r/politics • u/ben_watson_jr • May 19 '24

How Can This Country Possibly Be Electing Trump Again? Soft Paywall

https://newrepublic.com/article/181287/can-america-possibly-elect-trump-again
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210

u/hat-TF2 May 19 '24

Also, since there's essentially only two options, you only need to convince enough people to hate one of the options. "I don't like Trump, but at least he didn't raise the oil prices" or something to that effect.

214

u/disposableaccount848 May 19 '24

Honestly, the USA essentially having only two options is the biggest reason why someone like Trump gets votes.

"I don't like Biden and I don't have any other options so Trump it is. 🤷‍♂️"

Not that I think it's sane to think like that as Trump is beyond awful in every shape or form and no matter what you think of Biden you shouldn't think he's worse than Trump but that's the reason really.

167

u/mdp300 New Jersey May 19 '24

I think there are very, very few people who would switch from voting for Biden in 20 to Trump in 24. What's more likely is that people just don't vote at all because Biden is too old, or inflation, or whatever stupid reason.

And they help Trump, because his supporters will vote. They think that the country has to be saved from communist democrats.

201

u/vicvonqueso May 19 '24

A Democrat will refuse to vote over a single character flaw. Trump has 100s, and Republicans still double down

175

u/b0w3n New York May 19 '24 edited May 20 '24

There are a lot of troubling views about the middle east lately and using that (coupled with foreign influence) to proclaim they won't vote for Biden since he isn't handling it the way they want him to handle it.

Like... y'all think Trump is going to be better? Dude literally made a "muslim ban". He has a good chance to take the win. Do I wish it was other choices? Sure. Do I wish we had ranked choice? Absolutely. But I'm not going to court fucking fascism because I think Old Man Biden isn't acting perfectly.

Edit: Here come the Trump bots and astroturfers

30

u/Wonderful-Region-424 May 19 '24

This so much. do they really think Jared Kushner will solve the Middle East this time in a fair way that maximizes human welfare and sustainable nation-building? 😛

26

u/Square-Blueberry3568 May 19 '24

100% the system isn't gonna get fixed if less people participate.

Seriously though for anyone who actually cares about the middle east, you should be voting. Not voting is saying you care more about your personal feelings than actual peoples lives.

"Don't blame me, I voted for kodos!"

6

u/Jediverrilli May 19 '24

That’s the biggest thing with me. All these so called “leftists” saying that if they don’t vote Biden it will teach the Democrats a lesson and run a better candidate.

The problem with that idea is if Trump wins odds are there won’t be another election for these morons to vote in.

I wish people were not so stupid that they could see what is right in front of them. Watching this election from Canada right now and it amazes me how stupid people are.

5

u/Square-Blueberry3568 May 19 '24

Also in reality if Trump does get in and doesn't irreversibly.damage the democratic process, the democrats are actually more likely to choose a less suitable candidate and the party will go further right.

Why would they try and get fickle non voters to vote when they could court the centre right away from republicans instead.

15

u/OpheliaRainGalaxy May 19 '24

I got banned from uh... r/lostgeneration I think? For saying basically what you just said.

14

u/dryopteris_eee May 19 '24

I got banned from r/latestagecapitalism for similar sentiments. I was promoting liberalism and using the "lesser of two evils" argument (also not being pro-China and pro-DPRK). I'm convinced that leftist spaces are being infiltrated and influenced by right wing propagandists looking to discourage people from voting.

12

u/GetRightNYC May 19 '24

Of course they are! Their main tactic it to divide and conquer.

6

u/OpheliaRainGalaxy May 19 '24

Unfortunately for them, we're mostly old hat at noticing the increasing levels of shittness and just sliding into the next space over without missing a beat. Ask MySpace how that goes lol.

Like banning me from one corner of the internet will stop me from climbing on my soapbox on the next corner and picking up my lecture where I left off. Hah. Just means I'm repeating "letting the red hats do genocide here won't help anybody getting genocided on the opposite side of the planet" on every other corner I wander past.

2

u/AffordableTimeTravel 26d ago

Same and same. All the political and news sections of Reddit are absolutely cooked if they don't do something about the clear and obvious astroturfing happening. They even leak into other areas of Reddit that are non political, if there's a large following and dialogue, you can expect propaganda trolls.

0

u/smartpeoplearerare May 20 '24

Oh, good grief. You are a plant. You never got banned for that.

3

u/Fun_Situation7214 May 19 '24

Haha I was banned from r/conspiracy for saying there isn't anything wrong with punching nazis. Apparently they're a marginalized people

1

u/smartpeoplearerare May 20 '24

I got banned from here for attacking nothing other than an idea. This is an echo chamber. No room for competing ideas

2

u/OpheliaRainGalaxy May 20 '24

Depends on the idea. Generally I like to at least look at ideas and see if there's any value to them, but honestly there's a few that I'd like to bury at the bottom of the ocean.

