r/nottheonion • u/JeffRVA • 3d ago
Oklahoma state superintendent announces all schools must incorporate the Bible and the Ten Commandments in curriculums
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/us/oklahoma-schools-bible-curriculum/index.html1.4k
u/AshuraBaron 3d ago
"Everyone should be forced to read the Bible and learn it's valuable lessons." - Man who hasn't read the Bible
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u/SelectiveSanity 3d ago
"Its what our Founding Fathers wanted!" - Man who hasn't read the Constitution. Also the same guy.
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u/DeadPoster 3d ago
"The Bible is the most potent force for Atheism ever conceived." --Isaac Asimov
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u/jayydubbya 3d ago
I always liked āthe only people who actually read the bible are atheists and priests.ā
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u/Khavary 3d ago
you would be surprised by the amount of priests that are atheists
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u/jayydubbya 3d ago
Had an ex priest friend at my old job who quit because he wanted to bang women and told me there is no hell. Great guy miss him.
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u/Alexis_J_M 3d ago
The best Bible teacher I ever had was an atheist. But she knew the Book of Kings backwards and forwards...
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u/zenfrodo 2d ago
Heh. All I can remember is our religion teacher (Catholic High School, cool young priest teaching the required "religion" class) telling us that reading the Bible ourselves was important, so we knew what it actually said, instead of relying on what other folks claimed.
So yeah, OK, let the English Lit teachers have a go at the Bible. I don't think that means what you think it means. š
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u/drch33ks 3d ago
The Bible is full of great life lessons, like how severely you can beat your slaves without being in the wrong.
And the appropriate price to pay a father to marry his daughter after you rape her.
And also when it is and is not appropriate for women to speak in the presence of men.
Not sure why anyone would want to get their morals from any other source. /s
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u/Born_Ad_4826 3d ago
Also... The bible is like... Really long. Like high school kids won't even read Grapes of Wrath... And now that clonker?
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u/Misternogo 3d ago
Not to mention huge sections that are just genealogies. Just who begat who, over and over and over.
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u/JavaJapes 3d ago
I attended a private Christian school. I remember in elementary school, teachers just telling us not to read Song of Songs/Song of Solomon. So of course many of them immediately did... but like, how ironic that there's parts of your book you don't want your kids reading until a certain age.
But reading the verses with the examples you gave and worse from elementary school was totally fine lol
I remember Ezekiel 23:20 coming to mind as one that teachers hated kids bringing up.
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u/hgs25 2d ago edited 2d ago
Funny thing, when Utah banned books with sexual themes and violence from schools, they accidentally banned the Bible too. When Librarians started removing the book in compliance with the law, it went to court. The judge sided with the librarians because they were complying with the law.
Utah then made a special exception for the Bible.
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u/IxI_DUCK_IxI 3d ago
I particularly like the story of Jesus 2.0. He rose from the dead and it took them 40 days to validate who he was. 40 days! What were they doing? Feats of strength? Jeopardy quizzes? Guess what card Iām holding? They couldnāt find one person who recognized him?
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u/dalerian 2d ago
Must have been a lot of people out there walking on water, raising the dead and so on.
Easy to get them mixed up.
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u/PowerhousePlayer 3d ago
Look, he just had, like, a really forgettable face, okay? Probably why the Romans needed someone to identify him with a kiss instead of just rolling up to the guy who was known for giving big sermons and doing actual magicĀ
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u/tronfacekrud 2d ago
Not to mention all the free BBQ for the rabbi's after you commit a sin, such as being a woman on her period.
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u/deadsoulinside 3d ago
Start with Ezekiel 23
https://biblehub.com/niv/ezekiel/23.htm
Let's see how long they want to play that game.
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u/CrippleWitch 3d ago
What is this actually saying? Samaria and Jerusalem turned away from the god Yahweh when theyā¦ what let peoples of other nations and religions live and worship there but then made them stop? So now those peoples will be turned against the cities and do the whole burn/rape/pillage thing?
