Name one legitimate reason for picking up a cooler that isn't yours from a boat that isn't yours that's sitting on a trailer that isn't yours which is parked on property that also most likely isn't yours.
So my wife got hit by the boom while sailing. As our boat is not that big, I had to move a cooler and a 7yr old out of the way to get to her. I assume all your boats are cooler free or you store them below deck.
If Im panicking, I might think theres first aid stuff in a cooler. I once watched someone headbutt the glass window to an unlocked pull open door of a fire extinguisher holding box. Yes, he got glass in his face. People get stupid in emergencies. Do we really want to make the problem worse by making your own little SAW trap?
I'm literally NONE of those scenarios is moving the cooler anywhere near necessary.
Fire? I'm what case would rescuer need to lift the cooler. Is the order Beer, women and children first?
Explosions? An explosion is a very immediate problem. Assuming it was an explosion that didn't eviscerate the area than why would you need the cooler? To destress with a beer?
Sinking? If I'm sinking why would I grab a cooler instead of say a life raft or any other buoyant object around
Let's say there is an emergency situation and you have to rescue a person on a boat. However, there are things on the boat. And some of these things are on the way to rescue said person.
Would you ignore all the things on the way and drag the person across whatever clutter you found, or would you clear the way first? If you're a first responder, would you clear the area for first aid or yolo around whatever is on the way?
In every example I gave, objects might be obstructing the way to help people, especially if they are unconscious. Be it a cooler, a chair, a table, a treasure chest, whatever.
An explosion could even blast the cooler off the boat into land or water. If someone would ever grab the cooler to take it off the streets or clear the water, they could potentially hurt themselves as well.
There are way more scenarios where some random and innocent person could hurt themselves - especially if they're trying to help you - than there are scenarios where you would prevent something from happening. Unless that something is trying to hurt someone.
That's completely alright. For the few that are legitimately on the fence on the subject or don't actually understand why that'd be a problem, hopefully my explanation was enough.
Nah. The reality is that people crave blood and want to see people suffer without having to consider basic empathy. You see it in any discussion of self-defense. People spend time and resources picking out the right tool that will be the most fun to dismember another human and act like you're insane for saying that running away is the safer move. They phrase their future self-defense claims as "I got to" instead of "I had to". Hell, look at Jordan Neely. People cheered a public execution because the guy "made people uncomfortable". It doesn't take much to make people support truly horrific acts against other humans, and the idea of "criminals" is just another way to other those and justify any amount of violence. Like cutting someone's fingers off because maybe they were trying to steal beer.
It doesn't take much to make people support truly horrific acts against other humans, and the idea of "criminals" is just another way to other those and justify any amount of violence.
So true. The same people who spend all day whining about high crime would hate to live in a crime free society, because then they couldn't satisfy their grotesque bloodlust.
They'd just want to see "crime" redefined. It's Nazi shit. Otherize groups, commit horrific acts, justify it based on theories about what they're totally planning to do, and then pick the next group. No hyperbole, it's the rhetoric and ideas that allow people to embrace violent fascism.
I'm playing devils advocate here, but technically if you open the lid of a cooler and flip it over its not a terrible flotation device depending on how large it is. Its all dependent on if the air trapped inside can offset your fatness.
If an accident of pretty much any type happens, things don't just disintegrate. Someone is gonna have to move them around at some point. If you are incapacitated, who's gonna disarm your boobytraps? Who's warning the helpers?
What if something happens while you're away? Are firefighters supposed to not touch anything and let it all burn down?
The whole point is to kill or maim somebody.
It's hidden so it doesn't prevent anything. Do you think it'll prevent the next person? Are you going to post pictures of what happened to the first guy?
oh my god why can't a single idiot on Reddit ever just say "oh, I didn't think of it like that but I see what you mean now. thanks for respectfully and cogently answering the question I definitely asked in good faith. I definitely DIDN'T snottily ask because I'm utterly convinced of my intellectual superiority and I'm definitely not butthurt to be proven wrong because I appreciate learning new things as they make me a wiser and more well rounded person."
there are tons of reasons people might accidentally engage the booby trap - people have already given you the most obvious examples like emergency first responders & kids. that's what you asked for. you thought there was " nO PoSsiBle LeGiTimaTe rEaSon" but hey look! you're wrong. get over it.