Same way with books. I love books, can learn something useful out of almost any book, but now and then I find one with zero redeeming value that is actually so poisonous I won't keep it on the shelves. Last one was an Ayn Rand that got stuffed in a hole in the kitchen so the kitten couldn't climb in there again.

5

u/FredoBagginz May 19 '24

We’re already courting fascism.

6

u/LostTrisolarin May 19 '24

I've recently talked to many 18 year old leftists who say they are voting for Trump because the GOP couldn't possibly make life any worse for Palestinians and Muslims.

3

u/Sufficient-Object-29 May 19 '24

It's scary to think how Trump would have handled.

0

u/Ok_Zebra6169 Tennessee May 20 '24

Trump didn’t start a new conflict. Biden has us involved in two.

2

u/Dedbedredhed5291 May 31 '24

Trump dramatically increased U.S. conflict with Iran and Syria, which led to deaths snd severe injuries to scores of American soldiers based in the region.

1

u/Ok_Zebra6169 Tennessee May 31 '24

Dude, that’s not backed up at all.

3

u/Oh_mycelium May 20 '24

You mean you don’t wanna start wars with Iran willynilly cause someone ambien tweeted threats?

10

u/[deleted] May 19 '24

[deleted]

16

u/johnny_fives_555 May 19 '24

Choosing perfection over good enough has always been the pitfall of the democrat voter. The inability to choose the lesser of two evils is one of the reasons we’re in a situation like we’re in today with roe being overturned turned and abortion pretty much being banned in many states.

The concept of voting for someone you don’t entirely believe in but is miles better than the other guy goes against the core of some if not many liberals. Because at the end of the day they’re still voting for someone they deem as “evil”.

5

u/floopyboopakins May 19 '24

Dude that's literally what they want. That's why they think Biden isn't handling it properly.

Idk where you're seeing this talking point within Democrat circles. Those talking about withholding their vote are blatantly against US aid being given to Isreal because it's killing the people in Palestine. Which is apart of the middle east.

3

u/Mediocritologist Ohio May 20 '24

Withholding your vote for Biden all but ensures the killing and displacement of vastly more Palestinians. At least Biden can be reasoned with, he’s already not fond of Netanyahu and has shown a willingness to clamp down on Israel.

2

u/johnny_fives_555 May 20 '24

This.

Republicans are great at voting against their self interest. Democrats are great at not voting for “principals” and allowing something worse to scape by.

1

u/johnny_fives_555 May 19 '24

Vs Trump would just send troops in to directly join the fight?

0

u/Ok_Zebra6169 Tennessee May 20 '24

Because in four years Trump Never sent troops in anywhere..

0

u/vrbuner May 20 '24

Maybe it’s because ;the Democrats continually talk down to the Republicans. Calling people a “cult”. How ridiculous! We have a real problem at the border. We have a real problem with the rising cost of just about everything…especially groceries, gas, and medications. The Baby Boomers are trying to retire but our retirement funds have seen 2 stock market crashes and the Social Security system we have paid into for 40+ years is being continually threatened. We have lost faith in the government. Certainly in someone that has been in the government for as long as we have been paying into our SS accounts. The system is catering to large corporations and billionaires. The congress go into office voting on their own salaries and benefits. They are swayed by monetary offers and they leave office as millionaires.

1

u/No-Task2556 May 20 '24

The Dow is up 45% under Biden. Biden had a border bill that gave republicans almost everything they wanted but Trump sunk it. Most Boomers are already able to take social security and it’s fine at this point. Biden has lowered insulin prices already and addressed caps for all drug spending per person as well. The US under Biden has lower inflation than any other country. You are 100% wrong. Go look it up or go back to Cultville.

0

u/smartpeoplearerare May 20 '24

I have some miraculous snake oil for you that will cure anything. Just send me 20 bucks if you still have it. I’m not sure you will, because you’ve already bought the bull that you just espoused.

0

u/PhilosopherBusiness6 May 19 '24

There was no Muslim ban. But after 911, who cares if there were.

-4

u/VacantBasement May 19 '24

He didn't make a Muslim ban. You are either purposely lying or are just ignorant. The fact you think Biden is doing a good job is scary. Our country is fucked at the moment. Unless you are super rich, I don't understand how you could vote for the continuation of the ruining of our country.

2

u/Dedbedredhed5291 May 31 '24

Trump signed two executive orders to ban admission of Muslims and citizens of several other Muslim majority nations. The only reason it didn’t happen is because the courts blocked them from taking effect.

-10

u/PineappleUnable1004 May 19 '24

I like Trump.

30

u/johnny_fives_555 May 19 '24

This is best way to describe it.

Democrats are single issue non voters.

Republicans are single issue voters.

In the end your right to not vote is what ends up hurting everyone. Letting your own principals getting in the way of the bigger picture. Throwing your vote away by “writing in” Bernie sanders as a way of protesting. Fucking stupid.

