Keir Starmer says he doesn’t want schools teaching young people about transgender identities

[u/PinkNews]

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/06/25/keir-starmer-trans-education-general-election-2024/

[u/Constant-Parsley3609]

You don't have to call it a religion if you don't want to, but it is a belief system.

Since the belief system demands that nonbelievers conform to its presuppositions in every way, it has leaked into many institutions as indisputable fact.

Many of these might not be directly taught, but they are assumed implicitly and certain language and concepts are taught to reinforce those assumptions as total fact.

Even your statement (which I think is very mild in comparison to some of the things I'm more worried about) presupposes that "everyone has a gender". I am perfectly happy for schools to teach that some people believe in gender followed by some bare bones explanation of what that belief might entail, but many people don't believe in gender. Just as many people don't believe in souls.

If all you wanted to do was inform students that trans people exist, then you wouldn't need to introduce gender as a fact at all. You'd only need to do that if you were trying to convert people.

I think there's a rather transparently hope that the students don't fit in as well and that don't conform to the stereotypical ideas of how their sex acts will hear about this concept of gender and being pursuing alignment.

Just as many Christians hope that introducing the concept of sin to young students will convince those that are feeling guilty in some way to start pursuing Christ.

[u/Darq_At → u/Constant-Parsley3609]

You don't have to call it a religion if you don't want to, but it is a belief system.

Literally every theory could be described as a "belief system" then. Kids are getting taught physics? Belief system. So ridiculous that people are demanded to conform to ridiculous concepts like "gravity"!

That people have a gender identity is the leading contemporary theory of gender.

I think there's a rather transparently hope that the students don't fit in as well and that don't conform to the stereotypical ideas of how their sex acts will hear about this concept of gender and being pursuing alignment.

You are assigning malicious intent to people who have none. That is entirely a you problem, not a them problem.

boystrous girls and effeminate boys in the class will hear about gender and being to question if they are in the wrong body.

That's not how it works, and not what trans people generally think, anyway. Gender identity is not gender roles.

[u/Constant-Parsley3609 → u/Darq_At]

I gave you a long long list of beliefs that this belief system asserts.

You can not honestly tell me that you think those points are scientific in nature.

Science tells us very little about this. People are looking into it, but much of the research is shakey conjecture or even worse just defining ever more complex jargon to describe the little that we do know.

It is clear that some people are distressed and feel that they would be less distressed if they had been born the opposite sex.

It is clear that many of those people feel less distress if others pretend that they are the sex they desire to be.

But trans ideology is not merely acknowledging the existence of this distress and even the proponents of it disagree on many of the points that I listed. And it is entirely possible that many of the assertions made by trans ideology actually increase the amount of distress felt by the people suffering from these conditions.

People feel some level of distress when they commit bad acts (whether they are religious or not), but surely the concept of sin and the Christian beliefs surrounding it play a hand in making some feel more distress than they would otherwise.

[u/Darq_At → u/Constant-Parsley3609]

I gave you a long long list of beliefs that this belief system asserts.

No, you gave a essay written by someone who clearly takes issue with trans people. Generally, when I'm forming my opinions about an issue, I try to hear people's beliefs directly, rather than filtered through their ideological opponents who misrepresent them or portray them in the least charitable manner.

Science tells us very little about this.

That's just nonsense though. Do we know everything there is to know about gender? Not by a long shot. But we actually have done a lot of research over many decades now, both into transgender people and more broadly into gender as a whole. The existence of gender identity as a psychological phenomenon is a leading contemporary theory.

[u/Constant-Parsley3609 → u/Darq_At]

No, you gave a essay written by someone who clearly takes issue with trans people

You didn't read it, did you?

Why on earth did I bother?

ou ask what transgender ideology is as if you're asking a genuinely question, but then when I try to give you some examples of the beliefs that I'm outlining it turns out that you weren't really asking. You were just playing coy to be snarky.

Generally, when I'm forming my opinions about an issue, I try to hear people's beliefs directly,

Oh wow! Why didn't I think of that?! Oh wait. I did and I have. -_-

I have spoken to many many trans people. They believe this stuff.

That's just nonsense though. Do we know everything there is to know about gender? Not by a long shot. But we actually have done a lot of research over many decades now, both into transgender people and more broadly into gender as a whole. The existence of gender identity as a psychological phenomenon is a leading contemporary theory.

Dude, I'm not denying the existence of trans people. Science says (1) and (2). I'm not denying that we've looked into this. That doesn't mean that the presuppositions made by trans ideology are true.

1) It is clear that some people are distressed and feel that they would be less distressed if they had been born the opposite sex.

2) It is clear that many of those people feel less distress if others pretend that they are the sex they desire to be.

[u/Darq_At → u/Constant-Parsley3609]

You didn't read it, did you?

I did, actually.

You ask what transgender ideology is as if you're asking a genuinely question, but then when I try to give you some examples of the beliefs that I'm outlining it turns out that you weren't really asking. You were just playing coy to be snarky.

Except you didn't actually try and give me some examples. At least not sincerely. The screed you posted was clearly trying to portray trans people in an uncharitable manner. That much was quite obvious. It also is not entirely accurate.

Oh wow! Why didn't I think of that?! Oh wait. I did and I have. -_- I have spoken to many many trans people. They believe this stuff.

Nonsense. You are fitting other people's words into your existing prejudices. You have a bunch of "beliefs" that sorta sound like things trans people might say, so when trans people do say things, you are primed to misinterpret them in that preconceived manner.

Dude

Not your dude.

I'm not denying the existence of trans people.

I didn't say you were. Try reading again more carefully next time. It's a little cringe to accuse me of not reading, then do something like that.