r/GenZ • u/thisisvunfortunate • 2d ago
Why do you think dating so bad in this generation? Discussion
Where’s the romance, commitment, and communication!? I believe the amount of options both sides have because of dating apps is killing modern dating. It’s like we have the mentality of “I really like this person but, could there be greener grass?”
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u/irishitaliancroat 2d ago edited 2d ago
I think there's a few things. The lack of third spaces makes it hard to meet people in America. I'm dating someone I met in college but now that I'm working 9-5 if I was single I don't even know how I would meet someone.
I think how cooked the economy is for our generation also doesn't help at all. I recently found out the divorce rate in the US is significantly higher than in Europe, and I have a hunch this is because of the strain placed on partnerships with the reduced social service programs, as well as the increased isolation in America putting too much weight on partnerships.
I also just feel like covid took all these preexisting problems and made them significantly worse.
Lastly, I think for me the way I was socialized as a young man really prevented me from being loved or loving myself for a long time. That also combines with personal trauma as well, but I definitely treated some women in the past in ways I am not proud of and it took me a long time to work through. I wish those women nothing but the best and try to have compassion for my younger self who was doing the best he could with what he was given. I hope they do to.
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u/ImmigrationJourney2 1999 2d ago
I think the reason why divorces are lower in some European countries is either religion and/or the fact that marriage is becoming increasingly less common. Lots of younger people are choosing not to get married and some countries offer alternative options that are similar to a marriage but much easier to break up.
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u/ImmigrationJourney2 1999 2d ago
I see European countries with similar average marriage ages that have very different divorce rates, so I’m not sure how it affects it.
I am originally from Europe (now in the USA) and got married at 23, my friends were definitely having a mild mental breakdown knowing that someone their age was getting married lol.
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u/ImmigrationJourney2 1999 2d ago
If I’m not mistaken this is the one-year probability only, so they’re probably trying to highlight the fact that younger people tend to make more impulsive decisions, but the long term statistics are more important in my opinion.
For example the people that get divorced the most are people that already went through a divorce, the rates go up with the number of divorces. Someone that gets remarried at 35 years old is statistically more likely to get divorced than someone that got married for the first time at a younger age.
Age is a bit tricky in divorce statistics.
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u/Wend-E-Baconator 2d ago
The lack of third spaces makes it hard to meet people in America.
This isn't convincing to me. It's a global issue, it's not just American.
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u/jtt278_ 2d ago
Is it though? Certainty not to the same extent. There’s basically nowhere you can be in America without having to spend money
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u/MightBeAGoodIdea 2d ago
What do other places have for free third places then?
I think folks that do t think we have any are just chronically online and never look around at their options.
Parks. Libraries. Mostly empty malls. Walking trails. Community events. The Y is free for ultra low income in many cities.
What do you want?
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u/Wend-E-Baconator 2d ago
That may be, but the issue with poor relationships isn't unique to the US. It might be more expensive to date, but the fundamental incompatibilities are worsening everywhere.
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u/irishitaliancroat 2d ago
Right, but with more walkable design, vacation time, and third spaces in Europe I think it's especially a problem in the us
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u/novis-eldritch-maxim 2d ago
you think dating is doing much better globally it is shit in my nation
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u/insecureslug 2d ago
The isolation putting too much on the relationship is absolutely a huge factor. For many people their partner is their only friend, or only family. Whether it’s because of how difficult it is to make friends or because too busy to keep up with friends/family outside of work and the daily errands and playing catch up in life.
It has put strain in my marriage in the past where it was like… we can’t be the only thing we have for each other, it’s a lot of pressure.
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u/Head_Sock369 2d ago
Absolutely agree. My relationship has improved drastically when we started making an effort to create and foster loving friendships outside of our own.
I don't really think polyamory or open relationships work for most people, but reading some books on the theory behind these types of relationships exposed me to how nonsensical a closed, monogamous, exclusive relationship is for our emotional and mental well-being as individuals.
We talk about how humans are social creatures, yet the overwhelming majority of people interact with have an unsettling amount of insecurity, anxious attachment, jealousy, and possessiveness in their relationships, and most of them don't see any issue with that.
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u/irishitaliancroat 2d ago
I totally agree polyamory is not for everyone but the general idea of the nuclear family being the primary or sole social support structure is hugely damaging for people
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u/ComprehensiveCause95 1d ago
As someone who left the US for many of these reasons I can say that living in a place with 3rd spaces, healthier culture for men, social safety nets, decent economy.... Ya dating improved 10x
When basic needs are met and people feel safe it's a hell of a lot easier to work on yourself and therefore be a better partner.
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u/TechieTravis 2d ago
People have unrealistic expectations. Everyone wants to date a 10 when they themselves are not and won't work on themselves or make compromises.
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u/BONE_SAW_IS_READEEE 2002 2d ago
Seriously. If you’re overweight, working a minimum wage job and living in your mom’s basement don’t whine when supermodels turn you down.
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u/HeuristicHistorian 2d ago
Why are you hating on someone who could just be down on their luck? Being overweight, or having to live at home doesn't make you a bad person. Being cruel isn't the solution here, being empathetic is.
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u/newaccounthomie 1998 2d ago
Overweight poor people still end up dating people quite often. They just don’t end up dating 10s very often. I don’t think that’s hating, just telling someone they should lower their standards or else they’ll be alone forever.
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u/Alternative-Soil2576 2d ago
lmao he's not hating man, he's just saying you shouldn't whine when you get turned down by people who are better off, the ones who are complaining about other people should be empathetic
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u/SuccotashConfident97 2d ago
It's not hating, but if we're being real, it's generally not attractive as a man to be overweight, making minimum wage, living in your mom's basement while dating.
Why does the truth make you so upset?
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u/fucksickos 2d ago
So many guys expecting an alt girl to materialize in their lap when they spend 90% of their free time in a computer chair
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u/Thabrianking 1999 2d ago edited 2d ago
On the opposite side of the coin, some women want a traditional masculine man while not being a traditional woman in the slightest. Remember people this goes both ways.
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u/whybanana234 1d ago
Simps should stop simping and grow some self respect.
I've seen women on dating apps post that they just want a guy to come over and fix their Ikea furniture for them.