-8

u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

Voting for a shit candidate because some Washington elites decided that's who you should vote for is even more fucking stupid with the added flaw of being spineless.

10

u/johnny_fives_555 May 19 '24

Case and point ladies and gentlemen. Just making my case for me.

-6

u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

What case did I make for you by pointing out that you and the Trump voters are the same type of people?

8

u/johnny_fives_555 May 19 '24

The fact you’ll rather chew your own foot off than progress the country an inch further vs a mile.

-5

u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

When that "progress" is taking the country over a cliff, I'm against it. Regardless of which party is selling it. You can keep chanting "go team" and licking the boots if you want though.

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u/PiscesDream9 May 19 '24

by all means, do tell me about the "progress" ol Trumpy is going to provide. and you can't include lowering inflation. Go...

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u/Smart_Zucchini2302 May 19 '24

My mother-in-law literally believes there's some religious prediction that Trump will save America. This only helps me not believe in religion!

4

u/TheBeardiestGinger May 19 '24

That’s just republicans in a nutshell. Double down on your bullshit and scream at anyone that questions it.

6

u/Merrimon May 19 '24

Democrats vote by falling in love, Republicans vote by falling in line.

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u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

Anyone who votes for Biden is falling in line just as much as Trump voters. Unless you are claiming everyone loves Uncle Joe. Lol.

5

u/Merrimon May 19 '24

Just a saying about the general differences between party voters. Never heard that before?

2

u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

Just saying it's BS, that Dems tell themselves to feel superior, while doing the exact same thing they condem republicans for. Both parties occasionally have a person that voters get excited about. Usually though it's a case of accepting "good enough" in order to stop the other side. As and independent I can't really see that much of a difference in how the two parties operate. Both of them will leverage hate, fear, division, anger and anything else they can to get votes. Look at this thread. It's mostly people supporting Biden, not out of love but out of fear of Trump. Just like the messages in support of Trump. Neither one of these guys would have many supporters if you somehow took away the fear/hate/anger element caused by the other one.

6

u/mgbenny85 May 19 '24

Best thing I read on Reddit regarding this: “If the bus doesn’t drop you off at the address you’re trying to get to, don’t just not ride it- take the closest stop and walk.”

Too many dems boycott the bus company over having to walk a couple blocks.

2

u/pablonieve May 19 '24

Trump has 100s, and Republicans still double down

They don't see them as flaws though.

2

u/Odd_Ranger3049 May 19 '24

Not this one! Fuck Trump and his stupid cult

1

u/xwayxway May 19 '24 edited 2d ago

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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

1

u/warmonkey1220 May 19 '24

Really? Explain how democrats voted for Biden then

1

u/Bmdub38 May 20 '24

Bidens flaws are many as well, adultery, child endangerment with his own daughter, and his crackhead son in the white house. If his gestapo caught you on drugs, they'd lock you up and throw away the key, just like his bills pushed through in congress has done to many minorities over the years for peddly crimes. Yet he will pardon his own screwed up offspring for worse offenses and owning a firearm in the possession of control substances. Your idol is unsavory to many.

1

u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

Biden has hundreds of character flaws. We have 40 years of character flaws to look at. Pretty much every problem we have with America or it's laws, Biden is a part of. Racist laws, corruption, "elitist" bullshit, and everything else Biden has been part of for pretty much his entire adult life. And don't forget he has also been accused of sexual misconduct and appears to be suffering from pretty severe cognitive decline (like many elderly people). Both of them suck hard. It's just a question of who one thinks sucks a little less.

1

u/Mdnghtmnlght May 19 '24

Perfectionism.

-2

u/IndependenceWarm5375 May 19 '24

U think biden has a single flaw?

6

u/johnny_fives_555 May 19 '24

The concept of this line of questioning is the entire issue. In a two party system is not necessary always picking your favorite, is sometimes choosing the lesser of two evils.

-2

u/IndependenceWarm5375 May 19 '24

Oh for sure, and to be honest the president has really no power, influence sure but power is so minimal that people get so worked up its ridiculous

-3

u/BA5ED May 19 '24

Democrats will ignore character flaws and put people back in office just as quickly as anyone else. That is one constant in politics. People will pick party over character when it comes to the election every time.

1

u/vicvonqueso May 19 '24

That explains why so many turned their backs on Hillary, eh?

2

u/BA5ED May 19 '24

Bob menendez comes to mind but I don’t hold that against anyone. Even with Hillary some turned their backs on her but I also think if she ran for office again she would get that support back.

1

u/mdp300 New Jersey May 19 '24

I live in NJ.

Menendez was, at least, acquitted the first time. I voted against him in the primary, but for him in November the last time because his opponent was a maga goon.

This year, yeah, he's a joke.

2

u/BA5ED May 19 '24

And that is the point I was trying to make. Our political system is based on the perceived lesser of two evils when it comes time to vote.

