r/CharlotteHornets • u/Civrock • 5d ago
2024 NBA Free Agency Mega Thread
Hornets fans and visitors,
The purpose of this mega thread is for centralized chat and discussion of anything related to the 2024 NBA Free Agency, including fan-proposed trades, rather than numerous self posts or trade machine images/links which really don't need their own threads.
Posts/articles from media or other reputable sources regarding free agency rumors and trades can still be posted as their own threads, this is primarily for Free Agency commentary and trade ideas by fans. If you have a high quality text submission, go for it.
Thank you for your cooperation. Bonk on. š
š 2024 NBA Free Agency š
ā”ļø June 29
- Last day for a team or player option to be exercised
- Last day for a player to receive a Qualifying Offer
ā”ļø June 30
- Free agent negotiations can begin with players not on your own team (6 PM ET)
ā”ļø July 1
- Free agency moratorium (12:01 AM ET)
- First-round selections can sign contracts
- Minimum contracts (2 years or less) can sign
- Restricted free agents can sign an offer sheet
- Third-year and fourth-year rookie options can be exercised
- Two-way contracts can be signed and converted
ā”ļø July 6
- Free agency begins (12:00 PM ET)
- Teams can officially sign free agents
- Trades can become official
- Rookie-scale and veteran contracts can be extended
- Clock begins on offer sheets signed during the moratorium
ā”ļø July 13
- Last day to withdraw a Qualifying Offer
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u/WeakGuttedDog18 5h ago
So excited by the fact we now finally have Ownership who actually want to win. Theyāre backing in young minds and fresh voices to get there too. Being creative in the market, getting 3 free seconds for Reggie then using 2 of them for Green, thus getting him (and his very team friendly contract) for nothing. And taking a swing on a rangy Frenchman with high upside.
Thatās also not even mentioning the fact they went and got Tre, Poku and Grant out of nowhere. All whoāll contribute next year.
These guys arenāt gonna make old school Hornets decisions, boring and mundane, theyāre gonna try different things in their pursuit for a Championship. Iāll back their vision to the tilt. Been waiting a long time for this organisation to lock in. Letās fucking go, man. Had to make a Reddit account to voice this shit in writing because no one gives a fuck outside this app. But letās fucking go, man.
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u/tandtz 1d ago
There are so many guards on the roster. LaMelo, Cody, Mann, McGowens, Amari, Micic, KJ, Reggie, Green.
Obviously cutting some but it's still going to be close to half the roster.
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u/a_moniker 23h ago
Cody, Green, and McGowans all have enough size to be able to defend wings.
Amari Bailey isnāt signed anymore and Reggie Jackson probably negotiates a release.
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u/a_moniker 1d ago
Mavs are sending their own 2031 2nd and the lesser of Nuggets/76ers 2025 2ndās to the Warriors
As a result, we know that at least one of the picks we sent out is the lesser of the Nuggets and 76ers 2025 picks.
Iām not sure what the second one is. It could be the higher of those two picks (in which case Dallas made the swap) or it could be any future pick other than our 2025 & 2026 2nd Round Picks (these are wrapped up in the protections of next years 1st Rounder).
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u/YizWasHere 1d ago
I'm still kind of confused by the cap situation after this trade. We haven't cut Bertans yet which I believe is still giving us the the option to operate over-the-cap, which would mean we could absorb Green's contract under the MLE.
But if we were to cut Bertans, I think we'd still be a little bit short of having the room to fit Green's contract - I think we'd have to cut McGowens as well. That would give us access to the Room MLE, which we could use to sign Highsmith or maybe even Cedi Osman. But I'm not 100% confident I have the numbers right, Boone said that we're taking the contract into our cap but I'm not understanding where that cap is coming from if we haven't cut Bertans yet.
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u/a_moniker 1d ago edited 1d ago
We effectively have cut Bertans. It just hasnāt been reported yet, because the media doesnāt care about Charlotte or Bertans. The MLE isnāt enough to take on Reggie + Green, which means we must be working with cap space. The Bi-Annual also isnāt large enough for either player, and we donāt have any significant TPEās.
Salary According to Spotrac: $117.5M (Total) - $10.75M (Cutting Bertans) + $15M (Bridges) + $7.5M (Tidjane) = $129.25 (Active Salary minus Green)
Cap: $140.5M - $129.25M = $11.25M Space
That is more than Josh Greenās Cap Hit ($12.6M). However, there are two relatively easy ways we can get around that:
- The new CBA lets teams use the Room Exception to take back money in a trade. As a result, Iām pretty confident that we can use the Room Exception to take on Reggie Jacksonās money. This means that we have closer to $16 Million in cap space to absorb Green.
- If Iām wrong about the way the new CBA work (very possible), then we can just release Bryce McGowans. McGowans would even get a pay raise, if we brought him back after the deal, since the new minimum is higher than his current salary.
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u/OokerDuker 1d ago
Who else would you pay for 30 million as a free agent to replace Miles Bridges? I think he is the best at his salary. He averaged 20 ppg. Don't see anyone coming here unless it's for a bag and then we will get stuck with another Gordon Hayward.
