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u/CappyJax 4d ago
I never believed it. The hardest working people are poor, and the most evil exploiters of them living a life of luxury are rich.
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u/OcclusalEmbrasure 4d ago
I don’t disagree with you, but it’s really about leverage. If you don’t have leverage, you’re probably not getting paid what you think you should.
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u/Lucky_Shop4967 4d ago
That’s the exploitation the person you are replying to is talking about. Not everyone that is a hard worker is wired towards exploitation.
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u/OcclusalEmbrasure 4d ago edited 4d ago
An employer who has leverage is exploiting you, I never denied that. My point is that it’s leverage that gives people power. If your best skill set is equivalent to a high school student, you have no leverage. You can obtain leverage by obtaining and developing skills, or by creating value. If not, the employer has all the leverage and will use it to exploit you.
Leverage goes both ways. It’s just people like you refuse to see it both ways. You just think employers with all the leverage will pay you more out of the goodness of their heart. No, you as person has to create leverage so that you can demand it.
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u/AvatarReiko 4d ago
Curious. Why is our economic system set up in such a way that the people who do most of the hard labour get paid the least those higher up get paid shit tons for nothing. Is there a specific reason or some benefit this?
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u/SAGry 4d ago
The people on the top are paid for different things. Somebody has to take the risk of setting up the factory, buying equipment, risk getting sued, etc. rich people are compensated for taking risk, not for doing manual labor. How much risk deserves how much compensation? Is there a world where things work differently? I have no idea and people will argue here for hours but that’s the basic logic it.
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u/DavidisLaughing 4d ago
I think the point many here are trying to make is that those who have the money and power are earning vast amounts of profits while paying workers below living wages. We as the people should collectively be saying that’s enough, you can have your profits after you pay living wages to all your workers.
The greed of the owner / investor class has gotten out of control. It doesn’t take a scholar to see this. If a position requires a human to dedicate 30-40 hours a week to complete then that human should make enough money to sustain themselves comfortably.
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u/ForeverWandered 4d ago
We as the people should collectively be saying that’s enough
The problem is people like you say this instead of doing fuck all about it.
Because you refuse to accept the reality of life that you have to advocate and fight for your meals, whether you like it or not.
The people you cry about who exploit do so. But there are also cool people who are nice who also do so. You guys only look at the “nice” people who passively watch themselves get fucked by the system and don’t do anything to figure out where they actually do have leverage or if they don’t, figure out how to get it.
Sleepwalking thru life crying about the living wage you are owed and yet not actually creating value makes you come across as whiny and entitled, not like someone worth giving a damn about.
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u/Famous_Age_6831 4d ago
Damn if it’s so hard I’ll gladly take the risk and the money that comes with it, and they can live the easy life of a retail worker lol. I’ll trade any day.
Rich people are rich bc they’re lucky
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u/Internal-Flight4908 4d ago
Exactly... and far too many people buy into the flawed logic that our economy is "zero sum". It really doesn't MATTER how rich somebody else is able to make themselves. Their wealth doesn't mean there's automatically less possible wealth for you to attain because they "have almost all of it already".
It's not like a pie where the super rich cut themselves 7/8ths. of the pie so nobody else can ever earn more than fractions of the 1/8th. left.
The problem has much more to do with people's ability to earn fair pay for the labor they actually do, and the available opportunities to better themselves.
In America, we really gutted out most of our "middle class" when we decided factory work was beneath us and could all be outsourced elsewhere. It simply wasn't true that we had enough good paying work that didn't require the manual labor to make up for it. What we were left with was a glut of fast food restaurants, retailers, call centers and basic service industries to serve as the "replacements" for that labor pool. Then they get angry when that low-value labor doesn't pay what they would have earned assembling new refrigerators or stoves, or ?
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u/Such_Conversation_11 4d ago edited 4d ago
But the rich are not taking risks.
Banks and insurers are assuming most of the risk as the rich take out loans.
(edit: This doesn’t even touch corporate umbrellas that can shield a corporate entity from said risk, the bankruptcy game, and the copious amount of government subsidies these “captains of industry” receive.)
