r/politics • u/bustersnuggs5011 Pueblo • 4d ago

Biden’s Family Tells Him to Keep Fighting as They Huddle at Camp David Soft Paywall

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/30/us/politics/biden-debate-anxious-democrats.html
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u/Mutex70 4d ago

I don't care what Biden's family wants.

I don't care what Biden wants.

I care what America wants.

And so should Biden.

The fact that he doesn't is what concerns me.

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u/PhilosopherDave 4d ago

Exactly! This is a farce. This is about the people.

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u/GomezFigueroa Florida 4d ago

Then who is this person America wants?

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u/porniopia 4d ago

It doesn't matter. We have to stop picking favorites. That's what gets Democrats in these messes consistently.

Get the 5-15 most electable Democrats we have to go on a media blitz between now and the convention. Then take the 5-7 best and host a debate just before the convention. Relentlessly poll Americans to see who is the most popular. Then they all get to make their final case at the convention and the delegates vote on who they think will beat Trump.

Debating the merits of any one person now makes no sense. We didn't get a proper primary because almost nobody ran. Doesn't make you popular to run against the incumbent.

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u/sir_mrej Washington 4d ago

It DOES matter

The fact that you can't say ONE NAME is why it won't work

A rando in Ohio won't know who the FUCK ELSE runs, if Biden steps down

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u/porniopia 3d ago

You literally just want me to say a name so you can scoff at any I pick for not having as much recognition at Biden. It's just a bad faith argument. No thanks.

I could say plenty of names, but I'm not picking the president, so it doesn't matter what name I choose. Any name said now holds no importance. You have to put them through the process first. We'll see what name recognition and appeal is like once we get to the convention after they've been out there for seven weeks in the spotlight first.

It's such a silly argument. Obama had no name recognition when he started. Hillary had insane name recognition and was the front-runner in the polls. But Obama beat her. If we followed your logic, Obama would've dropped out immediately.

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u/sir_mrej Washington 3d ago

Hey you ALMOST got the point! You were so very close.

It's not a bad faith argument. The moment you fucking pick a SPECIFIC name, people will 100% complain about that specific person. Because specific people have specific faults and strengths and weaknesses.

A 'generic Dem' could win in november, but there's no such thing. So pick a fucking name.

Newsom? California liberal

Whitmer? Who?

Pritzker? Corrupt Illinois politician

See? It's super easy to poke holes in anyone you would choose. How do you think they'll actually fare with the public?

You talk about Obama and Hillary. That was part of a PRIMARY, which we didn't have. Yep, if we could go back in time, we could try and convince the DNC and Biden to not run again and have an actual primary. But we're here. We can't.

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u/porniopia 3d ago

Oooh, oooh, let me play:

Biden? Senile

Cool, did I do it right?

Fact of the matter is that Biden is a bad candidate right now. The majority of his own base have said they don't want him to run and think he's mentally unfit.

He's also tarnished from issues like inflation and high prices (due to corporate greed, not him, but it affects him nonetheless) as well as his handling of Israel-Palestine which has seen a lot of Arab Americans and young voters say they won't vote for him. Over 100,000 voters in just one swing state showed up to the polls during the primary just to cast an "undecided" protest vote.

All of this and the guy can't even campaign properly.

We would get a frenzy of media attention during the entire process because it's something that hasn't happened in over 50 years. That would remove the spotlight off Trump and we'd get a fresh face out of it. That's good.

I'm not a fortune teller. Maybe Biden wins, maybe he loses. I can't tell you who the right candidate to take his place because that's impossible other than "it's whomever emerges from the process." But maybe that person loses too. We just don't know. Maybe Trump is destined to win no matter who we run. It's impossible to say.

But sticking with the "safe" option when that safe option is a guy with baggage who can't campaign, his approval numbers are underwater, people are casting protest votes in significant numbers, and now people think he's mentally unfit... that's not safe.

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u/sir_mrej Washington 2d ago

Trump is a horrible person and candidate.

Biden is too old and is a bad candidate.

Any other Democratic candidate has more negatives than Biden.

None of this is great.

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u/porniopia 2d ago edited 2d ago

It's not great but I don't know that you're right about other candidates having "more" negatives. I think they just have different negatives. That's the key. Nobody is perfect. Nobody comes in on a white horse and saves us. But Biden's negatives are really bad.