Hire a handyman, cheapskate.
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u/kiwi_cannon_ 2d ago
An alt girl who never gets older and"hits the wall." Way too many girls in our gen have had hordes of men screaming at them about how finite their value is, I'm convinced it's going to further affect the birthrate at this point.
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u/Deplorable_Gollumpus 2d ago
Ugh yep. Followed up with people who just drop all effort into their own life once the relationship starts and wonder why they get left
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u/HeuristicHistorian 2d ago
I don't actually think it's even that. My running theory for while now has been that the issue is people wanting a whole, fully formed and complete partner from the first date. Our generation is simply not willing to put in the time to build meaningful relationships and it's causing all sorts of issues that we're seeing now.
Our parents and grandparents didn't date like this. Back then you met someone you liked, you dated, got to know one another and fell in love. All the growing came after that. You grew together in your relationship and ideally, at least this is the case for the long lasting marriages, you grow into a singular person in a lot of ways. Think like the old biblical principle of two becoming one that Christianity has always preached to their couples.
Now our generation is going on one date with someone and if they aren't already a full formed person who has it 100% together there isn't a second date. It's incredibly shallow and toxic and is one of many contributing factors to the loneliness epidemic our generation is facing right now. We need to look to the past believe it or not.
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u/weatherfrcst 2d ago
It’s true growing came after the first date for our grandparents but I also think they were just a more mature and conscientious crowd from a younger age so it really is more challenging for younger generations.
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u/HeuristicHistorian 2d ago
A fucking men brother. I love my generation in a lot of ways but fuck me are we immature and in dire need of growing the fuck up.
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u/SuccotashConfident97 2d ago
Yep. Dating apps don't help either. At least for women, of they have 100+ matches, why settle for an average man? It's hard out there for the single people.
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u/Popular_Surprise2545 2d ago
Dating apps + everyone being fatter + social media + economic insecurity in younger people
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u/Mountain-Bug-4865 2d ago
Fatter, really? I feel like our generation is more fitness conscious, at least the ones I meet.
As far as people with unhealthy physiques, I think I personally know more sedentary skinny people than fat people.
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u/Popular_Surprise2545 2d ago
According to a 2021 Johns Hopkins study, 56% of Americans aged 18 to 25, or more than half of Gen Z adults, are overweight or obese. This is based on a sample of 8,015 people and compares average body mass index (BMI) over the past 40 years.
You probably just don't perceive them.
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u/Mountain-Bug-4865 2d ago
Maybe I don’t. That’s interesting. I feel like I remember seeing a lot more obese people in 2000s and early-mid 2010s.
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u/smokekirb Age Undisclosed 2d ago
Do you live in an area that’s more in shape ? Travel to somewhere that’s not and you’ll see it. Heck I live in the healthiest state and I see obese people constantly.
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u/itjustthrowaway92929 1999 2d ago
Grew up in an upper middle class city in the South where obesity was pretty normalized, especially amongst men.
Moved to major west coast city where more people are thin and health conscious. Lived there for 10 years and got used to it
Moved back to the south and everybody here is huge. Never really noticed it before.
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u/Itsametoad 2d ago
Yeah my state apparently is one of the most "fitness obsessed" in the country. We do have fat people tho, but it really does seem like every young person here has a gym membership or does some sort of physical activity
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u/Numerous1 2d ago
Legitimately I bet it’s that your perception has been skewed by constant exposure.
I’ll watch a sitcom from the 90’s and think “wow. It’s weird everyone is so skinny”. Then I realize no…no it’s not that. They just aren’t overweight.
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u/RogueDevil666 2d ago
Overweight people tend to be too self conscious to go outside much.
You see more fit people outside because they're confident enough to go outside and mingle.
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u/Ok-Hunt7450 2d ago
Statistically, we are fatter by far. Some gymbros don't make up for the actual overweight and obese population increasing by many times in 50 years.
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u/Flying_Sea_Cow 1998 2d ago
Social media + rise in narcissism + porn + gender wars + lack of third spaces. Dating isn't anywhere near as bad in Europe as it is in the USA though. I almost always have had a happier time doing it there.
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u/WompTune 2d ago
tbh? porn has ruined our generation
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u/Fruitdude 1998 2d ago
You’re getting downvoted but there’s technically some truth. It may not be what ruined it but it has a huge negative impact on people.
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u/SputteringShitter 2d ago
Porn addiction has the same negative impact on relationships as gambling addiction, or any other form of addiction.
Pretending like the existence of porn is ruining modern dating is the same as saying the existence of casinos is what's ruining modern dating.
People with unhealthy lifestyles will generally always be less attractive than people who don't have addictions. And people with addictions will always have a harder time maintaining these kinds of relationships.
But it ain't the porn's fault.
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u/BowenParrish 2d ago
I pound off like a zoo monkey and I’m in a relationship with really fucking good regular sex
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u/Alediran 2d ago
My wife and I watch together.
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u/onlyinitforthemoneys 2d ago
Same. I don’t get Reddit’s sentiment towards porn. I grew up with constant access and never once did I think to myself, “no I don’t want to have sex with a real woman because I have porn.” If anything, I’d watch porn and think to myself, “god damn, I gotta get a partner asap to try some of this”
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u/Alediran 2d ago
Exactly, women watch porn too, some watch more than men, they just have different tastes. You can learn a lot about their preferences if you watch together and let them pick.
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u/Wend-E-Baconator 2d ago
Honestly hard disagree. All porn has done to relationships is provide a way of meeting sexual needs
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u/MortyManifold 2d ago
Which is the point of relationships. Men aren’t putting their best foot forward in relationships because they can just watch porn and get satisfied that way instead
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u/Alternative-Soil2576 2d ago
if you want sex bro go buy a hooker, normal people are looking for love and connection in their relationships
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u/disciplite 2000 2d ago
That's a pretty bold claim. I know a lot of coomers who wish they weren't single.