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u/OcclusalEmbrasure 4d ago
Banks and insurers? They may finance small businesses owned by mom and pop, but that’s not how large corporations work.
Investors put seed capital that has potential for total loss of equity. If they manage to go public, they sell equity to market investors or sell corporate bonds for new capital. Both of which has potential for total loss for the investors and bond holders.
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u/OcclusalEmbrasure 4d ago
Because in a world of finite resources, everyone is fighting each other for power. The cost of labor in my country also has to compete with the cost of labor in other countries like China. It’s embedded in everything.
If I paint your fence and do a crappy job, but I worked real hard otherwise, should I get the same pay as someone else who equally worked hard but did a better job?
If I am good at digging holes, but cannot monetize my own labor, is it fair to sell my labor to a company who can monetize me digging holes? Is if fair that the company takes a portion of that value so that I can have guaranteed pay?
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u/lostcauz707 4d ago
A key reason poor demographics stay poor. After redlining and no reparations, the median equity of black Americans today is about $30k. Meanwhile the median equity of a white American is $190k. Years of leveraging that for higher education and paying debts has kept the poor poor as multi-generational wealth basically runs the existence of one demographic and doesn't exist for the other.
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u/Sweezy_McSqueezy 4d ago
Now do this analysis on Asian and African immigrants that come to the country with nothing.
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u/YesterdayOne7917 4d ago
They literally have to have SOMETHING to be able to afford to move to america and become citizens. Its not free or easy
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u/tboykov 4d ago
To the redditer who brought up the good point, usually it's much less than 30k... Can say from first hand experience.
Not to say there aren't issues influencing the posted statistics, but generational wealth isn't remotely all of it.
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u/YesterdayOne7917 4d ago
Thats what many people dont even make a year in this country… if you can save 20-30k you arent poor
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u/-Kazt- 4d ago
There is hard work, and there is work with qualifications.
I've worked in kitchens, as a personal assistant to a disabled guy, and a secretary of an educational committee.
The kitchen work was way harder, and I could feel exhausted after the day, and dreading the morning when I woke up. But any able bodied person would become adept after a few months.
The personal assistant was mind numbingly boring, long hours, and you were essentially there to be on standby for when he needed something. Of a 14.5 hour workday, maybe 2-3 were active work. The rest standby.
The secretary job, is moderately active, I can plan my days/weeks mostly how I see fit. Attention to detail and qualifications are essential. And it's mostly about problem solving, research, and being able to assist.
The kitchen work is definitely the hardest out of all of these, but anyone could do it. The personal assistant was definitely the easiest, and anyone could do it.
The secretary job is in the middle. But to be able to do it, you need 3-5 years of studies in the field, and a lot of hands on guided training.
Guess which one pays the most?
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u/lostcauz707 4d ago
My dad built a 3 br house in 1988, paid for 2 kids to go to college, owned 5 cars, took us on vacation, retired making $27/hr and has a pension. His qualifications? He stocked shelves at Stop and Shop for 30 years. Copium is in demanding more of ourselves and less of the people who pay us.
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u/AfraidCraft9302 4d ago
Love this story. Good stuff!!
Just a glorified bagger and stocker here for 23 years, made 145k last year.
What a world
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u/lostcauz707 4d ago
Is it glorified? We have people will literally billions of dollars. That money came from somewhere. If wages kept up with production, 6 figures salaries would be the norm here.
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u/AfraidCraft9302 4d ago
I was saying it in jest lol.
I know the salaries at my grocery chain are higher than the norm.
It was just nice someone could give a family a house and life working grocery.
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u/Radiant_Welcome_2400 4d ago
Lmfao the money comes from their businesses. No one has a billion in cash.
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u/-Kazt- 4d ago
27/hour in 1988 would be 71/hour today, so you probably need to be more specific. If it was 71/hour back then, that's still pretty great. And at 27/hour today, he would be making over the average income back then.
And oh boy, he was living the life.
The median size of a new home in 1980 was 1600square feet. So he was probably above that. (That said, I'm pretty sure you could build such a house relatively easy in for example north Dakota, assuming you maintain the standards for a house in 1988)
Only 17% of households owned 3 or more cars in 1990, so that's pretty significant.