P.S. - even if someone is trying to steal your precious cooler, you can't maim them. that's not the legal punishment for thieves, like jfc who raised you? are you ok?? you can only attack someone in self defense and booby trapping is never that.
you're missing the point - nobody is talking about TAKING the cooler. you basically asked what reason would someone have to be there if they weren't trying to steal. well, emergency first responders would have legitimate reason! if you're trapped in the burning boat, the emergency first responders may need to move it to get to you to save you. that's only one example of many. nobody has the right to maim or injure unsuspecting people who have not done ANYTHING. "well, they were GONNA do something!!" is not an excuse. and it's a little psychotic.
Doesn’t matter, booby trapping anything in an attempt to injure or maim a thief, your dog, your neighbor, your best friend bill, the mailman, etc.. is a crime.
The tried and true reason that it wraps around to is that IF there is ever an emergency, people who are trying to help (first responders, bystanders, children and the like) can get severely injured.
Note: while most states don’t have a specific law addressing this, it falls under “liability for injury” laws most of the time.
That’s not a booby trap then. If I put razor wire on my fence to harm potential intruders, that’s a booby trap because the danger is hidden. If I put razor wire and then put a sign that says “caution, razor wire on fence” it’s no longer a booby trap because I’m letting people know of the danger.
Lawyer here, he is correct. Booby trapping is also a great way to get sued in civil court. One of the most famous torts cases in American history involved a spring loaded shotgun booby trap.
Using lethal force or force that can cause serious injury to protect property is a very bad idea and can land you in prison.
What if there was a clearly visible sign painted on/stuck on the cooler saying something like "DANGER! Extreme risk of injury, dismemberment, and/or death. Do not touch!" In several languages. Similar to what is on electric fences, high voltage equipment, and other dangerous things. Does that add some protection to liability?
No. It’s not a negligence action, so assumption of risk on the part of the injured party would not help you. Putting signs like that on natural hazards can protect you in negligence actions where you maintained hazardous conditions that were not intentionally set up to hurt someone. E.g., electric fence on a farm, frozen pond or lake where someone could fall through ice and drown, power plant, etc. If you intentionally booby trap something and it harms someone, you’ll be liable. All that those signs would do is show that you were aware of the serious injury risk posed, which could increase the severity of the associated criminal charge.
That doesn't even matter. Let's say there were no razors on the cooler, and somebody did steal it. What would be the proper punishment for that? I'm not a judge or lawyer, but the punishment would probably be a fine, community service, and maybe some jail time. The punishment does NOT include severe physical damage to the suspect's hands.
By gluing razors to the cooler, you've extrajudicially given cruel and unusual punishment for the crime at hand.
Here's a video about a particular case and why the court ruled against the homeowners who set up a spring-loaded shotgun as a booby trap.
Iirc, the case involved an old couple that inherited a house that they didn't have time to visit/maintain, and were only ever there a handful of days out of the year. Locals caught on, and would regularly rob the house since nobody was ever there. So in one of the rooms, they set up a shotgun aimed at the doorway, with a string attaching the door to the trigger.
A burglar triggered the trap, and was hit in the leg, causing him permanent damage. So after he served his time for the crimes he committed, and still suffered chronic pain from the injury, he sued the homeowners. He already paid his debt to society with the jail time, yet he was still being punished for the crime for the rest of his life.
It wasn't even that the couple was there a few days of the year. It was literally boarded up and had been vacant for a decade, with high weeds covering the house. The guys that triggered the trap thought the farmhouse was abandoned.
And for some reason, the owners thought this boarded up, dilapidated, weed covered old farmhouse that they didn't spend time in, was somehow important enough to defend with deadly force. And they didn't even express any remorse after. On the contrary, they remarked "There's one thing I'd do different, though: I'd have aimed that gun a few feet higher.". Some real sociopath shit.
