r/FluentInFinance • u/ProgressiveSpark • 27d ago

Wealth inequality in America: beliefs, perceptions and reality. Discussion/ Debate

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What do Americans think good wealth distribution looks like; what they think actual American wealth inequality looks like; and what American wealth inequality actually is like.

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u/samanthano 27d ago

D: We want to make sure everyone's basic needs are met.

R: We want to annihilate anyone who isn't hetero, white, and Christian.

Centrists: I literally cannot tell the difference between you two.

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u/LittleLandscape4091 27d ago

Then there's Biden enacting harsher asylum immigration policies than even Trump.

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u/Kromgar 26d ago

Leftists lost on immigration most amwricans hate the immigrants picking tgeir food

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u/LittleLandscape4091 26d ago

This is false - just the racists do.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/Next-Wrongdoer-3479 27d ago

Unfortunately, democrats being absolutely insufferable makes a lot of people consider the other option.

Which is just plain idiotic, lol. "You guys are clearly the better of the two options but you're also annoying, therefore I've come to the conclusion the best thing to do is shoot myself in the foot to teach you a lesson." That's the basic logic those people are using.

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u/monkwren 27d ago

Which is just plain idiotic, lol.

It is, but ignoring the idiocy of human nature in your messaging is also idiocy, albeit of a different kind.

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u/major_mejor_mayor 26d ago

So what would you have Dems do?

Be direct and assertive and you're being rude and condescending, but explain things fully and you're patronizing and elitist.

Respond to deplorable Republicans and you're indecent, ignore them and you're weak.

Truth is, most of the people whose thoughts you are trying to rationalize are inherently irrational, ego driven people. They (like most of us) make decisions with their intuition and come up with reasons later.

They don't like Democrats because their egos are threatened, the errors in their preconceived notions are made aware to them, and they react defensively.

That's mostly it, fundamentally small, confused, and weak people reacting emotionally to warped perceptions of reality.

It's genuinely tragic when you think about it.

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u/monkwren 26d ago

I mean, you just have to not be arrogant and condescending, that's all.not exactly a high bar to clear.

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u/Kennys-Chicken 26d ago

Yeah….the guy down the street from me with his “fuck your feelings snowflake” and MAGA bumper stickers is totally the neighborhoods favorite guy. He’s not insufferable at all /s

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u/37au47 26d ago

I mean that's literally what Bernie or bust was, and now we lost abortion rights.

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u/Next-Wrongdoer-3479 26d ago

What...? Tell me you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about without telling me /u/37au47. Try again, bud

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u/37au47 26d ago

Bernie or bust was when people decided to either vote for Bernie or no one. So many people didn't vote for Hilary and Trump won, giving him supreme Court nominations you dumb ass.

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u/Equivalent_Missions 26d ago

While I agree, the Democratic Party was divided. I wonder if their votes would have mattered in the electoral college. Hilary won the popular vote but lost anyway.

I am hoping Trump has divided the Republican Party. But his effects on the Supreme Court will take decades to correct. RLG should have left when Obama was in, what a folly.

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u/Next-Wrongdoer-3479 26d ago edited 26d ago

Hillary won the popular vote....You may want to research the electoral college and how little your individual vote means/used to mean (the laws have since changed regarding the electoral college and how they can vote) before you spout off anymore, lol.

Finally, based off my original comment you're saying both Hillary and Trump would've been better off for this country than Bernie would've been, which is just silly and completely undermines the entire "gotcha" you're trying to get me with.

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u/37au47 26d ago

Ya you may want to research what bust means. Bernie for their candidate or bust, the word bust meaning no one else and they are excluding themselves from voting. This is why the person above said liberals are insufferable. People like you make it harder to vote Democrat, you really make people want to cut off ones nose in spite of their face. It's right there in the wiki as well https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders_2016_presidential_campaign#Bernie_or_Bust ""Bernie or Bust" refers to the intention of some of Sanders's supporters not to vote for Hillary Clinton if she won the Democratic nomination, but rather to write in Sanders, vote for a third-party candidate such as Jill Stein or Gary Johnson, or not to vote at all.[201]"

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u/Next-Wrongdoer-3479 26d ago

Lol, you and the other user still have the whole thing backward. The Bernie or bust was people not wanting to vote for anyone but Bernie because he was the best candidate. What I was talking about are people who know one candidate is better but refuse to vote foe them for one reason or another. You and the other user's example is literally the exact opposite of what's being discussed. Funny how the people who argue in favor of conservatives are never all that bright.