Private college really has exploded in pricing, but state college remains pretty affordable, so if you make the median salary, sending two kids to college isn't particularly noteworthy.
And yes, there is higher demand on the low skilled labourers today, because there is more competition for them.
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u/avocado_pits86 4d ago
The person you are replying to said their parent retired at $27/hr not that they started at that wage.
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u/Flyingsheep___ 4d ago
Labor doesn't actually add value to work, it just gets things done. And it's also important to not confuse different scales of work. A psychiatrist that spends 12 years getting qualified to do their job works an extremely relaxed job sitting on a couch helping people out while their cat sits on their lap, making a ton more money than someone who works retail for 13 hours a day. Working harder doesn't magically sweat money into your job.
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u/resumethrowaway222 4d ago
Sure, say the line, but out of the people I know, the most successful are the smartest and hardest working and the correlation is obvious.
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u/robanthonydon 4d ago
Hmmm maybe mega mega rich, the people I know who are financially comfortable for the most part did work hard in their careers
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u/kkdawg22 4d ago
Cope harder… I know plenty of lazy poor people and hard working rich people. There are all kinds in every tax bracket.
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u/zerof3565 4d ago
The hardest working people are poor
The Asian American population has disproved this idea.
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u/Hawk13424 4d ago
Were they the hardest working when it came to school and learning in-demand skills?
I find most just don’t work hard at the right things. Learning skills. Especially important to work hard at this when young (15-24).
Ace all your classes in HS. Take every dual credit and AP class you can. Study like crazy for the SAT/ACT. Go to a trade school or college. Take the most difficult classes you can. Ace them. Work while doing so. Internships, co-op, etc. Continue developing skills throughout your career.
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u/Alfred-Adler 5d ago
Working hard = not enough
Working smart = not enough
Working both hard and smart and long hours = you have a chance
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u/Curious_Associate904 5d ago
The highest predictor of success is if you have a rich dad.
You don't have a chance, unless you have a rich dad.
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u/Vlascia 4d ago
My dad was a poor European immigrant who came here, married several times, had 9 kids he didn't raise or pay child support for, and then died penniless. So basically, what you're saying is that I'm screwed.
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u/choffers 4d ago
No, just that you'll have a harder time than someone with a rich dad.
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u/Wtygrrr 4d ago
They literally said that someone like that doesn’t have a chance, not that they have a slim chance.
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u/computernerd55 4d ago
Lol at your defeatist mentality
You dont need a rich dad to be doing well
if you're an American citizen you have way more opportunities to make it compared to the rest of the world
If anything you're the reason for your own failures, stop trying to deflect the blame
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u/yosoyeloso 4d ago
Actually it’s all about uncles. A true successful person surrounds themselves with rich uncles and has monthly meetings about diversifying their rare fish collection. Few understand
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u/Throwawhaey 4d ago
This depends upon what you're defining as success. If we're talking about breaking into the .1%, then having that rich dad is critical. If we're talking about moving into the upper middle class/lower rich class, then you can definitely do it without a rich parent.
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u/Mz_Hyde_ 4d ago
Not true, my family came to America poor as dirt. My dad and his sister worked under the table at a church at a very young age just to scrape together enough money for their family to afford rent in a terrible neighborhood.
So he did not have a rich dad, but he turned into an upper middle class man. Sadly through a series of medical problems he lost all his money and died penniless at a somewhat young age. I started my adult life living with a random person off Craigslist and like $7 in my bank account lol.
I’m not rich but I live comfortably in my own home without the need for roommates. I worked hard, but I also tried to work smart. Working hard at a restaurant wasn’t helping me, so I half assed that shit, while ACTUALLY working hard to get tech certs in my free time.
So really all you gotta do is work hard at things That further your goals, but don’t waste energy on dead end stuff
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u/Bigdaddymuppethunter 4d ago
Speak for yourself. I’ve met plenty successful people who came from nothing, most actually.
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u/MikesRockafellersubs 4d ago
You mean getting you family to get you an employee reference right out of college?
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u/Outside-Emergency-27 4d ago
We have known since decades now through a plethora of studies that "working hard" to make it is little more than a myth in the US.
