r/Invincible • u/DepartureAcademic807 Donald Ferguson • Apr 11 '24
It's funny that he didn't give the traditional answer like any superhero COMIC SPOILERS
877
u/Intelligent_Creme351 Omni-Drip Apr 11 '24
Mark: I choose not to move forward, until all my enemies are defeated. I will not start the Rumbling.
72
u/derpicface Man Apr 11 '24
Mark: I do not see a holy war spreading across the galaxy like unquenchable fire
34
u/oriensoccidens Apr 11 '24
Mark: I have not brought peace justice and security to the Viltrum empire.
865
u/MysteryMan9274 "Dude, I saw it on Reddit" Apr 11 '24
Yeah, until that fucking tentacle monster that belongs in some shitty hentai screws over his life.
647
u/Fragrant-Potential40 Apr 11 '24
Yeah I kinda hated what came after this point. Punishing mark by putting him back 5 years in the future to see his daughter older was already a punch in the gut, then the whole Eve dating an alien just added insult to injury. That part I felt was pretty unnecessary, Terra was enough imo
333
u/Swift_Change Invincidrip Apr 11 '24
Yeah I feel like Mark gets dunked on constantly in the series, often done for reasons significant to the story. But him returning five years in the future? To me it was just punishing for very little reason.
For instance, Eve's little fling with Allen's BIL (forget the dicks name) has zero consequence on the rest of the story other than to torture Mark. Terra being older? Same thing, just torture. The whole arc ended up being really unnecessary. Lowest point in the story imo.
163
u/Wheatthinboi Apr 11 '24
Yeah I felt like they could’ve just had him and Eve and Terra move to the planet they end up moving to and then do a 5 year time skip and accomplish the same thing. Maybe even make more emotionally charged for Mark since he’s had 5 normal years with his family and then gets thrown back into the Invincible life
68
u/doctorchops1217 Apr 11 '24
kirkman got to the same point in TWD, was just like ehhh i don’t have much else to say with these characters….always enjoy a time warp throwback, really enjoyed seeing early teen team and the reworked confrontation with his dad, but the return was a bummer and from that point on seemed to just be wrapping everything up
48
u/scarletboar Apr 11 '24
If a had a nickel for every time Robert Kirkman "killed" his protagonist, then revealed that his wife banged someone else while they were gone, I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice. The Walking Dead and Invincible.
Personally, I think it's just his fetish, like Tarantino and feet.
9
u/Fragrant-Potential40 Apr 11 '24
Yeah and I think that’s what I disliked most about it, nothing about the deity that took him, or eves temporary rebound was never really talked about more than once. I kinda feel like the only reason they did it was to age up thraggs kids but I think there’s better ways to go about it, rather than having some unexplained time god kidnap mark but then never talk about it again
24
86
u/znhunter Apr 11 '24
One of the core themes of the story is that every action has a consequence/cost to it. This just kinda reinforces that. And think about how the book ends, he gets to spend functionally the remainder of eternity with his wife and daughter making the universe a better place.
5
68
u/Snafuthecrow Brit Apr 11 '24
No I feel like that part was a good parallel. The alien wanted eve to choose either him or Terra, and just like mark, she chose her daughter
20
7
u/absurdlifex Apr 11 '24
When did that happen??
6
u/GeekNuclear Apr 11 '24
When they were all in the hospital after Allen’s “attempted” assassination. She sucker punched the guy after he said Mark doesn’t deserve her and that Terra is in the way, basically.
6
1
u/Fragrant-Potential40 Apr 11 '24
While it was a good parallel, their relationship kinda felt forced after that. I highly doubt Eve would’ve left Kubian if mark came back before he made her choose between him and Terra. None of it was ever really expanded upon after that either
1
u/idontlikeshowers Apr 13 '24
Why would Eve choose Kubian over her daughter? If she were to be with anyone other than Mark, it wouldn’t be Kubian 😭
10
Apr 11 '24
Look at it from Eve's perspective though:
First, she thought Mark was killed by dinosaurus.
Then, she was troubled by Angstrom while she was pregnant and then later had to be without Mark during a good chunk of her pregnancy because Robot left him in another dimension (but she thought he died) - during which she lost a lot of weight and had to be hospitalised.
Then the thing with the tentacle monster.
So yeah, dating Mark isn't easy.
I think they'll expand upon this in the show and make it better.
