r/politics • u/croato87 • 4d ago

America Lost the First Biden-Trump Debate Soft Paywall

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/america-lost-first-biden-trump-debate-1235048539/
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u/Wonderful_Way_7389 4d ago

“I know I’m not a young man, to the state the obvious. Well, I know I don’t walk as easy as I used to, I don’t speak as smoothly as I used to, I don’t debate as well as I used to, but I know what I do know. I know how to tell the truth,” the president said. I know right from wrong. I know how to do this job. I know how to get things done. I know, like millions of Americans, I know, when you get knocked down, you get back up. Folks, I give you my word as a Biden, I would not be running again if I didn’t believe with all my heart and soul I can do this job. Because, quite frankly, the stakes are too high.

I'm with him

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u/BurnerAccountforAss 4d ago

The issue isn't so much right now as it is 3-4 years from now.

We all saw what happened last night. Joe was a far cry from his 2020 self, who was a far cry from his 2012 self to begin with.

I'm not convinced the man I saw debate last night will be able to dress himself in 2027.

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u/KaneIntent 4d ago

Yeah that’s the big question for me too that I’m surprised no one else is talking about. If he’s changed this much in the last 4 years what is he going to look like by the end of his second term during his last 6 months in office?

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u/Wonderful_Way_7389 4d ago

I said this below but I'm saying this to you specifically. I believe that it's okay to vote for a party and for ideas and morals closest to your heart than for a single person. And for a team of people because frankly, no matter how young a president - he can't do it all. It's how it's done in many parts of the world. Having said that, yes it would be incredible to see someone charismatic and young and full of vigour up there who looks and sounds like a world leader. And maybe next term we'll learn from this and ensure we have younger options who can do that part of the job because it obviously matters so much to so many of us. But this year, we vote for the party we stand for. Because yes, there is too much at stake

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u/BurnerAccountforAss 4d ago

Fair enough.

Though knowing the DNC, they'll probably run Jimmy Carter in 2028 (and the Republicans will run Adolfo Kimolini the 4th, meaning democracy will be at stake yet again).

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u/Wonderful_Way_7389 4d ago edited 4d ago

And if that happens...we run for the hills. To another country. Planet even. No but seriously, literally starting Nov 6 (AFTER Biden wins touch wood) we need to start looking for the next guy. A guy that fits our values AND other requirements. He exists. We need to put in the work to find him, and then bloody groom him and promote him well and go for an easier and less stressful win

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u/GoldHeartedBoy 4d ago

That’s nice. He had time to collect his thoughts and speak to a friendly crowd of supporters. Personally, I don’t want to gamble the future of our country on the hope that he never struggles again.

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u/Lazy-Street779 4d ago

And this fine message from set abramson:

If you’re a Democratic or independent voter who’s been suckered into the idea that Biden ending his campaign would do anything but ensure a second Trump term, it’s time to awaken from the fever dream.

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u/pablonieve 4d ago

Biden is currently losing and this debate was his best opportunity turn things around. Now his disadvantage is locked in with few chances to change things around.

We either what for the slow moving ship to hit the iceberg or we try anything to change course.

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u/golden_eel_words 4d ago

Bullshit. Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit.

Biden doesn't have the mental acuity to be the leader of the free world. That deterioration doesn't get better with age: it degrades further and further. We're basically saying that we're okay with voting for someone incapable of communication "because we have to". Bullshit.

I'll be voting for Biden but I'm not fucking happy about it. I like his administration enough to stomach voting for a guy who is no longer capable of fulfilling core parts of the job. That's pathetic and I don't feel great about it, but Trump literally means the end of the American experiment as far as I'm concerned, so it's all I've got.

If they put any other capable democrat in as a candidate my enthusiasm would probably return. It's unprecedented, yeah, but there's a better chance of Trump losing if Biden isn't his opponent. I truly believe that.

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u/Wonderful_Way_7389 4d ago

I believe that it's okay to vote for a party and for ideas and morals closest to your heart than for a single person. And for a team of people because frankly, no matter how young a president - he can't do it all. It's how it's done in many parts of the world. Having said that, yes it would be incredible to see someone charismatic and young and full of vigour up there who looks and sounds like a world leader. And maybe next term we'll learn from this and ensure we have younger options who can do that part of the job because it obviously matters so much to so many of us. But this year, we vote for the party we stand for. Because yes, there is too much at stake

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u/golden_eel_words 4d ago

I agree with everything you said, except I don't care what these pundits say: I believe that replacing Biden would do more good than harm this election cycle. It would at least show that the Democrats can identify when something is fucked and propose solutions. A nimble democratic party is better than one that pretends what we saw last night is electable.

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u/Wonderful_Way_7389 4d ago edited 4d ago

But who? Honestly who. I would LOVE if we had someone nationally loved who was a contender but I for one can't think of anyone good enough. That i think is the biggest mistake America makes btw. We don't groom enough people to be contenders. In the fast media world we live in, they don't just come out of the woodworks. It's a risk to put up a nobody too right?