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u/Amazing_Owl3026 1d ago
I just would not offer Miles that much ever, but now that his two bigger suitors seem uninterested I have a feeling he's (surprisingly) not going to get as big a deal as we thought. I'm thinking 100/4, 25 per year will be his contract and it'll be here. I could see it be less if we really hardballed him
1
u/a_moniker 1d ago
Yeah, I donāt think we have enough competition that we should need to offer much more than $25 Million per year. Most teams have already burned through their cap space.
1
u/Amazing_Owl3026 1d ago
The Pistons and Jazz still can offer him 29M but both of them have their 4 (even if Utah traded Lauri they still have Collins and Hendricks).
I think Miles is coming back
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u/a_moniker 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, it seems like Detroit is our only competition, and Miles would have signed with one of us by now if they were offering >= $30M
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u/buzzcitybonehead 1d ago
I suspect the longer this goes on, the better. This time last year we were speculating about like $18 mil/year for PJ and it ended up being $14 mil after everyone else spent their money.
If someone like Atlanta or Houston wants that talent boost, though, I donāt think an S&T is out of the question.
1
u/TheMuleB 19h ago edited 19h ago
We do need to be careful about not alienating our players though, apparently PJ felt disrespected by our offer and it was a big reason for why he played so poorly this last season. There's a reason teams don't usually lowball their players like that, this isn't 2k and you have to keep a good relationship with your players or it can get ugly very quickly. Players use their salaries as a measure of their rank in the league and in the locker room, and it can be dangerous to upset that.
With that being said, this is a very particular and rare situation due to the off court issues that Miles had, so I'm hopeful that he'll understand why the front office is reluctant to offer him a huge contract. All I'm saying is we need to be careful and it's not as simple as matching the highest offer another team is willing to make.
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u/Alkazard 1d ago
Keep in mind this is the notoriously cancer Klutch/Rich Paul we're talking about. Whilst I have high hopes the longer this goes the better for us, he's also the king of a chip on his shoulder and shunning anything he feels is disrespect.
Wouldn't be surprised if less than 25m a year and he'll request a sign and trade even if it's less money - considering we didn't reach their expectations last year either.
Or more likely a short term 1 year or 1+1 contract to try again and make us suffer for a 3rd off season in a row
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u/a_moniker 1d ago
Good. I hope he demands a sign-and-trade.
I just donāt think that many teams want to give him a big contract, tbh. This is the second off-season in a row where he apparently canāt find a good competing offer. Trying a 3rd time would just be idiotic.
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u/poontawn 1d ago
Hey I am a Mavs fan but the hornets have been a league pass team for me for years. Here's what I will tell you about Josh Green, coming from someone that legit watched every game the Mavs have played the past couple of seasons.
Strengths:
He's a serviceable POA defender, he uses his speed to stay in front of players but his defensive IQ is average at best. So expect situations where he looks like an elite defender only to get lose an easy beat.
Motor and Hustle, he fucking cares and everyone can see it.
He's a quick boy, and he likes run and gun offenses. Lamelo is a great guard for him to play with, I think his ppg goes up quite a bit this season. He's going to be your starter going forward, I can't image anyone else over him.
Hustle
His 3pt shooting has improved every season, even though he is down 1.2% from 22-23 he is shooting more often. His shot seems to fall when you need it most, especially in a situation when you are behind and need a bucket.
Hustles his ass off
He is a great finisher and that's what makes him awesome in the fast break, like i've said a bunch already. Josh Green fucking hustles the entire time he's out there. Every minute of every game, the dude hustles
Weaknesses:
His handle isn't all the way there, you don't want him initiating a fast break but rather finishing it. I would venture to guess that most of his turnovers this season are from that.
Shot can be streaky, he can go cold and when he does he loses confidence in his shot. But in times like these he will drive to the basket instead of taking the open shot which is good
Defensive matchups against high IQ guards leave a lot to be desired sometimes, he will get beat by high level guards but slow down wings and 4s who are much longer/larger than him.
Final thing is improvement. Josh Green works on his game every offseason and shows up as a much improved version of himself. He's 23 and going into his 5th season, but this season to a team where his role has increased. So I expect you guys to have a Josh Green that the Mavs never had. With Luka and Kyrie, Green played backup wing and I don't really think that's his ideal position. I think he's more of a 2 and I hope that's where you guys play him. But I am excited to watch the hornets next year and expect you guys (if healthy) to be in playoff contention in the East.
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u/a_moniker 1d ago
His only competition for starting would seem to be Tre Mann or Grant Williams (if we want a jumbo lineup).
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u/BoostMySkillz 1d ago
Seems like the market is shrinking, especially for a sign and trade deal to get miles moved. You think there's a 1 year deal coming up for miles to stay or a 1+1 deal?