Also why are breasts and bosoms treated like they are two separate things to be fondled and defiled? Iām not getting the metaphor the writer seems to just want to really hate on prostitutes.
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u/UndeadDemonKnight 2d ago
NGL - This is a pretty sweet passage: "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses"
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u/deadsoulinside 2d ago
Yeah, 23:20 is the really known verse that most people somewhat know of off the top of their head. The NIV version of the bible seems to be more "Detailed oriented" versus the King James version of Ezekiel 23.
The whole thing reads more like 50 shades of grey for desert people.
We need to highlight that the people who claim the bible is fit for teaching, really don't know what is in that bible beyond the selected passages their preachers have been using for the past 50 years.
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u/tman37 3d ago
Everyone should read the Bible because it's a foundational document of our society. It's is full of valuable lessons in the form of our cultural myths. Also, far too many people talk about the Bible yet have no idea what it actually says. I also think people should learn the history of the Bible, the difference between the Old and New Testaments particularly how it went from a bunch of religious writings to "The Bible".
I don't know how they think this will work. Even if the whole separation of church and state thing wasn't am issue, you have to include other religious. Does that mean teaching the Koran? The Batva Ghita? Dianetics?
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u/JWAdvocate83 3d ago edited 3d ago
Some foreseeable problems. First, like youāve mentioned, the curriculum would need to allow for instruction on all religions, to avoid implicitly endorsing one or some over others. And even if that were possible, it could be seen as tacit endorsement of religion belief/worship, as oppose to atheism or agnosticism. The State could make such classes optional, but the funding would have to come from somewhereāthough funding isnāt always dispositive. (E.g. Some state courts [Edit: Including Oklahoma] reject Stateās authority to post Ten Commandments in a public place, even if paid for privately.)
Second, youād run into issues of interpretation. There have been wars fought over religious interpretation. What happens when a student disagrees with any given interpretations by the curriculumās material, or a teacher, or another student? Not necessarily a dispositive problem if strictly examining ānuts-and-boltsā of a document, but even what that would constitute would be up to interpretation.
Related to that one, and this is a big one, what happens when the State teaches one thing, while your church or temple teaches another? Your minister is nice and everything, but heās not grading youāyour teacher is. But if your minister tells you that your teacher is a heretic, and you risk eternal damnation if you keep learning from them instead, what are you gonna do? Thatās a lot of conflicting pressure to put on a K-12 kiddo, and a minister may resent the State using its power like the King/Church of England used to.
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u/trollsmurf 3d ago
I doubt they recognize any other religion than Christianity. It has Jesus after all.
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u/BrainChemical5426 3d ago edited 3d ago
I agree, but this is too heavy for primary schooling. Electives in high school, perhaps. I for one would have loved to learn stuff like the Itihasas in high school, let alone the Hebrew and Christian bibles. But mandatory bible lessons? Iām not sure. Those resources are better spent on history or literature courses (the importance of the bible to the western literary canon not withstanding).
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u/thebeandream 3d ago
This sounds cool in theory but in practice no one takes the time to understand Judaism and it ends up being āthis is Christianity before Jesus! So bad right?ā But it completely ignores the cultural context and how the Jewish people interpret the text. For example a person above pointed out how much you have to pay if you rape a girl. What it doesnāt show is the fact that sex is a womanās right and not a manās. In that arrangement he basically has been set up to take care of her for life while she isnāt required to do anything in return. Itās not great but itās better than what most assume. Christianity, specifically Paul and not Jesus, stated that women must āsubmit to their husbandsā and green lighting marital rape.
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u/BrainChemical5426 3d ago edited 3d ago
Even then, I think Paul didnāt say that. Not because of any apologism or anything - but because the sexist epistles are considered by modern scholarship to be forgeries written in Paulās name rather than genuine Pauline writings. In the undisputed Pauline epistles, Paul appears to approve of female authority within the church (he refers to Phoebe as a deaconess for example, although sexist translations like the English Standard Version refuse to properly translate this and decide instead to refer to her as a servant), as well as some kind of gender abolitionism (āthere is neither male nor female in Christā).