No, anecdotal evidence doesn't make it true. The are structural barriers that prevent even the hardest working from upwards mobility and there are tons of thousands of studies on this by now, I have only read a dozen.
Two interesting ones can be found via the tags "Inequality Paradox Explained" and "Belief in Meritocracy". I forgot what the rest of the paper was with "Belief in Meritocracy", but Google Scholar should spew out thousands of articles.
Americans are blind to the academic literature on this topic though apparently. Some studies have literally disproved that "the regular people" have an effect on politics while super wealthy basically get their will always, regular people only "by coincidence" when the rich wanted the same.
See "Thesting Theories of Majoritarian Pluralism" from 2014.
The studies cited in this paper are also very interesting.
Wake up Americans and get your democracy under YOUR hands. Good luck wishes a random German.
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u/MikesRockafellersubs 4d ago
It's sad how well documented structural barriers and economic wage structures are and yet you have middle class pricks telling you to just work smarter.
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u/BlackMoonValmar 4d ago edited 4d ago
I mean the USA Supreme Court ruled the more money you have the stronger your freedom of speech is. That was involving Super PACs, and their right to sway elections.
It’s funny it’s not bribery now unless someone hands you a bag of money and directly makes a statement like, “Vote no on prop 3 next Tuesday” and you accept the money and follow through with it. Meanwhile handing someone a bag of money and just saying vote in my interest for your foreseeable career, and I will give you even more money. Is not bribery because it’s just lobbying for your cause lol.
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u/Herknificent 4d ago
It’s true. The only reason Bob Menendez is getting charged is because he took his bribe in a comically cartoonish villain way… stacks of cash and gold bars.
If he had just accepted super PAC money he’d be in the clear.
It’s all so stupid and hypocritical. It’s a “who watches the watchmen” scenario.
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u/Scalage89 4d ago
"working hard" to make it is little more than a myth in the US.
In the entire fucking world
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u/Outside-Emergency-27 4d ago
True. What I mean it is incredible pronounced in the US, it's literally a cultural phenomenon that a huge part of the pop-culture focuses around - "The American Dream"
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u/Scalage89 4d ago
We have the same attitude here in Europe. What you're describing is neoliberalism.
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u/Wtygrrr 4d ago
I searched for the things you said to search for. No peer-reviewed scientific studies came up. Just opinion pieces.
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u/Eden_Company 5d ago
It depends on what a better life means. Working hard also decreases your quality of life too.
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u/Linkario86 4d ago
Exactly. And it's come to a point where not working hard is a valid choice to live your life than working hard an possibly reap no reward
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u/Ill-Description3096 4d ago
Working hard also decreases your quality of life too
That really depends.
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u/mememan2995 4d ago
Absolutely. We work to live our lives. We do not live our lives to work.
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u/RMZ13 4d ago
Yeah. I’m quitting my job today with no real plan moving forward and I feel wonderful about it. It’s gotten suicidally depressing and the 8-10 hours of daily sitting is literally killing me. I have nerve issues I can feel from my hips to my toes as I’m writing this that I guarantee will go away with a week of normal movement but have been with me for months. Killing myself for half decent money is not something I’ll tolerate any longer.
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u/SecretRecipe 4d ago
Working hard never lead to a better life. Effort doesn't equate to value. Difficulty and rarity equate to value.
You can dig ditches 14 hours a day and work harder than anyone else on earth and you're still never going to be financially comfortable because it's low value work that pretty much anyone could do.
If you want a better life you need to improve your skills, network and presentation so that you can add more value with your labor and you're harder to replace.
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u/SANcapITY 4d ago
I wish I could teach the world this. Working hard doesn’t matter. Creating value does.
It’s just that 50 years ago the link between working physically hard and creating value was much closer than it is today with computers and modern tech.
Does an engineer working remotely pushing keys all day work ‘harder’ than a janitor? Of course not, but he can create a lot more value for end consumers.
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u/Flyingsheep___ 4d ago
There are insane coding geniuses that automate all their processes and sit at home playing Runescape who make insanely large amounts of money, because they do things literally nobody else can do.