2

u/Upper-Belt8485 May 19 '24

anyone who doesn't vote, is voting for trump. and people get pissed and in denial when you tell them this.

2

u/Dramatic-Scratch5410 May 19 '24

Not communist democrats, just democrats in general

2

u/LostTrisolarin May 19 '24

I've recently talked to many 18 year old leftists who say they are voting for Trump because the GOP couldn't possibly make life any worse for Palestinians and Muslims.

3

u/mdp300 New Jersey May 19 '24

That is...actively fucking stupid.

2

u/LostTrisolarin May 19 '24

Yup. Fuck it. They'll get what they vote for. Unfortunately so will we.

2

u/Oh_mycelium May 20 '24

I’ve seen quite a few people trying to say they’re going to vote 3rd party which is where the problem comes in.

4

u/ooo-ooo-oooyea May 19 '24

Yea the Trump supporters treat this like a life or death situation. Democrats need to do that same - if Trump gets reelected he might make it very tough for certain people. I'm an engineer focused on climate change, and used to live in China. I could end up in a re-education camp.

2

u/Phumbs_up May 19 '24

If you don't think dems are losing support wholesale I think you should turn off the computer for a while and look out the window. Maybe talk to your neighbors. You will find biden has very very little support on the other side of the screen. Dems as a whole are in bad shape. I live in Wilmington and you won't find a single person excited about Joe. Even the local business that have pictures of him with the owners and staff have all been taken down. At Joe's local dunkin there is a bright orange spot on the wall where is picture used to hang for like 20 years. Young people and minoritys are swinging right in a biggggg way even here in Delaware.

1

u/[deleted] May 19 '24

It’s crazy that his supporters still vote, considering he spent a year saying the elections are rigged anyway

1

u/Dominion1995 May 19 '24

Are you saying inflation is a stupid reason not to vote for Joe?

1

u/Ok_Zebra6169 Tennessee May 20 '24

If you look at the polls it’s young people 18-35 abandoning Biden. He is also tied with Trump with Hispanics and roughly 25% of Black men are getting tired of inflation.

-2

u/OkProfessional6077 May 19 '24

Concerns over the age of our 82 year old president and inflation are not stupid, they are real issues. Are they issues worth handing the presidency to Trump by not voting? No, but they are not “stupid”.

12

u/tomaxisntxamot I voted May 19 '24

When the other guy is 78 and will make inflation dramatically worse by forcing a Federal Reserve he'll much more directly control to drop the federal interest rate 3 points over night, yes, they're stupid and uninformed concerns.

6

u/dawkins_20 May 19 '24

They are very real issues, but they still completely ignore the frank reality of our system. Its a binary choice, there is no other possible option to be elected president in Nov of 2024 than Biden or Trump. And one of them will do things that make inflation significantly worse, and is also old.

5

u/[deleted] May 19 '24

It would be more of a real issue if the VP was a Sarah Palin type. Harris would be fine as president.

-1

u/krodiggs May 19 '24

What? Harris is, intellectually, just a black Sarah Palin. Fantastic comparison. Just like Palin, she rose up within the political ranks due to checking boxes than achievements and intellect. Unless you don’t mind her record of arresting more black men than anyone in American history post civil war in her term as DA (but jumped out of her seat at the State of the Union to applaud Biden’s position on cannabis arrests), a position she was given due to being the first mistress of SF, a position she got by being montell’s groupie.

-1

u/whereismymind86 Colorado May 19 '24

you...don't know what communism is....

and again, the solution is to not nominate a candidate half your party hates, instead of badgering them into voting for him anyways...again, via fearmongering.

He could also like...listen to them and change his stances to reflect their demands...novel idea that....

2

u/mdp300 New Jersey May 19 '24

Republicans don't know what communism is. They're the key screaming COMMUNIST at every democratic policy.

And who else would they nominate? Biden is the incumbent and already beat Trump once.

0

u/Champizzle11 May 19 '24

**demoncrats

-1

u/YohansinvonYeet May 19 '24

My state used to have 2 votes now is at 4 still not great considering California gets more than 50. Even if the person I vote for wins my state only gets 1/14th the voting power that California has I understand that its based on population. Hilary Clinton apparently won the popular vote back in 2016 but Donald Trump was still the victor? That really makes you feel like your vote matters doesn't it?

On top of that they don't split the votes by how many votes this person had or this person. It's all or nothing so all the people that vote for the losing side there votes don't matter.

Id rather not go waste my time on a chance that my state throws in there 4 votes the way that I vote only to have my states votes not matter in the race.

1

u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

More people voted against Hillary than for Hillary. She had less than 1/2 of the popular vote, which is what allowed for Trump to win. Something like 53% of people didn't want Hillary as the president.

2

u/YohansinvonYeet May 19 '24

Trump won the electoral college but lost the popular vote. Take 3 seconds to Google it and inform yourself

1

u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

Id recommend the same thing to you. I just did and it turns out I was off by 1.2% it was 52%(51.8) rather than 53% of people who voted against hillary being the president. Like you say the info is a quick Google search away.

