r/Invincible • u/mwthecool Omni-Mod • Nov 17 '23

Invincible [Episode Discussion] - S02E03 - This Missive, This Machination! EPISODE DISCUSSION

Episode 3 - This Missive, This Machination!

Mark starts his college career, Debbie struggles with personal trauma, and Allen the Alien returns home to find a new threat facing the Coalition of Planets.

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850

u/mmcintoshmerc_88 Battle Beast Nov 17 '23

Screw it, change the name to Shapesmith's show now.

524

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

I hope they do something with Shapesmith. He's okay in small doses, but I don't really like the character yet. Plus it's hard to believe that the Guardians just took him in despite knowing nothing about him.

I get that he's comic relief right now, but comic relief should still be consistent with the logic of the show. For example, the magic dog gag was excellent because it was silly and made sense in the context of the show.

671

u/_Valisk Nov 17 '23

hard to believe that the Guardians just took him in despite knowing nothing about him

He's a normal human superhero, what else do you need to know

80

u/DW-4 Nov 17 '23

Jackie Daytona, normal human bartender from Tucson Arizonia

13

u/ThatHeathGuy Nov 17 '23

The previous owner mysteriously disappeared (because I killed him)

49

u/michealcowan Nov 17 '23

Cecil 100% knows he's a martian

26

u/karateema Abraham Lincoln Nov 17 '23

"Hey we got an astronaut from that mission on Mars that's been acting weird, we also got a new shapeshifting superhero acting like he doesn't know what humans act like; you think there's something going on?"

3

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '23

We haven't even seen Cecil talk about him. Does he even know?

9

u/michealcowan Nov 18 '23

It's never confirmed, but it would be out of character if he didn't. An astronaut returns to earth with shape changing powers and forgets how to act human. I also think the reason he's allowed on the team is so Cecil can keep an eye on him. It also should be noted that Cecil keeps important information to himself until absolutely necessary.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '23

Problem is it's also out if character for someone that obviously an alien to be left to his own devices at all.

Though suppose they could have been keeping tabs on him

2

u/michealcowan Nov 18 '23

Could be trying to see if he has any ulterior motives before he reveals that he knows. Easier to catch a slip up/gather info when a suspect doesn't know they're being watched. Cecil did a similar thing with Nolan, though that was more out of necessity.

1

u/withoccassionalmusic Nov 20 '23

I feel like Immortal has probably figured out that something suspicious is going on as well.

26

u/ThatOtherGuyTPM Invincible Nov 17 '23

Where is he from?! Seriously!

56

u/brownbubbi Nov 17 '23

Planet earth USA

15

u/sjwillis Nov 17 '23

Just A Regular City, Nebraska State

1

u/tinning3 Nov 23 '23

Powers gained from "random industrial accident", too.

193

u/LMkingly Nov 17 '23

Plus it's hard to believe that the Guardians just took him in despite knowing nothing about him.

Yeah this seems super weird to me. Can any random guy with super powers just join up? No thorough background checks or anything required? I thought Cecile was more careful than that.

154

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

Yeah, it be passable if Cecil and Immortal weren't in charge, but neither of them would allow some stranger to join.

And did the writers forget that there was a whole interview process to join the Guardians in season 1? It took up a whole episode lol. Season 2 has been incredible except for the Shapesmith stuff, which just feels off. Hopefully there's some big payoff or it's not how it seems.

96

u/finnjakefionnacake Nov 17 '23

that was how robot handled things, that isn't necessarily how things work in general.

161

u/DoctorJJWho Nov 17 '23

Honestly Immortal might just actually know Shapesmith is a Martian; he worked with one closely before so is probably somewhat familiar with their quirks and how they attempt to be human.

27

u/Lucifer_Crowe Nov 17 '23

I'm confused he isn't pretending to be Martian Man back from the dead or something tbh. He saw a Martian accepted among humans and then... kept pretending?

25

u/macedonianmoper Nov 17 '23

Seriously he saw Martian man was revered as a hero, so he decides to be a hero but keep pretending he's human?

4

u/Lucifer_Crowe Nov 17 '23

Yeah it massively confused me.

17

u/LinuxMatthews Nov 17 '23

He might just really want to be human

After everything that went down on Mars he might just enjoy not being a Martian

8

u/SalvadorZombie Nov 18 '23

I said this on a different part of this page - expect that kind of thing from Kirkman, from large story beats down to this kind of "I thought he'd be okay as a Martian now" thing. You see him watch that news story. You see him go "Oh, cool!" But no, he just realized that he could be a superhero with his powers, not that he could be a MARTIAN superhero.

2

u/Reggiardito Nov 17 '23

Yeah this was exactly what I expected to happen but instead comic relief human guy.

5

u/sephtis Nov 18 '23

I don't think mr "imma drive a wedge in the team by instantly banging the hot girl on the team" is all that smart.