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u/Boosted_Arrow 2d ago
yeah its all the mens fault
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u/MortyManifold 2d ago
In terms of the porn, mostly yah. Assigning fault isn’t always fair tho cus a lot of men get hooked as kids. I think women have an analogous form of this where they are getting attention from richer dudes on the internet than they would have previously. Similar to how porn provides dudes with toxic or unrealistic expectations about sex and sexual desire, the attention women are getting from simps on apps give them bad expectations about how powerful and high status their man needs to be for them to be satisfied. I think the general problem that encompasses all of this stuff is basically “internet causes expectation hyperinflation”
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u/HeuristicHistorian 2d ago
Exactly. While yes porn has caused a minority of people, men and women, to developed unhealthy and unrealistic tastes and expectations, they are hardly the majority. If anything I'd argue porn has been a bigger boon to men and women both because it allows people to get their rocks off without having to out with shitty relationships to do so.
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u/WanderingRebel09 2d ago edited 2d ago
You’re right. Women need to be choked, smacked, and receive two dicks in the ass.
Because that is what teens are watching.
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u/Maractop 2d ago
Blame all goes to men once again. Not suprising
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u/PolkaDotAmbassador 2d ago
??? This mentions porn, not men ??? Why did YOU make the jump??
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u/iSc00t 2d ago
Also hard disagree. Porn has always always been there. From the dawn of man. 😭
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u/fsociety091783 Millennial 2d ago
It has but it’s evolved a lot. What used to be just mostly nude magazines is now VR.
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1d ago
I’d say it’s the least of our problems tbh, mainly the points above about the lack of a third place, dating apps, etc have been way more harmful. Porn like all drugs is harmful if overused.
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u/Wend-E-Baconator 2d ago edited 2d ago
romance
We destroyed romantic norms. Without norms that dictate appropriate conduct, we have to act in the most bland and general way possible. This is especially true for men, who are expected to make all the advances and the bulk of the up-front effort and can lose their jobs and their freedom for making mistakes. Probably for the best for most of them, but nothing has replaced them. Dropping a napkin doesn't do the trick.
Also, people just aren't as attractive these days. Fatter and more selfish than ever before, and in an economy where the value of the dollar has dropped 40% for someone born in 2000 while expectations for life remain in the 80s. My grandfather bought war bonds in 2002 to pay for my wedding, expecting he wouldnt live to see it. They barely cover the permits and a tux rental now.
commitment
Sexual revolution got rid of the incentives to commit for men and women by destroying the pre-existing social contract and failing to replace it with anything but natural selection. Time will tell what replaces it, although legend says conservative relationship enforcement norms are returning in older Gen Z with a new and decidedly progressive flavor. It'll be interesting to see what happens with that.
communication
We are so emotionally and linguistically stunted its not even funny. Blame the internet and helicopter parents, I say. So many young people weren't and aren't allowed to learn the hard lessons and grow up well into their 20s. I'm seeing this get much worse with Gen Alpha.
I believe the amount of options both sides have because of dating apps is killing modern dating. It’s like we have the mentality of “I really like this person but, could there be greener grass?”
That hasn't reduced the options. It's dramatically inflated the expectations and fears of women, though. Lest you think I'm just raging against women, it's pretty settled. Anybody can lie to you about how perfect they are for two weeks, and there's a near-infinite supply of that on the apps that decieves you into believing better things are possible.
Also, let's not "both sides" the app thing. Most men get one hit a month and that hit rarely lasts in any meaningful way. Men generally don't get the opportunity to see if the grass is greener or not, they don't get out the door.
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u/Present_Look_8790 2d ago
Best thing I ever did for my children was divorce their mother. Every time I tried to teach them a hard lesson or let them figure something out on their own; their mother would intervene. Now I have them 50% of the time, I must say, the growth I've seen has been amazing in just two years. Turns out my 8-year-old can do almost everything for himself. And if he can't, he's going to fail at a few times before I step in to help.
Parenting is fun. Parenting with an overprotective parent who undermines you every step of the way. Not fun at all
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u/MarionberryOk9009 2d ago
Can you explain the norm part using real world examples? It's so bizarre and out of my understanding, but that's just based on anecdotal experiences. For example, I went to a cooking course for a few months, met some nice younger ladies. After a few weeks, flirted a bit, then asked one out who I thought was attractive. We had some good dates and I liked her well enough. After some time I decided to break things off due to some incompatibilies I felt, but no time was I confused about norms, or actually anything you posted here.
This reads like your in your own head too much. Can you use the example I gave to explain how that experience is changed in modern times compared to 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 years ago?
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u/Wend-E-Baconator 2d ago
Can you explain the norm part using real world examples? It's so bizarre and out of my understanding, but that's just based on anecdotal experiences. For example, I went to a cooking course for a few months, met some nice younger ladies. After a few weeks, flirted a bit, then asked one out who I thought was attractive. We had some good dates and I liked her well enough. After some time I decided to break things off due to some incompatibilies I felt, but no time was I confused about norms, or actually anything you posted here.
I'm glad you've had success, but things go south all the time. Holding the door or not. Paying the full tab or not. Talking about your feelings or not. There is no standard of what you should and shouldn't do to prove yourself early in a relationship. It gets turned into an "ick" and now the relationship is damaged beyond repair. By all means, go to a female-centric space and search for "icks" and missed signals.
Can you use the example I gave to explain how that experience is changed in modern times compared to 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 years ago?
The classic example is dropping a handkerchief. A woman would drop her handkerchief and ask her preferred man if he would pick it up for her. Everyone knew what that meant, and knew how to play along. If she wasn't into you, she'd get it herself. If you refused, you weren't interested. An indirect pass like that was possible and practical.
A more personal experience was that I had a girl break up with me because I was "too respectful" i.e. didn't push her to have sex with me when she said no. It made her insecure that I wasn't so in love with her that I wouldnt take no for an answer. Now, undoubtedly she had issues and I'm better off for not being with her, but it was just a match of norms and expectations; she expected me to push harder, and I expected her to be open and honest about her expectations.
Hell, you can apply it to "Baby it's Cold Outside". The whole song is the two of them conspiring to give her a reasonable cover story for spending the night with him. If she had ever expressed a personal desire to leave, he would have stopped. But because her concerns were about other people (maiden aunt, the neighbors) she was telling him to come up with excuses for them. You can also see how that's changed; the song is subject to debate and discussion every winter as everyone projects their own romantic norms onto the song.