Thereās a contradiction if all of it is genuine Pauline writings, not supposing that he could have simply changed his mind over time anyway (in either direction, really). This is perhaps the problem with the majority of the New Testament being other peopleās mail.
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u/tman37 3d ago
The early church had lots of female leaders. They were very involved in the early speading of Christianity.
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u/woah_man 3d ago
I'll preface this by saying I completely disagree with the following argument. On NPR recently, the lawyer for the 10 commandments in school made the argument that the 10 commandments were important to the country in a historical context. Like because they were important for the history and tradition of this country, that made it okay to display the 10 commandments in school because the supreme Court tossed out the Lemon test (previous supreme court standard for cases like this) when they ruled on the football coach praying at games.
He's basically saying the current supreme Court has opened the floodgates on stuff like this, and they're leaning in to say Christianity is important to the history and tradition of the country while other examples (like what you listed) don't fit that criteria.
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u/Combat_Armor_Dougram 2d ago
The people who try to force the Bible on us will give up when we actually read the Bible and realize that it goes against everything they said.
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u/MillennialsAre40 2d ago
Hey there's an awful lot in here about helping the poor and how capitalism is evil...
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u/wanawachee 2d ago
Even a bit about paying your taxes and not using your religion to fleece people.
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u/JeffRVA 3d ago
āāEvery classroom in the state from grades 5 through 12 must have a Bible and all teachers must teach from the Bible in the classroom, Walters said.ā
Somehow Iām guessing there will be some things they wonāt be teaching- https://www.patheos.com/blogs/jaysondbradley/2018/07/terrible-things-the-bible-clearly-says/
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u/CatPesematologist 3d ago
Trying to figure out what this has to do with algebra, chemistry, etc.
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u/Hips_of_Death 2d ago
Those arenāt in the bible! So obviously they wonāt be included in the new curriculum /s
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u/Throwawayac1234567 3d ago
its simple they just say the bible has to be the answer to all those quesitons. Ill be surprise they are teach
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u/cryptosupercar 3d ago
If I were a teacher being forced to do this I would start every day with Ezekiel 25:17.
āThe path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil menā¦ā
Read the Bible, check.
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u/bbressman2 3d ago
I think my favorite part is when god told the golden child Abraham that itās ok to rape his slave since he couldnāt get his wife pregnant.
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u/Ezekiel_29_12 3d ago
I don't think that's how the story went. I think Sarah was exasperated and said to use Hagar, and Abraham wasn't supposed to but did anyway. God was very clear that Sarah would get pregnant even though she was already ancient, and they got impatient.
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u/bbressman2 3d ago edited 2d ago
Youāre right i misremembered that part but Abramās wife got mad at Hagar for something she said to do and after Hagar fled (Gen 16:7) an angel told Hagar to go back and give in to the abuse. I donāt know, there is a lot of wild shit in the Bible, definitely doesnāt belong in schools or our government.
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u/SCP-Agent-Arad 3d ago
āToday kids, we will be looking at illustrations based on Song of Solomon.ā
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u/Beezel_Pepperstack 3d ago
The same idiots who support this would be flipping out and crying about the first amendment if the schools were forcing their kids to read the Quran.
Fucking hypocrites.
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u/-tobi-kadachi- 3d ago
Always projecting. Conservatives have been crying that the quran would be forced on kids for the past 8 years without any rhyme or reason and of course the first real attempt to force religion on kids in school comes from the chuds who make up bogey men to project onto.
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u/NightOfTheLivingHam 2d ago
the rationale is that once they make that claim, they push the bible and say "Well we did it because *they did it first* so it's only fair!"
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u/CondescendingShitbag 3d ago
The same idiots who support this
Talibangelicals or Y'all-qaeda, take your pick.
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u/DisturbingPragmatic 3d ago
49th in education but yeah...concentrate on this.
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u/BigMeal69 3d ago
Oklahoma superintendent needs to RETIRE NOW. The very definition of "you need to get your shit together."