1

u/-Rapier Allen the Alien Nov 19 '23

literally

1

u/ViraClone Nov 17 '23

Yeah that's what I was thinking as well, Immortal knows what's up but didn't bother telling the others.

1

u/Bobjoejj Nov 19 '23

This is kinda what I’m hoping, just to make it make sense.

18

u/ajanisapprentice Nov 17 '23

Part of me wonders if we'll get a reveal that Cecil and Immortal knew the entire time he was a martian from their history with Martian Man and just decided it was easier to keep tabs on him this way. As opposed to him being scared off and hiding if they confront him.

14

u/BardtheGM Nov 17 '23

I'm convinced this is the case. Cecil is paranoid as fuck, so is Immortal. Together, they ran a full background on the dude and confirmed he was just some sad loser martian who couldn't pay his rent and was struggling to assimilate to human society.

5

u/RunningNumbers Nov 17 '23

Plus he could be useful and only needs to be paid in frozen pizzas.

2

u/BardtheGM Nov 18 '23

Yeah I'm sure when they discussed salary and the guy accepted an entire 5 dollars for a month of labour and said that he would love to use this money to "buy human goods and services with my money that I earned as a human", they probably figured out something was up.

Even Rex is openly questioning what is up with this guy.

1

u/JustMy2Centences Nov 20 '23

Dude would have to spend two months of wages just to see a movie smh.

5

u/Whiteout- Nov 17 '23

I feel the same way, if he's on the team they can watch him basically 24/7. If he thinks his cover is blown he might get spooked and they could lose track of him. Plus they know better than to tell any other members of the team because all of them would fuck up and spill the beans almost immediately.

12

u/RunningNumbers Nov 17 '23

Cecil knows the guy is a Martian and Martians have a weird morality that makes the idea of betrayal completely alien and unfathomable to them. This is why Shapesmith has such difficulty maintaining his deception.

Guy is honestly trying to help.

8

u/michealcowan Nov 17 '23

I suspect Cecil knows

2

u/Alt4816 Nov 17 '23

We've seen Cecil be competent and cautious, but we've seen a lot less of the Immortal. How do we know he's competent?

Also has the Shapesmith been on a mission yet? Cecil may not have been briefed that the Immortal just added someone to the team.

5

u/Broken_drum_64 Nov 17 '23

How do we know he's competent?

Because Cecil, who we know to be competent, has employed him as leader of the Guardians twice.

1

u/Alt4816 Nov 17 '23

I don't think the Immortal was solely in charge last time. Now he is and has free rein to do whatever he wants.

2

u/Broken_drum_64 Nov 18 '23

iirc from the first episode; he's basically the shot caller, giving everyone their instructions (or at least co-ordinating the team) in the attack on the white house; from what we know of the command structure of the GotG going forward it implies he's team captain.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

It's not so much that The Immortal has to be competent. You're exactly right. Sleeping with Dupli-Kate, flying into a rage and attacking Omni-Man without a plan, etc. aren't exactly examples of intelligent decision-making.

However, my point was that The Immortal isn't in a position to trust strangers right now. He was betrayed spectacularly by Omni-Man, who he trusted. He's unable to trust Mark. It would be really out of character for him to just trust some random person off the street who's clearly covering something up.

15

u/Dizzy-Help-5400 Nov 17 '23

The reason is because they’re pretty underpowered compared to the former guardians, they can’t really afford to turn away help and he doesn’t seem like a threat

3

u/P_Foot Nov 17 '23

Then why did they have that giant tournament for the current members to join?

5

u/_Valisk Nov 17 '23

They were tryouts to find suitable members.

3

u/LoL_G0RDO Nov 18 '23

And what did the other tryouts lack that this random dude with a mediocre superpower has?

2

u/_Valisk Nov 18 '23

How is it a mediocre superpower when one of the original members of the Guardians had identical abilities

1

u/LoL_G0RDO Nov 18 '23

Isn't this one only changing his appearance since he's hiding that he's a martian? Doesn't seem like he's using the other powers.

Either way, fine, forget the power critique. There's still dozens of other superheroes that don't just get to live at Guardian's HQ.

1

u/_Valisk Nov 18 '23

Do you think the other Guardians believe his power is just... changing into a guy? He may be hiding the fact that he's a Martian, but he still has all of their shapeshifting abilities.

dozens of other superheroes that don't just get to live at Guardian's HQ

Robot hand-picked the team and those original six are who he wanted. Now Immortal is the leader and he wants Shapesmith.

1

u/P_Foot Nov 17 '23

Where was shapesmith’s tryout I mean

6

u/_Valisk Nov 17 '23

Well, he wasn't on Earth yet? The mission to Mars happened after the new Guardians team was formed.

2

u/P_Foot Nov 17 '23

I know that.

I’m asking why they let him join without giving him a tryout but kicked all those other people out from the tournament. If they “were pretty underpowered…” like the comment I replied to, I’m asking why they let him in without testing him like the others they found unfit.