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u/MarionberryOk9009 2d ago
I feel you are being too dramatic. I talk to a girl for a few weeks. Is she laughing a lot, smiling a lot. Do I enjoy her company. I get a bit flirtier, is she receptive or not, is she flirting back. Do people think it's hard to tell when a woman is flirting back now? I literally don't understand how that's possible, what's an exchange where it's unclear if a woman is flirting with you or not?
Also you example is the opposite of what you are proposing. There was an incompatibility between you and your gf, it was expressed, and you both "agreed" to end the relationship, even if maybe you didn't necessarily want it. That's as good an outcome as I can expect, and I would prefer that interaction to work that way. Wouldn't you? To me that seems very clear.
Edit: Also just too add too real quick. All the examples you provide are trivial and nothing. They are each five seconds of a conversation to solve
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u/M2Fream 2002 2d ago
Im sorry but this is deffinately a both sides issue. Men have messed with the numbers by swping on 95% of women instead of swiping only on women who they have an actual interest in.
This means that women have to do more work to filter out men who are not a good match for them because men dont self filter as well.
Tbh men who complain about dating app but continue to use them are either lieing about how bad it is, or they are the dumbest people on the planet.
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u/Wend-E-Baconator 2d ago
Im sorry but this is deffinately a both sides issue. Men have messed with the numbers by swping on 95% of women instead of swiping only on women who they have an actual interest in.
Most men don't even have an opportunity to screw things up. They never get chosen.
This means that women have to do more work to filter out men who are not a good match for them because men dont self filter as well.
Self filtering is never a trait of the desperate.
Tbh men who complain about dating app but continue to use them are either lieing about how bad it is, or they are the dumbest people on the planet.
There is a third option; desperation. And lemme tell you; most of the men still on the apps are doing it because their options are this hellscape we all inhabit or eating 12g
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u/clotteryputtonous 2001 2d ago
Unrealistic standards. Gender wars pushed by the media.
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u/kiwi_cannon_ 2d ago
I've been told I have no value after 25 since my teens. Like why would I even want to date someone? I spend my days wishing I were a lesbian at this point.
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u/Many_Dragonfly4154 2005 2d ago
Alternatively guys are told they never had any value to begin with 🤷♂️
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u/kiwi_cannon_ 2d ago
They're told they have the power to build their worth while starting at zero. Similar but not quite the same. I don't blame men who are below a 5 for not wanting to play that game. "Accrue enough resources and she'll look past your face" doesn't sound like a good time to me either.
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u/Many_Dragonfly4154 2005 2d ago
I mean you could frame it however you want, but my point was that the grass isn't greener on the other side.
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u/kiwi_cannon_ 2d ago
Where did I ever say it was? Me having a problem with something in my experience doesn't negate the issues you might have with your own.
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u/Maractop 2d ago
They're told they have the power to build their worth while starting at zero.
And its a lie. Most men men will never acquire enough wealth or resouces for that to happen. Women over 25 date with no issue. Thats not the same for men
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u/Maractop 2d ago
Get off the internet
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u/kiwi_cannon_ 2d ago
That's not even an applicable response when I've heard it plenty from my peers irl
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u/thisisvunfortunate 2d ago
Too real
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u/kiwi_cannon_ 2d ago
I know so many girls who feel the same way and it's just like an endless barrage of shrieking and harassment at us while we retreat further and further away from them.
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u/Sir_Iron_Paw 1d ago
I know, right? I'm wondering if there's really someway I can become a lesbian so I never have to think about dating men any more. Look if I just kept forcing myself to have sex with women, would something eventually click?
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u/Correct-Bullfrog-863 1d ago
yeah, the feeling is mutual. life would be so much better if i were a gay man
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u/Weekly_Ad325 2d ago
Self diagnosed mental illness, probably. People afraid to leave their safe space and talk to a real person in person.
-Third places still exist -Socializing is still effective -Risk taking is still required -Rejection is normal and ok
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u/Hellstorm111 2d ago
It never was better honestly. More like previously people were having much less options, so once they found somebody they just stayed together no matter what. Try to find a happy and harmonic couples among the pre-internet generations, and you'll be surprised of how rare they are. Most old couples just tolerate each other, there is no special bond. Nowadays people just don't stay together in such case.
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u/DunEmeraldSphere 2d ago
Monitization of communal spaces. Documentation of every interaction. Mass dissemination of information. Overall economic turmoil and instability of both worker protections and wages.
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u/MarionberryNervous19 2d ago
Social media and dating apps are the issue. Even tho my wife and I met on Tinder 2 years ago, lmao. We have both gotten rid of Instagram, snap, Facebook, and tik tok. I only go on reddit and YouTube now.
It has made it seem like millions of options are at our fingertips. U get mad at your partner? In 10min you can he talking to some other person. It has made commitment dwindle away. It has made it weird to compliment or approach women in public, it feels like taboo, like we should just act like no one exists around us, and when we get home hop on our phone to see who wants to hook up in our area. It's weird.
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u/takethisawayfromme 1999 2d ago edited 2d ago
Could be something things:
More legal freedom for women. Women back then didn’t have the same freedoms we do now (owning property, more access to jobs, owning a bank account, etc.) We don’t need to depend on men to have financial security like we had to before, so relationship dynamics changed. This is a relatively new change, so we are still adjusting and redefining what makes a relationship.
Social media and the focus on looks doesn’t help either. Being constantly bombarded with “you are ugly, do this to look better” from a young age warps our minds and gives us unrealistic standards of how a person should look and if they don’t (which is the majority of people), they’re not worthy of love or companionship. Paired with our own self esteem problems that come with being exposed to that much bs isn’t a good mix.
Porn also. We have so much access to it from a young age. It negatively affects relationships, messes us our self esteem, sexual dysfunction, development of porn addiction, etc. No bueno
Could definitely be more, but those are new(ish) problems the newer generation are faced with.
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u/Mysterious-Fly7746 2000 2d ago
Mainly it’s due to the change in culture. Dating and romance used to be a serious thing that was only done with the possibility of it leading to marriage but that mentality is pretty much gone. When neither party truly values eachother or the relationship it’s not going to last long.
