r/politics • u/Murky-Site7468 • 6d ago

'Chill The F**k Out': John Fetterman Urges Democrats To Stick With Joe Biden | The Pennsylvania senator reminded panicked Democrats on Friday that he too had a bad debate once, yet he went on to win his Senate seat.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-debate-john-fetterman_n_667ea850e4b0415858d6a2f1
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u/essidus Minnesota 6d ago

The problem is that, right now, all of America believes that the Joe Biden we saw last night is an accurate reflection of how he is normally. If that's the case, we're in trouble.

Some people are saying that Biden has a cold or something. That might be (though it still doesn't reflect well on his cognitive function), but if that's true, Biden is going to prove it hard. He's going to need another extended public session showing how effective he really is. Otherwise, this debate is going to haunt him all the way up to the election.

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u/AdmiralSaturyn 6d ago

The problem is that, right now, all of America believes that the Joe Biden we saw last night is an accurate reflection of how he is normally.

People already perceived Biden as senile in the 2020 election and he still won.

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u/no_one_lies 6d ago

There’s a difference between Fox news touting it and seeing it for yourself on CNN

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u/AdmiralSaturyn 6d ago

People already saw it on CNN back in 2020. Don't tell me that you've already forgotten about Biden's senile gaffe's back in his 2020 campaign rallies and debates.

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u/no_one_lies 6d ago

2020 was an entirely different Biden

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u/AdmiralSaturyn 6d ago

Was it? People at the time already suspected that Biden had dementia. There was even a viral article (which immediately got deleted) back in 2020 that pondered the question of whether or not it mattered if the president had dementia.

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u/Mr_peanut_butterrr 6d ago

What we saw last night was not the Biden of 2020. I watched both, I’m not that old or a toddler. The left is gaslighting us into disaster

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u/AdmiralSaturyn 6d ago

What we saw last night was not the Biden of 2020.

So you say, I have yet to be presented evidence.

The left is gaslighting us into disaster

What are you talking about? The left is panicking just as much as you are.

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u/Mr_peanut_butterrr 6d ago

Evidence? I watched both. I was impressed with his policy acumen at points in 2020. Was he gaffe prone? Sure, he always was, but I have eyes and ears. That guy isn’t the same. Panicking? John Fetterman certainly isn’t, Obama certainly isn’t.. we need sustained political pressure from people with political capital publicly calling on him to step aside. This election is too consequential.

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u/AdmiralSaturyn 6d ago

Evidence? I watched both.

Did you watch when Biden once confused Xi Jingping for Deng Xiaoping? Because that actually happened back in the 2020 election.

Panicking? John Fetterman certainly isn’t, Obama certainly isn’t.. 

First of all, Obama and Fetterman aren't leftists, they're liberals. Second of all, ofc Fetterman isn't panicking. He had a stroke and then performed abysmally in his debate with Dr. Oz, and he still ended up with a crushing victory. Another thing to keep in mind is that Hillary Clinton did very will in her debates back in 2016, and she lost. Debates aren't decisive.

 we need sustained political pressure from people with political capital publicly calling on him to step aside.

NO. That's a terrible idea. That would mean sacrificing the advantage of the incumbency, among other keys to the White House.

This election is too consequential.

That's exactly why we shouldn't give up the advantages that only Biden has.

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u/Mr_peanut_butterrr 6d ago

When I say left, I generally mean people left of center, not necessarily “leftist”. I forgot how many labels exist in 2024. Apologies for the confusion. I said he was gaffe prone, always has been, but I remember watching his town hall and while disjointed I generally thought there was consistent substance and could follow the gist. He could really get in the policy weeds at points. It was generally coherent with a little incoherent mixed in. Last night was incoherent, with a little coherent mixed in.

Unfortunately, you are placing 2008 political paradigms on an electorate that no longer exists. The incumbent advantage means less and less as polarization continues to take hold. Trumpism and tribalism has altered the political landscape. 40-45% aren’t voting for the other candidate regardless. We need to be targeting the soft 5-10%. The same soft 5-10% that is worried about the exact thing they saw with their own eyes and ears last night.

We’re in trouble… is what I’m proposing ideal? Not even close. But pretending “everything is fine” is going to end in disaster.

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u/AdmiralSaturyn 6d ago

Last night was incoherent, with a little coherent mixed in.

You're forgetting that Biden gave a surprisingly positive and highly coherent speech in the last State of the Union address. I have yet to fully watch his new post-debate campaign event in North Carolina. Let me know if Biden sounds incoherent here. So far, as I watch this, he sounds coherent.

Unfortunately, you are placing 2008 political paradigms on an electorate that no longer exists.

Unfortunately, you are omitting the fact that the Keys model correctly predicted Trump's victory in 2016 and Biden's victory in 2020.

 But pretending “everything is fine” is going to end in disaster.

Nobody is pretending that last night's debate wasn't a disaster, we are saying that debates aren't decisive.

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u/Mr_peanut_butterrr 6d ago

The State of the Union and a debate are two different things. A debate requires mych more mental acuity, wit than a rehearsed speech. Sure, he had spurts of unscripted, strong candor, but the bar was on the floor. As of 24 hours ago, I thought he would walk to re-election, but I also understand current political realities.

Honestly, I could give two fucks about “Keys model”. I’m stating that we’re entrenched as an electorate, and the people he needed to target walked away AT BEST much less likely to support him. Conventional political wisdom is dead, one of our candidates is a convicted felon, the other is 82. Historical precedent works until it doesn’t.

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u/AdmiralSaturyn 6d ago edited 6d ago

First of all, Vaush is panicking about last night's debate. Second of all, I don't watch Vaush very often. Third of all, do you have anything of substance to say besides ad hominem attacks? Here's something of substance for you. So, let's try this again and let's try to talk like mature adults. What evidence do you have that Biden is getting substantially worse? Are you already forgetting his last State of the Union Address? You should also watch his post-debate campaign event in North Carolina. Are your concerns about Biden's electability based on factual concerns or based on irrational panic?

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