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u/Amazing_Owl3026 1d ago
I think both sides would be more interested in aonger term deal unless Miles really wants to bet on raising his value
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u/BoostMySkillz 1d ago
I agree on that too. Just not sure if we're in the position to break the bank
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u/OokerDuker 1d ago
Who else would you pay for 30 million as a free agent to replace him? I think he is the best at his salary. He averaged 20 ppg. Don't see anyone coming here unless it's for a bag and then we will get stuck with another Gordon Hayward
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u/a_moniker 1d ago
I just donāt think he has any other offers for $30 Million.
We shouldnāt have to offer more than $25 Million.
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u/a_moniker 1d ago
Josh Green is a solid get. Just want to know what/if weāre giving up. If its picks then I doubt itās more than 2ndās
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u/Civrock 1d ago
Woj reported it's two seconds but we'll see what the finalized deal looks like.
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u/Cubelar 1d ago
Tobias for 2/52. I would offer miles a 2/60 or like a 3/85.Ā
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u/Alkazard 1d ago
There's already talk that the cap is basically set at 25m/year, and with Detroit now out of the running there's no real competition.Ā
Hope we don't massively under offer and jade him out of returning because the market is drying up
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u/Cubelar 1d ago
They'll explore s&t if he gets lowballed
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u/buzzcitybonehead 1d ago
Which imo is best case scenario. With where we are, Iād rather have 2 role players on tradable contracts to pick up picks later. Either a bargain contract or S&T set us up nicely.
Last year PJās negotiations pushed late into the FA cycle and we ended up with a beautiful $14 mil/year contract that got us a damn-near unprotected pick. If other suitors are out, Miles at 4 yrs/$100 mil or some role players on 2-3 year deals in the $8-18 mil range gives us more fodder for trades. Even if we show signs of being ready to make a splash in a year or two, weād have nice trade flexibility.
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u/Cubelar 1d ago
The good role players are quickly getting scooped, I'm not sure there's enough of those available to pivot to that. We'd likely just take bad comtracts for assets if Miles walks. PJ was a restricted free agent which is why they could hardball. At this point a 2 or 3 year deal with higher aav suits both hornets and miles.
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u/a_moniker 1d ago
Hayward Highsmith and Goga Bitazde would both be good pickups. They could get one of those guys with or without Miles tho, if they waive Bertans
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u/Pacowles 1d ago
Pistons picked up Tobias Harris and 76ers signed PG. We thinking that takes them out of the equation for Miles? It would be amazing if the market for him dries up and we can sign him cheap. No love lost if he walks though, just hate to squander an asset (even if itās his fault).
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u/hankjr16 1d ago
Once Detroit, Sixers and Magic are officially not options for Bridges, I think a sign-and-trade actually becomes more attractive than even re-signing him to a reasonable deal. GSW, Lakers, Clippers look like teams that will be absolutely desperate to add someone with his upside at his age. If we can get a future unprotected first from any of those organizations it would be absolute gold and could be the centerpiece of a significant trade once this core is ready to take the next step.
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u/a_moniker 1d ago
Yeah, a Warriors sign-and-trade is becoming more of an option by the day. Theyāve removed the biggest stumbling block already, which was the tax restriction GS faced.
They can match salaries with some combination of Wiggins ($26M), Gary Peyton II ($9M), Moody ($6M), Looney ($8M), and anything they get back from a Klay sign-and-trade.
Could see something like:
Warriors Get:
- Miles Bridges
- Nick Richards
Hornets Get:
- Josh Green
- Maxi Kleber
- Protected Pick(s)
Mavs Get:
- Klay Thompson
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u/AttackSalad 1d ago
Yeah itās looking like either sign and trade or kept on a cheap deal at this point.
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u/buzzcitybonehead 1d ago
I think there are potential suitors for that sign and trade and I hope someone is motivated to do it. Sacramento, Atlanta, New Orleans, Cleveland, Orlando, and maybe even Dallas or San Antonio could be suitors.
A hyper-athletic wing averaging 20 PPG who can create to some extent fits a lot of places and anything under $30 mil/year is great value for a feasible second or third option. If it wasnāt for the moral questions around him, heād be hot in the current FA cycle.
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u/a_moniker 1d ago
I believe the Warriors are the most likely option.
They have plenty of ways to match (including a 3-team Klay deal), Draymond and Miles are best friends, they donāt want to waste Curryās last years, and they arenāt limited by the tax anymore.
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u/YizWasHere 1d ago
Paul George domino has fallen can we do something now pls? Seeing JV and DJJ going for $10M/yr deals making me jealous
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u/Smitty_Agent89 1d ago
Weāre basically. Rebuilding team. I wouldnāt expect many moves worth anything.
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u/buzzcitybonehead 1d ago
A rebuilding team should look to get guys on mid-level 2 to 3 year deals to squeeze picks out of contenders later. Washington is great at that, and re-signing PJ last year let us do it. Even something like 3 years/$40 mil for a Buddy Hield type could bear fruit later
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u/NotManyBuses 1d ago
We are a third day free agency team. We were never going to make a win now move.
