r/todayilearned • u/MyKinkyCountess • 4d ago

TIL that Michelangelo spent two months hiding in the underground chamber while evading a death sentence ordered by the Pope

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/oct/31/michelangelo-secret-sketches-under-church-in-florence-open-to-public
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u/LupusDeusMagnus 4d ago

IIRC, Michelangelo worked on fortifications for the city after the Medici were deposed and the city was put to siege. They eventually forgave him, and he kept working on the chapel.

Basically he participated in military action against his patrons and got pardoned.

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u/TheUmgawa 4d ago

I was so hoping it was because Adam was hung like John Holmes, and the Pope sentenced Michelangelo to death unless he changed it to a more humble model.

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u/Yglorba 3d ago

Michelangelo was probably gay (or at least attracted to men), which adds a whole new dimension to that (and to the fact that he gave God an absolutely thicc ass on the Sistine Chapel Ceiling.)

He wrote a ton of erotic poetry to another man; when he died, his grand-nephew published it, but changed the pronouns to make it seem like they were addressed to a woman.

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u/Josgre987 3d ago

I always liked the theory that he was really bad at painting women and always made them masc because he didn't really like to look at them and basically just painted men with boobs.

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u/HaikuAficionado 3d ago

To be fair, as an artist, I started out only drawing women because that's what I found more enjoyable and aesthetically pleasing. But when I learned more and more I enjoyed drawing men more. Which maybe is the root cause of why a lot of the greats are gay lmao. Because at some point, men's body actually becomes harder to draw once you find out all the intricate workings of the body. And when you become intimate with the anatomy, the sense of beauty that it has will also affect you.

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u/Smartnership 3d ago

men with boobs.

He was a prophet

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u/sephkane 3d ago

Popular kink actually

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u/MirthMannor 3d ago

Ever see the Medici chapel in Florence, with the statues of naked women atop? Michelangelo did them. It’s clear to me that he had never seen a woman naked — they’re essentially men with badly placed bolt-ons.

Example: https://cdn.britannica.com/78/2578-050-E3AAE245/tomb-Giuliano-de-Medici-Michelangelo-San-Lorenzo.jpg

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u/Effective_Priority54 2d ago

that's wild 🤣 He knew women from the neck up and that's about it! I can't believe I never knew about this! Makes so much sense! It makes me so sad that people couldn't be who they truly were and unfortunately we still live in a world where people still feel like they can't be who they truly are. Also his great nephew changing the pronouns in his poems, I understand no one was ready at the time but grateful to know the real story now

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u/jacksonpsterninyay 3d ago

In what world was Michelangelo of all people not good at painting women? Is that a thing?

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u/Illithid_Substances 3d ago edited 3d ago

I don’t think any of them were Michelangelo but there are some old paintings and statues I've seen that look like the artist had a male model and then added breasts in a way that suggests they've never seen one, but have had them described to them. Add some internet misinformation and I can see them being attributed to the wrong artists

Actually scratch that, I found a Michelangelo one that demonstrates just what I mean. The left (statue's left) breast looks like it was taken from a different statue and just stuck onto the pecs

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u/ItsStaaaaaaaaang 3d ago

his grand-nephew published it, but changed the pronouns to make it seem like they were addressed to a woman.

Her phallus was like that of a great bronze bull. Her beard as full as my heart is for you.

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u/J1625732 3d ago

I lol’d at that, thanks! Keep up the poetry, you’re a natural

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u/OstrichSpecialist150 3d ago

😂🤣😂🤣😂

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u/fuglygay 3d ago

🤣🤣🤣

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u/skilriki 3d ago

“I swear to return your love. Never have I loved a man more than I love you, never have I wished for a friendship more than I wish for yours.”

You and I don't share the same definition of "probably"

Also, if you believe the old rumors, he was seeing pope Julius II who commissioned the Sistine Chapel painting

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u/Yglorba 3d ago

It's only "probably" because there's a slim possibility he was bi!

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u/ConstructionMather 3d ago

I heard Michelangelo was so gay that he had Lionardo Buonarroti with another man.

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u/Olama 4d ago

Andrelucci? How is it going with the painting?

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u/Occasionally_Correct 4d ago

Snitches get painted having their dick bitten off by a giant snake. 

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u/schmuber 4d ago

Stay horny, Reddit.

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u/Bi-elzebub 3d ago

John Holmes

Damn, I wasn't expecting mr. horsedick.

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u/GBreezy 3d ago

Back then having a small penis was a sign of masulinity and virility

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u/Gwilym_Ysgarlad 3d ago

I was born in the wrong time.