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u/cfig99 4d ago
I didn’t really believe that until recently. That’s what my cousin’s husband does lol. He’s automated about 70% of his fully remote job and spends most his time on the clock playing video games or watching Netflix and he makes great money. He only does like 2-4 hours of actual work each week.
That has become one of my career goals.
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u/TimelyReturn5105 4d ago
If you want remote learn computer security and programming. If you want just an easy job find a city or county job that's in the office. You have to show up to work but you don't work the entire shift
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u/Wtygrrr 4d ago edited 4d ago
Why do you say “of course not?” Do you believe that “working hard” only applies to physical labor? That’s one kind of working hard, but the kind of working hard that leads to a “better life” is about the effort that someone puts in, and the stress that they put themselves through, not about how physical the job is
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u/Throwawhaey 4d ago
Somehow working hard came to mean only working hard at your current job, and not working hard at advancing your career. You can dig ditches for 14 hours a day all you want, but if you never try for a supervisor position or start your own ditch digging company, you'll still just be a ditch digger, and there's a necessary earnings cap on positions like that. But the hard worker who tries to be more *can* advance and gain recognition from their hard work.
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u/nemesis86th 4d ago
Pretty much this.
I used to be a patriotic ‘Merican. I used to think college = good work. I used to think elected people represented their constituency. I used to think loyalty bread loyalty.
I now know loyalty breads exploitation, politicians care about one thing (themselves), college/university/etc. provides nothing more useful (aside from the built-in threshold criteria of having to have a degree at many jobs) than if one were to “study” real world experience at the pace at the same stage in life.
The more I learn about how it all works, the more I realize the wealthy and powerful have made “I win” rules that they keep hidden from gen pop. And then when the poors don’t “figure it out,” then they get to look down on them. It’s a well-run machine and very effective at producing the desired outcome. 4-5 years ago, I would never have imagined having this mentality, and would have just written me off as some looney liberal who didn’t understand thing (If anything, I am apolitical at this point).
Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
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u/nicolatesla92 4d ago
Genuine question, why is being a liberal a bad thing ?
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u/nemesis86th 4d ago
Didn’t say it was. It was my mindset 4-5 years ago.
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u/Cold-Negotiation-539 4d ago
But if you now recognize that your former worldview was naive and incorrect, and the “liberal” critique of it was more accurate, then why have you decided to be apolitical, rather than embrace a politics that seeks to change the current corrupt system?
(I’m using “liberal” in your sense, ie, the way it is bandied about by reactionary conservatives, and not in the political philosophy sense.)
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u/lil_meme_-Machine 4d ago
If you view college as a box to check to get a job of course you won’t get the true return out of it. It’s about the networking and true learning, not just collecting a piece of paper after 4 years
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u/ChewieBearStare 4d ago
I agree that working hard will not get you where it would have gotten you 40 years ago. But do I think that's a reason to give up? No. I've seen a lot of posts on here from fatalists who refuse to see that there's a very large gap between "starving and homeless" and filthy rich. They think that if they can't get everything they want, there's no point in doing anything. I'd argue it's better to at least have food in your belly and a place to live. (And I've been homeless, just in case anyone wants to tell me I've lived a life of privilege and don't know what it's like; there's a wide gulf between homeless and "only earn enough to pay for the basics.")
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u/SiegeGoatCommander 4d ago
I refuse to accept the ceiling imposed, sorry boss.
e: also my version of 'getting everything i want' is 'stop fucking the world with CO2' and 'stop actively participating in genocide'
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u/galaxyapp 5d ago
People tell themselves all sorts of thing to justify not trying.
I always wonder who they think are buying all those 70k trucks or expensive houses. All trust fund babies or some indefinite debt pyramid that they can sustain for 40 years?
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u/Sure-Criticism8958 5d ago
I think the operative word here is ‘better’ I fully believe that if I work very hard I can maintain my lifestyle etc. Do I think I can work hard enough to actually make my life BETTER? Eh I’m a lot less sure of that frankly.
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u/El_mochilero 4d ago
I’ve worked my whole life, just like my parents.
I’ve attained higher education than my parents did.
I’ve achieved higher level roles in my career so far than my parents ever did. I’m making relatively more money than they ever did.