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u/Confirmed_DankMemes 1d ago
Iām hoping the delay on signing miles means he gone. I want to cheer for my team again.
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u/HYoungMoney 1d ago
Regardless of if we are planning to keep him or not he would be the last player we sign because we can sign him over the cap.
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u/Smitty_Agent89 1d ago
An agreement can still be reached beforehand lol. In fact thatās usually what happens they donāt wait typically to spread it through media.
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u/HYoungMoney 1d ago
Teams usually won't reach an agreement before other teams make a contract bid which is the point in the qualifying offer right?
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u/IAmLeMickey 2d ago
Picking up either Haywood or Malik Beasley would be good.
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u/420ballzdeepinurmom2 2d ago
Yeah but random undrafteds the heat turn around are always ass when they leave
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u/IAmLeMickey 2d ago
True lol
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u/OhMyGauche 1d ago
And Malik Beasley is not exactly the culture fit weāre looking for here either tbf
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u/SnakeOilPurveyor 2d ago
Hollinger just said a Westbrook trade to Denver may get looped into our Reggie Jackson trade.Ā Would be nice to stack up even more seconds for that deal, I guess.
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
We wouldnāt get anything else. I think they would just be using the cap space from our deal
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u/SnakeOilPurveyor 2d ago
I'm assuming we'd send Reggie to LA in this case.Ā I guess it's possible we don't.
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
It essentially would be that. We just wouldnāt get anything else for that. Our side of the deal is already agreed to.
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u/Amazing_Owl3026 1d ago
Well since the first deal is done we aren't obligated to do the second part by contract and could demand a second
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u/SnakeOilPurveyor 1d ago
That's what I was getting at.Ā Why would we give the Clips Reggie for free if only the Nuggets are getting something from them?
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
How pissed must Kupchak be? He gets fired and then everyone suddenly cares about tampering rules lol
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u/Particular_Twist_653 2d ago
I donāt particularly care either way if somebody else signs Miles or if we sign Milesā¦ all I really care about is that whatever happens, happens quickly.
I canāt deal with another offseason of just āwhatās happening with Milesā.
-19
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
The Pistons roster seems like a terrible fit. I wouldnāt be opposed to trying to grab Jaden Ivey at a time when heās a little undervalued.
I still think heās gonna turn out being really, really good, and the fast break potential of LaMelo, Ivey, Tidjane, and Miller would be electric! Defense would obviously be a work in progress tho
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u/Smitty_Agent89 1d ago
Ivey is a meh fit next to Lamelo. Not a good defender, alright shooter, not as effective off ball.
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
76ers just released Terquavion Smith (21 y/o, 6ā4ā Guard from NC State). I know we have a lot of guard depth, but I wouldnāt hate bringing him in as a cheap upside play and trading some of our current guards for wings.
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u/FurryOwlet 2d ago
I'd take him on a 2-way over Bailey
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
I get the sense that weāre not retaining Bailey. He hasnāt been linked to the Summer League roster at all, and kinda overlaps with KJ Simpson.
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u/FurryOwlet 2d ago
I like Bailey but I don't really see a viable path where his skillset overcomes his physical limitations.Ā Ā
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u/YizWasHere 2d ago edited 2d ago
Ok hear me out on this one...
If we strike out on Miles and the Bulls offer 2 of their own FRPs to offload LaVine, would you guys take it? I think if we sent Bertans we could absorb the rest of the contract into our cap space. He's obviously not a good fit, overpaid, injury prone, and the deal is guaranteed up to 2027, but two of Chicago's picks would be a very nice haul if we're still going to be rebuilding anyways. Idk if they're offering that many, but they seem to be motivated to dump him.
Edit: 2 FRPs is probably unrealistic, some of the teams with space that miss out on PG or Klay might take him for 1 FRP out of desperation. I still think it's worth considering though.
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u/FurryOwlet 2d ago
It sounds like the only asset they'd be offering is a Portland first that is highly likely to convey into a 2nd.Ā Lavine is too risky to bring on, we'd be handcuffing ourself to him during the most important part of LaMelos contract
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u/Smitty_Agent89 2d ago
If we take on Lavine his salary brings us into the 1st apron. It wouldnāt be worth it, he makes too much money for too long.
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
I would think about it if we didnāt owe the pick to the Spurs. I donāt know if the current team will make the playoffs, but LaVine should make that much more likely, but also wouldnāt really raise our future ceiling. We could easily end up trading a lottery pick in a loaded draft for a mediocre future draft pick and a guaranteed first round exit.
Iād still maybe think about 2 Picks + LaVine, but like you said, I doubt they offer that much. Even then, Iād rather we did a deal like that at the trade deadline, once weāve got a better idea about whether the team is ready to make the playoffs.
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u/Smitty_Agent89 2d ago
Lavine here would kill is on defense. I do not want a player like him here on that contract.
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u/Cubelar 2d ago
Patrick Williams who some fans wanted as a cheaper option than Miles just got 5/90. Fans are really going to have to grapple with the fact that Miles will rightfully get paid alot of money.
