r/Invincible • u/mwthecool Omni-Mod • Nov 17 '23

Invincible [Episode Discussion] - S02E03 - This Missive, This Machination! EPISODE DISCUSSION

Episode 3 - This Missive, This Machination!

Mark starts his college career, Debbie struggles with personal trauma, and Allen the Alien returns home to find a new threat facing the Coalition of Planets.

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u/KBSinclair Doc Seismic Nov 19 '23

True, but you agree that Amber wasn’t completely faultless in the whole thing either, right?

No, I don't. Mark was the one lying. He should've been the one to come forward with the truth instead of stringing her along, making promises and letting her down without telling her the truth.

And sounds like she figured it out pretty quickly.

We don't know for sure when she did, but whenever that was doesn't justify Mark's continued behavior. Again, the impetus was on him to either break up with her or give her the choice to date a superhero or not. Doing neither makes him the asshole.

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u/Spider-Man-fan Nov 19 '23

But Amber was lying to him to about knowing he was Invincible. You don’t think that was wrong of her?

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u/KBSinclair Doc Seismic Nov 19 '23 edited Nov 19 '23

When? After they broke up, you think she was lying to hide her shock or something?

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u/Spider-Man-fan Nov 19 '23

Don’t you remember? When Mark finally reveals his identity, she said she already knew and knew for a while.

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u/KBSinclair Doc Seismic Nov 19 '23

Yes I remember, when did she lie? Do you think she didn't really know and was lying to save face?

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u/Spider-Man-fan Nov 19 '23

Oh no I don’t mean she was lying when she said that. I’m saying she revealed that she knew all along. That means she was hiding that from him that she actually knew. Prior to that, she was acting like she didn’t know.

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u/KBSinclair Doc Seismic Nov 19 '23

And... What, you want me to be upset at her for that? However she managed to figure it out, it wasn't really her place to initiate conversation on it. The impetus was always on Mark to get over whatever reason he had for not telling her, or to break up with her if he couldn't. It was his secret after all, it was for him to decide to tell or not. She gave him time, she didn't tell anyone, but the lies Mark told built up until she couldn't take it anymore.

No, Amber is not in the wrong in this situation. She was very patient given the circumstances and gave Mark the opportunity to open up himself and stop lying to her face of his own volition. But he didn't.

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u/Spider-Man-fan Nov 19 '23 edited Nov 19 '23

We might have to agree to disagree. I just don’t think the way she went about it was the best way. I believe that it was wrong of her to “test” him like that. She should have been upfront with him instead of basically stringing him along until he tells her. I think the impetus is on both of them. If she had a problem with him keeping it from her, then she should have been straightforward with him and said that. They were both in the wrong, as they were both keeping secrets from each other. What I found the most annoying was when she got angry with him in the college episode for “ditching” them when the cyborg was attacking, even though she knew he was changing into his costume. If that’s not manipulation, then I don’t know what is. She was clearly tricking him. She was deceiving him into thinking she didn’t know, even though she did, and I believe that’s wrong.

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u/KBSinclair Doc Seismic Nov 19 '23

Forcing him to come out with his secret would've been the wrong road. That's the sort of thing you do when you want a fight and the relationship is over, which she didn't, she was just done with him. Calling it a "test" implies she was dangling that knowledge over him, or trying to needle and pressure him into revealing it to her, which also would've been bitch moves that she didn't do. She gave him time to get to know her and be more comfortable around her so he could get over his baggage and stop lying to her about the promises he made and broke to her.

Amber did nothing wrong. It wasn't her secret to throw in his face or force a confrontation about, it was Mark's.

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u/Spider-Man-fan Nov 19 '23 edited Nov 19 '23

It wasn’t forcing him to tell her his secret. It was telling him that she already knows. She was hiding that from him, plain and simple. Don’t you agree that she was hiding that she already knew from him? Once she tells him, he can deny it. He has that choice. But at least she would be in the clear of any wrongdoing. And she can make the choice to break up with him there. In fact, she could have broken up with him as soon as she found out he was Invincible.

And I’m not saying Mark didn’t do anything wrong, just that they both did. Perhaps Mark was more in the wrong even. But Amber, while her reasons were understandable, still did something wrong. And it’s not throwing it in his face. That’s an immature way for her to go about it. She can respectfully tell him. Telling him doesn’t imply any force.

I’m not sure how else to break it down without repeating myself. Do you agree that she was hiding that she knew his secret? If so, do you agree that she pretended that she didn’t know? If so, do you agree that that behavior is called deception? If so, do you agree that deception is wrong? Which part is where you disagree? Maybe there are cases where you think deception is justified, such as this case. If so, let me know. I’m just trying to get to the root of where our disagreement lies.

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