1

u/YohansinvonYeet May 19 '24

False, Hilary won the popular vote by a significant amount

1

u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

Hillary did not win a majority of the popular vote. 52% of people voted for someone other than Hillary. She had a SLIM plurality of the vote, 48% to trumps 46%. Two percent is far from a significant amount. Because neither one of them had a majority it left it open to Trump winning by EC. Which according to the rules of the election he did. So to restate my point over half of the country voted against Hillary being president. Over half of the country did not want Hillary to be president. If you add in the people who don't vote because they despise both candidates or parties, that number will go way up. Don't take my word for it, you can find the numbers from a source you trust. It's on Wikipedia if you want to start there.

1

u/YohansinvonYeet May 19 '24

Anyone that sites Wikipedia as a place to start to find credible information doesn't deserve anymore of my attention. Have a nice day

1

u/Disposableaccount365 May 20 '24

Lol. I gave it as an easy source to find. Their numbers come from the government, which also has the numbers up on websites. You can remain ignorant though if you want, because "Wikipedia", but that won't change the reality of the voting numbers. The simple reality is more people voted against Hillary than for her, and she only had about 2% lead over Trump in the popular vote, but not a majority.

6

u/Serialfornicator May 19 '24

Whattaya mean? There’s the third choice: the guy with a rotted brain that’s been eaten by worms who shits on science

-1

u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

Whats funny is worm brain guys brain still functions at a higher level than the two main candidates.

5

u/Affectionate-Photo70 May 19 '24

This is my Dad, he has voted republican his whole life. Voted for Trump the first time. Didn't like his presidency, thinks he was an idiot, ruined our reputation on the world stage.

Voted for Trump in 2020 because he thinks that Biden/Democrats would be worse.

1

u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

Honestly I think that MOST Republican voters at this point. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

4

u/zugiwoogi May 19 '24

Not voting for Biden is the same as voting for Trump. Because that will be the outcome. It’s that simple.

8

u/hat-TF2 May 19 '24

That's what I'm saying. There are people out there who despise Trump, but somehow you get them to hate Biden just a little bit more and they'll settle for Trump. Of course there's nothing we can really do about it, at least not now. But in the case of the US Presidential election the voter really only has two choices. Even if they vote for Nader or whatever, it still goes one way or the other.

5

u/SomeGuyNamedPaul Florida May 19 '24

Quick reminder that Hitler had only 37% of the vote in the 1932 federal election yet that put him on top. Just because one system is fallible doesn't mean that other systems are infallible.

4

u/glw8 May 19 '24

There are a lot of very eager Trump voters. Don't let dissatisfaction with the two party system blind you to the fact that a lot of Americans are stupid, awful people.

4

u/dima74 May 19 '24

Stop these „only two option“ - shit. There were more options. As long as I understand your strange election system your president candidate is voted for in your primaries, so a lot of your Republicans just wanted this clown leading the parade.

Your electoral college system is another kind of bullshit.

2

u/NoCaregiver1074 May 19 '24

Nah, he won the Republican primary... twice? The problem isn't lack of choices, it's the high coefficient of stupid the Republican Party is stuck with. Throwing in a bunch of vote splitting options for the other side doesn't fix anything. Then you have the electoral college problems on top. So the solution is more complex than having more than two options, and honestly, fucking that up is unforgivable.

Abolish the EC, abolish the parties, implement RCV over all 50 some formerly primary candidates to fix the problem of morons inability to pick from two options? Or give everyone a cookie if they vote. Which is easier?

1

u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

The first time he won because of an extremely split primary. I think he had like 20% of the vote. The second time he was the president and parties tend to stick with that guy. Now WTF he got this nomination is beyond me, based off of them 100s of Republicans I know who all agree he wasn't very good, just the least bad option. I hypothesis it's a mixture of "believers", team sports types, and pragmatic people that think he has the best chance of winning.

2

u/MrWeirdoFace May 19 '24

Had a friend who was all about Bernie Sanders, then when Sanders was pushed out of the race, he decided Trump was somehow and adequate replacement. I think some people just want to rock the status quo, which I can understand to an extent, but...

not like this.

1

u/JimWilliams423 May 19 '24 edited May 19 '24

Honestly, the USA essentially having only two options is the biggest reason why someone like Trump gets votes.

Its part of the problem, but it isn't the biggest part.

Germany's multi-party system didn't stop the nazis. Hitler was elected with about 33% of the vote. Even after he went to jail for his putsch.

1

u/PiscesDream9 May 19 '24

the reason the Orange Joke gets votes is because the net and TV are sitting there like Propaganda speakers of old, and spitting this crazy bullshit about what Democrats are doing, and how Trump is gonna be the savior...when in reality, like someone said earlier, The President has less control over the major stuff than ppl think he does.