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u/Particular_Twist_653 2d ago
Yeah you are right with all these wing signings Miles is definitely getting at least 30 per
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
The current cap space teams are the 76ers, Pistons, Thunder, Magic, and Utah. Of those teams, only the 76ers and Pistons seem like a realistic threat to sign him away. The Thunder organization doesnāt have a history of signing guys with character concerns, the Magic donāt have room at the forward position. Utah has an outside chance, but they seem like a team that just wants to take on bad contracts for additional assets.
As a result, Milesās free agency completely depends on two things:
- Do the 76ers strike out on Paul George? Cause if they do, then Bridges is probably on the short list for next options. I could definitely see them offering more than $30 Million.
- Do the Pistons want Miles? Iām not sure about this one, tbh. They just drafted another shooter in Holland, which means that they seem to be setting themselves up for another tanking season. If I had to guess, Iād say that they either try to acquire assets in exchange for taking salary (LaVine??) or sign good shooters (37%+) which isnāt really Bridgesās game.
If the 76ers and Pistons donāt offer Bridges a contract, then there is a very good chance that weāll either be able to bring him back for around $25 Million per year or negotiate a sign-and-trade.
In my opinion, the most likely sign-and-trade teams would be the Mavs, Kings, or the Warriors. None of those teams will be limited by the Apron (the Warriors have let Klay walk).
- The Mavs could use an upgrade on DJJ, arenāt restricted by the Apron, and can match salaries with Josh Green ($13M) + Maxi Kleber ($11M).
- The Warriors are gonna be a bit desperate, since their window with Steph is about to slam shut. Miles is also good friends with Draymond, and they can easily match salaries with CP3 ($30M Non-Guaranteed till the end of the day) + Andrew Wiggins ($26M) + Gary Peyton II ($10M).
- The Kings need an upgrade at PF, and can match salaries with Harrison Barnes ($18M). They also have the most available future picks to trade.
Conclusion:
We should know relatively quickly whether Miles is a threat to leave. The 76ers deal will be one of the first major deals completed, since their decision controls the rest of free-agency. The Pistons situation may take longer to work out, but it should be clear relatively quickly whether they offer Miles a deal.
Personally, I am rooting for a sign-and-trade though. Here are my preferences in order:
- Trade Miles for CP3 + Moses Moody + Future 1st Round Pick(s) in time to be able to release CP3ās non-guaranteed money by the end of the day. Then use our cap space to get more assets in a salary dump.
- Josh Green + Maxi Kleber + Pick(s) for Miles. Green starts next to LaMelo and Miller. Kleber gives us a backup Center who can stretch the floor. Use the MLE on the best SF/PF we can get. Iād also like to remove the top-2 protection on the 2027 pick.
- Harrison Barnes + (maybe) Kevin Huerter + Pick(s) for Miles Bridges. Barnes starts at Forward for us. If we can grab Kevin Huerter (6ā7ā) then he gives us more wing depth.
- Andrew Wiggins + (hopefully) Gary Peyton II + Future First Round Pick for Miles. Possibly send Wiggins to a 3rd team for more assets. Otherwise just have him start at SF. Let GP2 be our starting point-of-attack defender and help set vet culture.
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u/FurryOwlet 2d ago
only thing I want to point out is that if we were to trade for Chris Paul, his salary would become guaranteedĀ
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
Yeah, thatās what someone else said. Itās a bit unfortunate, though not a huge deal if we plan on mini tanking a bit for Flagg or Ace.
I wasnāt sure if it did or not, but Iād still be fine with taking CP3 + Moody + Future Unprotected Pick. We could just waive CP3 and then sign another wing with the MLE.
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u/FurryOwlet 2d ago
We're going to have to use part of our MLE to cover the Reggie Jackson trade (provided we can't move him somewhere) but that would still leave us with ~8mil I believeĀ
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
If we cut Bertans then we can open up close to the full MLE, and can (maybe??) take Reggie into the Room Exception to clear even more. I might be wrong about the Room Exception in the new CBA though.
Per Spotrac: $117.5M (Current Salary) - $10.5M (Bertans) + $15M (Bridges) + $7.5M (Tidjane) = $129.5 Million
$141M (Salary Cap) - $129.5M (Our Salary) = ~$11M, and we can open more by cutting McGowans or taking Reggie into the Room Exception.
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u/YizWasHere 2d ago
Man if they included Huerter I would do #3 in a heartbeat without any picks. Realistically, if they're parting with Huerter I don't think they'd offer them anyways. Those are like dream scenario type of roleplayer fits for this squad lol.
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
Yeah, Huerter would be great. I think the Warriors are by far the most likely sign-and-trade partner though. Theyāre desperate for a win-now piece next to Steph/Draymond, and Draymond and Miles Bridges are good friends. The Warriors also showed they donāt care about off-the-court issues, when they rostered Anthony Lamb for a season.