Somehow, I don't think the Bible is the answer to American illiteracy. Which is all they should fucking care about right now imo
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u/smilelaughenjoy 3d ago
If you are an atheist or someone of another religion, I think you should teach your children about the errors and inaccuracies of the bible so they won't get brainwashed.Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā
The supreme court justices seem very biased, in my opinion, and I think they might allow corruption to happen where freedom of religion is not respected.
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u/androgenoide 3d ago
Teaching about the problems with the Bible is teaching the Bible isn't it? I'm sure a teacher could follow the state guidelines and still teach hard atheism.
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u/SCP-Agent-Arad 3d ago
The Supreme Court just ruled that bribery is legal, so they are very much not hiding their bias anymore.
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u/Everythings_Magic 3d ago
Iād rather teach science, you know, the pursuit of the truth.
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u/oblex1312 3d ago
"Okay kids, today we're learning about hypocrisy. I'm going to pick a random page and we're going to find all the ways in which our Superintendent does not embody or abide by any of it." - OK Teachers probably
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u/B9MB 3d ago
At what point is someone going to sue these people for flat out ignoring the separation of church and state?
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u/JohnnyValet 3d ago
They lost a similar case on Tuesday!
Oklahoma court rejects proposed religious public charter school June 25, 2024
The Oklahoma Supreme Court on Tuesday rejected a proposed state-financed Catholic charter school, saying the first-of-its-kind religious public school violated the state and U.S. constitutions.
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u/BrandonStRandy08 3d ago edited 3d ago
Nothing happens. Look up Kitzmiller v Dover SD. The fundie Dover school board tried sneak in teaching Creationism (calling it Intelligent Design), they were sued immediately, and the Bush appointed judge sided with the ACLU without even blinking an eye. Even though several board members lied under oath during the trial, nothing happened. Like abusive cops, until the people that are pulling this BS have to pay out of their own pockets, nothing will change.
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u/tangtheconqueror 2d ago
This is what they want. The whole point of this is to get it in front of the Supreme Court, which will say it's completely fine.
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u/That1-guyukno 3d ago
āThe Bible keeps telling us to love and care for each other itās just sickā - conservative republicans
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u/Alexis_J_M 3d ago edited 3d ago
Some friends of mine went to a public school that started a practice of students volunteering to read parts of the Bible over the PA in the morning.
Instead of complaining, they all volunteered.
One read the long list of begats in Genesis.
The second read the description of smearing around the blood and fat after a Temple sacrifice.
The third read the story of Judah and Tamar.
The Bible reading was then cancelled.
(These days I'd also make sure to read Exodus 21 with the description of the abortion drug.)
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u/Ok-Abbreviations88 3d ago
WTF is wrong with these people? They want the christian version of Sharia Law.
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u/ABlindManPlays 3d ago
I am a Christian, and I am 100% opposed to this. I also support the removal of tax-free statuses for churches, as they are just businesses these days. This is absolutely religious extremism and should be fought in all forms. This country is a melting pot of beliefs and heritages and none should stand above another in any form of government or teaching.
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u/Gamemode_Cat 2d ago
If your church is a business, youāre at the wrong church.Ā
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u/Scarface74 2d ago
The average church spends 60-80% of their budget on the maintenance of the church and salaries.
They are mostly businesses
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u/supercyberlurker 3d ago
Malicious Compliance comes to mind.
"So this is the bible, and these are the ten commandments that authoritarian fundamentalist zealots claim to live by but don't."
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u/Alacritous13 3d ago edited 2d ago
Is this a blank check to teach anything that's in the bible??? Because I've already sent kids home with questions about the bible that concerned parents. I was a bible camp councilor, I got into way to many details about the story of Samson
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u/FlippingPossum 3d ago
Haha. The retired pastor at my church made questionable content choices. I drew the line at showing The Passion of the Christ to my daughter.
Me: That's rated R. She's not allowed to watch it.
Him: shocked Pikachu face
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u/HoopOnPoop 3d ago
I don't think they even actually think this will take effect. What the right wants is for this to get challenged and struck down in court so they can parade all over claiming they are being persecuted. Then they'll use that as both a dog whistle and a fundraising tool to drum up support for their christian nationalism agenda.