1

u/JimWilliams423 May 19 '24

The President has less control over the major stuff than ppl think he does.

He does have most of that control. He just doesn't use it. But donald chump's promise to be a dictator on day one isn't just hot air. Project 2025 is the gop blueprint for taking every ounce of power available to the executive branch and turning him into king for life.

The guy is promising to make sure none of our votes will ever matter again, and if there is one thing the last 8 years have taught us, it is that if we don't stop him, no one else will.

1

u/karma_made_me_do_eet May 19 '24

And if he loses this time, someone smarter is going to show up not to too long from now and will ensure what the GOP is doing gets done.

As in.. no more American democracy

1

u/hamthemanilton May 19 '24

They’re actually are other options. You just have to free your mind of feeling like there’s only two options. If a third-party gets enough votes, they actually get federal funding, giving them more power for future elections. For most people that actually gives you four options. Main parties, libertarians, and Green Party. Then you have the Kennedy option. Which is who I will be voting for.

1

u/A_C_Fenderson May 19 '24

The Electoral College doesn't help third party candidates, either. In 1992, Perot got almost 20% of the vote but 0 Electoral Votes.

1

u/ChrisO36 May 19 '24

This might be a good excuse if we had not already lived through a Trump presidency.

1

u/SchwillyThePimp May 19 '24

Yea if we had a few more candidates and a ranked choice I think we could start seeing a better result

1

u/Dominion1995 May 19 '24

There are other options this year thank god.

1

u/Striking-Ad2366 May 20 '24

I wish rfk had a bigger platform, independents don’t get any platform anymore, and yes I realize he’s drawing bigger numbers than most independents have in a long time, I honestly don’t think his opinions are awful, yea I’m not a fan he’s very progressive, but he’s a nice contrast between the likes of word vomiting trump and America hating Biden

1

u/[deleted] May 25 '24 edited May 25 '24

[deleted]

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u/Striking-Ad2366 May 25 '24

Ok buddy, three things, contrast is he supports abortion while also supporting cracking down on the immigration crisis, he wants to fight chronic disease, and also wants to protect free speech, normally you don’t get that, trump is ok with abortion only to an extent, rfk is throughout, which I personally think he contradicts himself, he says abortion is a tragedy but says women should have access to it (I don’t agree with abortion but that’s just my small opinion), Biden is no line have an abortion as you’re in labour pretty much, he’s revised his vaccination stance to state he doubts the efficacy of certain vaccines, he doesn’t want to take them away, and the brain worm thing, it’s surprisingly more common than you’d imagine, something like that happening, not in general, but in people with a worm in their body, and Biden quite literally is half senile, and didn’t need to stand trial because he “is a well meaning elderly man with a failing memory”, that’s terrifying, and lastly, I doubt you know which news I watch

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

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u/Striking-Ad2366 May 25 '24

Honestly never watched fox in my life, try again lol

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

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u/Striking-Ad2366 May 25 '24

I also said word vomiting trump, take it as a whole or not at all

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u/Striking-Ad2366 May 25 '24

Why do you have to be a dick about everything, do you just hate the world or something

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

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u/Striking-Ad2366 May 25 '24

Or any tv news

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u/Striking-Ad2366 May 25 '24

The reasonable discussion is ready whenever you are my friend

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u/Striking-Ad2366 May 25 '24

You are part of the reason nobody sees eye to eye any more, instead of asking why I feel that way, you just bashed me for it and made a point from superiority by saying “the rest of your post shows what media you watch” you know nothing about me, don’t assume I’m inferior for giving an opinion

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

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u/Striking-Ad2366 May 25 '24

I’m neither of the two, you seem to forget I don’t support rfk? Who do you support? I support my own beliefs, not any of the shitheads running

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

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u/Striking-Ad2366 May 25 '24

I didn’t even state I’m a supporter, just mentioned a contrast

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u/[deleted] May 25 '24

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u/Striking-Ad2366 May 25 '24

Nobody has an attention span, I figured three replies would be less jarring to read, my apologies, you are entitled to your opinion, alright, I’m not gonna argue just because you disagree with me

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u/Shot-Finding9346 May 23 '24

They don't dislike Trump, he is their God, they worship and adore him to the point if he asked them to kill their neighbors, end free elections and make him an absolute monarch , they would do it...

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u/I_am_-c May 19 '24

The only reason Trump won originally was because Clinton was so disliked.

The only reason Biden was ever elected was because Trump was so hated.

The only reason Trump could be re-elected is because Biden is declining so bad.

Absolutely horrific choices 3 elections in a row. Zero good choices anywhere in 12 years.

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u/Disposableaccount365 May 19 '24

You're partially right, at least as far as the reasoning goes. However for many of us Trump is the better option. I personally haven't voted for Trump, I despise the man, but if I thought Biden had a chance of winning my state, I'd vote Trump. Again to reiterate I think Trump was a horrible president. Id still vote for him over Biden if I had to. In my opinion Biden is the worst president we've had in my life time, with trump being the second worst. I personally see Bidens agenda and actions as more dangerous long term than Trump's. Whatever trump does will be pushed back against and/or reversed. Bidens flavor of authoritarian elitist bullshit will have longer lasting affects.