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u/Andromansis 3d ago

according to the bible women lust after horse sized penises that shoot donkeys or something.

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u/Asron87 3d ago

Hung like a donkey and shoots like a horse.

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u/Andromansis 3d ago

Right, and there was that one story of that guy that used his foreskin as a floatation device and everybody just said he was swallowed by a whale.

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u/MrBrigi 3d ago

Excuse me, what?

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u/TheUmgawa 3d ago

I believe that was the story of Nick Jonas and the Whale.

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u/Leon_Howser 2d ago

Didn't Catherine the great have a great fall..

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u/Th3_Hegemon 3d ago edited 3d ago

That's something people say about ancient Greece (it's also not really true see here), Michaelangelo lived ~2000 years later.

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u/TourAlternative364 3d ago edited 3d ago

That is where the phrase of Renaissance man came from. People like him and DaVinci would not only be painters, but sculptors, poets, inventors and architects. (Or military advisors.) 

(I swear I have a phone spell check that changes my words. Need to know how to give it a dictionary.)

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u/LiminalArtsAndMusic 4d ago

I thought it was because he made Lucifer too hot 

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u/Haebak 3d ago

That wasn't Michelangelo.

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u/IlllIlllI 4d ago

IIRC, Michelangelo worked on fortifications for the city after the Medici were deposed and the city was put to siege. They eventually forgave him, and he kept working on the chapel.

Or you could just... read the article and you wouldn't have to recall correctly:

It is widely believed that Michelangelo sought refuge in the room to hide from the Medicis, his former patrons, when the rulers returned to Florence after being banished into exile in 1527 by a popular revolt that the artist had joined.

During the family’s exile, Michelangelo served as supervisor of the city’s fortifications for the short-lived republican government. [...]

[...]

He was eventually pardoned by the Medicis and the sentence was lifted by the pope so that the artist could complete work on the Sistine Chapel and the Medici family tomb. Michelangelo left Florence for Rome in 1534.

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u/WhydYouKillMeDogJack 3d ago

But he's right, so why waste time reading the article?

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u/Nickmi 3d ago

"waste time reading the article"

Le sigh

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u/Direct_Bus3341 3d ago

Imagine being in a city and having so much drama that eventually you’re like nope, Rome’s better. Absolutely no intrigue in the Papal capital.

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u/jodhod1 4d ago edited 4d ago

Like how Socrates' was hanged by Athens for his links to the Oligarchs.

Edit: yes, I somehow got the hemlock part completely wrong. I bow in shame.

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u/RadicallyAmbivalent 4d ago

Socrates was made to drink poison for being accused of corrupting the youth of Athens, no?

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u/Thelonious_Cube 4d ago

Yes, but it is thought that the charge was referring to his having tutored some of the young men who took over the city.

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u/BobbyTables829 4d ago

The Sophists hated him

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u/Thelonious_Cube 3d ago

because this one weird trick

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Ingeniousskull 3d ago

"Magats" is genocidal agitation. Don't compare people to insects.

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u/Prof_Acorn 3d ago

Apologies. It's insulting to the fly larva, I know.

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u/Ingeniousskull 3d ago

I don't think you realize the incredible weight and seriousness behind calling any entire people group, no matter how repugnant you find them, maggots. It is historical preparation for mass murder.

I choose to believe you're just being willfully ignorant, and you don't actually believe that roughly 1/3rd of the US deserves the same fate as the Tutsi (who were called cockroaches) or the Jews (who were called 'vermin' and 'rats'). By just saying those words, by thinking you're being clever, you are committing the first step of genocide. Blood is already on your head.

You may argue that it's different because this is political, not racial, and that MAGA is extreme and evil therefor genocide is justified. If such a thought even crosses your mind, lock yourself in a dark room and don't leave until you can see the humanity in your enemies.

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u/Prof_Acorn 3d ago

Lol wut

Do you make up fiction for a living or just online?

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u/jodhod1 4d ago edited 2d ago

That's the sentence of it but as many historians have noted, the charge made little sense on its own. Why wouldn't you hang every philosopher on account of potentially saying something that might change their mind? One Google search, and I found a paper that I think presents most of my viewpoints on this subject.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.mcgill.ca/classics/files/classics/2006-7-03.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjDn6LKvv-GAxVfS2wGHQTIDVM4ChAWegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw3r1Au6QNfoYuKcahbFoFRc

One thing it doesn't mention, is Socrates' close relationship with Alcibiades, the man who overturned Athenian Democracy the first time around.