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u/Gildenstern2u 3d ago
Time to take stock of the spicier verses in the Bible. Hit me Reddit!!
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u/Sablestein 3d ago
She lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose semen was like that of horses. (Ezekiel 23:20)
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u/So_spoke_the_wizard 3d ago
It just goes to show that the biggest threat to democracy is christianity.
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u/Gamemode_Cat 2d ago
Oklahoma here: We hate Ryan Walters, we want him out, heās trying to do a bunch of noisy stuff because he wants a job in Washington if trump wins.Ā Iām a Christian, and I think this is stupid. Itās politics, not Christianity
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u/tacochemic 3d ago
Itās a disease and itās only going to grow. All Christian brothers and sisters need to hold their own accountable. You worship the same god, you can still their voices and silence them. What message do you want your religion to represent? because the loudest voice is the message we all hear and it isnāt one of peace, love and forgiveness.
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u/brennanfee 3d ago
Which will, of course, be ignored because it is obviously woefully unconstitutional.
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u/AngrySmapdi 2d ago
Very, very, brave of Oklahoma to openly declare that the Bill of Rights is meaningless. That's probably not going to go over well with the public when they realize that means they no longer have 2A rights.
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u/Jennyfurr0412 2d ago
If you want to make a bunch of kids atheist I can't think of anything more effective than giving them a Bible and forcing them to read it.
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u/MattWolf96 3d ago
Cool, will the kids get to read about Lot's daughters raping him and Onan cumming on the ground?
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u/ugheffoff 3d ago
Itās shit like this that makes me wonder why people are still having kids and bringing them into this shitshow of a world.
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u/FlippingPossum 3d ago
As a Christian, pushing this one people is whack. Continue teaching about ALL religions in history. If the kids are learning critical thinking (eternal optimist, here), they are going to be pushed away from forced religion.
My oldest thinks Jesus is based, but isn't a fan of church. My youngest chose not to be confirmed. Lutherans (ELCA) be like....cool. cool. Your choice.
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u/Blushrecorder1967 3d ago
Iām giving a talk about Hagar, the slave of Sarah and Abraham. She is sex trafficked. The Old Testament/Hebrew text has many such stories. Iād like to see how the school will address this.
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u/griffinicky 3d ago
Gonna be a lot of talks about donkey dicks and how to induce an abortion. Oh well.
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u/SetterOfTrends 3d ago
Read the Bible as a fiction if you want.
Read the Ten Commandments as a revision of the Laws of Hammurabi.
No problem with them teaching creationism as long as they also teach that science proves the world is more than 6000 years old.
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u/Spongman 2d ago
If the federal government can enforce a defacto national drinking age, why canāt it enforce keeping religion out of public schools?
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u/asbeaver 2d ago
As a math teacher maybe I'll have students calculate the percent of the 10 commandments that are purely about God's ego...
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u/Fetlocks_Glistening 3d ago
Today we'll be talking about the plague of frogs.
Who knows what's a plague of frogs?
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u/ICLazeru 3d ago
I'ma teach Judges 19. A part of the Bible few people seem to talk about, perhaps because it involves allowing innocent people to die painfully so that their death can then be used to justify genocide. And yeah, the way I just said it is way nicer than what is actually in there.
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u/maybeinoregon 3d ago
They better incorporate The Flying Spaghetti Monster too, or Iām suing for discriminationā¦
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u/pichael289 3d ago
This is great, they now need to incorporate all the Muslim and Hebrew beliefs into their curriculum. The Muslim stuff will cause Christians to oppose this really fast.
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u/Peaceout3613 2d ago
Like Louisiana, Oklahoma is a "bottom of the barrel" state with legislature apparently entirely incompetent to move the needle even slightly on their myriad of issues, but hey can waste taxpayer money on BS like this. Just completely garbage human beings. I call them "The Church of the Whited Sepulchral".
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u/1950sClass 2d ago
I said it when I graduated basic training, and I'll say it again. Fuck Oklahoma. Your state smells of shit.