One thing Iām not sure about is whether weād have to guarantee CP3ās contract if he was the matching salary. If we donāt, then I could see that deal going down by the end of the night. Itād let the Warriors keep a Steph + Wiggins + Miles + Kuminga + Draymond starting lineup, and would let us snag a draft pick and have a ton of cap space for the rest of free agency. Iād love if we could get Moises as well, as some cheap wing depth.
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u/swanbearpig 3d ago
Hear me out: sign and trade deal of some sort involving miles bridges for Paul George. I do not know ball or the cap situation implications. I feel this would be very fun and good for BMills developmenr. Do not @ me
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u/Amazing_Owl3026 2d ago
FO wants to tank so we wouldn't but ik Miller would be happy with it
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u/palmettowhig 2d ago
Source on the FO saying they want to tank?
1
u/Amazing_Owl3026 2d ago
Tidjane is the least nba ready guy we could've taken, FO talks about "We don't want to make the playoffs once and then not make it the next year. We want continued success".
We would get fined if we admitted to wanting to tank, it's against the rules.
Also we lose our pick next year if we make the playoffs so it just doesn't make sense to do it when we're at very best a 6th seed.
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u/SnakeOilPurveyor 2d ago
No source saying it directly but I think them taking a small step back rather than tanking makes perfect sense.Ā Ā
That pick we owe the Spurs stands to be quite valuable in what is said to be a good draft.Ā Plus, it turns into seconds after this year if not conveyed.Ā That's a pretty huge asset change.Ā Ā
It stands to reason as well that based on the Salaun pick we weren't looking for a Knecht-like instant contributor in the draft and(if what they've said about Miles is true) we won't have much cap to do anything with this year.
Seems better for a new front office to evaluate their roster for a year, trade out guys that don't fit it and protect a valuable future asset.
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u/a_moniker 2d ago
Yeah, my biggest gripe with the franchise has always been that they always seem to think that their current roster is āfineā or already āready to win.ā
- They constantly either drafted low-ceiling, win-now prospects (Cody Zeller, Frank Kaminsky, PJ Washington, etc) or the players who started to āfallā (Bouknight, Monk, Vonleh, etc)
- They often traded valuable picks for mediocre vets (Marco Belinelli trade) or salary cap savings (Jalen Duren trade)
- They gave out big contracts to who could āinstantlyā make them compete for a title, instead of making sure that they had the requisite talent for that player to actually make a difference (Gordon Hayward)
- They have rarely been willing to take salary dumps in exchange for future draft picks
- They refused to use free agency to upgrade their depth, and consistently acted like they didnāt even need to account for injuries (Maledon and Nitilikina as the only backup PG?? Plumlee as the only playable Center??)
Iād much rather have a front-office thatās patient and willing to take risks in order to actually build a team thatās capable of winning a title. The young core needs to prove that it can make the playoffs on its own, before they start cashing in chips for āwin-nowā players.
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u/Amazing_Owl3026 3d ago
Can we resign Miles tomorrow? Or since he's an UFA would that not be allowed
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u/a_moniker 3d ago
We already could have re-signed him. We likely wonāt get a deal worked out until the 76ers use their cap space, at minimum.
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u/OokerDuker 3d ago
76ers will overpay to get him. They need someone of Bridges caliber so bad when they can't get a bucket. Don't think he is going to sign here.
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u/a_moniker 4d ago
If we cut Bertans, then we should open up around $13 Million in cap space now that weāve released Seth and Thor. Thatās also assuming we re-signed Milesās.
So, if we wanted, we could offer one free agent a little more than the MLE, and still sign another free agent to around an $8 Million contract using the Room Exception. Iām not certain, but we might be able to use the Room Exception in the Reggie Jackson trade, which would let us offer a free agent around $18 Million per year. The new CBA is a little tricky to understand though.
Personally, Iād like us to target Goga Bitazde with the cap space. We desperately need a 3rd Center, and I think Goga is an upgrade on Richards. We do need more wing depth as well though.
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u/YizWasHere 3d ago
Wing depth should be higher priority than center imo. I think we have to use that cap on a wing and then if there are centers still available then we can use the room exception on them. Using $13M on another center just seems wasteful to me.
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u/a_moniker 3d ago
I definitely agree that wing depth is a huge need as well. I just feel like there are more gettable Centers than Forwards.
All the good teams are gonna gobble up all the wings, and weād be overpaying for whatever is left.
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u/YizWasHere 3d ago
Yeah I get where you're coming from, every year we've entered free agency with some cap space it feels like all the affordable wings get gobbled up within the first 15 minutes, before Kupchak even picked up the phone. I'm betting on the new FO handling free agency much better but we're not exactly a premier landing spot regardless.
From the standpoint of "winning this year doesn't really matter," walking away with another center on a multi-year contract isn't a bad outcome.
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u/SnakeOilPurveyor 4d ago
Thanks for the cap breakdown!Ā I'm definitely nervous about not having a third center, thought we might take one in the second round but they all seemed to dry up right before us.
Would be down for Goga, but would really like to pry Melton away from Philly.Ā It would definitely take an overpay to make him come to Charlotte right now though.
