Gay Men at Jezebels?

[u/Taiwan_]

One thing that I had been thinking about recently. In Season 3 we saw Commander Winslow have a bit of an implied gay side to him, likely he was bisexual. It did get me thinking, instead of just murdering all the gay men, is it possible that some were thrown into Jezebels to satisfy some Commanders' closeted homosexuality or even threesome fantasies?

Could this possibility also extend to other LGBTQ+ groups? I can see trans women working at Jezebels as well to satisfy some Commanders who are into trans women, because I know some men love trans women for some like emasculation kinks and we all know Commanders love their power play.

[u/MoonageDayscream]

The Jezebel establishments are not there for sexual freedom, nor are they to meet every desire. they are private clubs for the Commanders to have a space where they are all complicit in many things, whey can feel free to break their rules and engage in the macho rivalry their positions would limit in the public sphere. As the society is sexually controlling the brothel aspect is prominent, and one of the most acceptable ways of breaking the rules, but there are also going to be gambling clubs, and others for various other interests Commanders must keep on the DL. In the end, it is a modern version of a gentleman's club. As homosexuality is a strict taboo, and the easiest way to dispose of a rival would be to expose that, it's gong to be a more private club than a Jezebel, one without a permanent location, to meet that need.

[u/Ashura_98 → u/MoonageDayscream]

This makes me think if Gilead might eventually develop an underground (illegal) queer world, so to speak. Were people, mostly high class men, can meet up and do all sort of otherwise illegal things, like crossdressing, having gay sex and gay relationships, etc.

As we can see in many real life examples, strict law doesn't completely eliminate the behaviours it seeks to outlaw, it just puts them away from the public sphere into the private or the secretive.

[u/atomic-knowledge → u/Ashura_98]

How long is Gilead actually around for anyhow? We know from the books it eventually collapsed (not sure about the show) and I always got the sense that it didn’t last very long, maybe a bit more than. decade. Am I misremembering the books or did anyone else get that sense

[u/Ashura_98 → u/atomic-knowledge]

In the book they specified that it lasted 200 years, in the epilogue. In the series, from season 1 to season 4, 7 years pass. I am unsure how much time there is between season 4 and 5, tho.

[u/FuckingArtistsMaaaan → u/Ashura_98]

I haven’t read the book in ages, but to think of Gilead lasting 200 years is absolute agony.

[u/Odysses2020 → u/FuckingArtistsMaaaan]

I mean…slavery was alive and well for hundreds of years.

[u/jimbean66 → u/Odysses2020]

Thousands if not tens of thousands and still is

[u/FuckingArtistsMaaaan → u/Odysses2020]

Yes, and look at the damage it has done to multiple generations of people whose ancestors were enslaved and who are still affected by systemic racism that hasn’t been eradicated because white people (generally speaking) think we’re living in a post-racist world. We’re not, and it’s still horrific and heartbreaking.

[u/satans_wafflemaker → u/Ashura_98]

I thought it was something like 20 years in the books? They’re only a few years in when Nichole is born and she’s a teenager when Gilead is beginning to collapse.

[u/Ashura_98 → u/satans_wafflemaker]

I haven't read the second book, so there might be a retcon in that regard, I don't know. But on the first book, when they are discussing about Gilead in that epilogue that happens many years in the future, they mention that Gilead lasted for 200 years.

[u/Hampster412 → u/Ashura_98]

I thought that epilogue was so fascinating in the way that it made me think about myself reading historical details of people's lives hundreds of years ago. After you get to know June and she feels like a real person to you, then to have the story suddenly stop in a conference room where attendees are talking about her like "oh isn't this weird society so interesting" without any actual thought to the horrors the people of that time lived through. I've read commentary by other people that they thought the epilogue was weird and should have been left off but it really made me think.

[u/Ashura_98 → u/Hampster412]

It's similar as to how many people today act about places like North Korea. Since they are so closed off to the rest of the world, they can feel kinda alien, but in the end the people living there are real breathing humans going through unspeakable horrors. And for many is just a quirky thing. It does make you think.

[u/SideIndividual639 → u/atomic-knowledge]

Not very long (BOOK 2 SPOILERS)

Considering Aunt Lydia survived from its very inception to its downfall the time frame couldn't have been incredibly long. She was not old but not young either (middle-aged?) when she was first forced into the regime. She references the young women crying a lot when she was initially arrested. Later she is considered old and has her statue installed. Considering life spans are into your 80s currently, I can't imagine women made much more than 70 in Gilead because medical care would be prioritized for the Handmaids and then Econowives considering their ability to potentially have children. Keeping that in mind the time they were at their peak couldn't have been more than 20 to 25 years.