r/southpark • u/Revenacious • Nov 30 '23
Seems like some folks paid little attention to the episode Meme
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u/Satan-Wept Nov 30 '23
This episode has been wonderful for finding channels to block from my YouTube recommendations.
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u/Zocialix Nov 30 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
They also conveniently ignore the broader point regards to how that version of Kathleen Kennedy is just Eric Cartman if he were to project all his worst characteristics and attitudes on. That's like The Point. Hence why the episode specifically ends as Kathleen Kennedy Cartman with them waking up from a nightmare mirroring the beginning of the episode where Cartman had a dream about being replaced by a Diverse Woman and pestering his mother to look under to bed to check if Kathleen Kennedy is there. Whereas the actual Kathleen Kennedy is just presented as a normal person with flaws, but who still nontheless has their heart in the right place. At the end of it all, Eric Cartman is still the butt of the joke as it was never the real Kathleen Kenedy they were mocking, but the hyper-senationalised strawman of her which obscures any nuance of debate to be had when critiquing a piece of entertainment.
It's Kyle that's as per usual presented as the voice of reason where he provides the reasoned opposition of debate to PC Principle concerning how you can't just take a white supremacist character like Eric Cartman and make him blac, having him be the same kind of character. He's also the one to specifically point out concepts of multiverses being tired and lazy, which is also true.
That's not even getting into the B plot where everyone's qualifications have been rendered useless being made overly reliant on services and the rich fucking around in space as the ongoing culture war distracts us.
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u/Business-Drag52 Nov 30 '23
The issue I had was, the show worked completely fine for me replacing all the kids with diverse women. The characters were still the characters. “Oh my god, she really is Cartman” made me laugh harder than anything this year
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u/Abiv23 Nov 30 '23
the point of that episode is diversity is being used as cover for unoriginal/lazy ideas
you weren't supposed to hate the diverse women version, you were meant to question why it exists at all
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u/Zocialix Nov 30 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
Hey I'd have no qualms with there being a spin-off or at the very least a revisiting of that universe. I think a lot of fans want that haha.
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u/Business-Drag52 Nov 30 '23
They did it so well. “Loo loo loo I got some apples” also killed me. Or the panderverse butters immediately being regular Cartmans bitch
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u/Vyctorill Dec 01 '23
I think that was the point. It didn’t add anything to the plot - it was the same show with no improvements.
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u/wtjordan1s Nov 30 '23
That’s the whole point of the episode. It doesn’t matter if the character and the content are the same if it’s played by someone whose not a white dude it’s “pc” despite lady cartman making fart jokes and playing baulders gate
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u/4got2takemymeds Southpark Fan Nov 30 '23
Excellent. You get it. Fantastic take, I couldn't have said it better myself
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u/HandsomeTar Nov 30 '23
This is just not an accurate depiction of the Panderverse. To say that this episode has Cartman as the butt of the joke over Kathleen Kennedy is serious cope.
The real point is that she and the writers are incredibly lazy. All they have done is remake movies with gender swapping / race swapping. AKA pandering. That’s the panderstone, you don’t do any work, and you just make remakes to pander to audiences. And yes, Cartman represents the ppl that take it all way too far.
To say they are trying to paint Kathleen Kennedy as somebody w their heart in the right place is outright false, and again, cope. It’s similar to the family guy episode, very similar, where their hatred for lazy unoriginal writing is very clear. That’s what Disney does: lazy unoriginal writing that panders. That’s what the episode is about.
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u/Zocialix Nov 30 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
People like Eric Cartman don't just: 'take it too far' they obscure the conversation away from reasoned critique concerning the aformentioned. For instance when you label entainiment and people who like x: 'woke' you're not providing nuance to the conversation you're bogging it down with narrativizing that doesn't address the specific issue, which is the real dilemma of the conflict between them. That's why Cartman Kathleen Kennedy and real life Kathleen Kennedy are treated separately.
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u/HandsomeTar Nov 30 '23
I think the vast majority of people that criticize Disney go into detail about how bad the writing is. Like Critical Drinker for an example, who's probably the most popular channel that talks about stuff like this. I don't think that many people use "woke" seriously anymore. I think you're straw manning the side of the argument that you don't like. The people that seethe about this make hour long youtube videos talking about how much they hate the writing, and point out the clear pandering.