5

u/_Valisk Nov 17 '23

They saw him in action against the Lizard League and felt that he would be a good fit considering his skills.

1

u/P_Foot Nov 17 '23

I guess, just isn’t very convincing to me, I still find it very odd

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3

u/finnjakefionnacake Nov 17 '23

they also had to completely rebuild the guardians at once so it makes sense. here they're just bringing one person into an established group; then, robot had to start over from scratch.

2

u/Dizzy-Help-5400 Nov 17 '23

I know you don’t think it makes a lot of sense but that is the literal reason stated in the text, not saying it’s necessarily justified but considering what comes later I’m cool with it

6

u/Wraithfighter Nov 17 '23

My guess is that he's being watched VERY carefully, and when you're dealing with a literal shapeshifter who hasn't exactly done anything wrong beyond lying about their background, keeping them close at hand and in the dark might well be the smart play.

6

u/Material-Salt5161 Nov 17 '23

Pretty sure, there will be a gag when he reveals himself and Cecil is like "We know you are a martian, since we had one on this team there is a weapon to neutrolize you the second we suspect you are gonna destroy this planet"

4

u/Downtown-Item-6597 Nov 17 '23

I have to assume it's a Darkblood-esque situation where Cecil is completely aware of what's going on and doesn't want to play his hand. If not, that's a major step down from the normally ultra-tight writing and logic for his character.

1

u/drsyesta Nov 19 '23

Could be keeping an eye on him at the same time?

1

u/RealHero Nov 19 '23

One thing that stood out to me in season 1 was that Cecil hired robot to be leader of the guardians despite (at least to me) it seeming like Cecil didn’t know about Rudy or who made robot.

1

u/guimontag Nov 19 '23

In the previous episode you saw Donald walking up to Cecil and saying something like "here's the Martian file you wanted" then Debbie has that strong reaction to seeing him, so it's very possible Cecil already knows what's up

12

u/Majestic-Pension1527 Nov 17 '23

it's hard to believe that the Guardians just took him in despite knowing nothing about him.

What makes you think they don't?

3

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

I mean, Rex was pretty explicit that he didn't know where Shapesmith was from. Maybe it's just Rex being a moron (like usual lol), but the implication is that his background is a mystery to at least the members of the Guardians.

You could be entirely right that Cecil and/or The Immortal know exactly who Shapesmith is. That would be a great reveal and would clear up a lot of my issues with the character.

4

u/tarentale Nov 18 '23

I agree on the guardians accepting him right away. To me, I love the character. His carefree energy and lightheartedness adds a nice tone. We see most of the characters struggling or going through some shit. Incoming shapesmith, and his energy just neutralizes the room. Just my take. I’m looking forward to see what they do with him.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '23

Oh yeah, I get that. He's right on the cusp between delightful and annoying to me right now, but if they do something cool with him he could easily become one of my favorite characters.

I just really hope there's a payoff and they explain why Cecil's okay with a suspicious stranger joining the team.

1

u/tarentale Nov 18 '23

Agreed. We shall see.

3

u/finnjakefionnacake Nov 17 '23

i love him! he's super sweet lol. there's a lot of potential there. he's clearly a very good guy and i don't think they would have introduced him if the story wasn't going anywhere, but i do hope they bring him into the fold more strongly sooner rather than later.

it was also hard for me to believe that no one mentioned to mark he may want to vet who these random aliens galaxies away are but i just take note of it and move on, lol.

1

u/ParanoidNinja88 Nov 17 '23

I think it's safer to have him helping the guardians than to be doing his thing on his own, better to get a bead on who The Shapesmith is, at least I think that is what Cecil would be thinking.

1

u/cancerinos Nov 18 '23

The fact they know nothing about him is why they kept him. Keep your friends close, your threats closer.

0

u/RockCornPeaStone Nov 19 '23

bro THE SHAPESMITH IS THE WEIRD ALIEN THAT JUST LED MARK AWAY. IT IS THE ALIEN HORROR SPECIES THAT THE MARTIANS WARNED ABOUT IN THE FIRST SEASON. Shapesmith was stalking mark and learning about him, but he has no idea how to contextualize it. Thats why he showed up as "Seance Dog" because he SAW Mark take him out of the trash. The shapesmith-impostor-alien even admitted it when Mark was interrogating him (before his stupid gay friend got involved) Mark asked "why did you take form as Seance Dog" and the alien straight up said "to emotionally manipulate you" or something

2

u/Rubmynippleplease Nov 19 '23

IT IS THE ALIEN HORROR SPECIES THAT THE MARTIANS WARNED ABOUT IN THE FIRST SEASON.

The alien horror species do not have shape shifting abilities— they’re a parasitic mind control species that can somehow multiply like crazy when attached to a host. We have seen no indication that they are able to take different forms.

Shapeshifter is a martian— this has been pretty heavily established. The martians can shapeshift.

I also see no indication that the alien species that led mark away is connected to the martians or the parasitic species.