 years alive

10

u/LovesRetribution Nov 17 '23

It’s also not even mathematically close to accurate

It doesn't have to be. Even living a few hundred years would be a lot closer to the Immortal's experience than a normal human. He's one of the few people she knows who knows how that feels.

1

u/NoBluey Nov 17 '23

Exactly what I thought unless she lives longer than other humans?

1

u/Nukemarine Rick Grimes Nov 17 '23

Possible in her youth she duplicated 100 times or more at once for speed training multiple areas of expertise. Absorb all that experience into one is bound to create an odd look at life. Not to mention if she can feel each and every death.

7

u/Smash96leo Invincible Nov 17 '23

Like if she felt every single one of those deaths, then I can see her relating to Immortal in some way. But saying she’s anywhere near as old as him cause of that is just copium ngl.

3

u/incredibleamadeuscho Robot Nov 17 '23

That’s not true. Different cloning powers have different experiences. For instance the Multiple Man Jamie Madrox reabsorbs the memories of his dupes to attain more knowledge. He doesn’t use that for his age, but the experiences enrich him to know more about the world. If Kate feels that way about all the lives she lives, she’s processing much more information at the same time.

For another example, Naruto in his anime uses his shadow clones to train faster. By using hundreds of clones, he’s able to speed up his rasengan training, turning months into days, allowing him to learn a technique that usually take years much sooner.

I don’t think we should use our view of life to invalidate Kate’s experiences.

1

u/terminatoreagle Nov 18 '23

Since you pulled up Naruto, I wonder if Kate could become a super genius by having a bunch of her clones constantly learning things from textbooks or the internet.

3

u/feetsniffer809 Nov 17 '23

Bro pulled a naruto

2

u/Gasster1212 Nov 17 '23

I think you can if you have the memories and the collective experience

She will have 2,000 years worth of memories ? I guess is what she means (seems high)

2

u/onerb2 Nov 17 '23

No, but that's just an excuse from her, but she does have a point that immortal is one of the only ppl on earth who also understand what dying feels like and how it affects you.

2

u/chaos9001 Spider-Man Nov 17 '23

I mean age as a number no, but It would depend on how her memory works and if she internalizes the experiences of all her dupes. So it could be reasoned if she is say 25 and has at least 2 dupes most of the time, she has the experiences at least of a 70 year old.

But also this is just her point of view. She sees immortal as a more mature choice than Rex, and she is trying to justify her choice while Rex is ribbing her about it.

2

u/BardtheGM Nov 17 '23

Does she absorb the memories and perception of time from her clones? If 10 clones all split up and did stuff for a year and then combined, that kind of is like living for 10 years.

2

u/JCkent42 Nov 17 '23

She said the real reason was that Immortal was the only who knew what it was like to die and then come back over and over again.

2

u/musecorn Nov 17 '23

True but if she feels each time they die then math aside, she does have that in common with immortal

1

u/Pancakewagon26 Nov 18 '23

they're all the real Kate, so she experiences and remembers every time one of her dies.

0

u/AndrewTheSouless Brit Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23

I mean thats kinda the point, she is stil immature

0

u/dcwspike Nov 17 '23

I said the same thing, I was like not to be that guy but technically you haven't been murdered all your clones have

1

u/WhiteWolfOW Nov 17 '23

Well it’s about life experience and maturity at the end of the day right? If each clone is technically leaving it’s own life and adding it all to Kate’s perception of life, on her mind she has lived for thousands of years. Apart from relationship with minors, dating is all about maturity as well and the age factor mostly comes into play when thinking about the future or life stages. Like if you have a stable job, house, car, you’re dealing with adult life is weird dating a young person still in college that is not even working yet and depends on their parents money. That’s not the case with Kate and Immortal. They’re at the same stage of life. It’s also complicated when you’re 20 the other person is 50, because in 20 years you will still be an adult and the other will be an elderly almost dying. Again, not the case with Kate and immortal. But at one point she will be an elderly lady almost dying and he will still look like 50 years old.

1

u/Bbgirl4lato Nov 17 '23

I mean... how many times has she duplicated herself? What does it all add up to? Plus what hit home better was the fact that she's died almost as many times as Immortal

1

u/vadergeek Nov 17 '23

Also, if he's thousands of years old then I doubt that math unless she has way more duplicates than it seems.

1

u/benny_poulett Nov 17 '23

Immortal ≈ 2000 years minimum 2000 x 365.25 = 730500 days 730500 x 24 = 17532000 hours alive

Kate = 10 clone approximately 17532000 / 10 = 1753200 hours 1753200 / 24= 73050 days 73050 / 365.25 = 200 years

So she would have needed to be 10 clones at all time for 200 for her clone and her to have "lived" as long as immortal (and I'm sure it's even longer than that that he have been alive.

1

u/_xoviox_ Nov 17 '23

So you took 2000 years, converted it to hours, divided it by 10 and then converted it back to years?

Couldn't you just do 2000/10=200?

1

u/benny_poulett Nov 18 '23

If you look at it that way.. then yeah that would have been a better idea

0

u/Lucifer_Crowe Nov 17 '23

At most she'd times her age by 5. And that's assuming her duplicates are always out at Max capacity.