If you're talking about somebody like Shapiro I'd agree w you. But those ppl are saying these things because of the political gain, whereas most people just want better content.
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u/Zocialix Nov 30 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
Also you're doing it here yourself. You're treating the term woke like a haphazard rorschach test, why do you even need to use that term in this manner? Why can't you simply say like a normal fucking human being that Disney lazily exploits representation and that's a bad thing not cause of: 'woke', but cause they're a cynical corporate institution that's two-faced in its representation and that we need better representation of minorities? People like Critical Drinker instead of saying things like that blame it primarily on trans people or ethnic minorities being included to be begin with. That's the issue with using the term: 'woke' like this, it's obscures nuance and dehumanizes people.
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u/HandsomeTar Nov 30 '23
You're seething bro. It's not that deep. You aren't tearing down a white supremacist. Just a guy that likes south park, and prefers content that's good and isn't built on pandering. Similar to how matt & trey feel.
There's no dehumanization going on. We are just two people commenting on r/southpark. It's all gonna be okay. You are not a freedom fighter buddy.
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u/Zocialix Nov 30 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
You realise I literally brought up the point about multiverses being tired and the overall laziness of simply race swapping Eric Cartman and how that clearly doesn't work referencing Kyle to further represent the point? Pretty sure I clarified well that Kathleen Kennedy is a FLAWED person, in that yes corporate pandering towards cynical ends from a marketing standpoint is lame. I literally pointed this out...
This is what I was getting at when I said: 'but the hyper-senationalised strawman of her which obscures any nuance of debate to be had when critiquing a piece of entertainment' such as overtired tropes, oversaturation of remakes of older IP's, lack of new ideas, race swapping characters you name it, but to put that solely on the blame of Kathleen Kennedy you sound like Randy lol "THIS IS ALL KATHLEEN KENNEDY'S FAULT!"
By has her heart in the right place, I mean that she's just a normal woman who is under immense corporate presure to exploit representation for cynical corporate ends, but the blame isn't solely on her, but the nature of the institution.
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u/HandsomeTar Nov 30 '23
Dude you're seriously twisting this. You said Kyle is the voice of reason and points out the "concepts of multiverses being tired and lazy, which is also true." I didn't even bring up multiverses.
You also said "the actual Kathleen Kennedy is just presented as a normal person with flaws, but who still nontheless has their heart in the right place." How is her heart in the right place if shes' performing "corporate pandering towards cynical ends from a marketing standpoint."
"she's just a normal woman who is under immense corporate presure to exploit representation for cynical corporate ends, but the blame isn't solely on her, but the nature of the institution." Excuse me? You're really gonna blame "the institution." She has a $300m net worth, she's the President of LucasFilm. You're trying to seriously make her a victim? There is no corporate pressure, she is the president, she has fuck you money. The episode also makes fun of Bob Iger, obviously to a lesser extent.
So people under immense pressure to exploit things for cynical ends have a free pass? Not sure you wanna go down that road...
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u/Zocialix Nov 30 '23
Yes, Kyle is the voice of reason as he's the only one that's not fearmongering about everything, but explaining specifically what the issues are. Also I don't care about Kathleen Kennedy, I'm not obssessed with her as you are. She's a dime a dosen Disney producer they change those every 5 to 10 years...
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u/Bromanzier_03 Nov 30 '23
That’s today’s comedians whining about cAnCeL cUltUrE now as well. Lazy comedy
“I can’t stand on stage and say what I want to say” - Man on stage saying what he wants to say.
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u/Revenacious Nov 30 '23
Excellent point! Thought this was fitting.
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u/Knit_Game_and_Lift Nov 30 '23
This basically sums up the last 5 years of popular comedians for me. Joe Rogan, Chapelle, Bill Burr, etc all just felt like I had to sit there and listen to rich dudes bitch about doing the things that make them rich
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u/Revenacious Nov 30 '23
Yep, Dave especially. It’s sad because he’s one of my favorites and I adore a lot of his material. His comeback special felt like a wonderful return to form and a peek at a more world-wise Dave.