5
u/Revan_Shepard General Kregg Apr 12 '24
i agree. I think peeps forget that while what Eve did wasn't ok, she both regretted the hell out of it, and Mark understood. but Mark also put her through a lot of bullshit and she vented all her pent up frustrations at him when she kicked his ass at Oliver's funeral.
1
u/idontlikeshowers Apr 13 '24
I wouldn’t doubt that she felt a bit relieved Mark was dead too because she probably felt a bit of freedom in not having to constantly stress over him anymore. It took her awhile to start dating again yet immediately dropped it once Mark came back into her life.
23
u/5am281 Robot Apr 11 '24
Why? That just felt like a logical thing to happen if Mark is believed dead for 5 years why wouldn’t Eve date again. Is she supposed to stay single for 20 years first?
6
u/Fragrant-Potential40 Apr 11 '24
I mean it just didn’t really add anything to the story, at all. To me it just kinda felt like reboot was just an excuse to age up thraggs kids 5 years, and there’s plenty of other ways to go about that then having a deity take him to the past, and then never explain what that thing was. None of it was ever expanded upon after that. Neither was eve dating another guy ever talked about more than once, and their relationship just felt forced after that. Kinda got the vibe that she didn’t really want to be with him after that, and the only reason she stayed with him was for Terra. I’m not saying she’s wrong for doing it, I just felt there was alot of unnecessary parts to that story that they could easily change in the show
2
u/idontlikeshowers Apr 13 '24
I disagree on their relationship feeling forced because it’s made very clear to me that Eve very much loves Mark still, as in being in love with him things just became complicated after he came back.
1
u/Fragrant-Potential40 Apr 13 '24
To me it just seemed like she didn’t really want to be with him after he came back, but I might not remember that part the best as it’s been awhile since I’ve read the comics again
4
344
u/Formal_River_Pheonix Apr 11 '24
Dude is like Superman and Joel from The Last of Us by the end of the series.
That's what Invincible about. A kid in a teenage fantasy becoming a man in a more complex and realistic world. Superheroes are supposed to be endlessly selfless. Real humans are not.
68
u/The_Banana_Man_2100 Steven Yeun Apr 11 '24
What a perfect synopsis of the lesson/moral.
6
559
u/NoCourt5510 Nolan Grayson Apr 11 '24
This is my least favorite part about the invincible comic. Why do we know nothing about this entity? What purpose does it serve to just send Mark back in time other than to traumatize him even more?
389
u/Dcas2807 Apr 11 '24
I really like the point or the conclusion of the reboot arc; giving us this moral conflict was interesting and showed us why Mark is different from other characters. But the consequences are just terrible and made me suffer reading it. His child grew up without him, and Eve having a brief relationship with an alien was too much.
119
67
u/PS3LOVE Comic Fan Apr 11 '24
I feel the entire point was just an excuse for a reason for a time skip that was necessary because of thraggs children and because they wanted a “what if” type of story.
91
u/MFlazybone Invincible Apr 11 '24
Yeah losing 5yrs with your daughter is just awful on its own....
Maybe Eve feels more negatively about the brief relationship in the show? Idk we'll see long enough79
u/blueracey Apr 11 '24
I mean maybe I’m misremember but she felt really fucking bad about it no? Mark told her not to worry because assuming he was dead is fair considering 5 years. But there was a whole scene about her feeling bad.
9
u/MFlazybone Invincible Apr 11 '24
Yeah I haven’t read in a while, I don’t recall how bad she felt exactly, but I interpreted that she felt pretty damn bad too. 5yrs is a long ass time so it does track
12
u/Future-Muscle-2214 Apr 11 '24
Considering they live for thousands of years. It suck but still isn't as bad as if it happened to us lol
10
u/PPHaHaLaughNow Atom Eve Apr 11 '24
assuming viltrumites live for 3000 years (which is a lowball), and the average human lifespan is 73 years, those 5 years is the equivalent to about a month and a half for a viltrumite.
4
u/Medium-Science9526 Comic Fan Apr 11 '24
Maybe Eve feels more negatively about the brief relationship in the show?
She felt pretty damn guilty about it in the comıcs even though from her POV he was MIA for 4 years:
10
u/Medium-Science9526 Comic Fan Apr 11 '24
6
u/MFlazybone Invincible Apr 11 '24
Oh yeah I had forgotten that second panel! I think seeing some negative leaning comments clouded memory lol
Itll be just fine in the show
36
u/Whycargoinships Apr 11 '24
The consequences of when he came back made me seriously upset. Took me a long while until I was able to pick it back up again. Really curious how it will turn out in the show.