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u/37au47 26d ago

Ya never that bright, I'm sure you are America's next billionaire. Good luck making ends meet, at this point I'm financially insulated enough to vote against my own wants if it means your ass is worse off.

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u/37au47 26d ago edited 26d ago

Ya the electoral college that's been around since the beginning, why don't you look at the map, Hilary lost Wisconsin by 23k votes, Gary Johnson 106k votes Jill Stein 31k votes, Hilary loses Michigan by 11k votes Gary Johnson 172k votes Jill Stein 51k votes, loses Pennsylvania by 44k votes Gary Johnson 146k votes Jill Stein 49.9k votes, loses Florida by 113k votes Gary Johnson 207k votes Jill Stein 64k votes. That's 75 electoral votes. If those states went blue instead the outcome is trump 231 vs Hilary 307. Even without Florida that's Trump 260 vs Hilary 278.

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u/Particular_Mouse_600 27d ago

Democrats can’t seem to ever figure out how to govern anything. Can’t blame anybody for being skeptical about them. They’re not perfect, they actually do some things worse than republicans

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u/proletariat_sips_tea 26d ago

Right. That's politics. It's not perfect. It fucks up. But it's better than kings and the ai overlord isn't ready yet. Reality is, it'd what we got and it works.

Amd you said some. One is obviously better more often than the other. You should vote Democrat. We can make it better once the boomers die off and stop voting in their classmates.

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u/Particular_Mouse_600 26d ago

Right but there’s a middle ground which is the independents, Barry sanders and Kennedy were and are much better candidates than Biden or Trump. They just don’t have an entire party to back them so they usually lose sadly.

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u/proletariat_sips_tea 26d ago

Yep and it fucking sucks. Start interactive democracy in your area. That's the future. Fir now we gotta fight for our future.

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u/major_mejor_mayor 26d ago

Tf?

The only times in recent memory that we have had control over our debt/ deficit were all under Democrats, and almost every Republican in the last 60 years has drastically increased spending without having any genuine benefit

What government failures by Democrats are you using to set up this wild alternate reality where Republicans are better at governance than Democrats?

Because what you just said is pretty objectively untrue from all of the data and factual information I am aware of.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/Downtown_Feedback665 27d ago

Fellow centrist here, believe this video perfectly explains the chasm that is our two sided political system. Where people on both sides think they’re right and compassionate.

Most people can tell that democrats are the best on most if not all social issues, think we need more taxes to pay for more social services.

Republicans don’t like paying taxes because many poor folks that are on the bottom scale of that video feel squeezed for every dime they pay in tax. Rich republicans obviously don’t want to give up their wealth to the state.

Republicans want tax cuts to cut revenues and force capitol hill to spend smarter to fix root cause issues, democrats want to throw money at every problem thinking that that will actually fix things.

Meanwhile we spend $0.60 per dollar of federal taxes to fund the military industrial complex to go do things like fund genocide.

As a centrist, I wish we would zero base budget every dime on the federal level. Figure out a way towards fiscal responsibility as a nation, and figure out a way forward that works for all Americans like the ideal chart said.

With all the good stuff like civil rights for all and bodily autonomy and the right to choose along the way, and no war and genocide would be nice. However, neither candidate is doing anything remotely close to what I would like to see happen.

I’m in the middle poor section, and I wish we would all start hating each other less and hate that one rich ass hole more.

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u/Cory123125 27d ago

Dude, what? Literally all of the republican messaging is about hurting people.

Occasionally someone will pay lip service to the opposite, but its rah rah these or those people are bad.

I mean just look at ... everything trump says, and its the trump party now, unmistakably.