Keep in mind that the community essentially failed to respect their property: they were worn thin. The punishment meted out to them was just, but please try not to dismiss their concerns as merely sociopathic. Picture not having much and not being able to sell a house you inherited and then everyone apparently just stealing shit to make it even more unsellable every time you do turn up, with the cops giving a shrug.
tbh if you are hoarding houses that you don't need, I don't care at all about it getting hit by burglars.. Like, sell it or at least rent it out. What were they going to do, just hold onto it and let it fall into disrepair until they die and someone has to tear it down?
I don't have the answer to that. But they were the legitimate property holders and on the road to them violating one of the perpetrators' constitutional right to a fair trial free from cruel and unusual punishment they were repeatedly robbed, to which - again - the community did nothing. They were failed, and you can see the chain of escalation.
Its like, the classic example because it is so easy to do. In 1882 someone patented it for a mousetrap (I'm not super well versed in boobytraps, but I googled it and this is the first thing that came up). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-powered_mousetrap
Strange that the law allows hiring a cretin like George Zimmerman to patrol your property but forbids a mantrap, which is arguably less likely to harm the innocent.
This is great, that fact that such a device COULD be used it has to be in specific circumstances just like regular self defense is described made me learn stuff today
I’m a civil trial lawyer, that case is extremely influential and is taught in every 1L torts class. You make good points.
Another consideration for people booby trapping: using lethal force to defend property is murder. Using force likely to cause serious injury to defend property can and will be charged as attempted murder. Do not do this.
You are a 10 year old child visiting a relative.
Should you have been playing on the boat? Probably not.
Is having your fingers cut off a reasonable punishment? Fuck no.
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I'm in the fuck around and find out camp.
The likelihood that a bunch of 2 yr olds show up and decide to play with your razor cooler, all coming away with bloody stumps where their fingers should be is pretty low.
Now, if you put the razor cooler out with a sign that says free cooler, that's some seriously sadistic shit and you should be made to face a jury of your piers.
He's chatting to his next door neighbour, having just affixed the razor blades to the coolers and, mid conversation, takes ill and falls unconcious. The neighbour is first aid trained, so he hops up on the boat and, in order to create room to perform CPR, moves a cooler out of the way. His hands are then cut open by razor blades.
Razor wire, if hidden in such a way that you wouldn’t know it was there and had no reason to believe it was, would definitely be illegal. For example, hanging razors at eye level in a forest.
I’m with this guy . Obviously he has had a constant problem with theft of his coolers before. He tried the “trust your neighbor” route, it shit on him and now he has referred to these measures.
I park my boat at public stare parks, I bring family and friends with. They help with boat loading and unloading. Say they are in the boat,and need to move a cooler. Well now I don't have friends after their hands get razored off, and they bleed out and die waiting 90 minutes for an ambulance.
Children don't follow the same rules of logic that an adult does, have the same concept of ownership and will do things for for very different reasons that do not line up with adult thinking.
Now name one legitimate reason that justifies your booby trap cuttiing and severly damaging the fingers of a child who very well have what they think is a legitimate reason for picking up a cooler that isnt theirs which is parked on their families or their neighbours property.
Because that's not the only context that cooler will ever exist in. Family comes over, curious kids go playing with the boat, oops, little timmy's in the hospital.
They're the victims when someone is intentionally targeting them or gross negligence, if you're using a gun properly for self defense that doesn't happen
It's more because causing intentional harm or death to another person is already a crime. Using a Rube Goldberg machine to stab someone with a knife is still stabbing someone with a knife no matter how many degrees of separation you pretend there are.
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There was a case 50 years ago involving someone booby trapping one of their vacant buildings with shotgun/tripline traps. A burger burglar got his leg blown off and the property owner had to pay him $30k.
The thing is, who's going to call the police and report something like that? "Hello police, I was stealing something and the owners booby trapped the thing I was stealing."
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u/stevegannonhandmade 5d ago
Guaranteed I would forget I did that after only like 5 minutes; then I'd cut my own fingers off!