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u/craylash 3d ago

I liked how badass he looked in those renditions of him. He's all like "Yeah fuck it, take my shirt off idgaf"

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u/Clever_Mercury 4d ago

That's not what happened. Socrates committed suicide (or fulfilled his death sentence, depending on how you look at it) with hemlock after his notoriously public trial for impiety and "corrupting the youth" in Athens.

He asked his jury to either give him a lifetime of free meals at the Prytaneum for having been a teacher or to give him death. Arguably, he was killed BECAUSE he questioned the status quo, or those with traditional power.

His death is literally a template of martyrdom since he publicly and accepted the verdict of death, despite being given numerous chances to either be acquitted, have a lesser verdict, or even to escape after the verdict. His 'apology' speech [the word originally meant justification, not repentance] during the trial was basically him goading the public to vote for his death to prove a point; he was willing to die for the right to engage in philosophical discussion in pursuit of truth and did NOT want to be held accountable for how others (anyone, not the wealthy/powerful, not the 'commoners' ) manipulated those messages. Nor would he bow to the tradition of gods or those in power. He was thus judged impious.

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u/starlitepony 4d ago

While that's definitely more accurate, I much prefer this interpretation

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u/Argyle_Raccoon 3d ago

That’s great, I love that Meletus shows up. For my Greek philosophy class I wrote a dialogue, it was an option instead of a paper, from the point of Meletus arguing against Socrates.

I remember it felt incredibly easy, but also somewhat gross, to write; he just had such pigheaded views.

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u/Sleep-more-dude 3d ago

Nah, he is right; most key roles in the Tyranny were filled by Socrate's students ; he was executed for impiety etc because there was a general amnesty for participation in the Tyranny and it was used as a cover.

Plato alludes to this in either Phaedo or Apology if i recall; Thucydides covers the historical context of events in general.

Everyone likes a good story but Socrates character was really in the dirt at the time, his defense in Apology was that when he was told to do something by the Tyranny he simply ignored those orders, but that still didn't satisfy the public due to the mass deaths the Tyranny caused, this included some members of the jury who lost family members; despite these events being supposedly irrelevant due to the amnesty they still get brought up.

The main problem is usually that people who read philosophy won't read the surrounding history on this and most of the sources that wrote about Socrates e.g. Plato and Xenophon are connected to the Tyranny themselves (Critias is believed to be Plato's uncle).

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u/Direct_Bus3341 3d ago

Yes, I don’t get where this idea of him being a champion of free speech at the time comes from. He was pretty much an ideologue for the Tyrants and it’s an understatement to say he was in league with them. His political philosophy wasn’t idle, it guided those in power.

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u/Sleep-more-dude 1d ago

He definitely wasn't a champion of free speech, he goes through a whole list of things that should be censored in an ideal state in "The Republic"; he also definitely profited off people in power, though his own takes are generally very naive and idealistic.

Imo i would compare him to Marx in that he meant well but his ideas were seen through the prism of what other people did; the "thirty tyrants" were very much seen as "philosopher kings" by the general public at least. Of course we still remember men like Stalin at present but a few millennia from now maybe people forget him as they did Critias etc and Marx gets his own redemption arc, history is strange that way. (not a communist, just the closest parallel i can think of)

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u/Direct_Bus3341 20h ago

I generally agree, although I’d argue that the reading of Marx (let us consider it to be his idea of historical materialism) is coloured by Engels and later Lenin who advocate very strongly for vanguardism which Marx did not particularly support. Personally from my meagre reading I can say that it is Engels who ends up alienating the anarchists while Marx does not completely break with them. Perhaps it is like you said, Marx is remembered more in terms of those who “put his ideas in practice” like Lenin’s Bolsheviks and later, Mao. As for the philosopher kings people often forget how they were successful militarily and quelled domestic rebellion with an iron fist, a far cry from their journals which seem to be full of personal and not political advice. I often contend that the philosophical musings of, say, Marcus Aurelius are also what made him an effective ruler, and an effective ruler seldom rules without violence or elimination of political foes.

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u/Argyle_Raccoon 3d ago

Thanks for writing that all out, tracks with what I remember and now I don’t have to go look it up to remind myself!

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u/Thelonious_Cube 4d ago

Hanged? It's a pretty famous story.

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u/roberthinter 3d ago

It’s a 19th c painting.

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u/BigAl7390 4d ago

Socrates was well hung

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u/vonDubenshire 4d ago

FUCK Socrates and Plato.

Aristotle 4 Life

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u/IAMA_Plumber-AMA 3d ago

Diogenes though...

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u/Amaskingrey 3d ago

They are all good. But epicurus is an even more chad.