r/Invincible • u/RevolutionaryGrape11 • Dec 16 '23

Do you think the Guardians Of The Globe could have won if Red Rush had stuck to just bailing the others out of death and hadn't attacked himself, or do you think everyone was doomed no matter what? They did put up a great fight even after he was removed, so I think it's plausible they could have. DISCUSSION

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197

u/Murky_Blueberry2617 Omni-Man Dec 16 '23

Isn't Omniman actually faster than Red Rush?

670

u/Hashbrown4 Comic Fan Dec 16 '23

I think of it like baseball,

A human can react to a ball going 100 mph but they could never move that fast.

Omni-man can react to red rush going X amount of speed but he can’t go that fast.

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u/Murky_Blueberry2617 Omni-Man Dec 16 '23

That makes sense.

Although Omniman actually can go that fast, but only in flight speed I think

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u/mrbulldops428 Dec 16 '23

The way he flies though, wouldn't he be just as fast then? He barely "flies" he more just moves through space. He's like an EV, all the torque all the time.

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u/IJustLostMyKeyboard Dec 16 '23

He went faster than the speed of light at the end of season 1. They say he left the solar system only a couple minutes after he left earth.

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u/mrbulldops428 Dec 16 '23

Yeah and I know where he's going because of the comics. He would need to be so fast that I kind of just ignored it as comic book logic. Like, he'd be so fast that a full speed punch would ignite the atmosphere lol

14

u/AscendedKars1 Dec 16 '23

They revealed the planet he went to in the show now as well, the speed feats in invincible are so much higher than their strength scaling when looking at other series, it's funny

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u/Omicra98 Dec 17 '23 edited Dec 18 '23

It sounds dumb, but how far does the solar system extend perpendicularly? The planets are pretty much aligned on a single plane, so going with said plane would be long, but if he went perpendicular to the plane, it would be quicker?

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u/The2NDComingOfChrist Dec 17 '23

FUCK this question is driving me insane because there is literally zero answers online. Either that or I'm just ridiculously impatient lmaooo

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u/VyldFyre Dec 17 '23

It's roughly the same as where you would put the horizontal limits to be. The limits of our solar system is generally defined to be the oort cloud which is basically spherical, more or less. I mean, It's a "solar" system, after all. It should be an attribute of the sun. The Sun's gravity is constant along the surface of a sphere, so any models of demarcation would be bounded by a sphere no matter the convention you use.

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u/[deleted] Dec 17 '23

It’s not aligned on a horizontal plane, the sun itself isn’t stationary. It’s traveling through space dragging all of the planets in the solar system along with it in a cone behind it—the farther away they are and the more mass they have, the wonkier their orbital paths get. This is why so many of their orbital cycles take so long and are elliptical.

However, because all of their paths are centered on the same point, it’s inevitable that they’ll line up in a straight line even if it takes a really really long time.

It’s taught the way it is because it uses a simplified reference frame that corrects all the orbital paths so that it’s easier for children to understand, even if it does create some problematic assumptions about how the solar system functions that need to be corrected later should someone pursue astrophysics.

This is a much more accurate model of what the solar system looks like as it travels through space (not counting for the sun’s own path through the Milky Way, though).

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u/Omicra98 Dec 17 '23

I understand that model of the paths of the planets, but with the way they revolve around the sun perpendicular to the sun’s movement is what I am referencing. I suppose my question could be rephrased as; is the Solar System’s influence on celestial bodies spherical, to say that the planets within the solar system on average comprise an axial plane of revolution, does the solar system’s range of influence extend in all directions equally?

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '23

is the solar system’s influence on celestial bodies spherical

The gravitational field of each celestial body is a sphere, yes, and they act on each other accordingly

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u/Omicra98 Dec 18 '23

I’m terrible at wording. Influence like gravity is not really what I meant, influence as in, the boundary of space that separates the solar system from “outer” space. Is that boundary spherical, or ovoid, or like a tear drop that fronts at the sun and droops back where the planets may be found?