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u/ParticularAd8919 2d ago edited 2d ago
Unrealistic expectations from really everyone. Also, these expectations are on the factors that aren't really that essential for making good relationships last. Sure, we all want someone we're attracted to and is able to help (that's the key word help) take care of their partner emotionally and financially. In the end though, relationships work because of mutual respect, a willingness to learn, forgive, reflect, and grow. This kind of social and emotional awareness is really lacking in a lot of folks (though I don't think this is just a Gen Z thing by any means). Couple that with the (genuinely severe) economic strains and the lack of any kind of progressive change that alleviates these stressors (or changes the expectations in the culture) for today's young folks and you've got a recipe for a lot of misery.
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u/_twisted_briar 2006 1d ago
People are more concerned about taking than giving in relationships. It's sad.
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u/MrShad0wzz 1998 2d ago
At least for me, my mental health was so bad from age 12-22 to where I never gained the experience of talking to girls and actually getting a gf. So that on top of working a 8-5 and people not really going out anymore makes things hard
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u/Ok_Resolve335 1d ago
I understand that working full time can be a bitch when it comes to finding time to date but trust me dude, a bunch of people still go out. You just have to put yourself out there
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u/PsychologicalClass35 2d ago
I feel like it’s not that bad. As an elder gen z (born 1999) I never had a lot of problems that I think are unique to just our generation. Yes, sometime you get your heart broken but you get back up and keep looking. As long as you don’t allow the actions of a few shitty people to make you a bitter person then I think it’s not hard. I mean honestly, if you’re a nice person that is loyal and emotionally intelligent you probably have to beat people off with a stick. The people who complain the most are probably just unrealistic and lazy.
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u/asianstyleicecream 1997 2d ago
No time to date.
Where would I find someone without using dating apps?
People suck at socializing (me included, I’m oblivious to flirtation lol, I’m just nice to everyone and somehow taken as flirting and idk when someone is flirting to me).
People expect a perfect unflawed person, which… doesn’t exist. The point of relationship is to be able to work together and be there for eachother at hard times. You’re not supposed to be a flawless person and be flawless together, that’s so unrealistic.
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u/Boodle6 2002 2d ago
Idk about other people, but for me it's the fact that I've come to realize that I prefer meeting people in person (dating apps aren't really my thing), but I'm also too shy to make the first move. I'm also introverted and autistic (officially diagnosed since '04), so that pretty much just keeps me almost house-bound since a lot of the typical "third places" cause me to get sensory overload. I've pretty much accepted the fact that I'll be the cat lady when I get older.
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u/ehudsdagger 2d ago
In the same dilemma, like I prefer meeting people in person...but I never put myself in positions where I can meet new people in person, because I'd rather be at home reading or doing a hobby. And when I am out, it's with friends I already have, and at their places/outdoor settings lmao. So I'm just like 🤷🏻♂️ If I'm single, so be it
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u/Maractop 2d ago
Average women are not attracted to average men. Many women would rather share a hot guy and stay single than date an average one.
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u/Noggi888 2d ago
The main proponent is social media. It’s either given you such a big ego to where you constantly are looking for something better and never settle down as well as are looking for someone way out of your league. Or it has given you large scale insecurity problems so you have no confidence in yourself and push people away. Apply that with the lack of third spaces/the economy, and you got a generation that doesn’t know how to interact with other people in a healthy way
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1d ago
Yeah its a problem for both genders (mainly helps women biologically since men aren’t as picky) Also I do hope eventually there should be a turning point where mainly social medias like instagram are looked down upon because to be honest some people use it exclusively just to advertise themselves.
Then especially with us younger gen growing up with instagram in middle/high school if you have good genetics and you were an attractive person people would like your posts and you can already start to develop narcissism. That trait really kills dating even further when dating long term is really supposed to be self less.
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u/Opposite-Birthday69 2d ago
From my own experience I’ve had the most issues from men who watch too much porn. I’ve been called a prude a lot because I want physical steps to be very slow. I am upfront that it takes me longer to feel attraction and comfortable around other people. For some reason men and women see this as a challenge and try and pressure me into sex.
My longest relationship was with a guy that not only tried to pressure me into sex but tried to pressure me into anal only sex immediately. Like we hadn’t even kissed yet and he was all over trying to get in my ass. I said some not so nice words (go find a guy basically; he did say that he was gay before) and he said that it’s because of all the girls liking it in porn.
I don’t know I honestly wish people would respect my boundaries a bit more. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask that we take each physical step slower
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u/Sir_Iron_Paw 1d ago
Every girl I know has had a bad experience with a man that came from him wanting to act out stuff he'd seen in porn with her. Often without even considering the logistics of it or how uncomfortable and unpleasant it would be for her. Sometimes the fact that it would be uncomfortable and unpleasant for her is the point.
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2d ago edited 2d ago
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u/disciplite 2000 2d ago
This is really bad advice lmao. NO, women will not slowly develop a romantic or attraction over a long span of time simply because they like you as a friend. When hetero women spend lots of time with a man, they are usually pretty upset when he eventually makes a move on them.
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u/Unfair-Sprinkles2912 2d ago
To add to that, men who only befriend women with the intention for it to become more without being honest about are problamatic
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u/My_useless_alt 2007 2d ago
And most of the time, the woman will see right through them anyway, that strategy is rarely subtle.
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u/getzerolikes 2d ago
Yeah that comment is half desperate, half plain wrong. There’s zero hope for guys if they’re not 6’5”.. haha what?
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u/disciplite 2000 2d ago
My boyfriend is like 5'9 or something. I love him because he's extremely sweet and makes me a priority and we have a great deal of shared interests in art and computing. It's laughably obvious in reality that you don't need to be tall to get laid.
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u/Numerous1 2d ago
Yeah, this is like “like Skywalker “amazing everything you said is wrong” gif territory. None of this is true.
