Russia Bombs Ukraine Superstore With Hundreds Inside

[u/Advanced_Drink_8536]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/russia-bombs-ukraine-superstore-with-hundreds-inside-in-kharkiv

[u/00000000000004000000]

An alternative perspective that doesn't contradict your points, but also makes it much more understandable:

Trump HATES Zelensky and Ukraine because they didn't give him incriminating evidence in an attempt at quid pro quo, instead earning him his first of two embarrassing impeachments. We all know how Trump can never let go of a grudge, ever, so if Russia wants to punish Ukraine for him, well in his mind they deserve it. Just think about how much he loathes Obama for hurting his fee-fee's at the dinner that many argue was the catalyst for him making a serious run for Presidency.

Also, most in the GOP, maybe even Trump don't necessarily need to be in Putin's pocket. All Russia has to do is feed them misinformation that fits their "Dem's bad, reeeee!!" narrative, and they'll lap up every ounce of it. Case in point being that sham of an impeachment trial where Gym Jordan's key witness turned out to be a lying Russian asset. Even after he was called on it by a reporter, he insisted on camera they should continue because he feels like Biden is guilty and they don't need evidence. They don't need money, they just need excuses, and Russia is more than happy to feed them every lie they want. Worst case, they get caught and it just increases the vitriol and discourse. It's win-win for Russia.

[u/redrabbit1977 → u/00000000000004000000]

Agree with everything you've said. But there's an additional layer: the "MSM" or "legacy media" or whatever the term is for mainstream news, is generally pro-Ukraine. Pro-Russian disinfo is heavily invested in the alt media landscape, and the people who subscribed to conspiracies often don't believe anything that the government and media stand for. That's the extent of their logic. Trump has a significant portion of his base that are hardcore conspiracists. (Elections stolen, democrats pedo-rings, anti-vax etc) They all believe Zekensky is a nazi jew pedo because that's the alt POV. That it's pure Kremlin propaganda is irrelevant.

[u/Nanaki_TV → u/redrabbit1977]

They all believe Zekensky is a nazi jew pedo because that's the alt POV. That it's pure Kremlin propaganda is irrelevant.

I agreed with you up until this point being part of said circles. There is no longer a good option and the fighting has to stop. That's what most of us think. Personally, I don't know enough to have an opinion. Our 'top men' in government seem to think supporting Israel and Ukraine are really really important. So there's gotta be something I'm not read in on that makes it be like that.

[u/redrabbit1977 → u/Nanaki_TV]

Israel is the only reliable ally the US has in the ME. They also have a very powerful lobby in the US.

Ukraine is strategically important. If Russia rolled over Ukraine, they'd set their eyes on the Baltics states, Poland etc. They want to expand their "sphere of influence" towards the old boundaries of the USSR. That's in no-ones best interests except the Moscow elite.

You allow them this expansion, you simply make the security threat worse, and make the problem even bigger. Appeasement is never a good option.

The Soviets spent many years as proxie against the US in Korea, in Vietnam, in Afghanistan. The US spent not just money, but lives in these wars. Then there was the cold war. Ukraine is simply another front in what has been a 70-year conflict, but this time the ROI for the west doesn't involve blood, it involves money only.

We're definately approaching a point where a ceasefire settlement could be a good option. But only because Russia has been given a bloody nose. To allow the Kremlin a free pass to annex neighbouring countries would have been an absolute disaster for global security.

Remember also that China is watching and preparing their own expansion. Appeasement (and Russian success) would embolden them massively. Again, degrading global security at scale.

[u/Nanaki_TV → u/redrabbit1977]

I thought about the UAE and SA but then I saw you said reliable and then yea I suppose. But what do you say about those that bring up the boat they sunk of ours? I don't have stock in this. Again, I trust our experts in the field more than randoms online telling me Israel bad.

I think there's a lot more going on regarding Ukraine than what we are told but I also think Putin's expansion is out of line. Once again I have to defer to the people in charge and hope they are actually doing their jobs. What else can I do as a layman? Even IF I could come to the "right" conclusion it is not like my support of nonsupport would change any outcome.

[u/DaggerQ_Wave → u/Nanaki_TV]

Definitely a bizarre incident, but it was a long time ago in a completely different political climate and no one can agree whether it was intentional or not. There’s evidence going both ways. even at the time, and given the circumstances (the heat and confusion of a large battle) though, it was wildly uncharacteristic.

[u/PooBearsTheMeows → u/00000000000004000000]

Here's a video of trumptards under the affect of this misinformation. This is what we are dealing with and it's disturbing. So many videos just like this have happened.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SlavaUkrayini/s/9EOwXDoXKc

👉 but people need to remember it's both these people AND THE FAR LEFT that defends Russia, not just in the US but world wide. Both. The far left is honestly more insidious bc they KNOW what they are doing. Trumptards are just brainwashed and spouting nonsense. Both are dangerous but the far left doing it actually pisses me off more bc they KNOW BETTER but bc of their rigid anti west / USSR orgy cum drinking fest, they love Russia. They KNOW what Russia is doing wrong and they deny it and gaslight and mock Ukrainians in such a disgusting way. Them calling Russia "anti imperialist" while doing FULL BLOWN IMPERIALISM pisses me off so god damn much.