Joshua Graham's faith while in the Legion

[u/logrey96]

Ceasar's Legion forces all who join to give up their cultures and belief systems, and indoctrinates them into the Legion's own belief system. However, being one of its founding members and coming from a devout community, did Joshua Graham retain his faith while a legate? The real Roman empire adopted Christianity at some point so there would be a historical precedence he could point at to justify it.

[u/Olewarrior34]

I always interpreted it as he slowly became less and less faithful as his brutality under the legion grew, then when he survived the fall into the canyon he took it as a sign from God that he needed to return to the faith.

[u/Defiant-Analyst4279 → u/Olewarrior34]

Pretty much my thoughts. Phoenix rising from the ashes/reborn into the "service of god" so to speak.

[u/Weaselburg]

Not specifically stated. His whole thing with having a revelation after being lit on fire and kicked down the Grand Canyon does kind've imply to me that he abandoned it or otherwise severely lapsed, though.

[u/KnightofTorchlight]

"This way lies the path to hell. Edw- Caesar needed me to translate. Translation became giving orders. Giving orders became leading in battle. Leading in battle became training, punishing, terrorizing. A series of small mistakes before a great fall. And I stayed in that darkness until after Hoover Dam. After I failed Caesar and he had me burned alive, thrown into the Grand Canyon."

There's nothing directly saying he lost his faith, but "a great fall" and "staying in darkness" does make it sound like he did not think he was in God's good graces. He just kept rendering onto Ceaser what seemed to belong to Ceaser (The translation work he promised, then that turning into orders that were required to lead the Blackfoot to victory in thier wars least the expedition be killed, to leading in battle when Edward needed more commanders, etc) until it overcame rendering onto God what which was God's.

I'd imagine the point Ceaser declared himself a god on earth and demanded to be recognized as such and started nailing people to crosses should havr been massive red flags to Joshua if he'd still been proactively faithful at that point. He 

[u/CoolHandBlake]

In honest hearts he states that he believed the legion to be his instrument from God to cleanse the unbelievers of the wasteland. Up until he was cast out it seems to me that he believed the legion to be as much his as Caesars, if not more so. He thought he was doing gods will the whole time.

[u/MeadowMellow_]

He used his faith, God, to justify his rage and bloodlust into a self-righteous holy war. Joshua had to become a Zealot in a way, to justify his actions. He waged war in the name of God's Will. He never gave a shit about Edward's little Larp. Sawyer says Joshua was truly the odd one out, he kept his customs, did not wear Legion uniform/armor, etc. He didn't need to justify the roman stuff, what he needed to justify to himself was the killings, crucifixions, rapes, etc. He did that by using his religion as justification. It is central to his arc later on in Honest Hearts and directly linked to his possible redemption. 

Edit: J.Sawyer - "Graham and Caesar were in it together, in different ways. While Caesar never had a radical shift in his approach and ideology, Joshua Graham had a slow slide followed by a dramatic fall and "rebirth". Joshua Graham was inspired by characters like Rodrigo Mendoza from The Mission and T.E. Lawrence. That said, Honest Hearts has a lot to do with personal motivations and why being honest to yourself about them is important. In many ways, Caesar is dispassionate -- or at least less passionate than someone like Joshua Graham, or even Lanius. Caesar is an odd sort of philosopher; Joshua Graham is a zealot. Caesar is also hypocritical or at least "bends" his own rules when it suits him. Joshua has to lie to himself to rationalize what he does. He can't live with an internal contradiction. They are also very different types of leaders. Caesar leads by telling people what to do and wowing (or terrorizing) them with the results. Joshua Graham leads by personally doing things that (typically) terrify both his allies and his enemies."

[u/Ryousan82]

Caesar has shown consistently that he has willing to make exceptions for individuals who benefit his cause. If Graham was useful, him believing that he was a literal demigod was not a requirement...so long he remains useful. Which he didnt.

It remains open to speculation the state of his faith aswell as how he reconcialed it with his role as the Malpais Legate, but I think its worth noting the following:

-Graham still preserves his profound disdain towards raptorial tribes, as exemplified by his contempt for the White Legs. If the Tribes the Legion came across were as or more violent and raptorial as them, Graham could have simply rationalized that their work was that of protection of the innocent. A "shepherd defending his flock". Then there is no contradiction.

If Arizona was as bad as everyone make it out to be, he might have even seen the Legion as a blessing upon the wastes. A harsh but ultimately benevolent tool.

[u/96pluto]

He tried to use it to justify his actions

[u/lOWA_SUCKS]

If the Legion did parallel the original Roman Empire, Caesar would probably call a council within the Legion to address Joshua Graham's beliefs, and invite prominent religious leaders of the legion to it.

There they would condemn Joshua Graham as being a heretic because Graham rejects the Trinity (he's Mormon).

[u/TessHKM]

Do we know that he was ever particularly faithful to begin with? Maybe that's part of why he was willing to run off and go traipsing around with Sallow in the first place. Lots of people only come to Jesus later in life.

[u/rom65536 → u/TessHKM]

Mormons take "missionary work" very seriously. He thought he was "bringing Jesus to the heathens". So - not "running off".