r/Invincible • u/RevolutionaryGrape11 • Dec 16 '23

Do you think the Guardians Of The Globe could have won if Red Rush had stuck to just bailing the others out of death and hadn't attacked himself, or do you think everyone was doomed no matter what? They did put up a great fight even after he was removed, so I think it's plausible they could have. DISCUSSION

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287

u/TheBigNook Dec 16 '23

I don’t think there is a reality where the Guardians are surprise attacked by a Viltrumite as powerful as Nolan and they come out on top.

It may seem like they did some heavy damage to Nolan, but we’ve seen Invincible take a lot more damage and come back no problem. I’m not sure Nolan was all that challenged here.

69

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

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2

u/Supersquare04 Dec 17 '23

Did mark assist them against Nolan in that scenario or just warn them?

1

u/El_Akuma Dec 18 '23

Mark was reverted back to his basic state so he was slapped away and knocked out like a fly, the guardians were able to handle Nolan thanks to marks warning, Nolan didn’t get the chance to ambush them. https://youtu.be/N7xCn77hOwA?si=PWhh4HT9jn1ztQzo

115

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

He may have been holding back to make it seem more believable. Still impressive, no doubt. The damage was done.

122

u/The_Big_Crouton Dec 16 '23

Not to mention it being an emotional challenge. He can claim he didn’t care about them all he wants, he was still friends with them.

15

u/Neirchill Dec 16 '23

Was he? Seemed like he didn't enjoy partnering with them, although that could have been him not wanting to get close because he knew he'd have to kill them someday

6

u/Gathorall Dec 16 '23 edited Dec 17 '23

He wasn't an official member but apparently attended some Guardians social functions, Red Rush's SO is a good friend of Debbie, and he makes some remarks that clearly show he knows many of the Guardians well, and says that he never liked Immortal in a way that implies that he's an exception and that he tried to cultivate relationships with the team. Art also seems to regard him as decently sociable.

Honestly I think he's more annoyed that the Guardians, the premier team who can actually operate at the magnitude of his level as an unit use him as a strutch.

It is inconvenient for him, harshly against the values of strength and self-reliance he does always retain, and to him may just seem lazy. Like come on, if they're half serious they should be beating Maulers six ways to sunday.

159

u/Paragonoreo Dec 16 '23

Comic spoilers: he was holding back substantially

40

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

While I didn’t read the first thirteen issues, I’m aware. However, I do know the show changed a lot about that fight. He wrecked them easily in the comic.

53

u/TSM- Dec 16 '23

This was improved in the show, to explain why he had to kill the guardians (but not other superhero teams). It was a close fight.

The comics messed it up by doing it in one "whoa" page where he just kills each one, one per panel. But that made it seem unnecessary. Later on, in the time reset, it's shown that the Guardians could beat Nolan with prep time, after Invincible warned them which, lore-wise, overrides the fast action of the first encounter in the early issues.

11

u/Parking-Bat9498 Dec 16 '23

I came here to say this and you said it perfectly. Well done. Definitely possible with what you said.

8

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

True.

So, with that, how did the person I’m replying to figure that OM was, “holding back substantially,” and consider it a comic spoiler?

2

u/Beautiful_Point857 Dec 17 '23

Did you just gloss over the with prep time part? With enough prep and know how an ant could take down an elephant.

3

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '23
  1. I disagree with that analogy.
  2. I read the comics. They literally only got a warning and a very small amount of help by Invincible during the fight.
  3. With number two, if the Globe had that much of a chance, why would Omni-Man ever hold back substantially?

1

u/Matrix17 Dec 16 '23

Yeah but in the comic he killed them way faster

1

u/Beware_of_Beware Dec 17 '23

The idea of Nolan doing that yet still brutally crushing Red Rush's skull with his bare hands is just gruesome

-45

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23 edited Dec 16 '23

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32

u/Brilliant-Mountain57 Dec 16 '23

Probably from The Comics

14

u/8dev8 Cecil Stedman Dec 16 '23

The same comic where a forewarned set of guardians beat him?

7

u/LeSnazzyGamer Dec 16 '23

The same comics where in the reboot arc, they beat him because they knew he was coming?

-26

u/PepperbroniFrom2B Doc Seismic Dec 16 '23

the comics aren't the show

20

u/ARC4120 Dec 16 '23

The guardians beat Nolan in an alternate timeline, so I’m not sure why you were downvoted. He clearly ambushed them for a reason. Also, why would Nolan hold back if he was going to kill them quickly anyways, that doesn’t make any sense.

1

u/NoshoRed Dec 16 '23

He ambushed them so it was cleaner and more convenient. Would have been harder to keep it all secret if he began killing them one by one, also obviously killing them one by one would have been way easier too than taking them on all at once.

0

u/delcrossb Dec 16 '23

Realistically though, show Nolan has shown he can easily decimate a planet. He “ambushed” them as an act of subterfuge because he just want to take them out. Full rampage Nolan, akin to what happened to the Flaxans, would easily destroy them all. It just wouldn’t be subtle, which is what he was going for.