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u/fuckingstupidsdfsdf Dec 01 '23
God damn finally some people who get it... Shit drives me nuts. I love Bill burr and Chapelle, and I can't stand there new stuff cuz they just bitch about being censored. Ngl tjays how I felt about early pc principal episodes (after the first). Lots of crying about PC culture. But it got better as south park always does.
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u/Revenacious Dec 01 '23
Same here. Had to roll my eyes a bunch at a lot of the early PC Principal schlock, but they seemed to hit a decent stride with him as time went on.
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u/jackinsomniac Dec 03 '23
In fairness, it's only these gigantic well-known comedians who were already famous before cancel culture hit it's peak who haven't been cancelled. It's smaller, unknown, up-and-coming guys who don't have anything like an hour long Netflix special yet who are being cancelled.
These giants of comedy hang out at comedy clubs far more than anybody else, they see what's going on better than anybody, that's why they talk about it so much. They see how a lot of clubs started requiring you to submit your entire set for pre-approval before they let you on stage, just in case it might hurt somebody's feelings somewhere, instead of just letting them go try it and allowing hecklers and crowd disapproval handle it like normal. And if you go off script, even if the crowd loved it, you still get banned forever.
All this flies in the face of the spirit of comedy. Many offensive jokes you've probably laughed at and thought nothing of later was because of the delivery, while if you just read the same exact joke written out in text with no inflection it might seem much more horrible. I see nothing wrong with famous comedians defending the right to do offensive comedy. They're doing the opposite of "pulling the ladder up behind them", they're trying to keep the ladder in place for the next guys, throwing down ropes even to help them up.
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u/Live_Carpenter_1262 Dec 01 '23
I don’t think bill burr is the best example. He always expresses indifference about culture wars
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u/FIGHTING_DEMONS_13 Dec 01 '23
This reminds me of that black mirror episodes that ends on the protagonist having a show where he pretends to be angry and go against the “future society”.
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u/bannedhickey257 Nov 30 '23
Canel culture is a thing though.
Just because they have platforms to say what they want doesn't mean they haven't been cancelled from other places
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u/Bromanzier_03 Nov 30 '23
Who’s been cancelled? Everyone that has been “cancelled” is still rich and doing things. Bill Cosby the raper was cancelled and was still doing comedy shows
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u/Telperion83 Dec 01 '23
If a comedian was doing live performances, gets a TV show, loses that TV show for saying something unpopular, and goes back to doing live performances, they were canceled. Their TV show was canceled. That's all it means.
It could apply to commercials, endorsement deals, a radio show... they just had to lose some portion of income and opportunities because of public outcry.
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u/bannedhickey257 Dec 01 '23
It is not meant to be taken 100% seriously. You can still be doing things or have a platform yet have been or been attempted to be cancelled. Its about how big a platform and how popular you still are. We are not talking about exiling people here. Alough the way some people go on thats what they would want.
Cancelling someone doesn't have too be 100 percent successful to still be a thing.
Dave Chappelle was attepted to be cancelled with protests and walk outs by netflix employees. Was it completely successful? No of course not but it was still attempted. They wanted him gone in some capacity atleast.
Other comedian's and public figures have experienced similar to a lesser degee. It's called cancell culture for a reason. It does not literally mean to to cancell someone from existence. It's an attempt to try to to silence them in some capacity. I find it strange thay this needs to be explained in this subreddit of all places.
cancelsouthpark
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u/Revy13 Nov 30 '23
A easy example would be that a bunch of Hollywood actors have been losing jobs because they are Pro-Palestine. People really don’t have the freedom of speech. Acting like it only effects famous people is dumb. There have been students who have lost career opportunities and have been kicked out because they have opinions that aren’t mainstream. South Park tbh has to take a both sides approach to these issues because if they were only against left wing propagandists they would be in way more trouble.
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u/Bromanzier_03 Nov 30 '23
What branch of the government is Hollywood/Schools/South Park?
