I can’t wait to see how the show adapts this conversation. You just know the voice acting is going be absolutely amazing

[u/Thin-Pool-8025]

[u/shredditor75]

Also, like, the murdering hundreds if not thousands of people part.

[u/Sad___Snail → u/shredditor75]

Yea does that ever get brought up? Like sure cheating on me is bad, but Chicago subway or whatever… pretty gruesome.

[u/shredditor75 → u/Sad___Snail]

"Hey, remember when you used our son's head as a weapons to murder an entire train full of people, almost killing him and certainly traumatizing him in the process"

"Yeah, that was a real whoopsie, am I right?"

Edit: "Parenting's a real journey. You make some mistakes, but you just try your best, you know?"

"What about that time you killed all of our friends?"

"You know you hated making small talk with Aquarius."

[u/SadisticBuddhist → u/shredditor75]

Thats such a gross simplification. Yes, what Omni man did was wrong on so many levels. That being said- he did literally have thousands of years of indoctrination, and his exposure to human culture and beliefs warped him away from that.

As someone who has PTSD and has on more than one occasion assumed someone is trying to kill me, even when they arent, it isnt easy to break that mentality. I couldnt imagine growing up in a world where the reason youre alive is because you managed to be one the last survivors in a eugenics focused culling war.

[u/Self_World_Future → u/SadisticBuddhist]

Ok but does that grant him the right to be happy with his wife as they try to move on from his past actions?

Like if one of the victims whose spouse was killed in his rampage found out I’d doubt they feel this is right

[u/SadisticBuddhist → u/Self_World_Future]

So? Whats he gonna do? Throw himself back in to a black hole? Wait out the rest of his next 100 years on jail?

After a certain point just give up. You cant contain him. You cant punish him without hurting someone innocent.

[u/NinjaTakedown → u/Self_World_Future]

IMO, I think it justifies Nolan's actions now that he's moving past that point. But personally, I don't think Debbie should get back with him. Because just because a person isn't 100% responsible for their actions doesn't excuse them from the consequences of their actions.

[u/The-Mighty-Caz → u/Self_World_Future]

Everybody with this take seems to be ignoring a crucial theme that's a throughline for the majority of this comic: evil can be rehabilitated. Before this scene in the book, Nolan has been dedicating himself entirely to stopping the viltrum empire, ultimately saving millions, if not billions, of lives in the process. After a certain point, the good he's accomplished far outweighs the bad he's done to a point where any kind of retributive justice anyone thinks should be inflicted on him is small and petty.

Now conflating this for why Debbie should be angry and never forgive Nolan: that's simply not fucking why she's hurt by his actions. Emotionally speaking, she's more hurt by the betrayal of building a life with Nolan and realizing it was a lie. That he'd brutally beaten and traumatized their son, all the while saying they mean nothing to him. That weighs a whole hell of a lot more in her reaction to the fallout than the mass murder. Call it selfish or petty, but that's being human. And in a world built entirely on superhero tropes where the apocalypse can happen on a weekly basis and heroes can do horrible shit and villains can be rehabilitated, it isn't impossible to forgive mass murder. Not saying it should be easy, but it's not impossible.

[u/andrew0703 → u/Sad___Snail]

tbf the chicago subway scene never happened in the comics. the show really capitalized on how much it affected the planet.

[u/saltinstiens_monster → u/Sad___Snail]

Isn't that the "thousands of years of beliefs to overcome" part? I don't think he's talking about being indoctrinated into mistreating his spouse, he's talking about viewing weaker life forms as ants. That involved mistreating her, but I'm certain that both parties understand that the innocent deaths are the most heinous aspect of what he did.

Not to mention how his Earth kill-count is probably one of his lowest, seeing as that didn't succeed. Who knows how many much larger massacres he's committed?

[u/JeremyR2008 → u/saltinstiens_monster]

I never even though of that. He's thousands of years old. It's possible he helped in the genocide of the Unopans.

[u/JWARRIOR1 → u/shredditor75]

definitely in the thousands, hell, the cruise ship alone is a few thousand right there. Not to mention the avalanche, and the subway, along with all the buildings.

EASY tens of thousands

[u/PJRama1864 → u/shredditor75]

Is it murder when it’s done for the sake of a war?