And he mentions the “I have friends that make a lot of money but they are single!!!” Well shit okay. Are they dicks? Do they have equally bad views about woman as this guy does? (“Women laugh at the dumbest jokes hahaha”)
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u/ParticularAd8919 2d ago edited 2d ago
One thing I would press on younger folks (I'm a millennial) is that you really do have to get used to the idea of "failing" at dates and to not let those define you. With dating there really isn't anyway around "trial and error". Your confidence and skill can and will increase with practice and by stepping outside of the expectations you have when something isn't working. Chances are, most people do not find their life partner or a life partner after just dating one or two people. It's a ton of trial and error. Which is demoralizing if you haven't had a lot of success (especially in the beginning) but eventually you are able to see that it's a process and journey. In the mean time, try having fun with it as well. Just be sure you're communicating honestly. You're not a loser for striking out (99.99% of people do and do A LOT).
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u/smokekirb Age Undisclosed 2d ago
I think this applies to a lot of men as well though. I am speaking from anecdotal experience but the women I know are not too picky. I mostly see that kind of crap online.
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u/itjustthrowaway92929 1999 2d ago
I think the sexual activity stats amongst men and women these days prove their point through.
The same amount of young girls are as sexually active as they’ve always been, but the amount of men is going down down down.
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u/Alternative-Soil2576 2d ago
Most of this just exists on dating apps man, the real world is a lot different, people are still dating the old-fashioned way and finding love
plus your take is confusing? You say women are dating spoiled men but you're complaining your 150k+/yr friends aren't getting dates? Do you want women to date men based on their character or not? What's your point?
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u/mandymiggz 1996 2d ago edited 1d ago
I love how you place pretty much all the blame on women.
One of my oldest friends turns 29 in December. He has no hobbies other than playing video games and watching shows on streaming, barely a personality, and a dad bod that ages him around 10 years (I’m not kidding, he’s around 270lb with a legit beer belly). He’s living at his parent’s house despite making enough to live on his own pretty comfortably and is also conservative (basically prefers his bird’s nest/echo chamber to real world experiences).
He legit said he “doesn’t think women our age consider politics when dating” and literally “forgot” that Roe v Wade was overturned. He also exclusively likes women that are out of his league and can’t fathom why he can’t get a girlfriend (he showed me the pic of the last girl he asked out who rejected him - she is literally his fitness instructor at orange theory; he had no shot even if he was the last man on earth).
I feel like his case is pretty common for a lot of guys his age/generation (except him being pretty financially stable on his own): absolutely no self awareness or understanding of what most women want out of a partner and/or relationship while simultaneously being the opposite of a “catch” and needing to do tons of work on themselves first.
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u/Electrical-Rabbit157 2004 2d ago
The 08 recession destroyed a huge number of marriages which led to record amounts of trust and attachment issues in people our age
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u/iwannagofast10 2d ago
Women want equal financial opportunity but simultaneously want their partner to make more money.
Men want women equally as keen to hook up with them but simultaneously want to marry someone more pure than them.
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u/ThousandTroops 2d ago
I mean we live in a world where people will post “AITA for putting a broom in the pantry instead of a closet” and they will get 8,000 people telling them their spouse or significant other is abusing them, instead of just having a normal conversation.
Your philosophy of “greener grass” is also dead-on. The internet exists almost solely to show us the “greener grass” - not just physically, but every facet of humanity. If I neglect laundry in our house for a few days, my wife will inevitably find something on Instagram of a husband doing the laundry - he could be a serial killer for all we knows it doesn’t matter...
Social media for both those in relationships and outside relationships creates this image in everyone’s head of the perfect person “in aggregate”, which just dilutes the reality we live in.
Idk, rant over. 😑🥲
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u/Bear_necessities96 2d ago
People don’t leave their houses
People don’t drink much
Lack of social skills
Dating apps sucks
Women are more independent so they have less dependence on male figures(this is good tho)
Less social pressure for marriage
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u/I_hate_mortality 2d ago
Because before social media you had to interact with people, even those you didn’t like. This made everyone more polite and social.
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u/LucastheMystic 1998 2d ago
We're anxious, poor, and working all the time. There's just not time for Love or Happiness.
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u/ShroveGrove 1999 2d ago
I can’t answer why dating is so bad, but I can answer why I am single as an older Gen Z woman. First, I just haven’t met a guy I really clicked with. Crushes I’ve had were work crushes and didn’t make sense. I don’t think I’m too picky, and I’m not waiting for Prince Charming, but I do have certain criteria that is really important to me in a relationship. Financial responsibility (as finances are a huge cause of divorce), sexual compatibility, not too big of an age difference, loyalty, trust, communication, similar family plans (I only want one kid & adoption, OR not having any), mutual emotional and physical attraction, a healthy lifestyle, good chemistry… I don’t need the Perfect Man™️. But I do want someone who is interested in having a long term relationship with me, and the men I’ve met on dating apps either weren’t interested in me for a LTR or disinterested overall. This is why I’ve actually abandoned Hinge. I’ve just accepted that I’ll be single until I’m in a relationship with someone who wants me. I’m banking on meeting someone IRL. Until then, I’m doing the cliche thing of “dating myself.”
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u/Top-Jeweler4501 2d ago
Because most people are ignorant about what attachment theory is and operating on loops of unconscious childhood trauma.
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u/Covenanter1648 2007 2d ago
Idk I personally am demiromantic so I don't understand dating. I mean I go out with my gf for dates but thats not how or why we love eachother. We just got together by being really close friends and then got feelings for eachother. I wonder if more people are realising that they're actually demi as we have become a far more permissive society which encourages us to question what we think we know about ourselves so less people are conventionally dating.
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u/NuclearNick007 2d ago
People have more options with the internet and are thus less likely to put in the work to keep what is in front of them.
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u/Illustrious-Sea2613 2000 2d ago
It can be harder to meet people if you're in a place where you're in an isolated community that doesn't have anything to do. I think people think that the grass is always greener and that they need to leave for any little mistake, when relationships take work, effort & patience
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u/My_useless_alt 2007 2d ago
Honestly, idk. I've never seen or heard anyone complain about it IRL, and was never really interested in it myself.
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2d ago
- There are not a lot of social places to meet that are free.
- People are scared to get called creeps
- People take themselves too seriously and don’t want to open up
- I’m a lot of us got abused as kids and have trouble trusting.
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u/Fallen-Shadow-1214 2d ago
Social Media.