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u/Acmnin Dec 01 '23
Yes.. canceling from the right and from the powerful as always…
This is the same type of canceling that removed Dixie Chicks cultural significance for speaking out against Bush.
Not at all what right wingers mean when they say cancel culture.
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u/Revy13 Dec 01 '23
Both sides do it. It’s obvious what side is doing more of it these days however.
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u/jackinsomniac Dec 03 '23
Chappelle has. Even with all of his fame and industry connections, he tried getting producers on board for his next special, and everyone said no, except for Netflix. He congratulated Netflix for sticking with him, even when a literal cancel mob started protesting outside their front doors, and a few of them even burst into board meeting.
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u/TenaciousWeen Dec 01 '23
lmao imagine being down voted for pointing out cancel culture. This subreddit is literally the joke of the episode. mfs fragile
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u/Agreeable-Vehicle Nov 30 '23
Don't mean to be rude, but we've heard these kinds of comments hundreds of times.
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u/Big_Scinto420 Nov 30 '23
Same thing they said but I mean it rudely
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u/Punkrocker80 Nov 30 '23
Same thing you both said but over the top aggressively
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u/FatReverend Nov 30 '23
Same thing you all said but sounding like Bobcat Goldthwait.
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u/rgnysp0333 Nov 30 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
I think the episode missed the point entirely. Disney these days is just lazy and boring. Every movie is more or less the same crap they already released a thousand times. Pandering is that sticker they slap on it at the end to try to sell a few extra tickets. I was told that some of the groups are actually happy to be included but imo that doesn't make the movie better.
Edit: Apparently Halle Berry and Halle Bailey are two different people. My age is showing lol. Either way, Little Mermaid was an ugly CGI mess.
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Nov 30 '23
This. The inclusive or diverse label they slap on everything also serves as a cop-out for when the movie gets critised for being poorly made etc, they can just say its because of some ism thats why the movie failed or the critics are just ists
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u/rgnysp0333 Nov 30 '23
Exactly. Shifts the discussion from that movie flat out sucks to you're woke vs racist/sexist/whatever. They turned beloved franchises into mass produced garbage. Fun fact: They released 19 movies in theaters this year. Audiences are done caring and, even if the next movie ends racism in America once and for all, that isn't about to change.
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Nov 30 '23
Yes, movies should be for entertainment, to give people an escape from the real world for an hour or 2, not to bulldoze some groups' political ideology up the viewers ass
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u/rgnysp0333 Nov 30 '23
I mean yeah but... I'm just talking about modern Disney movies being crap. I don't think diversity casting is "bulldozing political ideology", I think it's just a cheap low effort way to cause controversy online and generate a few extra sales. That's it. Just a way to drum up sales for an otherwise dime a dozen cash grab.
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u/diplion Nov 30 '23
So if a movie is going to suck, every actor should be white?
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u/regretfulposts Nov 30 '23
More like, of a movie is going to suck, treat every actor as white because a bad movie is just a bad movie. Bad movie isn't bad because it went woke, it's just bad. There's a stigma going on where a poorly written movie with a non-white actor or a queer actor has some type of an agenda but a poorly written movie with a white straight actor is just a poorly written movie.
Certain grifters tried to act like modern movies sucks because they're trying to shoehorn women and minorities being better than white men, but there are other factors to modern movies being bad. Ant-Man Quantumanium or Thor Love and Thunder sucks not because there's a female character that is better than the main character, but because those movies tried to copy the fun campy tone from Guardians of the Galaxy or Ragnarok, but it can't with it's humor. It kills the tone of the movie along with over use of CG that felt very distracting and boring. He-Man Revelation suck not because they killed off He-Man and have a wahman to be the new MC (until he man showed up again), it because it has poor pacing and it's full of plot holes as if the rule of cool can fix the series. Scott Pilgrim Takes Off has a similar premise and it's way better than He-Man, but people are calling it woke because they have Ramona to be the MC and not Scott. Even though the real issue is that the series heavily rely on the viewers to know the source material and the trailer was just a big ol bait n switch as everyone thought it was an adaptation not a what if show.