3

u/AspirationalChoker The Viltrumites Dec 16 '23

Decimate cities on a planet not the planet itself

7

u/StickSentryNig Allen the Alien Dec 16 '23

The comics are the source material for the show

2

u/PepperbroniFrom2B Doc Seismic Dec 16 '23

ok?

but they're not 100% =

0

u/[deleted] Dec 17 '23

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18

u/MustLocateCheese Dec 16 '23 edited Dec 16 '23

I will never not think this is stupid. My man was hospitalised, in a coma, and for a time, they weren't even fully sure he would survive. He didn't plan for that no matter what way you twist it.

The whole idea is that he ambushed them for being a major threat. Clearly they reinterpreted it in the show to make this believable by having them put up a good fight. Makes more sense than these supposed 'big threats' being fodderised in one panel.

10

u/SuperDuperCoolDude Dec 16 '23

Yeah, that is a scene where I think the show improved on the comic.

42

u/treetopkingdom The Elephant Dec 16 '23

He passed out and was hospitalized, he was pushed to the limit

22

u/TheBigNook Dec 16 '23

Yeah after everyone had died, had another person been alive he would have killed them before passing out 100%

29

u/treetopkingdom The Elephant Dec 16 '23

Still, pushed to the limit, whether he still had the stamina to take someone else out is up for debate. He was running off pure adrenaline at that point.

24

u/TheBigNook Dec 16 '23

Which is something Viltrumites are known for. If we look at Lucan, who sustained much worse injuries imo, dude managed to push through and FUCK Nolan up after being out just a time.

Nolan would’ve pushed through whatever injuries he sustained until the job was done and I don’t think the GoG could work around the dude’s adrenaline/survival instinct.

Like the GoG couldn’t take on any of the strongest Viltrumites in just about any scenario

1

u/ChristianRecon Dec 17 '23

Viltrumites don’t have adrenaline, technically

1

u/TheBigNook Dec 17 '23

There is absolutely 0 evidence that Viltrumites do or do not have adrenaline. Adrenaline theory is fan theory.

1

u/ChristianRecon Dec 17 '23

Ah thanks. I get all my comic knowledge from this sub so I was just repeating what I’ve seen a lot of people say here.

16

u/[deleted] Dec 16 '23

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7

u/TheBigNook Dec 16 '23

Oh yeah, with outside circumstances they could handle the situation

1

u/El_Akuma Dec 18 '23

Yeah I’m just saying, with that warning they were able to do it.

24

u/kerriazes Dec 16 '23

we’ve seen Invincible take a lot more damage and come back no problem

To be fair, every time Invincible was allowed to heal.

I doubt they'd give the same chance to Nolan without detaining him.

14

u/TheBigNook Dec 16 '23

That’s a fair point, but I also don’t think Nolan recieved any injuries that would’ve kept him from killing them off. Yes he passed out and had to recover but only noticeably after everyone was dead. If someone had remained alive to threaten his motive he would’ve pushed through to kill them.

His power level is just leagues above the GoG

9

u/kerriazes Dec 16 '23

Oh I wasn't saying Nolan wouldn't win every time he went against the GoG (unless they were given serious prep time to strategize), just that the comparison to Invincible isn't really accurate since every time Invincible was saved from death by something else.

6

u/TheBigNook Dec 16 '23

I was more trying to highlight the durability of Viltrumites in that they’re extremely difficult to kill and once they are in that zone of extreme anger/motivation, injuries just mean less to them

2

u/BuryEdmundIsMyAlias Dec 16 '23

War Woman could kill him with three clear shots I reckon, we saw how much damage that one hit did, and Red Rush made him cough up blood from punching him in the chest (admittedly obliterating his own hands in the process).

Red Rush, Green Ghost, War Woman, Immortal and Martian (forget his name) could defeat him soundly if they had the drop on him.

There's a reason why Omniman lured them into a trap. He recognised their danger.

This being said, it is key to remember that I'm suggesting that they could beat him in a 5 on 1 battle. The 5 strongest people on Earth would need to work together to defeat him.

I think that's what I enjoy about Invincible overall, that while the characters are insanely strong, they are still mortal.

2

u/Significant_Basil_59 Dec 16 '23

Isn’t it that Nolan took hits on purpose so as to really make it believable that he was badly hurt and had nothing to do with the deaths of the guardians?

2

u/ChristianRecon Dec 17 '23

It would have been best for his plan if he never passed out and was able to flee the scene of the crime

1

u/RevealHoliday7735 Dec 16 '23

uhhhh.......he literally went unconscious was put into the hospital to recover

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If that isn't ACTUAL "heavy damage" then I guess I don't know what is

1

u/Anjunabeast Dec 18 '23

Nolan collapsed after and had to get medical attention from cecils people iirc