r/Invincible • u/mwthecool Omni-Mod • Nov 17 '23

Invincible [Episode Discussion] - S02E03 - This Missive, This Machination! EPISODE DISCUSSION

Episode 3 - This Missive, This Machination!

Mark starts his college career, Debbie struggles with personal trauma, and Allen the Alien returns home to find a new threat facing the Coalition of Planets.

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275

u/AlienWarhead Nov 17 '23

Yeah I don’t get why Cecil didn’t say “what if he’s lying to you”, that seems like something Cecil would say

49

u/danivus Nov 17 '23

I suppose an argument could be made for that invalidating the test of Mark's loyalty.

Cecil doesn't doubt that he can be reasoned with, he doubts he can follow instructions without having to be walked through the reasons why. He doubts Mark can value someone else's judgement of a situation over his own.

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u/2SP00KY4ME Nov 17 '23

He didn't make any claim of judgment. He just said you work for me, this is an order. He didn't even say "It's a bad idea", it was more like "You belong to me, now obey".

24

u/danivus Nov 17 '23

Right, because previously he'd said he was worried Mark would turn into his father and to prove he wouldn't Mark agreed to work for Cecil to show him he could follow orders and not just act like Omni-Man did.

But now when given an order he didn't agree with, he ignored it.

3

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '23

That's kind of nonsensical because not following orders was never Nolans issue.

If anything someone being a yes man is waaayyy more suspicious. Especially when the things Cecil orders are for Mark to act more like his dad

3

u/[deleted] Nov 19 '23

Yeah, Nolan's issue wasn't being bad at following orders. The issue was that he was secretly evil.

10

u/InternalParadox Monster Girl and Robot Nov 17 '23

Very military of him. Generals have to instill in their soldiers to follow orders without question.

10

u/Karkava Monster Girl Nov 17 '23

And something that can get Mark to stop in his tracks. He can also butter him up with praise by saying that he's a good kid and that he's nothing like his father and that earth needs his help protecting them and that the Guardians are fumbling as a replacement team for the elite group that Omni-man killed.

7

u/AllinForBadgers Nov 17 '23

The reply to that is “what if he isn’t”

2

u/hemareddit Nov 23 '23

Cecil: “Okay, but you only just met this person. The reason we take the time to build trust, is because people don’t just reveal that they are duplicitous and would totally lie to your ass in the first 5 minutes of meeting you!”

Mark: “Oh, actually this one totally did, he totally appeared to me in disguise and lied his ass off. I’m still going though, no way he’d lie to me twice in a row!”

Cecil: “I’m actually speechless.”

-1

u/bbpopulardemand Nov 17 '23

Only reason he didn't say it was because of bad writing. It was so obvious it was a lie that the writers had to dumb down the characters for the sake of advancing the plot.

7

u/AgentP20 Nov 17 '23

What if Mark replied that "What if it isn't?" Then what?

4

u/bbpopulardemand Nov 17 '23

Then that would have been better writing than what we got.

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u/Basic_Loquat_9344 Nov 18 '23

Or maybe the subtext is that Cecil knew that’s a useless argument and an order was his only shot… lack of “obvious” writing isn’t bad writing.

0

u/bbpopulardemand Nov 18 '23

It is when a character who should be pointing out the obvious doesn't for no rational reason. And then you have a bunch of people on the internet coming up with all sorts of unsupported theories for why not...

5

u/Basic_Loquat_9344 Nov 18 '23

It really makes perfectly logical sense. The back and fourth of “what if he’s lying?” And the obvious “what if he’s not” IS the obvious train of thought, Cecil isn’t an idiot, so he didn’t bother. It’s not an unsupported theory, it’s common sense.

If you’re trying to make the argument that good writing is characters pointing out of the obvious even when they’re smarter than that… idk what to tell you except you’re just wrong.

1

u/bbpopulardemand Nov 18 '23

Except you're projecting and inserting you're own interpretation into a scenario that never happened. Even if I were to give you that Cecil were "smart" enough to predict how the conversation went, Mark clearly wouldn't have answered "what if it's not" which is evidenced by the fact that he was completely taken aback by the reveal of it being a lie upon arriving at the planet. I get that you're desperate to defend everything about this show, even a single instance of poor writing but there is no amount of inserting unwarranted "subtext" that justifies the characters not considering the most logical of scenarios.

2

u/Basic_Loquat_9344 Nov 18 '23 edited Nov 18 '23

I don’t give a damn with this show is good or bad dawg. Even if he entertained the possibility it was a lie, he’s too hung up on his guilt to care, that much was made clear, no interpretation needed, and of course he was taken back by his father being there?

It’s a weird thing to get hung up on and people aren’t purely logical beings, writing them as such WOULD be bad writing.

We can just agree to disagree.