Simple as, no online communication can ever match real human contact and we’re seeing the effects of that real time.
We need to localise.
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u/Thabrianking 1999 2d ago
The economy, social media perceptions of men and women, and the lack of third places, specifically these problems I have seen in the U.S. where I live.
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u/Bacon-80 On the Cusp 2d ago
I think with the addition of media/comparison/jealousy people have wayyyy unrealistic expectations of relationships and/or marriage these days which is what’s hurting dating. I loathe the “if he wanted to he would” statement because it’s simply not true. Lots of guys/girls want to do things in their relationship but simply don’t have the financial ability to, or the ability to in general. I’ve seen so many little 20 year olds complaining that their 20 year old boyfriend isn’t wifing them up and it’s like…bro can’t wife anyone up because your unrealistic expectations are beyond his capabilities. Same goes for dating 🤷🏻♀️ realistic ≠ lowering your standards.
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u/Anon_cat86 2d ago
first of all i think that sentiment is needless doomerism. Dating isn't that bad. it's always been hard, people have always mostly sucked.
That being said, it's literally just the internet. It's not just the unrealistic standards, it's the fact that most socializing has moved online, which comes with 2 main problems:
First, there are certain rules for etiquette that ironically are a lot more stringent due to this. you hear a lot about the creep who for some reason isn't getting kicked out of the nightclub, but attempts to "be better" than that result in like reddit or insta ai autofiltering posts for completely arbitrary reasons, or mods on forums or discord banning people for disagreeing with them. Combine that with the tiktokers and twitter users whining about how they hate it when their friends confess feelings or someone they met in discord starts getting flirty, not to mention all the blatant ragebait brainrot, and it all just comes together to create a completely unclear and unreasonable set of social norms that make any displays of sexuality or romance feel extremely uncomfortable and anxious.
Second, there's the fact that online hangouts are not the same as irl ones. there's the physical aspect; a lot is lost when you're only interacting with a screen, and hell you've people treating VOICE CHAT as though it's unusually intimate. you can't really communicate tone or read the other person's emotional state through their face or body language, not to mention that our bodies are just programmed to release seratonin when we're physically near other people, and that doesn't happen online. the main thing, however, i think, is that there's no obligation to continue socializing. People can and regularly do just bail from a conversation with no explanation. you never have awkward moments and you never even have quiet intimacy. And especially when you don't know someone that well, that makes it pretty hard to form a relationship
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u/JustSomeDude0605 2d ago edited 2d ago
Many reasons:
Young people are broke and dating is expensive.
Young people aren't as social as older generations, so many are uncomfortable meeting new people.
We've demonized the idea of men pursuing women. It's looked down on to date coworkers. Men are told to not pursue women at their jobs, or at the gym, or when they are out with their friends, or when they are out minding their own business. So when exactly are men supposed try and break the ice?
Housing is too expensive and jobs don't pay enough, so young people live with their parents for longer, which is very unattractive for those looking for partners.
Online porn has given many young men unrealistic expectations regarding sex and how women should look.
Social media culture has given young people unrealistic expectations of how people should look and act.
The manosphere has created a lot of toxicity that isn't attractive to most women.
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u/Sir_Iron_Paw 1d ago
The last one, especially. The manosphere is responsible for creating bitter and lonely men, and will be the reason many of those men never find love.
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u/I_hate_being_alone 2d ago
By the age girls realize what an average dude is like, the average dude is out of their league.
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u/SputteringShitter 2d ago
Commodification of the human experience leading to the enshitification of the human experience.
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u/Ok-Hunt7450 2d ago
People don't mention this a lot: social atomization.
Its not simply 'third spaces' people just dont have a community anymore for the most part. No social clubs, everyone leaves their hometown/city. People move far from friends and family. Theres not many obvious paths to meeting people. Apps made this worse, but without apps there are very few ways to date for post-undergrad adults who dont work in a 'social' industry.
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u/Many_Dragonfly4154 2005 2d ago
Too many women who think they are the greatest thing to ever exist (they aren't)
Too many men who put up with this shit and enable them to act this way (since when has simping ever worked?)
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u/Hosj_Karp 1999 2d ago
corporations want the sexes to hate each other to further atomize society and get us to buy more shit
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u/SuccotashConfident97 2d ago
A few reasons.
- People aren't fine with having an average partner. They often expect better or the best, even if they're average themselves.
- Social media creates a grass is always greener mentality.
- Dating apps very much dehumanized people, making everyone appear replaceable in an instant for the most trivial things.
Those definitely create a harsh and difficult dating climate.
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u/Stark556 1998 2d ago
Social media and echo chambers telling all sides that they’re all perfect and don’t need to settle for anything less.
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u/Espieonage 2d ago
We can't meet people.
The only spaces that it's socially acceptable to seek out potential relationships are at like bars or nightclubs.
Everywhere else, you run a much higher risk of making someone really uncomfortable which never feels great. It's extremely uncommon to meet people in person anymore.
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u/hannahbananaballs2 2d ago
Preparing generations for ww3, which we are in chapter 6 of, currently..
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u/The_Se7enthsign 2d ago
100% dating apps. I PROMISE YOU that if my wife and I had encountered each other on Tinder, she would have 100% swiped NO. Conversation rules the nation. People have got to go out and actually meet in person.
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u/Southern_Dig_9460 2d ago
Average woman thinks she deserves better than the average man. The average man thinks he deserves better than the average woman. Also all the dopamine and instant gratification from our brains form technology and hook up culture makes it’s hard to pair bond
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u/chief_yETI 2d ago
Smartphones.
Smartphones resulted in overreliance in dating apps, and fried everyone's brains to the point that everyone has bad social skills nowadays lmao
it was a double whammy
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u/TheWayIChooseToLive 1d ago
There are a lot of good reasons that people have listed out here.
Really all these issues stem from social media/dating apps. Think about it. We have moved towards convenience and the next best thing. Most people really don't want to put extra effort into going outside and forming connections.
Talking to people face-to-face is far more valuable than doing it online.
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u/Joebebs 1996 1d ago edited 1d ago
No money, no time annnnd too expensive..for starters at least.