10
u/KosherClam Apr 11 '24
The 5 year skip hurt even more with how few issues we actually got in the time skip.
1
u/messycer Apr 11 '24
Wouldn't it have hurt more if we had to wait more issues till we got Mark back to the main timeline? Or do you mean irl the gaps between issue releases took longer during this time skip?
1
u/KosherClam Apr 11 '24
Sorry I phrased that poorly.
I meant we got so few issues post the time skip. I feel like we barely got to spend time with Terra and everyone else after 5 years, and overall so much happens in such a short span. I hope if they do wind up going 7 seasons they allow room to breath and flesh a little more out as they have so far.
15
u/DarthZartanyus Apr 11 '24
But the consequences are just terrible
I would say the opposite is true; the consequences (for Mark at least) are meaningless. Five years is basically nothing for these characters. Mark and Terra are Viltrumites and will live for hundreds if not thousands of years and Eve is immortal, although nobody knew that at the time.
It seems like a big deal if you look at it from a normal human perspective but from these specific characters' perspective five years may as well be a five hours. Mark missed a tiny, minuscule part of their lives in the grand scheme of things.
I'd say it was a far crueler thing for Eve, who had to move on not knowing what happened to her husband and having to raise her Viltrumite daughter on a foreign planet full of people who wanted the Viltrumites dead and far away from everything she knew. Imagine the anxiety of knowing that your child will eventually inherit extraordinary powers from her genetics and her father who would've taught her about that is presumably dead.
That tentacle monster is a fucking asshole for what it did, though. Way to practice what you preach, ya under-digested spaghetti smurf.
→ More replies (2)25
u/Gustavo_Papa Apr 11 '24
He lost the first five years of his firstborn daughter, it's not about quantity, it's about quality
4
u/Medium-Science9526 Comic Fan Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24
Even the point of the arc was already addressed when Mark and Eve moved to Talescria:
About putting his morale dilemma of fighting for what he believes is right Robot & later Thraĝg or raising Terřa with undivided attention.
26
u/Appellion Show Fan Apr 11 '24
I personally would have loved an absolute cosmic power to be encountered that is largely indifferent but angry at Mark or Viltrumites pursuing him. It destroys the Viltrumites “with the brush of its pinky” (actually a mostly immaterial psychic force) and has a chat with Mark. Dispenses some advice, and sends him on his way. Just as he approaches the edge of that solar system, it pops in one more time with a cryptic prophecy or warning. And then that’s it, you never see it again,
Having this weird Cosmic Tentacle thing just demand something and make that overwhelming of a change feels specifically like the writer removing the veil and say this is happening cuz
59
u/DepartureAcademic807 Donald Ferguson Apr 11 '24
Maybe there will be more explanation in the show, there are some differences between the comic and the show so there is hope
78
u/Ezbior Apr 11 '24
Maybe a controversial opinion but I would be totally fine if they just skipped over this whole thing in the show. It's so out of nowhere and confusing and random imo. I'm sure they could find another better reason for a timeskip.
32
u/Vladbizz Apr 11 '24
This better reason is just let Mark rest and raise his child for 5 years until Tragg do some shit
10
u/Ezbior Apr 11 '24
Yeah that would be fine too but I assumed they would still want to do something with Mark having to deal with missing out on his daughter growing up or something.
5
u/Vladbizz Apr 11 '24
Perhaps. I remember was reading a comic and getting tired of constantly nonstop drama around Mark so I couldn’t take it seriously anymore. This timeskip was the worst. Sometimes you need to know when you should stop punching you characters for the sake of drama, otherwise it’s just became a farce
8
u/Appellion Show Fan Apr 11 '24
I like seeing super powerful cosmic entities in shows but not like this.
1
u/PS3LOVE Comic Fan Apr 11 '24
I agree, they would need to find another reason for a time skip though. The time was needed otherwise thraggs child bug army wouldn’t have been able to fight.