My potential for owning property and retiring like they did is significantly lower than my parents.
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u/b-sharp-minor 4d ago
This is a picture of something that supposedly came out almost 4 1/2 years ago. Where was it published? Who is James Purtill? Where is the actual article? What survey? Why should I react one way or the other to a random printed sentence with an accompanying stock photo of people where no one is smiling?
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u/AlephVavTav 4d ago
Due to offshoring America's industrial base the prospect of working class middle-class diminished significantly. It really does come down to that.
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u/Confident_Chicken_51 4d ago
Too many people being treated like a number. They can work incredibly hard and gain nothing. It’s a sickness in our society that will bring things down.
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u/HappyEngineering4190 4d ago
The fact that people actually believe this makes working hard= better life. If everyone worked hard, you wouldnt be able to differentiate yourself.
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u/TacosNtulips 4d ago
Disagree, it’s disgusting to see the entitlement people have especially when they assume that someone has to give you money or they’re doing something illegal when there’s people that leave everything behind, families, customs, language to be here and work hard and do good only to see people who have access to information yet they dive into TikTok or think earth is flat, X launches a rocket into space and alien spotting posts soar.
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u/Arachles 4d ago
Entitlement? We are the most productive generations in history yet I see a big percentage of the population struggle while working long hours. Those entitled workers who want to afford a home, free time and basic necessities
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u/SeanHaz 4d ago
Well, I think they're wrong. Whenever I've worked hard my life has improved.
Spend time tidying your house or room and you get the rewards for months or years every time you search for something.
Work a few more hours for a few weeks or months and get a financial cushion when something comes up.
If you have sufficient capital to do most of the things you'd like to do, then maybe working doesn't add any more value to your life, I don't think most people are in that situation.
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u/bos25redsox 4d ago
A lot of the people in here are just complaining about “the rich”. I grew up lower middle class and my parents are arguably at the bottom of the scale in terms of being financially smart. I had literally zero knowledge given on finances. What I did have is a strong work ethic.
I joined the military and did 6 years. “Worked hard”and earned some awards and accolades. I learned some skills I took on the outside. Got a job at a utility company with my military background and skills. Been “working hard” doing the grunt work for a few years hitting 6 figures. Job shadowing for a position that’ll increase my pay by 50% in which they’ve essentially told me the job is mine to lose in the next month when the position opens. If I don’t get it this time around, the next position is opening in 3 months time.
I’ve made sacrifices to save more and invest more. I’ve made sacrifices to pay off debt. I’ve learned about the FIRE movement and am now doing the whole Mega Backdoor Roth ordeal. I feel so damn good knowing I “worked hard” and it’s paying off.
No college degree although I wasted 1 year of my life in college because I kept getting told I have to. I have noticed I keep getting told “I’m lucky” but it’s funny how my “luck” increases the more I work hard lol. 90% of the people that I know who always bitch and complain about “the rich” are in their 30s working at Starbucks type businesses and REFUSE to do anything that may require them to get out of their comfort zone. My cousin is one of them. Bitches about rich people and how everything should be free but works at a bagel cafe and when I’ve tried getting him on at the utility company he says he’s too good to work in the heat and do some physical labor type jobs (he plays video games 10 hours a day and calls himself a “socialist philosopher”) lmao there is NO helping these people.
Nobody wants to do the dirty work nowadays and work their way up.
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u/r2k398 4d ago
It’s never been about just working hard. A lot of people work hard but don’t have a job that is in demand and their skills aren’t scarce.
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u/MikesRockafellersubs 4d ago
Yeah, it's about getting lucky and having personal connections too.
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u/Linkario86 4d ago
Because it doesn't. It literally just depends how old you are and how much years experience you got. Job Hopping gets you further financially than being loyal.
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u/assesonfire7369 4d ago
Most people don't have the stomach for it, never have. Only difference is that there are more places to complain these days whereas back in the day it'd be at the bar.
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u/TheJuiceBoxS 4d ago
Will, can, may, might, likely too.
I don't know, it's one of those. Working hard will absolutely increase your chances of a better life.
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u/0000110011 4d ago
You can work hard and get very unlucky and not succeed. But not working hard guarantees you won't succeed. Unfortunately, a lot of people choose to be lazy and unsuccessful instead of busting their ass to improve their life.