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u/Downtown_Feedback665 27d ago

Idk about you, but I’ve met a lot of never Trump republicans. And if you think Biden is a good candidate, you’re out of your mind. We are fully funding two wars and one is a genocide of children all while the wealth gap is greater than ever and everyone is getting squeezed.

My vote is probably going to RFK and I don’t even like the dude. But he may set a precedent of an “independent” making it on the ballot in all 50 states and maybe next time through, centrist people can organize and maybe materially do something about the duopoly that is razing this country.

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u/major_mejor_mayor 26d ago

If they claim to be a "never Trump Republican" but vote for Republicans then they are liars and are simply deluding themselves.

Trump/ MAGA is the Republican party now, there is no separating the two as it currently stands.

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u/Downtown_Feedback665 26d ago

You’re buying into a narrative that isn’t actually real. Go outside and talk to people. I work in tech and the vast majority of republicans at my company voted for Hillary and Biden. They are still republicans and hate most if not all democratic policies. But always hated Trump.

Stop listening to left wing media telling you how right wing people feel, and maybe go talk to some right wing people.

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u/[deleted] 26d ago

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u/Downtown_Feedback665 26d ago edited 26d ago

I said I didn’t like him and I’m afraid you may be the one not reading enough.

Biden will make it harder for asylum seekers after creating refugees in two foreign lands

95 billion to Ukraine and Israel

1 in 4 Americans see both Trump and Biden unfavorably.

Gotten from the DHS, NPR, and Pew. Not right wing news.

Democrats somehow think that a documents trial that’s upgraded to a felony is the card they have to play. When in reality, the political calculus of the trial was severely flawed for democrats regardless of the outcome. If he wins, it’s a witch-hunt. If he loses, it’s lawfare. All while getting more free press just like 2016.

Meanwhile the judge presiding over the case donated money to democratic political campaigns, and his daughter works in the Biden administration. All while Trump has gotten these slaps on the wrist LONG BEFORE he was president many times over. If we were going to try him for something, it should’ve been Jan 6, but we didn’t. All this did was if you already hated Trump, you got more evidence to feed that belief. For everyone else undecided, apolitical, independent, it garnered support for him.

And if you think democrats are actually ameliorating the wealth gap I genuinely feel sorry for you. You’ve bought into the narrative of one head of a two-headed snake. Acting as if democrats and republicans are vastly different when really they will continue to hoard power and have you fight about absolute nonsense in order to distract you from the fact that if we cut all of the defense budget today, we wouldn’t meet our interest obligations on the national debt.

WE WOULDNT MEET THE INTEREST ON NATIONAL DEBT IF WE CUT ALL OF DEFENSE SPENDING. Do you understand this situation? The fact that this is a dying empire and people want to talk about abortion rights or crypto or trans rights or the southern border, and nobody wants to talk about the fact that we’ll either have to be taxed to 100% for every person, or cut social security, Medicare, and defense spending drastically.

You’re under a rock and can’t read the temperature of the room. I never wanted Trump to be president but people like you will end up pushing him back into office. Good luck alienating undecided voters.

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u/MainWooden1722 27d ago

"I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection" MLK Jr.

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u/ElectricalRush1878 27d ago

I'll toss you an upvote.

As an adult, I've seen for long enough 'Vote Dem today, we'll take care of you as soon as we can' while Republicans have been accomplishing change for the worse with ease the last few years.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/major_mejor_mayor 26d ago

It's relevant because you "centrists" are exactly the kind of folk who that quote is criticizing.

And for pretty much exactly the sentiment you are expressing here

Do-nothing cowards standing by and making excuses for the powers that be because any amount of disruption is too much for your delicate constitutions and weak moral fiber.

Actually, it would be better if you would do nothing and step aside, but instead when push comes to shove you folk always side with the status quo and grovel at the feet of the oppressors, begging that they don't disrupt your peaceful, ignorant slumber.

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u/Oh_IHateIt 27d ago

Lol, are people downvoting *MLK*? AHAHAHA. Fucking morons, unable to take a single direct criticism from the biggest name in civil rights himself. Thanks u/MainWooden1722 , take an upvote for unmasking these freaks.