35
u/Skt721 Apr 11 '24
“What purpose does it serve to just send Mark back in time“
Invincible is as much a superhero story played straight as it is a send up of the genre. Around the time this arc appeared in the comics it became the hot new thing to basically do a factory reset of comic universes (not that it was a recent thing, comic universes were always being reset, Savage Dragon (to give an Image example)), DC had just done it. So the reboot arc was a play on that comic trope, but with the added twist that the lead knows it’s a reboot and rejects the very idea of it, albeit in a meta textual way that doesn’t entirely shatter the 4th wall.
I’m not trying to imply that u don’t already know all of this, just giving an explanation for the people who aren’t familiar.
11
u/JCkent42 Apr 11 '24
Agreed that’s what the arc was. A kind of meta trope criticism with Mark rejecting a “reboot” to show why it’s generally bad.
That said, in terms of straight up story, I’d still argue that it could have been better done. Kirkman can be a great writer when he wants to be and the series does have surprisingly heavy moments. I think sometimes he’s comedic senses can interfere with that.
That’s why I actually prefer the tv show so far. With the exception of Amber in season 1, the story is played much more straightforward and allows moments to breathe. I love the mini music videos we get with the characters etc.
1
u/Skt721 Apr 11 '24
“That said, in terms of straight up story, I’d still argue that it could have been better done.”
I do agree with this. Would have been a great opportunity for Kirkman to have some commentary on the series past short comings in a more meta way. As is it’s just a few issues of Mark kinda just savin folks.
That being said I actually liked the decision to have a tragic time skip happen because of Mark’s choice (I know I might be in the minority on that one).
I’m really enjoying the show so far, and while I wouldn’t say it’s overall better then the source material, it has made changes that improve on the book (I actually prefer show Amber to book Amber), and hasn’t done anything I would say is worse then how the book did it. I can’t discount nostalgia playing a big part in why I like the book more, but both are probably about equal in terms of quality.
11
u/CartoonAcademic Omni-Man Apr 11 '24
I know its because they wanted a time skip, but I really was not a fan
3
u/sting2_lve2 Oliver Grayson Apr 11 '24
it also serves as a recap/reminder of the early days of the series. it's easy to forget when you sit down and binge 144 issues in a few days but some of the events that are covered in Reboot were published almost 10 years prior in real time
2
1
u/Iron-Fist Apr 11 '24
I always figured it was a reference to either Berserk or Attack on Titan (which both also included similar entities)
1
u/Ok-Log-6244 Apr 11 '24
I just liked the adventure of it, but it was pretty pointless. The panel with the broken spaceship when Mark returns is really cool.
1
u/Guilty_Following_129 Apr 11 '24
Eh, I liked it and hated it at the same time, Gave me a chance to see dead characters again even for a few short panels, But overall yea, Was pretty unnecessary but that's Robert Kirkman for ya, Lol. (Its not a bad thing, He just makes some odd decisions here and there, Its why He's one of my favorite Comic authors besides Jonathan Hickman)
210
u/LoneWolf2099 Cecil Stedman Apr 11 '24
Pretty sure that, from a purely objective standpoint, this is the single most selfish decision any character makes in the entire series.
105
u/Jayk_Dos31 Donald Ferguson Apr 11 '24
But the point is that it's selfish. He makes everyone else's lives better but he doesn't get to be with the woman he loves or have his daughter. It's the human decision.
8
u/Smaptastic Apr 11 '24
He’d still get with Eve. He says so. He just wouldn’t have his daughter.
I’ve got 2 kids and I’d make the same choice.
1
u/CoffeeAndDachshunds Apr 12 '24
Same here. I have twins and there's no tragedy in the world that'd make me choose numerous strangers over them.
7
u/nignigproductions Apr 11 '24
That seems kinda at odds with the sperm saying he’s pure and selfless for his decision
18
u/Jayk_Dos31 Donald Ferguson Apr 11 '24
Doesn't the sperm (lol) chide him for deciding to go back? It tries to guilt him into staying and then basically calls him an asshole when he goes back, right?
16
u/Emergency-Bonus-7158 Apr 11 '24
That’s exactly what happens. It was like, surprised that he made the choice he did and basically went, “well congratulations asshole thanks for wasting our time”
5
82
u/Ezbior Apr 11 '24
I agree but its also an impossible ask. And either way he's dooming whatever universe he doesn't pick. Because the og one would have been lost to the viltrumites without him. So in the end ofc he picks the universe with his daughter.
10
u/absurdlifex Apr 11 '24
Just saying the universe is the same. He goes back in them not different universe.
1
u/Ezbior Apr 11 '24
I think it was an alternate reality not just the last of his current one wasn't it?