Even if she was 20 that's still only 100 (Even though I think she's like 18)

1

u/DrBleach466 Nov 17 '23

I think of it as each clone has their respective memories that absorb into the main Kate whenever they die, so like if she has 4 during a week she gets the memories from their perspective for a month worth of time

1

u/tayroarsmash Nov 17 '23

Also she has 5 clones. At most they’re all in their 20s. I have my doubts that she adds up to 2000.

1

u/MoneyTrees2018 Nov 17 '23

It's like when a business established in 2015 has an executive group that has a collective 60 years of experience on their "about us" page

1

u/Ufokinw0tm8 Nov 17 '23 edited Nov 17 '23

I think they’re going for something similar to the Naruto shadow clone explanation. In Shippuden, Naruto can master extremely difficult techniques quickly by summoning up to hundreds of “shadow clones” of himself and he’d have each clone practice a technique. The show says that’s it’s as if Naruto is practicing the same thing hundreds of time in the same instant, so he learns much, much faster.

Kate may be trying to say that all Kates share experiences and learning. The Kate clone outside of the shower tries to hide an orgasm while Immortal does the deed with other Kates in the shower, so they clearly all share pain/pleasure/information/etc lmaoo. So you probably can treat the Kate clones similarly to how Naruto Shippuden treats Shadow Clones

1

u/Alchemist628 Nov 17 '23

Even if it did, she's what? 20? Let's say 30 to give her the benefit of the doubt. She usually has 4-5 clones out a time, so, she's maybe 150? The immortal is 2000 years, still more than 10x older, lol.

1

u/Pancakewagon26 Nov 18 '23

Yeah, but I think if youre past 25 you're able to date as old as you want.

Also think of it from the immortal's perspective. everyone is too young for him.

1

u/Alchemist628 Nov 18 '23

Right, so Kate's is dumb

1

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

On the other hand can we just take a big step back and realize what a shitty power it is that she has to feel herself dying each time? Ok so you have her on your team. You have the fighting power of like 4-5 reasonably in shape short women at any given moment. How is she any more effective than just average trained merc with a gun? Why not just spend a ton of money training her for something actually useful instead of punching things, like maybe medicine? An entire clinic full of doctors who can instantly coordinate with each other and immediately pull up more workers out of nowhere would be more useful than just like a couple hand to hand combatants.

Im sruggling to figure out why shes even on the team when Robot can replace her with one remote control drone and be even more effective. What does she bring to the table? Shes just a clown car of regular humans.

1

u/shadeOfAwave Nov 17 '23

i thought it was just a sarcastic point to rub in rex's face, not actually meaning anything

1

u/drflanigan Nov 17 '23

Her powers are weird

Is she experiencing every single death and every clones actions simultaneously? She felt the pleasure from one of her clones, and only one of them works out

So maybe to her an hour DOES feel like multiple hours

And dying 50 times during a fight must be terrifying

1

u/ErrorSchensch Agent Spider Nov 17 '23

Imagine she would've said that before she got 18 years old lmao.

1

u/Pancakewagon26 Nov 18 '23

Idk man, i think what she's trying to say is that she experiences and remembers everything all the other Kates experience. I remember back in season 1 she said "we're all the real Kate". So every time you saw one of the kates die (and that's a lot) she experienced that and remembers it.

Oof.

1

u/umustknowgatsby Nov 18 '23

Lol girl math 😭😭

1

u/sebramirez4 Nov 18 '23

well in the comics her consciousness is actually present at the same time in all the different clones so in terms of her actual like conscious time it could make sense, still thought it was dumb though.

1

u/CelioHogane Nov 18 '23

I mean, depends on how your clones work.

Like if you get back your memories...

1

u/SandraGotJokes Nov 18 '23

How are people this invested in Kate and Rex? We barely saw them together.

1

u/Wuce_Brillis Nov 19 '23

I agree with the dying over and over but that part was stupid. I was never a fan of Kate’s in the comics either

1

u/Dragunlegend Nov 19 '23

It's the 200+ developer Riot experience argument again

1

u/CodenameXero Nov 20 '23

Right? This some Riot games “200 years” bullshit

1

u/nerdguy1138 Nov 20 '23

Parallel existence is still existence.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 20 '23

yeah and also her clones dont exist for that long anyway

1

u/Affectionate_Comb_78 Nov 21 '23

She experiences all of their lives and memories though, so it kind of is.

1

u/Sirenkai The Mauler Twins Nov 21 '23

I’m sure it doesn’t literally equal the same age but duplicating and living those lives would add up. And I think the bigger thing was she was talking about how she doesn’t know anyone else who knows how it feels to die.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '23

There's a lot of sus shit in this show.

We had robot and monster girl, And now we have a mortal in Duplikate.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '23

Even if that did count she'd have to have like a hundred of them going non-stop since birth.

1

u/Dangerous_West7073 Nov 23 '23

I assume it was because Kate somehow remembers all her clones memories and deaths.

1

u/HappyLofi Dec 26 '23

It does though. She can split into them all and read a book.

-1

u/Napalmeon Nov 17 '23

She said that she does not have to justify anything to him, but not only did she attempt to do that, but her comparison does not even work.