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u/shinydee 27d ago

"The Left got a little too PC so I changed all of my opinions about the economy, social issues, systemic racism, health care, and history."

Every time lmao

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/shinydee 27d ago

Who controls the house and senate again?

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/shinydee 27d ago

Lmao ah yes the galaxy brained centrist who doesn’t understand how bills get passed. Really proving the point how regarded you guys are.

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u/verminal-tenacity 19h ago

as a general rule you're leaning into the cliches as hard as possible huh?

taken as a whole, its not super convincing.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

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u/shinydee 27d ago

Other presidents haven’t had to deal with the maga republican majority that have come out and said they will not let anything dems want to pass. Which despite that, the Biden admin has managed to actually do quite a bit. So yeah keep admitting to everyone you don’t know anything lmao because it is hilarious.

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u/dead_jester 26d ago

The truth is Centrists are just embarrassed right wingers who don’t want to publicly admit they agree with the shitty people

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u/Few_Moose_1530 26d ago

Hi, "centrist" here. You're a moron.

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u/EA-Corrupt 26d ago

I hate republicans but you are deluded by a two party state if you genuinely think democrats even care about basic needs.

You are the perfect voter for a broken democracy

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u/Kennys-Chicken 26d ago

American is lacking a true progressive party. We currently have a centrist party (DNC) and an extremist right wing party (GOP).

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u/rdfiasco 26d ago

You actually think your political opponents are cartoon villains. You might be radicalized.

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u/unfreeradical 27d ago

The Democratic Party is not left, nor even anywhere left of center.

Since the Clinton Administration, it has been entrenched into the prevailing right-wing neoliberal order. It is at best right of center, while espousing, and also doing virtually nothing to achieve, some progressive ideals of social justice.

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u/CaptainCastaleos 26d ago

D: We think Cuba should be annihilated by space lasers and we should all get brain implants that make us crave cheese.

R: I think we should worship the Ford Pinto and walk on our hands exclusively.

Centrists: I am someone on the internet who is physically incapable of seeing past my own inherent bias' and opinions, so I make nonsense arguments against people I don't like and am too dull to even attempt to understand. Nobody is people to me, they are just simple objects for me to blindly hate or praise without any critical thought, as critical thinking scares me.

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u/TwatMailDotCom 27d ago

Except that’s not what’s happening and you’re being intellectually dishonest about it.

This is a textbook example of a straw man.

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u/Next-Wrongdoer-3479 27d ago

You're right. That isn't happening. Any "centrists" who say that aren't actually centrists and just Republicans pretending to be centrists for one reason or another.

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u/TwatMailDotCom 27d ago edited 27d ago

False. You can be a left or right leaning centrist.

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u/Next-Wrongdoer-3479 27d ago

Practice that reading comprehension, bud

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u/TwatMailDotCom 27d ago

What a novel insult.

Continue to engage in tribalism and oversimplification of issues. See if that same behavior results in any change.

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u/major_mejor_mayor 26d ago

If you had any reading comprehension you would be laughing so hard at yourself

Y'all are hilarious, though you don't mean to be 😂

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u/Next-Wrongdoer-3479 27d ago

Sigh, my point had nothing to do with picking sides. I said practice that reading comprehension because I never said or implied there couldn't be left leaning centrists. Try again, TwatMailDotCom.

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u/TwatMailDotCom 26d ago

Your comment makes no sense in that context.

Instead of “practice your reading comprehension”, try “this is what I am trying to say.”

You are responsible for your intent being understood, not the person reading your reply. If you intend to say “a” and I interpret it as “b”, the onus is on you to articulate what you meant if you truly want to have a dialogue.

“Work on your reading comprehension” really means “I’m too lazy to explain my point”.

Just say what you mean.

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u/Next-Wrongdoer-3479 26d ago

A full day to come up with this? Like...why even bother, lol. No, I'm not too lazy to explain my point; you're too stupid to comprehend, big difference. And, INB4, yes, I am just insulting you at this point, I've already explained myself well enough for anyone with some semblance of a clue, no point wasting more time for someone who is never going to understand regardless of how much they're spoon fed.