2
u/absurdlifex Apr 11 '24
It was the same universe. Everything occurs the same way difference being can't guarantee terras birth
34
u/Frank_the_Mighty Robot Apr 11 '24
Terra isn't the only child who won't be born. Changing the past like this is a genocide of the present. What do you think happens to everyone if Mark says yes?
Mark was thinking selfishly, but 'no' is a justified answer.
18
u/Negativety101 Apr 11 '24
Hell, that was the reason Tony Stark wouldn't go with preventing the Snap and the intervening five years from happening in Avengers Endgame. His daughter, and anyone else born in that period would have never existed.
Now not properly dealing with all the consequences of that is a whole nother thing.
2
u/SimonShepherd Apr 11 '24
It reminds me of Thor Reigning arc where Thor did give up on his son to correct the timeline. Granted that whole messed up future is mostly his fault and it's his responsibility to undo it.
195
u/demaxzero Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24
It's funny that he didn't give the traditional answer like any superhero
I'm pretty sure most if not all traditional superheroes would reject doing something that would erase their child from existence even if it benefited the world/universe more for it.
This is actually a plot point in Endgame, and why the Avengers bring back everyone who died instead of making it that the snap never happened to begin with.
I get this is the Invincible sub reddit, but can we stop acting like everything that happens wouldn't happen in another superhero story or has never been done before?
53
u/Demiansky Apr 11 '24
Yeah, the whole "I refuse to end one life to save millions destroyed by someone else" is very generic super hero stuff.
21
u/Mstrbuscus Apr 11 '24
But isn't this a choice Spider-Man makes in the PS4 game? He effectively sacrifices his aunt to save New York.
I know it's not his child, but it's a similar decision.
12
u/demaxzero Apr 11 '24
The full context of the situations are completely different other than they'd have to sacrifice a loved one.
→ More replies (2)10
u/Mstrbuscus Apr 11 '24
But isn't that the bottom line of this conundrum?
9
Apr 11 '24
[deleted]
3
u/Mstrbuscus Apr 11 '24
Don't diminish May to old mentor. She was his last family member. The only family he had left. She was more than, "an old mentor".
Your point here minimizes who May was to Peter.
→ More replies (3)0
u/demaxzero Apr 11 '24
Only in the bare minimum, the other details and context are still important when looking at the characters' decisions.
2
u/Mstrbuscus Apr 11 '24
Could you elaborate on those differences?
I don't see what details or context would differentiate these two scenarios. If anything, I only see how much harder it would have been for Spider-Man, and how selfish Mark is.
1
u/demaxzero Apr 11 '24
One is being offered the opportunity to go back in time and change events that already happened and will result in his daughter being erased.
The other had to choose between curing millions of a virus that is currently affecting people and spreading or curing just one at the cost of everyone else.
1
u/AWuTangName Apr 11 '24
I feel like the difference here is that usually heroes have to make this decision before shit hits the fan. Kind of like how the Avengers refused to “trade lives” for Vision in IW, because they still thought they had a chance to save both. In SM PS4, people in New York were already dying by wholesale at the time.
3
u/Mstrbuscus Apr 11 '24
It's specifically why I brought up Spider-Man PS4. More would die if Peter didn't sacrifice his Aunt.
For Invincible, he was already witnessing how many people he could've saved if he'd sacrifice his daughter. He's selfish, and he, at the very least, owed it to the millions who died in Vegas since he was the one partially responsible for that.
1
u/Nooneinparticulur Apr 11 '24
You could argue it was Aunt May’s choice to give her life. Peter was going to save her and she chose to give her life for others.
1
u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Apr 11 '24
Spider-Man sacrificed an old lady. Invincible was asked to change history so his daughter would never have been born.
6
u/Mstrbuscus Apr 11 '24
AN OLD LADY.
Bro, May is his adoptive Mother. His Aunt. His only family left alive. Invincible's choice was way easier than Spider-Man's. He had to choose while watching his last family member die in front of him.
At this point in the story, Invincible is not a hero anymore, but I believe he made the wrong choice. It was the human choice, because I think many would've made the choice he made, but he still sacrificed, thousands, if not millions, so he could keep his daughter.
1
u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Apr 11 '24
May was prepared to die, and Invincible himself felt he wasn't fit to be a hero anymore.
