r/FluentInFinance • u/The-Lucky-Investor • 11d ago

“Medicare for All” would save the U.S $5.1 Trillion over 10 years Discussion/ Debate

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/11/30/easy-pay-something-costs-less-new-study-shows-medicare-all-would-save-us-51-trillion
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u/Iamthespiderbro 11d ago

Ah yes, if there’s one thing we can say about government services, it’s that they drive costs down 😅

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u/GeekShallInherit 11d ago

Our peers with universal healthcare are spending literally half a million dollars less (PPP) per person for a lifetime of healthcare while achieving better outcomes. And government plans in the US are, in fact, already more efficient.

Key Findings

  • Private insurers paid nearly double Medicare rates for all hospital services (199% of Medicare rates, on average), ranging from 141% to 259% of Medicare rates across the reviewed studies.

  • The difference between private and Medicare rates was greater for outpatient than inpatient hospital services, which averaged 264% and 189% of Medicare rates overall, respectively.

  • For physician services, private insurance paid 143% of Medicare rates, on average, ranging from 118% to 179% of Medicare rates across studies.

https://www.kff.org/medicare/issue-brief/how-much-more-than-medicare-do-private-insurers-pay-a-review-of-the-literature/

Medicare has both lower overhead and has experienced smaller cost increases in recent decades, a trend predicted to continue over the next 30 years.

https://pnhp.org/news/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/

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u/ConsequenceDesperate 11d ago

That’s because private health insurance make up the costs for Medicare.

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u/GeekShallInherit 11d ago

And it's more efficient. There's a reason our peers with universal healthcare are achieving better outcomes while spending half a million dollars less per person for a lifetime of healthcare. There's a reason all the research shows we'd save money while getting care to more people who need it with UHC.

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u/ConsequenceDesperate 11d ago

The system still depends on private healthcare. I mean most hospitals are privately owned. I highly doubt that iMedicare would keep the same rates since hospitals are going bankrupt if Universal Coverage is achieved.

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u/GeekShallInherit 11d ago

I highly doubt that iMedicare would keep the same rates

Weird how that's already factored in to calculations.

https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2020-12/56811-Single-Payer.pdf

It's almost like people that dedicate their lives to researching topics aren't fucking idiots.

https://journals.plos.org/plosmedicine/article?id=10.1371/journal.pmed.1003013#sec018

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u/ConsequenceDesperate 11d ago

https://preview.redd.it/eku2dzg3uz7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab0dcbb8df04c29f67554ddaffed1d593dd4b2cd

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u/GeekShallInherit 11d ago

Jesus Fucking Christ you're a time wasting fuckwit. Best of luck someday not making the world a dumber place. Personally I have better things to do with my life that argue with intentionally ignorant chucklefucks.

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u/ConsequenceDesperate 11d ago

That’s one estimate and the other is a literature review and the conclusion is still not clear

https://preview.redd.it/gdn8iznwtz7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3622e3313cbd2ca6566902c8d4efd698f5ec426c

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u/GeekShallInherit 11d ago

That’s one estimate

The second link is a meta-analysis of all the top peer reviewed research on the topic. Thanks for confirming you're an intentionally ignorant, time wasting muppet that argues without even reading the links.

<image>

ZOMG! As much as $36 trillion dollars over a decade? You realize healthcare spending from 2022 to 2031 under current law is expected to be $57 trillion, right?

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u/bellj1210 11d ago

Bankrupt and gone are 2 different things.

If a company goes bankrupt what they owned does not fall into some weird cliff where nothing will ever return. In a Chapter 7 they are generally sold to the highest bidder. Things that were worthless to start with will not have a bidder. In this case, the US government can always step in and purchase the property and facilities that make up the hospitals in the chapter 7 bankrutpcy.

No need to nationalize them, they get just compensation after their industry no longer functions- and that is very very little in a bankrutpcy.

If there was a will to get there- the nationalization could be dirt cheap. Step 1 is regular regulatory power stuff- basically make it so there is no way to extract a ton of profit from sick people. Biden is already doing some of the lower hanging fruit stuff on that front.... Eventually it stops being profitable, and the bankrutpcies start- and the government nationalizes through that process when no one with any sense wants to step in..... it would be fun to watch developers think they are buying the property for pennies and then be handed the same amount back with emminent domain.

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u/bellj1210 11d ago

yes- the postal service is so much more expensive than UPS.

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u/Iamthespiderbro 11d ago

Oh, you mean the agency that ran at a $6.5B dollar deficit in 2023? That postal service?

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u/teluetetime 11d ago

Their operations are profitable.

It’s just that Republicans passed a law requiring them to pay all of their employees’ fairly generous pension obligations in advance, rather than counting on long term investment gains like every single other institution does retirement plans. This was done to make them appear like they’re losing tons of money to justify selling the service off to private corporations which will just not offer any retirement benefits at all.

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u/Iamthespiderbro 10d ago

I’m not sure why you’re stating that. The numbers are very easy to look up and it’s just objectively not true that they run a profit. They lost ~$6B last year and another ~$2B in Q1 this year.

Regardless, you made my exact point. The government makes stupid decisions that would never be made in the private sector.

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u/Minute-Tale9416 9d ago

... You realize the postal service was never meant to turn a profit right? You realize the government isn't a private business and isn't meant to be for profit? That's why private and public sectors are specified as private and public... I guess you think roads and public schools should also be profitable?

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u/Iamthespiderbro 9d ago

Yes, I absolutely understand that. Hence my original point. Government is inefficient as hell, so if you want to make an argument for government healthcare it shouldn’t be that it’s going to lower cost because that literally never happens.

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u/Minute-Tale9416 9d ago

Except every other major country with universal healthcare spends less and gets better results, but go ahead and ignore facts because "mUh ProFIt MarGIn"

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u/AverageAmericanGuy 10d ago

USPS isn't designed to be profitable, it's a service. And in 2023 the US spent 4.16 TRILLION dollars in government spending. So that deficit makes up 0.00156% of that money spent. That's chump change for us.

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u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

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u/Iamthespiderbro 10d ago

I have excellent and silly cheap private coverage.

I have the same opinion as I do all government programs. As long as I can opt out, I’m all for it. If someone wants to pay taxes because they believe the government can deliver better than the private market then have at it. Just don’t require me to pay.

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u/ClassicTrout 11d ago

It’s not your 6.5B

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u/Iamthespiderbro 11d ago

Oh the treasury doesn’t pay the deficit with my tax dollars or by inflating the currency I own, which they force my employer to issue payment in?

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u/DarkExecutor 11d ago

Just because you don't see a sticker price on a stamp, doesn't mean it doesn't get taken out of your taxes.

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u/Joshfumanchu 11d ago

this is top-tier dum dum talk.