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u/Batercus 4d ago
IQ got 5/175 I am scared what Miles is gonna ask for.
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u/chlorinetablet 4d ago
He can ask for whatever he wants. Iām worried about what we will agree to pay him. Whether we want him or not on the team this is the biggest free agent target weāre likely to see. Personally, with the way the draft went Iām okay with the extra cap for the next season(s) and I donāt think whether miles is on the team or not we werenāt making the playoffs next season.
TLDR; FO should save money regardless of miles signing or not
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u/butekoo 4d ago
Apparently, per spotrac, we have until today to not guarantee Seth's contract lol
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u/a_moniker 4d ago
Yeah, weāll find out today if weāre planning to operate as an under-the-cap team or an over-the-cap team. If we want to be an under-the-cap team then we need to either let Miles walk for nothing or release Curry tonight and Bertans later.
My guess is that we just operate as an over-the-cap team though. If thatās our decision, then we have around $7.5 Million of the MLE left, after using $5.25 Million on the Reggie Jackson salary dump
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u/UpTheChelsea- 5d ago
Who is competing with us for Miles Bridges? Last year no one wanted him. Anything over $25 million is a pass for me.
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u/TheMuleB 4d ago
He's 100% getting more than 25, the cap is going way up with the new TV deal. Immanuel Quickly just got 35M. Miles should get about the same, maybe a bit less because of all the off-court baggage, but I'd be shocked if he doesn't get at least 30M/yr. Might seem like a lot but it really isn't with the way the cap is going to shoot up, you need to get used to these new figures.
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u/DailyPanthersPodcast 4d ago
The cap is going to go up 10% every year for the next few years, so 30M is pretty insignificant for a player of Milesā caliber. Monk just got 20M and is worse than Bridges in pretty much every category (even with him in 3P shooting. )
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u/Amazing_Owl3026 5d ago
Sixers and Pistons, he'll probably get 30 M
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u/AppropriateAd5225 4d ago
I don't think the Pistons are interested, but the Sixers are desperate. They're the biggest threat to sign Miles.Ā
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u/theRestisConfettii 4d ago
At that number, they can have him.
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u/OokerDuker 3d ago
You say that, but who else are we gonna sign of his caliber. No free agent wants to come to Charlotte unless it's for a bag and they won't be better than Bridges for 30 mill/ 1 year.
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u/Smitty_Agent89 2d ago
Itās not about getting someone if that caliber. Itās about building an actual team. Signing miles to 30m per year restricts of from being able to construct the team how the new regime wants and taking on assets.
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u/YizWasHere 5d ago
Assuming we re-sign Miles, the Reggie Jackson trade takes out a lot of the wing options we had which is kind of annoying. Makes me think the plan is to upgrade via trades and/or a Miles S&T. It's hard to complain about 3 second rounders for a $5M salary dump regardless lol.
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u/DailyPanthersPodcast 4d ago
I wouldnāt be surprised if we plan to buy Reggie out again. Too crowded for him on this team, would save us some money, and allow him to seek a veteran role on a contender.
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u/buzzcitybonehead 5d ago
The Miles S&T makes sense for a lot of reasons. The moves all signal another rebuilding year and if LaMelo is healthy, Mark is healthy, Miller improves at all, and Bridges is in the roster, we could easily be a 40-win play-in team again.
This doesnāt seem like a front office or ownership group that buys MJās method of straddling rebuilding and competing. Hopefully a cap-limited team wants Miles and will offer a first and/or a prospect. Iād love an outcome similar to the Te sign and trade that got us New Orleansā 15th pick to draft Mark.
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u/BizzaroMatthews 5d ago
Do we still have an open roster spot? Once we resign Bridges we should be good numbers-wise, right?
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u/Amazing_Owl3026 5d ago
We may cut Bertans and JT
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u/a_moniker 4d ago
I think weāll cut Bertans and Reggie, and then bring in James Nnaji as our 3rd big instead of Bolden.
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u/Amazing_Owl3026 4d ago
I don't think Nnaji will come over until we rlly need him or he improves a lot. Apparently Spanish league practices more than they play (that's important for a non rotation player)
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u/tandtz 5d ago edited 4d ago
Current contracts :Ā
LaMelo, Mark, Miller, NSJ, Grant, Micic, Mann, Martin, Bertans, Richards, McGowens, PokuĀ Ā Ā
That's 12, so we have 3 roster slots to then deal with:Ā Ā
Miles, Amari, Mensah and Ish are free agentsĀ Ā
Team options on Seth and JTĀ Ā
Got Tidjane and KJ to signĀ
Reggie Jackson traded to us.Ā
Edit: Forgot that Nnaji is stashedĀ
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u/DailyPanthersPodcast 4d ago
KJ and Tidjane may very well start their careers in the G League. I think Hornets fans should just treat them like baseball prospects at this point.