3
u/TPJchief87 Apr 11 '24
But in other stories, the hero would find a way to do both. It’s been a while since I read it, but I don’t think that’s what Mark did.
6
u/att0nrand Invincible Whip / Nae Nae Apr 11 '24
Invincible fans heard people talk about how subversive the series is and ran with it, ignoring that it's a love letter to superheroes and comics as a whole, stuffed to the brim with classic tropes that are either played completely straight or reconstructed in an interesting way without resorting to "people with powers killing everyone is more realistic"
But it's got gore and swearing in it, so it's like The Boys but animated/s
7
u/CthonicGaia Apr 11 '24
Tell that to Spider-Man
8
u/johnatello67 Apr 11 '24
Yeah, but Peter Parker is basically traumatized into thinking he deserves to be miserable.
3
4
6
u/DedicatedBathToaster Apr 11 '24
never been done before
Pretty sure Invincible did it before Endgame lol
8
u/demaxzero Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24
I never said it didn't.
I said things that have happened in Invincible have happened in other stories, and it's not the first to do a lot of this stuff.
77
u/Liseran23 Apr 11 '24
Reboot is pretty much Mark’s One More Day. He gets the chance to turn back the clock and save countless lives doing it, and even keep his memories. But Mark rejects that to keep living his real life with all its ups and downs, all of its losses and tragedies, because there’s still good and love and family there. It’s a good refutation of reboots and how they throw the baby out with the bath water.
88
u/charlesleecartman Mark from Burger Mart Apr 11 '24
This moment was Kirkman giving the middle finger to One More Day.
And it is fucking awesome.
29
u/Real-Deal-Steel Omnipotus Apr 11 '24
Still believe the arc was an illusion, not actual time travel, this alien used to keep Mark subdued so it could feed off him.
6
1
19
u/MZBroomhill Apr 11 '24
Actually I think it’s pretty in line with most heroes for them to not want to sacrifice an innocent child for ‘the greater good’
7
u/messycer Apr 11 '24
Captain America demonstrated as such in infinity war as well. He said they're protecting Vision even if destroying the stone will be the right choice for billions of people (lol)
11
u/Dzonkey Apr 11 '24
this is almost identical to what stark said on the exact same topic in end game lol
34
9
u/The_Banana_Man_2100 Steven Yeun Apr 11 '24
This tentacle monster and the huge build up of the crime syndicate without any explanation or conclusion to either are what really irk me about the comic. However, they tied it around in the end rather decently.
28
u/ReaperManX15 Apr 11 '24
Mark's decision is the more moral one.
When the entity doesn't get the answer it wants, it's first argument is quantitative.
"You would sacrifice millions to save 1 person?"
Once you make that argument, you are turning people into numbers. Into things.
You're no longer a hero. You're an accountant.
Your morality is based on a ledger. On balancing the books.
Once you start thinking like that, you are no longer the good guy.
16
u/Hypersayia Apr 11 '24
I know Mark didn't bring it up but another thing to take into account is that it wasn't just his relationship with Eve and Terra's existence that the timeline affected.
His relationship with his father is also quite different and Oliver doesn't exist anymore either.
Not that the numbers change anything, but my point is, to stay in that timeline, Mark would have to sacrifice the very existence of two members of his family, which for someone like him is an unacceptable trade-off.
8
u/sabin357 Bobby Hill Apr 11 '24
you are turning people into numbers. Into things. You're no longer a hero. You're an accountant.
I disagree with this completely.
Heroes face real life versions of the trolley problem all the time though. You HAVE to be utilitarian or you are not a hero, because you should seek to do the most good possible, not the good that you want & benefit from. It's the hero's burden. The moment you do something that causes more people harm instead of fewer because it benefits you, you've crossed the line.
1
u/ReaperManX15 Apr 11 '24
But, the Trolley Problem itself falls into the same trap.
“Let 5 people die from inaction or kill 1 by your action.”
The “people” are reduced to numbers and the question is more about the impact on you.
Do you let a bunch of people die or do you murder 1.
A choice between 1 heart surgeon mother of 3, against 5 meth dealers, has a very different feel.
Or what about 5 law abiding people with large families that will all be devastated, against 1 bribe taking politician who, nonetheless, has help passed legislation that has benefited millions and has plans to help more, despite minor corruption on the side.