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u/ThrustTrust 4d ago
It will lead to a better life than not working hard. But it will not mean nice stuff and early retirement is a given.
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u/Admirable-Snow4144 4d ago
It has never been merely working hard that led to a better life. You can work hard towards a meaningless goal and you are no further than where you started. A better life is built of planning, saving, investing well.
The perspective that one person having the same job will somehow be enough for a huge family for decades was merely the result of a confluence of circumstances in the US. Everywhere else the good life is dependent upon having enough capital. This has always been the case: nobles who owned land were wealthy, and people who worked for them were generally not that well off, no matter how hard they worked. Right now there’s an unprecedented chance in history to own assets and prosper. Yet people obsess on one moment in history where the market situation allowed one household to be middle class if the husband had a job.
People also fail to realize that being a worker is a position where your well being depends on one company you happen to work for, which is a huge risk. This, coupled with the habit of consuming more that what you earn led to our current situation today.
And in all actuality if all your boomer parents achieved is a house for the family and a few cars they failed you. They should have handed you assets that provide a safety net in case anything happens. They shouldn’t have consumed so much, and instead should have saved up the money. Your mom should have been working instead of taking care of you even through school. Then buying a house would have been easy. In fact it’s weird most families didn’t buy houses for their children since it was so cheap relative to their salary. Even in 1985 you could buy a home for 3,5 times the median salary. They could have rented it out until the kid got big enough, which would have provided additional income.
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u/SpicyMango92 4d ago
I used to balk at my dad for wanting to leave his high paying job, regardless if he was miserable. I always thought, why are you upset you can buy almost anything you want? Now that I’m in a similar position, it makes sense, making money won’t necessarily make someone happy! You only have so much time, gotta make the most of it!
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u/dis-interested 4d ago
It depends what you mean by working hard. Dedicating yourself to the right things is the key to a good life. It just might not be dedicating all your time and energy to the job you currently have.
Giving up on trying to improve your life at all is obviously a terrible idea.
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u/forgotmyusername93 4d ago
Yes I disagree. Job hop, educate yourself, live within your means and save. It’s ok to live in the hood for a little while
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u/Uranazzole 4d ago
People are impatient and want everything now. If you max out the 401k and save another 20% extra after tax money too then you’ll have no problem. This means you live on only the remaining amount.
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u/Jeff77042 4d ago
I disagree. Both of my sons, ages 35 and 37, have applied the traditional American formula for creating a good life, which includes hard work, and it’s working for them, and no, we don’t come from money. It certainly helps that we’re in Houston, a jobs snd wealth creating dynamo-on-steroids if ever there was one.
If working hard, practicing thrift and deferred gratification, obeying the law, not engaging in substance abuse, not having children out-of-wedlock, getting the education/training that’s the right fit for you and your circumstances, which may not include a four year degree, doesn’t result in a better life than your parents had, it can still result in a good life.
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u/depressed-scorpion 3d ago
I agree. America is about making money at any cost, and the people are expendable. Look at our health care system. I have to ration medication because of costs, I put off procedures because of the co-pays. I have no desire to put my wife in the poor house to make some CEO more bonus money. I'd rather die first.
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u/MTBKFVBT 1d ago
It won’t, back in the 50’s-70’s you could be a janitor and support your of family of 4-5. Pay a mortgage, put your kids through college and retire but decent pay and pensions were too much for the upper management. Now they fly private jets, have 10 bedroom mansion on the hills and are generally terrible people. That ship has sailed as the increased profits have trickled up just as intended.
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u/RoutineAd7381 5d ago
I agree mostly with this title. Dedicating yourself to one company in the hopes of doing 40 years and leaving with a full pension is a unicorn.
However, if you figure out 'the game' and how to exploit the rules, it's possible to play hopscotch/chess, what have you, and get to a position where you're paid well and can have a good life
Pro tip for those just getting started, certifications certifications certifications! Collect them bitches like Pokémon, even if it seems dumb or you're not sure when you'll need it. Even if it lapses, it's always easier to show you did it once and renew if a company needs it.