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u/[deleted] 27d ago

[deleted]

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u/thestonedonkey 27d ago

Seen some stupid things posted on Reddit today - you win.

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u/BullishBengal 27d ago

The truth is often stupid to ignorant people.

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u/thestonedonkey 27d ago

The irony.

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u/samanthano 27d ago

Oh, sweetie. Bless your heart.

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u/Omnom_Omnath 27d ago

lol People keep saying that line about the blue team but I’ve not observed that in practice ever.

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u/Mr---Wonderful 27d ago

If they’re not practicing that, then why is the Republican base so concerned with the Democrats DEI and equality initiatives? Why fight against something that isn’t practiced?

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u/Willis_3401_3401 27d ago

That’s like asking why the bad cop is so concerned with combatting the good cop.

The democrats are the carrot and the republicans are the stick, together they ensure nothing changes and that the majority is satisfied with that outcome.

Twice in my lifetime the democrats have controlled the White House and both houses of congress. Isn’t it crazy how they’re always exactly one or two votes shy of being able to pass major legislation? 🤔

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u/Omnom_Omnath 27d ago

DEI has absolutely nothing to do with making sure everyone’s basic needs are met. It’s virtue signaling by saying white people and men are less qualified for jobs. Literally discrimination on the basis of protected classes.

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u/NotPortlyPenguin 27d ago

Equality is discrimination? Interesting take. Typical though…someone in a privileged class sees equality as discrimination.

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u/InterdisciplinaryDol 27d ago

Paraphrasing some smart guy.

“When you’re used to privilege, equality feels like oppression”

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u/winnipesaukee_bukake 27d ago

I'm not a Rep, but how is DEI supposed to be real equality? Real equality would be giving underserved people a foundation to achieve and succeed, like overhauling our K-12 public education system across all communities, lower tuition for higher education, and enforcing anti-discriminatory hiring. In other words, an equal chance at bat.

Just arbitrarily managing the amount of people represented in an institution by the way they look with DEI does not do that. It's just the easier option for policy makers to check a box, because the first option takes real commitment and the DEI option is a bandaid.

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u/Omnom_Omnath 27d ago

DEI isn’t a push for equality.

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u/Mr---Wonderful 27d ago

Yes, it appears advocating for others is discriminatory, because they did not advocate for all. It also displays weakness and leaves the anti-DEI crowd feeling “othered”—they want their DEI as well. Oddly enough, it’s the same sentiment shared by minority groups and the key driver behind DEI. 

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u/BullishBengal 27d ago

Equality of outcome is literally discrimination. You aren’t special because you’re white or black. You aren’t special because you’re straight or gay. The only privileged classes in this country are the elite and the wealthy.

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u/itsjust_khris 27d ago

Thing is DEI also protects white people’s jobs in areas where they aren’t the majority. It’s not a one way street.

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u/Omnom_Omnath 27d ago

Got any sources of a time it’s been used that way? That is far far far from the norm.

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u/itsjust_khris 27d ago edited 27d ago

It’s currently far from the norm because white people are the majority of Americans. From a Canadian perspective I’ve seen DEI used to prevent certain businesses (usually unskilled workers) from hiring solely Indians. Of course enforcement is currently lacking. I use this example because in the US I can think of very few areas white people aren’t the majority. Much easier to see it in action in Canada.

In theory, as demographics in the US change more white people will reap the benefits of DEI, as they move from a majority to a minority.

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u/Omnom_Omnath 27d ago

DEI is a terrible idea no matter what. Better to focus on hiring the best qualified candidates rather than on the color their skin happens to be. DEI is literally codified racial discrimination.

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u/unfreeradical 27d ago

Such claims are nonsense.

No one informed believes that the Democratic Party is interested in guaranteed security for everyone.

The Clinton Administration followed the neoliberal regime, of dismantling existing welfare and leaving any of its remnants as fundamentally punitive.