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u/thisaholesaid May 20 '24

Just start telling yourself the president is going to be Kamala. Because that guy is not gonna live or be able to function in another few years. I guarantee that.

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u/thalguy May 19 '24

"I don't like Trump, but at least he didn't raise the oil prices" or something to that effect.

That talking point is particularly funny to me, because Trump deliberately raised oil prices to prop up US oil:

On April 12, under pressure from Trump, the world’s biggest oil-producing nations outside the United States agreed to the largest production cut ever negotiated. OPEC, Russia and other allied producers slashed production by 9.7 million barrels per day (bpd), or about 10% of global output.

Source

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u/mitchellk96gmail May 19 '24

American politics is not about voting for someone, it's about voting against somebody.

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u/120ouncesofpudding May 19 '24

But they have to willfully ignore all the stuff that comes with. They are ok with all the rest.

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u/SaltKick2 May 19 '24

Literally the only thing Fox news does, literal fearmongering 24/7 because hate and fear are such easy and powerful emotions to manipulate. Not saying that other "news" outlets don't do this, but Fox news is 100% the worst while at the same time being the most popular

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u/Marathon2021 May 19 '24

“I don’t like Trump, but at least he doesn’t want to kill babies” is all most of them need. Everything else is irrelevant. Tax cuts for the rich? Doesn’t bother them. Slashing environmental regulations or social safety nets? Don’t care about that either.

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u/keepcalmscrollon May 19 '24

It's usually dumber than that. Like "I don't like Trump but at least he doesn't murder babies" or "he'll keep those people in their place" or "he won't tax my wealth [barely makes more minimum wage if that]".

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u/A_C_Fenderson May 19 '24

It doesn't help that the MSM treats this like a close race. "Dow Jones hits record; how does this hurt Joe Biden's reelection chances?"

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u/BeautifulCost6067 May 19 '24

I've seen a huge amount of signs all over Oregon & Washington telling people to write their ballot as uncommitted.

I find this to almost spell certain doom for the coming election.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there were a lot of votes to third party entities (many of them for Harambe the Gorilla RIP) during the last election cycle he was involved in. All those votes ended up being pointless, and doing nothing to help anyone.

I'm worried a lot of people that don't agree w/Biden or Trump are going to make the choice to write uncommitted like these signs suggest, and all that will do is make those votes meaningless in the respect of actually stopping another Trump presidency.

I do not agree with America's 2 primary political party layout, yet I do not see it being dismantled any time soon. So I really do not have positive hope for the future as of now :(

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u/TigerCat9 May 19 '24

Correct. I remember the summer of 2016 listening to relatives in one of the states Trump ended up swinging to win that election, saying sure Trump is a psychopathic nutjob, but do we really want to listen to Hillary's annoying voice for 4-8 years? These relatives aren't smart, they were presumably told by the radio or TV that her voice was annoying, and that it was on par with psychopathic nutjobbery in the other option.

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u/king-cobra69 May 20 '24

You were used to low gas prices because no one was driving during the pandemic. Lots of gas was available and lower prices to get rid of it. It also helped that the Saudis continued to pump oil (even though they were not making as much} thus lowering the price. It seems that as soon as Biden came to office, roads were now filled with cars and people going back to work. Gas was needed thus up goes the price. Combine this with the fact that the Saudis decided to curtail their oil production for many months. They wanted the money.

To put it in simple term: Grocery items which are no longer useful or reaching their expiration date get put in a quick sale bin with prices reduced. Better to get some money than none at all. I do realize that oil doesn't go bad, but with people wanting immediate gratification, sales are inevitable.

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u/Milocobo May 19 '24

Honestly, I think this take is missing a fair amount of context.

The Democrats don't understand why Obama won in 2008 or why Clinton lost in 2016. Or how Biden beat Trump in 2020.

Obama won because he was running on hope and change. And then, our hopes were dashed and nothing changed. Clinton ran on a platform of "more of the same!", and to millions of Americans, the same is a deathly struggle. A vote for Trump in 2016 for many was a vote to burn it down. I'm not talking about the MAGA extremists, but I am talking about a lot of Americans who are objectively worse off under Trump.

And Biden won in 2020 because the Democrats promised that they had learned their lessons. Only to not really pursue any meaningful systemic change.

So now, Biden is running on a platform of "maintain the status quo" against the option of "burn it all down" and people are worse off now than they were in 2016. Why would we vote for the status quo? Why would we vote for more of the same?

At least if we vote for Trump, the people who are well off now might be affected enough to actually want to enact change.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating anyone vote for Trump.

I'm just saying that's where we are at.