In both of those scenarios, it’s not as simple as 1V5.1
u/messycer Apr 11 '24
Here's the thing though. Mark never claims himself to be the hero, he just wants to protect those he cares about. He even concludes it in the ultimate line of the series: "being a hero is bullshit". He was never wanting to be the goody two shoes superhero like Superman was, he's just a human given superhuman abilities. And if I was him I would have done the same thing too. Give me the trolley problem and show me my family member or close friend on one track or five random people on another track, I'm not going to kill my loved one. I don't believe Mark would disagree too. And that's okay. Just because you're born with that power doesn't make you wrong for wanting to pick the best for yourself when you're already doing the best you can
1
u/rfriar Apr 11 '24
Right? You give me power and I'm going to do my best to save the most amount of people possible; but the second you place a loved one in danger I'm always going to be agonizingly hard pressed not to pick them each and every time. It's a battle of the mind vs the heart; and that's a nigh impossible battle for most people.
6
u/nignigproductions Apr 11 '24
Making decisions is bad because why?
I’d prefer a superhero to make decisions based on a system of morals than like, flipping a coin or whatever you’d have them do.
6
u/ConscriptReports Apr 11 '24
that entire interaction really reminded me of one British romcom film, who's name I have forgotten, but the premise was that once men in male protags family turn 21 they unlock the ability to redo time to when they last saved, almost like a game.
The protag then goes and save scums his way through life, gets the girl of his dreams and everything and has a perfect child togeather. then he makes a mistake goes back to before they had their kid and then fixes his mistake and does everything the same as before but of course the kid he gets this time is completely different because a different sperm fertilised the egg this time. ya know cause it's like how many sperm cells and the time of fertilization and everything. he then goes completely depressed cause of how much he loved his first timelime kid and gives up playing with his powers after returning to when he first got the powers
5
u/Doobie_Howitzer Battle Beast Apr 11 '24
Why didn't he just keep soft resetting until he got the kid he wanted? Shiny hunting irl
3
1
4
u/MissiaichParriah Apr 11 '24
For anyone interested, the title of the movie is "About Time" and for some reason though, why Rachel McAdams always seem to be a love interest for Time Travelers/Time Manipulators
Also, to correct, it wasn't technically his mistake, it was his sister's. He corrected it but paid the price of having a different kid
20
u/MissiaichParriah Apr 11 '24
Ngl I hope they erase this entire arc. I know it gives more depth to Mark's character but goddamn the consequence was just too much, I was binging the comic that time and I had to pause reading this because of how that tentacle fucker fucked Mark's life up
→ More replies (14)1
20
u/Dumoney Donald Ferguson Apr 11 '24
This and killing Onaan was easily the most morally dubious thing Mark has done
54
u/Mrogoth_bauglir Octoboss Apr 11 '24
Onaan is a monster, it was as justified as Levy's death. I'd say killing Rus Livingston is much more morally dubious.
4
u/Dumoney Donald Ferguson Apr 11 '24
He had Onaan dead to rights and killed him anyway to stick it to Thragg. Killing someone in the heat of the moment is different than calmly and deliberately executing a compliant hostage. Thats why I put up higher.
5
u/Mrogoth_bauglir Octoboss Apr 11 '24
To be honest was Onaan really compliant? He was an active threat, and with his daughter around Mark couldn't take the risk. Onaan deserved it more than Rus did, and there were ways to neturalize Rus without killing him. I understand your reasoning better now though.
2
u/Negativety101 Apr 11 '24
Okay, strange glowing space thing, would you allow the deaths of all the people saved by his daughter and his actions? Are you all knowing? Do you know how everything works out at the end of both paths? If you are so Omniscent, why don't you tell him how to still get together with Eve?
2
u/Invincidude Allen the Alien Apr 11 '24
Wouldn't matter if he got together with Eve. They would not have Terra. They might have a kid still, but it would be a different one.
2
u/Joetheshow1 Apr 11 '24
I would say most superheros would make the same decision Mark made honestly.
Which superheros are you thinking of that would sacrifice their only child?
2
u/JesseAlvarado Apr 11 '24
I always wondered what the hell this thing was and whether or not that was actually a true reality. Like I feel this thing was more like the "Black Mercy" from DC. Feeding off the strength of Viltrumite vitality. But giving him a pleasant dream where instead of his errors in the past, he can fix them with foresight and save everyone.
2
u/dunzoes Apr 11 '24
Honestly fuck whatever that thing is. How you gonna expect one mfer to change the course of whatever causality on the drop of a dime. That shit pissed me off especially what comes after, give the dude a fucking break.