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u/harvey-birbman Dec 17 '23

The planets are not on a horizontal plane, those diagrams are just simplifications. How did you think that? Also the solar system is huge and goes out far beyond the planets

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u/Omicra98 Dec 17 '23

They mostly are. Each planet orbits the sun at relatively the same angle, likely due to the way gas orbited the sun before any planets formed. This is a diagram I could be referencing

Horizontal may be the wrong way to describe it (the sun moves through the Milky Way Galaxy pretty much perpendicular to the planets, with the planets forming a “vertical” plane etc) but they are definitely in alignment. Horizontal may just be the most useful way to describe their position relative to our place within it.

Still doesn’t change my question, what if Omni-man flew away from the solar system perpendicular to the mutual axis of rotation of the planets?

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u/Omicra98 Dec 17 '23

Also you just copied the other guy who made a comment hours before this, you just added your own flavour of insult without actually giving any additional knowledge. The other guys comment was much more well thought out and descriptive

5

u/walla_walla_rhubarb Dec 17 '23

But he is able to accelerate continuously in space. So it takes a couple of minutes to get up to FTL, in a perfect vacuum.

2

u/some_pupperlol Dec 17 '23

It's far easier to speed up in the absence of gravity, drag, air resistance, etc

1

u/mildlyMassive Dec 16 '23

If viltrumites fly in a straight line then their "Smart Atoms" make them teleport increasingly long distances.

0

u/Plendamonda Dec 18 '23

In space there's nothing to slow him down, which means he can just keep applying his flight speed forever. Doesn't really work the same on a planet where you're constantly fighting gravity / air resistance and have to actually be able to react to how fast you're flying.

1

u/sliceofcoldpizza Dec 17 '23

You can move faster in space because there's no atmosphere to slow you down.

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u/GrainsofArcadia Earth isn't yours to conquer Dec 16 '23

I saw someone on this sub the other day saying that Nolan can fly at FTL speeds. While I find it hard to believe, it would have to be the case if flying between planets is going to be even remotely possible.

So, I suppose he can travel faster than Red Rush.

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u/mrbulldops428 Dec 16 '23

Yeah I was thinking that on a rewatch of season 1 before 2 came out. I've read the first half of the comics so I know he's going very far. And to be able to do that and not take thousands of years he'd have to be going FTL. I chose to just ignore that lol he could destroy a planet by just taking a step if that were the case lol

1

u/Elhmok Dec 17 '23

he doesn't have to deal with gravity, drag, and other counterforces in space

1

u/Chickachic-aaaaahhh Dec 17 '23

Accurate. Flight speed creates a temporal slow down of whats in front of you while speed itself while stagnant is a different monster. Like like being the speed of light going through galaxies seeing shit through your car window while you are an ant clinging to the cars undercarriage and only seeing road.

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u/justwalkingalonghere Dec 16 '23

I would say it’s more speed vs agility.

It seems that Red has high agility, almost like time moves slower to him, but Omni man could definitely beat him in a race where his flight has time to accelerate because Omni man’s top speed is faster. Presumably much, much faster to be able to traverse the universe in any meaningful way

2

u/Anjunabeast Dec 18 '23

Likr swimming vs diving

68

u/MufugginJellyfish Dec 16 '23

I would agree except he does precisely that in the show.

He catches RR mid punch and crushes his skull, I suppose you could say he's fought with RR long enough to know his moves and just grabbed when he felt RR was going to hit him again but even then it requires reaction time close to RR's own.

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u/fardnshid03 Dec 16 '23

I always figured that he could move as fast as red rush but couldn’t perceive time as slowly as red rush. Seems like the case because he easily grabs him but also kills him as fast and efficient as possible like he’s trying not to get caught with something he didn’t see coming later in the fight.

21

u/Matrix17 Dec 16 '23

Red rush pretty much did the most damage to omni man too. I think technically he was the biggest threat besides green ghost

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u/edwinstone Mark Grayson Dec 16 '23

I think War Woman did the most damage.