Could forcing a minority can cause narrative problem? Sure, but I think there are other problems and the main just happens to be a minority. A lot of people wanted properly written character who happens to be a minority, but no a lot of people can't accept that you also have a poorly written character that happens to be a minority as well. This create a dumb standard that POC, queerfolks, and women have to be perfect or else they will be seen as woke Hollywood pushing an agenda while white male characters can be seen as perfect or badly written without any bias whatsoever.
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u/hamringspiker Nov 30 '23
Just a way to drum up sales for an otherwise dime a dozen cash grab.
Seemingly not working for Disney anymore. All their movies this year, their 100th anniversary have done badly, with several titanic bombs like the Marvels and Wish right now.
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u/qman3333 Nov 30 '23 edited Nov 30 '23
I mean movies are art. They can be whatever the artist wants it to be. Yes they can be entertaining but we shouldnt restrict what art can be or what’s off topic. The real problem is movies are no longer viewed as art by studios (and to be honest most consumers) it’s why indie films are the way to go right now
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u/diplion Nov 30 '23
I enjoy South Park but tbh the show is far from escapist these days. It's very much bulldozing their "enlightened centrist" ideology. I mean look at the discussion that's been happening in the wake of their last special. It's created nothing but "it's woke! vs. it's anti-woke!" debates that were already fucking exhausted before the episode aired.
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u/Punkrocker80 Nov 30 '23
It's obvious why they're doing it. On Facebook to promote the Pinocchio remake they showed an image of the black fairy. Who now only shows up at the start of the movie and never again. And is the only race swapped character in the movie.
At least it got people arguing about racial identity for the sake of a corporate cash grab
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u/regretfulposts Nov 30 '23
I remember when a Peter Pan remake was announced. They race swapped Tinker Bell. I have never seen the trailer, poster, nor any clip of Peter Pan and apparently it came out this year. I only heard of it's existence become someone on Reddit want to talk about racial identity of Think as if that's important enough to start a debate. When will people learn that rants are just free advertisment for big companies because you're essentially promoting movies for them.
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u/diplion Nov 30 '23
I recall lots of people criticizing the little mermaid before it even came out. Maybe the movie did suck for other reasons but a lot of people were saying “stick to the source material!” As a reaction to a single movie poster.
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u/qman3333 Nov 30 '23
Yet those same people never criticize when a character is raceswapped to white regardless if the movie is good or not…. Interesting
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u/UnprofessionalCramp Dec 02 '23
Genuine question, can you give an example of a black character race swapped to white in the past decade?
Sounds like a strawman but I'd love to have some examples. Imagine if they made Blade white, fans would riot.
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u/KushEngine Nov 30 '23
As a reaction to a raceswap*
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u/diplion Nov 30 '23
I've never heard a convincing argument for why "race swapping" is some kind of sin. It doesn't bother me at all.
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u/fancydantheladiesman Dec 01 '23
The only good reason to get mad at race swapping is if It's a real person in a period piece.
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u/Punkrocker80 Nov 30 '23
Ewan McGregor pissed me off with that. Does a vlog talking about all the alleged racism Reva got. He didn't seem to care much about online abuse when Jake Lloyd was targeted. Even Mark Hamill spoke out about the treatment of that young boy and he wasn't even in the damn movie
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u/HandsomeTar Nov 30 '23
It wasn’t cool back then 🤷🏿♂️
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u/Punkrocker80 Nov 30 '23
No it wasn't. And yet he said nothing to defend his young co star. But just as Disney goes on the offensive again, making her race the focal point. I just don't buy the 'racist troll's angle they go with every single time. It's a crutch. And the only one they have
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u/Bionic_Ferir Nov 30 '23
Halle Berry
um brother thats 2 different black chicks like 37 years apart
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u/rgnysp0333 Nov 30 '23
I grew up in the 90s when she was kind of a big deal and have paid little to no attention to pop culture lately. Lesson learned.
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u/Bionic_Ferir Nov 30 '23
No that's all good. They do have UNBELIEVABLEABLY similar names so if you don't keep up with it it can be very confusing
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u/heartsandmirrors Nov 30 '23
That's literally what the episode said. Were you paying attention?