2
u/SirCletusIII Apr 11 '24
I know this arc was meant to show how Mark has grown, but man, did Kirkman have to fuck him over this hard? This was the only part of the series I felt was needlessly unfair to Mark just because it’s the kind of thing Kirkman likes doing to his characters.
2
u/Dr__glass Apr 11 '24
The fact that Mark is the same across the many universes means that his child most likely would be the exact same one as the other timeline. He also chose to raise his daughter in the objectively worse timeline
2
u/Tetsujyn Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 22 '24
I didn't like this in Endgame. It's basically Tony's excuse for not completely undoing Thanos' damage with the Infinity Gauntlet.
4
u/demaxzero Apr 11 '24
I wonder if people will ever accept that two different stories can have similar concepts without one copying the other
1
u/lofgren777 Apr 11 '24
What is the traditional answer?
2
u/DepartureAcademic807 Donald Ferguson Apr 11 '24
Save millions of people
1
u/lofgren777 Apr 11 '24
I don't think that's correct.
Generally messing with timelines is an urge that heroes are supposed to resist.
1
u/folkenD Apr 11 '24
In Berserk, Gatsu did something a little similar when facing the inquisition and when asked about Casca's sacrifice (page71 to 100 volume 21)...well he kinda felt him himself a few chapters back ^_^
1
u/UnknownEntity347 Apr 11 '24
TBF if Terra doesn't exist because of the changing of events so do a lot of other people. They already existed, erasing them from existence is basically the same as killing them. So arguing that one timeline is better than the other is harder than it looks at face value.
1
1
u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 Apr 11 '24
Invincible had previously said that the Star Trek sentiment “ the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” is nice on paper. However, it is much easier to talk about when it is not someone you treasure being sacrificed.
Previously, we saw a upside to this stance win Mark, getting infected with the scourge virus, caused all of her to realize how precious the life of the individual was when it was someone he loved at risk. The downside is how hard it is to expect someone to sacrifice what they love
1
1
u/AntiShisno Apr 11 '24
The most selfish decision he ever made, choosing the world with his daughter than the one where he’s aware of all the threats he failed to stop in time
1
1
u/Nooneinparticulur Apr 11 '24
Wait what is this “traditional answer”? And what do you mean “Like any superhero”?
1
u/ElMatadorJuarez Apr 12 '24
Honestly tho? I don’t feel like most heroes would have done things very differently. There’s not really a whole lot of utilitarian superheroes out there I don’t think.
1
1
u/Neospood Apr 12 '24
I know I'm in the minority on this, but this made me lose a lot of respect for Mark.
Maybe it's because I don't want to have kids in the future, but I can't really sympathise with sacrificing so many people for a baby that he's only had for, like, one month?
Maybe that says more about me than it does about Mark, IDK.
1
u/ByronicHero06 Comic Fan Apr 11 '24
Don't the aliens know every moment of his life? They should know the exact egg and sperm Terra came from. They can tell him when to have sex and boom Terra's saved!
2
u/EngrWithNoBrain Apr 11 '24
Yeah, but that relies on Mark getting together with Eve in the new timeline and there's no guarantee that that's going to happen.
2
u/ByronicHero06 Comic Fan Apr 11 '24
I'm pretty sure Rex would cheat another time and Eve would caught him.
3
u/EngrWithNoBrain Apr 11 '24
Maybe, maybe Mark acting like he knew Eve at the very start throws her off so when she does break up with Rex she doesn't get together with Mark. Maybe they do get together and Mark slipping into habit from their time together creeps her out and she breaks up with him. Hell, maybe having Mark there being a good influence pushes Rex to be better and not let Invincible steal her girl so he doesn't cheat on her or die.
The fact is the universe has changed dramatically and there's no guarantee that Mark and Eve end up together
2
u/OkResponsibility2470 Green Ghost Apr 11 '24
That wasn’t the issue, Mark knew they could get together eventually, and there’s no reason Rex wouldn’t just cheat again, the problem was that the odds of whatever child he had being Terra was <1%
1.6k
u/PerceptionTiny6385 Battle Beast Apr 11 '24 edited Apr 11 '24
Because:
https://preview.redd.it/6qss5oeq7stc1.jpeg?width=1002&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e018ff25a8dc604b68aae4143e1ea2bf7b82e667