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u/Life-Bed4301 May 19 '24

Plain and simple…A vote for Trump is not for President but for Dictator. Good luck getting rid of him or fixing everything he will destroy! He doesn’t talk about doing anything for America, just for himself and the fact that any woman, minorities, etc would support him is just tragic.

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u/Milocobo May 19 '24

Yes, my point is that for minorities, it would be bad either way.

So many people are voting for Trump specifically to destroy those institutions.

Because they don't serve us (speaking as an American minority). And at the very least I can acknowledge that. I would never vote for Trump on a personal level, but I can't tell you how often I hear the sentiment from my community that if Trump burns it all down, maybe our country will actually care about us when they rebuild it.

Like I said, that was the driving motivation for so many voters in 2016, and Trump didn't really break the system then, so the Democrats didn't feel any impetus to fix it.

And now Trump will win again because the Democrats don't want to fix it.

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u/Life-Bed4301 May 21 '24

I fear it will be the end of our country all together. And unfortunately, I really feel this will happen. I’m an almost 60 yr old woman and have seen a lot. Everything out of his mouth is hate and vitriol. I don’t think he cares about the country & normal Americans (non millionaires) and will destroy the country my family fought and bled for. I’m not okay with that and never will be. I’m never going to consider voting for someone that only wants to represent the 1% & screw the rest. But that is just me.

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u/Milocobo May 21 '24

I understand that.

But your country has never served me. Both my parents died still working, with no retirement. I am one of 11 kids, and I am the only one they could afford to send to school, and I really do have to keep them afloat, making life more difficult for my immediate family. Besides that, we aren't secure from the use of force from your country.

Your family fought and bled for a country that doesn't serve my family. That actively exploits my family.

And you don't care to fix it. You would rather my family continue to barely limp along so that your descendants can be more comfortable.

Like I said, I'm no Trump advocate. But all 10 of my siblings voted for Trump in 2016 and they will again this year. I don't think they like Trump either. But just a brief, non-exhaustive list of things we will never be guaranteed to have in your America:

  • The right to be safe and secure
  • The right to be productive
  • The right to political expression

Really, our opportunity to pursue happiness is exceedingly curtailed, specifically to feed your America.

And you don't care to fix it.

Like I said, a lot of people feel like the only way is to put your right to safety and security at risk. Your right to productivity at risk. Your right to political expression is at risk. Because if you can pursue happiness, you don't give a shit if anyone else can, so taking away your ability to pursue happiness by electing Trump here is. the. point.

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u/Life-Bed4301 May 21 '24

I’m so sorry you feel that way about me personally because you really don’t know me at all. I am not the person you think I am at all. But that is fine and you have every right to think, believe and feel any way you want.

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u/Milocobo May 21 '24

You're right. And I'm not talking about you particularly. Feeling the need to qualify that it doesn't apply to you isn't helpful (sort of like when in the context of sexual harassment, saying "men are the problem", a man qualifying "not all men!" isn't at all helpful).

I am talking about the general attitude of middle-aged, middle-classed white America.

Like if you think of this current America (the country your ancestors fought and bled for) as the end goal, and that Trump is the only threat to it, then you are advocating for a country that threatens my people, as long as it doesn't threaten yours.

Put another way, Trump isn't the first time this has happened. It's just the first time you feel threatened by it. But Bill Clinton AND George Bush already did what you fear already... Their policies made it harder for my community to live free and work. It just didn't affect you, so you weren't interested in protecting the 90% at the time.

So unless you support fixing our government, not just defeating Trump but actually building an inclusive democracy, what you are saying to me is "I only care about stopping an America that doesn't serve the majority of us if I am not in the privilege minority".

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u/Life-Bed4301 May 22 '24

I would love to make America a better place for the minority and me being a woman is the only minority I am a part of but I absolutely hate where we are as far as how we treat minorities. I personally feel that the majority of the people currently in politics are too old and out of touch with what the country & quite frankly the majority of its people want and need. A long time ago we should have stopped worrying about a minimum age to run for office and implemented a maximum age as well as term limits for all offices. These career politicians get in office and even if they had good intentions going in, somewhere along the way and after way too many years & too many lobbyists, those good intentions went out the window and it started being about what was good for them and their interests. They also are so out of touch with what the average working people need to just survive that it is insane. We need some younger individuals to step up and get involved. I would love some of those options to choose from. Not a candidate that will tell you they will do what you want them to do, only to then tell you once they are elected that they know what’s best for you. It’s frustrating to me and I can imagine that it is a thousand times that for you. I hear in your words. And I cannot say you aren’t justified in your feelings.

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u/Milocobo May 22 '24

I agree with your policy aims. I know many, many Americans that do, on both sides of the aisle.

These policies would require Constitutional amendments, and neither party would ever push for them, regardless of popular mobilization.

THAT is my problem.

Kennedy said if you make peaceful revolution impossible, violent revolution is inevitable. This is where we find ourselves now.

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