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u/jackinsomniac Dec 03 '23
Yeah, he lost me at the "they didn't cover how it's the same boring crap over and over" part. They literally did. They had various Disney execs say multiple times, "we keep making the same movie over and over, but for some reason now it's not working!"
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u/blindsavior You can suck my clit and balls! Nov 30 '23
Halle Bailey is a different person than Halle Berry
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u/rgnysp0333 Nov 30 '23
Well... Shit. Thanks for letting me know. Point still stands, no actress on Earth could get me to see that pile of crap.
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u/Punkrocker80 Nov 30 '23
Yeah. Halle Berry doesn't get a pass either. She was in Catwoman for God sake
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u/HandsomeTar Nov 30 '23
That’s exactly the point of the episode. If you actually watch the episode and ignore the react videos.
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u/rgnysp0333 Nov 30 '23
I thought the point was Kathleen Kennedy was trying to make everyone female, gay and lame to try to change the world. Or you know, alternate universe Kathleen
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u/HandsomeTar Nov 30 '23
I think the thing that makes most sense is that that’s how a lot of big fans are taking it. Like Star Wars, Indy Jones, classic fans that get very upset with things like the Star Wars sequels. The Cartman version is the version those ppl have in their minds of Kathleen Kennedy.
When they show the real Kathleen Kennedy they talk about the panderstone. They talk about how they got lazy and it made new projects easy. Just do remakes and put minorities / women in it to pander to audiences. Aka real Kathleen does it because of laziness and $, sensationalized Kathleen says put a chick in it and make her gay.
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u/The_real_bandito Nov 30 '23
To be fair, I think all the live action Disney movies were a mess. I saw Aladdin, Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King because those were my favorite movies growing up and didn't like any of them and found them crappy as hell.
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u/B217 Dec 01 '23
I'm never going to get over the fact that Wish was originally going to be a Broadway style musical with a romance between Asha and a boy from the Stars, with a really fucking powerful love song between the two that got cut. But higher ups told the artists that their work was "too Disney" and they needed to dial it back and it resulted in a movie that plays it too safe. I don't think I've ever felt this robbed from a piece of media before, and it's only because they made a good amount of concept art and demo tracks available for the public to see.
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u/Fresh_Ostrich4034 Nov 30 '23
Whatever side you are on they made fun of you. Just move on and let ppl use it however they want
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u/No-Role-429 Nov 30 '23
"...wailing on woke stuff ALL THE TIME..." emphasis mine
My takeaway from that is that it's okay to complain about woke stuff, but there has to be more to your complaint than the wokeness alone. There's woke content that isn't terrible, like Black Panther or Steven Universe. If the diversity is there, but it isn't the point, the woke content can still be good. In the episode, they drew the parallel between the Miles Morales Spiderman (good), versus other blatant pandering
But then there's woke stuff where it's really bad, like Velma. Or anything where a student of color gives a dramatic speech to her English teacher about why the Western canon should be thrown out. Anything where the diverse characters are pretty much mouthpieces for left-wing talking points rather than real people
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u/00ooven Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
And that's the point, all these movies are just woke stuff. We want accuracy and quality, not diversity and inclusion.
PS: Black Panther isn't woke.
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u/Str8Faced000 Dec 01 '23
The problem is that the people who constantly complain about “wokeness” seemingly aren’t able to separate what is “forced diversity” from just characters someone wrote so any non-white/non-cis/non-straight characters existing at all catch the same amount of shit as something like the ghostbusters remake. Which makes them seem like just bad people. Maybe the people who genuinely care about quality should start talking more about quality and less about hating the mere fact that a character is black, female, or gay.
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u/-wak Nov 30 '23
It’s about nuance but it’s pretty obvious who is being made fun of the most
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u/HandsomeTar Nov 30 '23
lol the whole episode is making fun of Kathleen Kennedy. And then at the very end they’re like, those guys that make this their personality are also lame.
And it makes complete sense. You spend the majority of the episode talking about the ppl w all the power that are making something like 30% of what’s being watched. And you spend a little time on the couple of lame YouTubers that don’t have the same influence, but can also be lame.