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u/Nixeris 2d ago
This is 100% a ploy to get the Supreme Court to overturn their ruling on prayer in school.
The idea is that you make an absolutely ridiculous law or rule so that someone will challenge it. Then you petition it to the Supreme Court, where the Conservative majority has been overturning rulings left and right.
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u/AdministrativeBank86 2d ago
And how do you plan on enforcing that edict you god addled cretin
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u/SokkaHaikuBot 2d ago
Sokka-Haiku by AdministrativeBank86:
And how do you plan
On enforcing that edict
You god addled cretin
Remember that one time Sokka accidentally used an extra syllable in that Haiku Battle in Ba Sing Se? That was a Sokka Haiku and you just made one.
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u/Rohri_Calhoun 3d ago
Does incorporating the Bible include disproving and debating the laws of the Bible? And including all versions of the Bible? In the original Hebrew/Greek/Latin? The Bible was definitely meant to be read in the original language.
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u/danecookofmods 3d ago
Welcome to Christianity 101. Next semester, we'll cover right-wing extremism and how to start a small business to appeal to extremism to make easy money.
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u/readysteadygogogo 3d ago
Hereās the thing: he knows this will fail. Itās designed to fail. He knows it will get smacked down by the courts at every level including the Supreme Court. All heās doing is posturing for the cameras so he can make a sizzle reel for when he runs for congress. Heāll campaign as a conservative hero and those idiots will eat it up.
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u/Familiars_ghost 3d ago
Somehow I think Reservation schools will start producing better students and grades than general public or private schools. Go Natives!
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u/Humble_Wind_5058 3d ago
What happened to separation of church and state?
Will they be teaching all religions?? You going to force Jewish children or Arab children to sit there and learn another religion.
Insane
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u/CommunityGlittering2 2d ago
I remember learning about gods in school, the class was called Mythology and we were not taught that they were facts, I'd be ok if they treated the Bible like that.
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u/Pittedstee 2d ago
These people have never read their bibles. Most christians just flip to the flowery parts they have bookmarked (love thy neighbor, all things through christ) and skip over all the other turds floating around in that cespool of human misery.
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u/Vegetable_Quote_4807 2d ago
I think most of them skip over the love thy neighbors part.
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u/revchewie 2d ago
"The Bible is an indispensable historical and cultural touchstone,ā Walters said in the release. āWithout basic knowledge of it, Oklahoma students are unable to properly contextualize the foundation of our nation."
Wow! Nice way to try to end-run around the 1st amendment religious issues. "Oh, we're not forcing any religion on anyone, it's historical!" Fucking christo-fascists!
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u/No_End_8410 8h ago
It's the next in a long history of non-starter legal policies that politicians use to rile up their base after being shot down by the court. Politicians don't care whether the bible is in schools; they care that their base votes with zealotry when the Constitution disagrees with what their pastor tells them the Constitution should state instead.
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u/ghandi3737 3d ago
I'm guessing it doesn't say it must be a favorable opinion of the bible, considering the penchant for not thinking how all the rules are laid out by people who do this kind of thing.
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u/EnjoiThatGinge 2d ago edited 2d ago
The US is absolutely wild, so blessed I wasn't born in such a shit hole country
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u/Ohif0n1y 3d ago
Let's take a look at a story and apply what we know of human nature to it. I'm betting Lot raped his daughters and not the other way around. I also bet he killed his wife because he likely let it slip that he wanted to commit incest with them and she got mad and wanted to protect them from their father.
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u/Greyboxer 3d ago
Add to the curriculum the 10 commandments for the purpose of teaching how fucking dumb the Bible is
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u/Wazootyman13 3d ago
Would "Okay, and here's some bullshit from the bible!" qualify as integrating it?
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u/nerankori 3d ago
"And the first thing this Bible will teach us is the combustion point of paper."
"Is it 451 degrees Fahrenheit,ma'am? There was like,a whole novel about that."
(tossing Bible aside) "Well fuck that then."
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u/Aleyla 3d ago
JFC this is insane.