“Medicare for All” would save the U.S $5.1 Trillion over 10 years

[u/The-Lucky-Investor]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/11/30/easy-pay-something-costs-less-new-study-shows-medicare-all-would-save-us-51-trillion

[u/IbegTWOdiffer]

"Pay less for healthcare"... Come on, can we not understand that when you pay $25,000 more in taxes and save $1,200 on Healthcare (numbers for illustration only), you aren't spending less?

I don't know why this is so hard for people to understand.

Canadians are not Americans. We are different, I am not sure why it is such a mic drop for some people to point out that completely different demographics will have different life expectancies.

Wait times are absolutely not comparable, they just aren't. Urgent care is similar, everything that requires diagnostic imagining is a fucking joke in Canada.

[u/GWsublime → u/IbegTWOdiffer]

Because we (canada) notably do pay less for healthcare? https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/#GDP%20per%20capita%20and%20health%20consumption%20spending%20per%20capita,%202022%20(U.S.%20dollars,%20PPP%20adjusted)

Wait times are very comparable unless you only look at studies conducted by right-wing think tanks https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States#:~:text=Studies%20by%20the%20Commonwealth%20Fund,to%20see%20a%20specialist%2C%20vs.

Which, of course, result in better life expectancy, lower rates of infant mortality, similar health outcomes across procedures and better physical quality of life.

[u/IbegTWOdiffer → u/GWsublime]

Ok…. If you pay $25k including healthcare and I pay $15k including healthcare, does it matter how that breaks down? Or does it just matter that I pay less? This is the most frustrating conversation… your eggs cost $5 and your milk cost $7. My eggs cost $6 and my milk costs $3. You are happy that you are paying less for eggs… 

[u/GWsublime → u/IbegTWOdiffer]

But that's not what happens? Like, yes, I pay more in tax but still less than the sum of tax and healthcare you pay? For which, I also get more than just healthcare.

[u/IbegTWOdiffer → u/GWsublime]

The hell you do. I pay way less than I would (did) in Canada. It isn’t even close. I also get more than just healthcare…

[u/GWsublime → u/IbegTWOdiffer]

Alright, pick a tax bracket and let's do the math

[u/IbegTWOdiffer → u/GWsublime]

Sure, let's pick the median household income in the US. Married, two kids.

[u/GWsublime → u/IbegTWOdiffer]

Gotcha so that's 50k per parent CAD. At that amount you're looking at 15% federal and 5.15 in the province of Ontario in income tax, resulting in a total of 10k in tax liability. If the two kids are under the age of 7 and are in daycare that's reduced 3 000 from the provincal childcare credit and an additional federal 16 000 for a total reduction in taxable income of 19 000 which brings you down to 6.2k in tax owed.

It's surprisingly hard to get a fix on the median health insurance cost in the US but it runs between 23968 (16k CAD per parent) and 17,244 (11500 cad per parent)for a family of four. Which means health insurance, alone, forget taxes, is costing more per adult than your Canadian tax bill even before childcare credits and any other deducations.

Sources:

https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/resources/individual-and-family/average-family-health-insurance-cost#:~:text=BY%20Carly%20Plemons%20Published%20on%20June%2004%2C%202024&text=In%202023%2C%20the%20average%20cost,was%20approximately%20%2423%2C968%20per%20year.

https://hsaforamerica.com/blog/how-much-is-health-insurance-for-a-family-of-4/

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2023/demo/p60-279.html#:~:text=Real%20median%20household%20income%20was,and%20Table%20A%2D1).