It’s called the Panderverse for a reason, but ppl are triggered because they like South Park and can’t believe they’re the butt of the joke.
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u/MightBeOnReddit Nov 30 '23
It wasn’t till this pic that I noticed the female chef pic in the back. Pandering at its finest down to the smallest detail.
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u/Mysterious_Alarm_309 Nov 30 '23
I love how south park is on both sides.
But, speaking of, the first image is funny to use as a shitpost, I guess
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u/Wizardwolf1020 Nov 30 '23
It kind of feels like this was thrown in there for the whole “we make fun of both sides” thing and nothing more. Cause practically the entire episode is making fun of woke stuff but then supposedly this one Eric Cartman line is supposed to just equal the scales entirely or invalidate all the people that use this episode as a talking point for anti-woke discussion.
That plus, I kind of got the feeling Matt and Trey were missing WHY all the woke stuff is being put in movies these days. Yes, some of it is laziness and response to racist comments, but there’s also the stupid ESG score stuff too that financially motivates Disney and other companies and businesses to pull this crap.
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u/dnns88 Dec 01 '23
Than you didnt pay attention to the episode, or it means you only understand a message when its directly stated to you. This was the moment where Cartmen had a moment of self relfection.
The whole episode he was the personification of all the people who are obsessed with complaining about media. So obsessed he thinks Kathleen Kennedy is under his bed. So obsessed he sends 1000 letters of hate mail. Cartmen represents the mean spirited anti-woke channels, the people that have lost sight of the legitimate criticism and just call thinks woke at the drop of hat. Your not supposed empathize with Cartmen, he is not the voice of reason. Kyle and Stan are when they say lazy diversity is counter productive and Miles Morales is example how to do it correctly. (Funny enough there is this whole section of anti woke channels that say miles is pandering and he can not be called spiderman. Which proves that for a certain section its not about lazy diversity, its just thinly vailed racism)
But I think if you think that was the only line when they showed the "other side" your media literacy can be a lot better.
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Nov 30 '23
I'd say that if you think all the criticism of Disney and similar companies boils down to "just wailing on woke stuff" then you've been paying too little attention.
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u/emmettpalmer55 Nov 30 '23
But I thought people weren't supposed to agree with Cartman? Does this mean we should wail on wokeness. Cause if so.. I'm in
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u/MsPreposition Nov 30 '23
What was the episode where a character was literally kicking the shit out of a dead horse? They almost need to have that scene in every episode.
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u/MetalixK Nov 30 '23
Thing is, have you seen KK's reaction to the episode? Turn's out Kathleen Kartman was more accurate than they anticipated.
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u/thedrunkentendy Nov 30 '23
Not really. People rail on woke stuff for sure but most of the time, the woke stuff tanks the actual script. So it's not necessarily railing against woke stuff. Just disliking creative changes that make a show or film bad. Expensive CGI filled but objectively superficial.
When it mary sues the protagonist and then she becomes a wet blanket. Similarly, Disney is in the middle of holding L after big L.
Haven't seen many takes on here like the cartman ones mentioned. Other subs for sure, but here most people know south park plays devils advocate with itself all the time. They wouldn't have made the episode of Disney wasn't in the middle of a creative dead period for a while. Is it hate if everyone agrees the product is bad or is it just a bad product?
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u/thedreddnought Nov 30 '23
"Wailing on woke stuff all the time is pretty lazy, too." is such a throwaway, ironically lazy line that was inserted purely to placate the woke crowd that would have flipped at this episode otherwise. The only evidence you need of this is that it's the ONLY line that 90% of redditors talk about, meaning it's the only thing in the episode that was for them.
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u/Revy13 Nov 30 '23
There wouldn’t be a need for anyone to wail on any “woke culture” if there wasn’t DEI initiatives at many companies. There’s a huge cultural push for radical leftists in many different sectors of American society. I mean I just saw something about how they are renaming birds now cause they have offensive names.