[u/shredditor75 → u/PJRama1864]

They're not the Geneva Suggestions, PJ.

[u/PJRama1864 → u/shredditor75]

And which aliens abide the Geneva Convention?

[u/Doobie_Howitzer → u/PJRama1864]

If it's done before the war starts it's terrorism

[u/PJRama1864 → u/Doobie_Howitzer]

Or it’s the first strike.

[u/ManzanaCraft → u/Doobie_Howitzer]

oct 7

[u/Fitzftw7 → u/shredditor75]

Yeah, let’s be real, it’s kind of fucked that Debbie ultimately forgave him.

[u/Fun_Librarian9634 → u/shredditor75]

"uh... hey guys um..like what about the murdering part "???

[u/OCGamerboy → u/shredditor75]

More like millions

[u/Much_Bet_2395]

I think I miss my wife

[u/Thin-Pool-8025]

I doubt Debbie will be as quick to forgive Nolan given the fucked up shit he said, even if he didn’t actually mean it.

[u/mars_warmind → u/Thin-Pool-8025]

I'm excited for this too. I don't remember where exactly, but some of the writers iirc commented how much harder Nolan's redemption/reconciliation is going to be since they went a lot harder than the comics did, so I'm excited to see how they handle it.

[u/DarthButtz → u/Thin-Pool-8025]

Debbie being rewritten to be a lot more independent earlier makes me interested to see how they're going to handle scenes like this.

[u/ConstantOk1928 → u/Thin-Pool-8025]

Pretty sure what he SAID won’t be nearly as much of a problem as what he DID.

[u/jossinabox → u/ConstantOk1928]

I agree. The reason I love Debbie so much outside of the fact that she’s strong - she’s also extremely principled. It’s why (among other values she imparted onto him) Mark came out as such a good person and not evil.

[u/3vgw]

She likely won’t be as forgiving in the show

[u/Y_b0t]

He was MUCH more brutal in the show as far as murdering civilians and saying awful shit, so they’ll have to work hard on this arc tbh

[u/SchrodingerMil → u/Y_b0t]

He’ll just have to save a billion people for his redemption arc.

[u/bruddaquan]

That Viltrumite dick must be absolutely GODLIKE. Cuz literally ain't no way 💀

[u/ll-Sebzll]

I’m guessing they either not gonna reconcile in the show, or they will but it’ll take years to get to where they were before

[u/DisabledFatChik → u/ll-Sebzll]

They really shouldn’t go that route. Changing too much in the adaption will only alienate comic fans.

The personality change they did to Amber got so much hate they did a complete 180 in the second season and basically reverted her back to comic Amber😭

[u/ConstantOk1928 → u/ll-Sebzll]

Feel like that might make some obstacles though. Interesting to see how they’ll manage.

[u/NittanyScout]

"Think about wife... Regret..."

[u/Just_a_Growlithe]

That would be great voice acting, like heart and soul into that would sell it

[u/OCGamerboy]

I see this happening in the finale of season four

[u/ElMatadorJuarez]

I honestly hope they don’t get back together in the show. This arc worked in the comics because Debbie was more of a plot device than an actually fleshed out character. I’ve come to really like show Debbie and the way she balances strength and vulnerability, and I think it would be a real loss for her to just kind of go back to Nolan just cause. The show really made a mass murderer and abuser of him.

[u/JamesPlayzReviews3]

I mean Omni-Man's got a small point here and I mean small (IDK how to shrink my text) point, he did have a lot of beliefs to overcome. Still doesn't excuse what he did though

[u/chimp-with-a-limp]

This is always so nuts to me, like I appreciate love perseveres and Nolan did change but he also very much did but his sons head through most of a city and then put him in traction - props to Debbie as a character but I always found this a bit off IMO

[u/Doobie_Howitzer]

Sandra Oh absolutely crushes the angry/heartbroken delivery every time, after having watched Grey's Anatomy just let her cook and you're going to be golden

[u/EntertainerSimilar19]

Ugh, ngl. Reading through the comics becomes cringe at these moments.

[u/Stark556]

I wish he changed out of those Jammies

[u/Zer0gravity09]

I wanna see if the viltramites call him “nlon” since isn’t that how he said they pronounce Nolan?