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u/GoldHeartedBoy 4d ago

This isn’t 1950. Whoever replaces Biden will be one of the best known Americans 72 hours later. If anything it could galvanize excitement and support for the candidate because they’d be a breath of fresh air.

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u/Wonderful_Way_7389 4d ago

That's true enough. I just don't see it happening though.

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u/Numerous_Photograph9 4d ago

There are people being groomed, but the media and opposition is already on them to drag them down. These people.can still overcome such things, but rwaslistically, there is not much reason to telegraph who may be the next candidate.

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u/golden_eel_words 4d ago

Obviously Newsom is being mentioned a lot here. Newsom is whip smart and has the right policies for a strong and unified democratic party. He would have absolutely mopped the floor with Trump last night (anybody could have; that debate was a layup).

Newsom probably won't, though, because it's a hard win and it would sour his chances of success in a 2028 run if he lost.

Buttigieg works for me. The whole "but moderates won't vote for a gay person" thing might be true, but at this point we're not even trying to court any so-called "moderates": we're needing to retain existing Biden voters and make the youth enthusiastic to vote. He'd be able to do that. He's also exceptionally intelligent and well spoken and has all the leadership qualities that a president requires.

Whitmer is fine. So are a handful of others. There's options.

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u/Wonderful_Way_7389 4d ago

If we were in 2023 I would agree with you regarding all of the above by the way. But 5 months out. You think all the uncommitted and people in swing states are as clued in as you? I don't know man. I think it's a risk. Losing would be...disastrous

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u/golden_eel_words 4d ago

Maybe this election was lost the minute Biden announced running for a 2nd term. Maybe you're right and backtracking now is untenable, 5 months out. I just can't stop thinking about how I'd personally feel about a different candidate, even this late in the game, which is renewed enthusiasm, and I just know I'm not alone in that. So yeah, it's all "maybes".

Losing would be disastrous. And here's the thing: once this conversation is over about whether he can/should/would move on, I'll shut my mouth and get back in line and vote for him. I can't imagine what this country will look like in 4 years if Trump wins, and I'll do whatever I can to lessen that as a possibility. But while we're having this conversation, in the moment, I feel like it's fair to discuss how we actually feel and I'm annoyed with pundits who tell me how I should feel.

Cheers to a dem win in 2024, in the end. Let's make that happen, whatever it takes.

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u/Wonderful_Way_7389 4d ago

Ah fair. If it's a rant only - I came to this conclusion about voting for the party and not the person etc after A LOT of wrestling with the above. I literally cannot BELIEVE it's come to voting for someone i believe genuinely has had a wonderful career but now should be in his home surrounded by loved ones and family and that awful orange man. I cannot BELIEVE that the person in charge of such incredibly important things - the most important job in the world can't speak coherently. That we let this happen when we had four years THIS time around to make a change. That the GOP and its policies are so odious in 2024, that democracy is at stake in a country that literally gave birth to the concept. I'm angry about so many things. But like you, I'm rolling up my sleeves and doing what needs to be done. With a firm belief though, that we get it right next time

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u/Silvaria928 4d ago

It's not even 5 months out, it's just a little over 4 months out.

As much as I wish we were in a reality where we could just drop the incumbent and slot in someone better suited for the job, we simply aren't there.

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u/golden_eel_words 4d ago

And realistically, you're probably right.

But God dammit.

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u/flickh Canada 4d ago

You say that but if they put in a new candidate you could easily be like “Yeah but he supported drone strikes” or “she’s too capitalist” or “they voted against single-payer” and we’d be right back here  - with a flawed candidate, but with much less time to build momentum

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u/golden_eel_words 4d ago

I rank core cognitive functions above wedge issues like those. Being able to speak cohesively is a requirement first and foremost. Anybody who is capable of that is an upgrade, regardless of whether we agree on actual policy.

Case in point: very few people are talking about any of the actual positions or policies discussed last night, because it's hard to do that when this problem overshadows everything. If whoever replaced Biden had done drone strikes or voted down single payer it would be an easier pill for me to swallow than Biden's cognitive decline. Those issues can be discussed and changed, but you can't fix the brain.

In other words, yeah, maybe I wouldn't love everything about his replacement, but at least we'd be talking about issues again. And literally anybody is going to come out on top of policy versus Trump, even if they ate babies every Summer solstice.

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u/entropy_bucket 4d ago

The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.

George Orwell, 1984

He's literally asking us to unseen what we all saw.

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u/joenan_the_barbarian 4d ago

I give you my word as a Biden, I will craft the harshest crack laws on record, then my son will be a crackhead. After that, I will easily lose an election against a guy who tried to overthrow the government because at 81 years old my ego is still much bigger than the good of the country.

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u/bitqueso 4d ago

Then why was he caught lying in the debate? You need to stop trusting politicians