Before the internet everyone met/talked to everyone physically, no texting/dming beforehand so every ice breaker needed to be trialed and errored in public with single people or through the phone if you got their home phone number. With the internet now there’s less single people having a need to go out and find people plus now you can really sift through multiple conversations in theory without committing to anything, thus getting comfortable with the ease of access and not needing to go out to find someone.
Basically single people have so many options now to meet and CHOOSE before they commit to anything physically which is why it’s tougher to date.
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u/grenharo 1d ago
yes that mentality is called FOMO.
these days there's so much FOMO everywhere that it's basically brainrot and invades all areas of your life
there's also a lot of fearmongering over "settling" which ends up in a lot of people being completely unable to actually connect emotionally because they're scared their partner isn't The One.
you only get a good relationship through effort. you have to water the grass for it to be green. the grass could be greener on the other side too but only if you water that too, which a lot of people will still fail at lol
theyre too used to results without work, they're the type that see happy couples and really want that but then have no genuine idea how to get there.
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u/whybanana234 1d ago
Cheap dopamine.
Dating apps for instance are 4:1 men:women.
Men and woman also have different ideas of what constitutes a swipe. So women are more selective while men are a lot more generous with swipes. This means that women end up with a LOT more swipes. It doesn't help that dating apps are shallow and encourage looking at attractiveness as purely based on looks. The men that end up getting a higher number of likes are more likely to be looking for a casual situation and women are cautious about that. It's also a false choice presented that makes you think you can always "trade up" for a better match with better looks, money, etc. Bombarded with all of that cheap dopamine, nobody wants to actually date.
The social norms for communication have also changed. Ghosting people is extremely rude. Ignoring people's messages and calls is rude. But it is what constitutes common practice in modern communications in both the workplace and personal life. Unfortunately. Avoiding eye contact when talking to someone used to be considered a sign of lunacy, but it's now a normal in communication.
This generation spends too much time online to understand the courtesies of real life communication. Building a real relationship requires patience, politeness, and a certain ease with handling real life situations. In real life, you make mistakes and mistakes will be made by others too. It takes maturity to navigate this. It also take a degree of forgiveness and comfort with uncomfortable conversation. This generation ABSOLUTELY SUCKS at this from being chronically online.
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u/Pegmaster6969696969 1d ago
My grandpa had two families and the same time and he used to choke my grandma
Romance commitment and communication have never been there, we now just don't like to pretend they're there
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u/BigAskHawk 1d ago
Too busy grinding that dollar so I can afford shit. Even though I make a decent amount of money, my partner choice has to picky because divorce is expensive. I wouldn’t want any setbacks in my career or goals of owning property.
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u/Beneficial-Lake2756 1d ago
I think it is a lot of “there could be better people” and the fact that everyone is “talking” to someone without any intention of dating and just want the attention
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u/SureElephant89 1d ago
1) The culture. Hooking up has always been a thing, I won't pretend it wasn't.. But it's alot more accessible.
2) Time. It's impossible to find time to date, especially if you want any free time outside of 3 jobs just to pay rent and eat. Which is why, see #1
3) Dating costs money. See #2
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u/BiggurneyWHAA 1d ago
Long answer: the way our society is laid out currently it pushes most men and women to dislike each other men are starting to lean more conservative and want family values while women are very left leaning and promiscuous. Man whores also ruin a large majority of most women.
short answer: bitches be tweaking
reality: its not really that bad unless your chronically online. If you go out in the real world most people are actually pretty chill
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u/Responsible_Ad_7733 1d ago
Honestly, neoliberalism. "Be anything you want, go anywhere you want" basically just created a culture in which you have to cram as much into your life as possible into the shortest amount of time; travel, live abroad, educate yourself till you're sick, get an ever better paying job, etc etc. It's left no psychological room for actual commitment/familiy - which is the usual end goal of dating. Everyone is far more infantilised than previous generations due to the huge amount of attention millennials got from parents compared to previous generations and a limitless amount of opportunities and pressure to meet them. A society can't reasonably date under these conditions.
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u/snipman80 1d ago
Dating apps. I am willing to bet the majority of the people here are on tinder or bumble or whatever other apps. Do not use them. They have no incentive to help you. They make money when you use the app by selling your data like everyone else, so if they can keep you on the app, they get to collect more and sell more. So if these apps did work, they would lose out on millions of dollars each week. It is in their best financial interest to keep everyone on these apps single.
The best solution: find social clubs in your local area and go to social events. Talk to literally everyone you meet, even if you don't find them attractive. And don't just talk to girls or guys. Talk to literally anyone who has a pulse. If you want to start a conversation off great, speak a little louder than those around you, be energetic and positive, and start with a compliment and make a joke. When you get to the small talk part of the conversation, don't be afraid to make a few jokes during it and be sure to ask "why" and "how" questions about their hobbies, interests, and annoyances. People love to talk about what they love and what they hate. Also, do not go into a conversation thinking "I hope they like me." Instead, say "I hope I like them." And when making jokes, make them funny to you. If other people don't like them, they can leave. Use a lot of body language and don't be afraid to touch someone's shoulder, upper back, arms, or knees when talking to them. Just don't touch core areas like chest, lower back, thighs, etc and keep the touch to maybe 2-3 seconds. Just like a quick pat on the back, things like that if the topic or joke makes sense for it. For example, when I talk to my friends and someone makes a joke about them, I put my hand on their shoulder and say something like "I can't believe you would bully my friend like that" in a goofy voice. And that's another thing, do not be afraid to use voices. It makes your stories and conversations more engaging and funny.
To put this super simply, be yourself and be proud of yourself. Don't worry about what someone else will think about you. If that is an issue for you, do the Noah Kagan challenge. Go to a Starbucks or some other coffee shop in another county or township or a place you rarely go to and when you go to pay for your order, say "hey, can I get 10% off?" They will say no. The point is not to get 10% off $5, but rather to get you used to rejection and possible embarrassment. Keep doing it until it feels like second nature to you and you don't even think about what they or others will say. At that point, you have successfully overcome any fear of rejection or embarrassment.
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u/losingthemind 1d ago
I got heart broken once and then after that I just pretty much quit lmao, and that was 6 years ago. I’m cooked 💀
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