10

u/Matrix17 Dec 16 '23

Did she? I mean, she hit him once. I know she hit him pretty damn hard, but red rush hit him thousands of times in the span of like a second. To the point where he clearly had internal bleeding

I also think he managed to weaken him quite a bit like that before war woman hit him which contributed to how much that hurt him

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u/edwinstone Mark Grayson Dec 16 '23

Rewatch the fight. She hit him two times extremely hard with her mace, which is insanely powerful, and punched him about ten times.

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u/Matrix17 Dec 16 '23

Ah yeah I might have to rewatch it

21

u/canuck1701 Dec 16 '23

That's exactly what the guy above you said. Omni Man can react to red rush, but he might not be able to beat him in a foot race.

7

u/MufugginJellyfish Dec 16 '23

My bad, I'm illiterate

2

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '23

It seemed more like he had to predict his movements, he takes a few punches and then grabs in a direction he wasn't looking. He wasn't able to actually react and keep an eye on Rush so had to rely on reading where he was likely to go.

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u/masthema Dec 16 '23

If you pay close attention, you can see Rush attacks on whatever side Omniman is not paying attention. Omniman picks up on this and feigns paying attention to his left while expecting Rush to attack from his right. It's skill, not reaction speed

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u/AkuSokuZan2009 Dec 17 '23

but he can’t go that fast.

In the context of that fight, yes RR was faster. RR is much faster on the ground and in the confines of that space, no questions asked. Top speed wise Omniman in space has to be moving much faster.

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u/FrankieDigitola Dec 17 '23

Ngl…that’s the best analogy I’ve ever heard.

3

u/ConnFlab Dec 16 '23

He’s faster than light.. of course he can go that fast.

1

u/MrRuebezahl Dec 17 '23

Mate, the man can travel to different solar systems. He absolutely can go that fast.

82

u/Meatyblues Dec 16 '23

Not at all. If that was the case he wouldn’t have bothered baiting Red Rushs punch in order to catch it. He would’ve just chased him down and killed him

48

u/IAmRedditsDad Dec 16 '23

Yes and no. He can go faster, but he has to build that speed. If he did that while on planet he'd destroy everything, igniting the atmosphere. It's what he did to the Thraxxan planet a few times. It's also how Viltrimites are able to use flight as thier primary travel mode through space.

19

u/ArthurMorgan694 Omni-Man Dec 16 '23

He is but Red Rush can move that fast without speed build-up. Omni-Man is ultimately faster but he builds his insane speed up.

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u/lcsulla87gmail Dec 16 '23

Do we have any data on red rush's top speed. Do we know he's not capable of ftl?

1

u/ArthurMorgan694 Omni-Man Dec 16 '23

Well we don't, at least I'm pretty sure we don't. But if he can move faster than light, why didn't he use that in the Omni-Man fight?

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u/lcsulla87gmail Dec 16 '23

Proabaly because he doesn't have speedforce and he'd have seylt the atmosphere on fire

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u/ArthurMorgan694 Omni-Man Dec 16 '23

Okay true, but that also makes his speed potential useless.

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u/lcsulla87gmail Dec 16 '23

His speed was super useful. Until he went on the offense he was keeping the team alive.

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u/ArthurMorgan694 Omni-Man Dec 16 '23

True, but if he kept doing that, they would just be in a stand off. No way to get out. It was a kill or be killed situation, they had to attack. They did, and they failed.

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u/lcsulla87gmail Dec 16 '23

They are a team. If he can use his power defensively to give the heavy hitters the opportunity to strike that's worthwhile.

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u/DragonWisper56 Dec 16 '23

he seems to be able to go faster traveling than attacking. while fighting the gaurdians he was clearly slower than redrush. but he also baked a planet by flying superfast.

I think omni can go that fast but doesn't have that much coordination

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u/edwinstone Mark Grayson Dec 16 '23

Why do you think that?

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u/Murky_Blueberry2617 Omni-Man Dec 16 '23

He can travel across galaxies faster than light

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u/lcsulla87gmail Dec 16 '23

It doesn't appear that way in the show. But maybe in open space