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u/sonofkrypton66 Nov 30 '23
It was a light jab but they're clearly calling out Disney for their woke bullshit... to say they were equally calling both sides out is an overstatement LOL
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u/Zealousideal_Week824 Nov 30 '23
I would say that perhaps the reason many right wing only took the criticism of Kathleen kennedy while ignoring the one made on the "anti sjw" is because it is very rare that in pop culture, someone DARES to criticise the ultra pandering of Disney in a major production with budget, professional writing and voice acting.
This is why many of the right wing are so excited, because for once, it's not simply shitting on them. These guys are used to be insulted by the media, it's nothing new for them, but NOW it's not just them. It's also the ultra pandering of Kathleen Kennedy who is under attack.
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u/wonderlandisburning Nov 30 '23
Once again, South Parks deconstructs both sides of an argument and reconstructs a healthy, balanced approach - and both sides of the issue largely points to it and goes "SEE SOUTH PARK SAYS WE'RE RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG"
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u/cupsnak Nov 30 '23
Liberals in this thread are like "I'll allow South Park to exist" lol.
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u/BiDer-SMan Dec 01 '23 edited 26d ago
agonizing live hard-to-find different overconfident square fall foolish quiet memorize
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/ResettisReplicas Nov 30 '23
My question is why are they calling this out now after doing a couple seasons of this exact thing?
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u/Capt-Hereditarias Nov 30 '23
I love how both sides pretend this is all about the other one, and ignore the critic to themselves
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u/hamringspiker Nov 30 '23
Pretty reaching to compare that one line to the whole episode shitting on woke stuff though lol. They clearly weren't made fun of nearly as much.
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u/AVeryHairyArea Nov 30 '23
South Park has always made fun of both sides. Consider the "too" that everyone is ignoring, lol.
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u/Cpt_phudge_off Nov 30 '23
Nah, it's just most people understand that Disney started this problem, so that is why they focus on that. South Park can throw a "both sides" bone out there but it's pretty irrelevant to the overall discussion.
Disney doesn't pay people to shit talk their content. The people who pay Disney got mad and stopped buying tickets and then gave that money to people who shit talked Disney. It's not complicated and truthfully it isn't a "both sides" issue. It's just people paying for what they want to watch.
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u/runefar Nov 30 '23
Tbh i think part of it is more that with episodes like this though you are right, they have too often made it less clear than they should that they really are making fun of both sides and that is more what annoys some people. That other people will be motivared by this not feel it is meant to be comedy of them too. Tbh though obviousily though there are some episodes worse at this and this was a fair topic but i can kinda get when it seems like they are too close to what we have all seen spammed on the internet
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Nov 30 '23
As usual south park plays both sides… also not enough people are talking about the other story in the episode! Thats actually references the first season where Kyle’s dad talks about how how he doesn’t know how to do shit.
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u/ACuddlyVizzerdrix Nov 30 '23
They ignored the part where the boys realize the lady Cartman is still and asshole (still Cartman) who only cares about themselves, basically they look different but they're still the same person
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u/treasonodb Nov 30 '23
south park has done this since it's inception. they shit on EVERYONE. if you don't see them trashing both sides then chances are you are locked in on only one side of the spectrum.
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u/GypsyHarlow Dec 01 '23
Okay... but what, or who, the fuck is Cartman talking about? On what level in Hollywood is anti sjw flooding that market? Any person who makes anti woke material are almost, hell, entirely online by mostly independent content creators.
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u/Cautious-Intern9612 Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
Can we all just agree tho that them releasing this right before the marvels released was a pro troll move also you guys are really missing the "too" part lol acting like this one line wasn't added specifically to appease the woke crowd while 99% of the other jokes were dunking on them
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u/Tooldfrthis Dec 01 '23
Are we actually pretending South Park doesn't shit on both sides of the political spectrum?
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u/CHADSMAG Nov 30 '23
Both sides seem to think the other missed the point, but they’re both the butt of the joke
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u/w3dl0ck Dec 01 '23
Look at YT and most of them just laser focused the shit out of "lMaO SoWtHuH PuRk wOaStS wOkE sHiTes!!!1!11!1"
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u/Arny520 Nov 30 '23
People forget that the whole point of South Park is that it takes the piss out of everyone and every side, but ultimately has a rational message. It's almost a voice of reason