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u/tandtz 4d ago
I can't imagine Tidjane not being signed to a full roster spotĀ
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u/DailyPanthersPodcast 4d ago
I mean Mark Williams spent time in the G league and he was much more polished. Not sure what āsigned to a full roster spotā means exactly, but Tidjaneās contract is already set in stone, regardless of how much time he spends in Greensboro.
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u/tandtz 4d ago
Yeah so you can see why I'm confused, considering all that was being talked about was roster spots. The only way your comment was relevant was if you thought he would be in a two-way
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u/AppropriateAd5225 4d ago
Yep, Tidjane is already on the 15 man full roster. All 1st round picks get 2 years of guaranteed money automatically.Ā
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u/bubowskee 5d ago
Mega threads in a sub that averages like one post a day. Really great ideas all around.
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u/theRestisConfettii 5d ago
Looking forward to seeing Jeff Peterson cook.
Letās get to work. Buzz buzz.
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u/NotManyBuses 5d ago
Bridges decides the entire off-season, really.
Best scenario: lucrative sign-and-trade netting picks and/or a player
Good scenario: Bridges re-signs on something less than $25m AAV (3/75, 4/100)
Mediocre scenario: Bridges re-signs for less than $30m AAV (4/115 or something)
Bad, unacceptable scenarios: Bridges walks for nothing or we pay a gigantic >$30m AAV deal
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u/ISISCosby 5d ago
Bridges re-signing for less than $25M/yr is honestly so improbable that'd be an absolute coup in terms of pure salary management.
His starting price is gonna be $28M/yr and someone will pay him $30m or more
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u/Impossible_Dish_2197 5d ago
Name the team
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u/Amazing_Owl3026 5d ago
Sixers or Detroit
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u/Impossible_Dish_2197 4d ago
I highly doubt it but we will see
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u/Amazing_Owl3026 4d ago
Why do you doubt it? I'd love to hear reason but I think Philly is very likely to offer him a lot
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u/Impossible_Dish_2197 4d ago
I dont think Miles puts Philly any closer to winning a chip. I actually think it hinders them more
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u/Amazing_Owl3026 4d ago
Ye having a 20/8/4 guy would be terrible. They go for the other elite free agents like... Tobias Harris
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u/ISISCosby 4d ago
My answer was gonna be "literally anyone who misses out on the Paul George sweepstakes or has cap space" but yeah those are def the top two
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u/Alkazard 5d ago
I really feel best and good should be swapped. I can't see us getting anywhere near value back for him, and by giving him up we're just leaving another giant hole we'll struggle to fill. 28-30/year is what I'll expect, and be happy with. Above that becomes a bit icky. Below that is entirely unrealistic.
Peterson said today they've made it clear they want Bridges to stay.
I guess we're stuck waiting a week to see what other teams offer him.
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u/Successful-Tie-4208 4d ago
the only way iāll be fine w getting rid of Bridges is if we get a sign and trade done for Ingram
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u/jaemoon7 5d ago
Completely agree about Bridges, I think we resign him with an eye towards trading him later on for bad salary + picks from one of these all-in teams (preferably one that will implode before the year of the pick). I would guess we get one or two FRPs for him? Although if Mikal just went for 5 FRPs then who knows lol, all it takes is one desperate team.
After trading Bridges, we will have a good idea of Salaun & if heās ready for more minutes or what.
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u/ISISCosby 5d ago
I think we resign him with an eye towards trading him later on for bad salary + picks from one of these all-in teams
Something to keep in mind here is that it gets a lot harder to trade a guy like Bridges to a contender with the new luxury tax rules.
If a team is in the 2nd apron now, they:
cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron
cannot aggregate outgoing player salaries to match incoming player salaries (aka can't trade player A + player B to get player C)
If we go down the sign-and-hold route, it'd be much more likely we trade him to a team below the 2nd apron rather than a maxed-out contender, who probably wouldn't love the idea of sending us picks anyway since that basically the only way those teams can add new players
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u/a_moniker 4d ago
If we can head into the below the salary cap, then itād give us more options for a Miles trade at the deadline. Itād let us take back a little more salary in a trade, which would be big for those 2nd Apron restrictions.
I doubt we do that though. Itād be difficult to accomplish, and would likely require us to salary dump someone like Cody Martin. The more likely trade deadline option would just be to send him to a non-second apron team like the Mavericks, Cavaliers, Pacers, Kings, or Lakers.
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u/buzzcitybonehead 47m ago
Something to keep in mind as teams retool and the East improves: Miami owes OKC a first round pick. Itās lottery protected in 2025 (this season) and unprotected in 2026. If they miss the playoffs this season, theyāll send a 2026 pick.
Miami also owes us a first round pick. Itās lottery protected in 2027 and unprotected in 2028. However if Miami misses the playoffs this year, theyāll be sending a 2026 pick to OKC. Due to the Stepien Rule, they canāt send out two yearās picks in a row. Thus, they canāt send us the lottery protected 2027 pick and have to send an unprotected 2028 pick.
TL;DR: If Miami misses the playoffs this year, we get an unprotected first rounder from them when Jimmy Butler is 38 years old.