Seriously, just think about it: if you were running his campaign and this was the discussion everybody was having post-debate, what would be your plan of action? Mine would be to get my guy out in hour-long press conferences, interviews the next night, arrange a televised town hall, appear on popular podcasts, etc. and prove that he's fit. The only reason I wouldn't do those things is if I was afraid he'd just fuck it up again.

So ask yourself: why isn't Biden out there right now? Since the debate, he did a 20-min teleprompter set at a rally, a teleprompter speech at a fundraiser, and a five-minute teleprompter speech to the nation where he refused to take any questions. He currently has exactly one interview planned for Friday (over a week later!) with a friendly journalist.

This is not a winning strategy. Even if the debate never happened, we are going to lose if that's the best he's got.

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u/sir_mrej Washington 2d ago

I 100% agree that the DNC fucked up earlier by not telling Biden not to fucking run

I 100% agree that the Biden Campaign is fucking it up now (has it EVER been a great campaign? Who is RUNNING this thing?)

Sigh.

I appreciate the discussion! Thank you. All of this sucks and I hate all of it.

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u/seewead3445 3d ago

Your example ends when you focus on Obama having an entire primary season to prove himself again established names. These persons would have, at best, 2 months to sell themselves to Democrats alone and then need to go national to attract swing voters and independents?

All while Trump gets free air time to push his bs and just pick off each one as they come up and most likely win with his base of 30-40% still reliably showing up to vote for him while the Dem choice is made but support is splintered leading to low turnout and a Trump win.

Pay close attention to who is telling you to throw away Biden. It’s mostly the media bloc that is pushing this narrative. If Biden was such an easy W to go against then why would they want him to step aside? Republicans and media are the ones mainly telling us to throw him away, but most of the Core Dem leadership and base are saying stay the course. Not saying Bidens performance and age are positives, just saying be wary of the people delivering the message we are to follow on who to support. No calls from the same people for McConnell to step down when he froze twice on tv. No editorial smack downs calling for Trump to step down after Jan 6, Jean Carroll, or felony conviction. But one off night and all of these same entities come crashing down on Biden as the unfit candidate when the other guy spent the same debate saying a lie every 1.5 minutes?

Give me a fucking break.

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u/porniopia 3d ago

Trump, McConnell and the rest of the fascist party aren't dropping out just because the NYT and WaPo tell them to. But say the media outlets do it anyway. Then what? Trump and McConnell get shamed out of office? Please, spare me. How many times have people called for Trump to step down and he just ignored it? C'mon. These guys don't care. The NYT and others absolutely made the points over and over again that Trump lied his entire way through and isn't fit for office.

Trump is getting free air time now by simply playing Joe Biden's actual, unedited performance. Biden can't campaign. The easiest way to dispel these fears would be to have him do town halls, interviews on TV, podcasts, unscripted events, etc. But the guy doesn't even do press conferences, man. It's been like this his entire presidency, but now it's a much bigger problem because we need him out there actually campaigning for president. Biden doing a 20-min set off a teleprompter in the middle of the day is not reassuring. The bar is so low for him and he's still not clearing it.

Also, while you're right that the core Dem leadership are saying stay the course (of course they would be in public), you're wrong about the base. Polls for the last two years have said an overwhelming majority doesn't want Biden to run again, that he's too old, that he's mentally unfit, and those numbers have only grown since the debate.

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u/sir_mrej Washington 3d ago

Trump isn't mentally fit either. Do you agree or disagree?

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u/porniopia 3d ago

Trump isn't just mentally unfit. He's a complete fascist narcissist. Even if he were fit, it wouldn't matter. He should still be barred from office for a host of reasons and arguably in prison.

Me thinking Biden is a bad candidate does not equate to me thinking Trump is good or something.

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u/sir_mrej Washington 3d ago

Cool so why aren't we yelling at the news to also say Trump is unfit?

Replace em both! July 4th miracle!

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u/theravenousR 4d ago

Whitmer. Don't overthink it. She's one of a handful of more well-known and, importantly, well-liked Dems. She'd bring home Michigan and likely PA and WI as well. She's a woman, which is important to the Box Checkers.

No one likes Harris, even most Dems. Newsom is liked by the left (because they don't know him), but would play perfectly into Reps' "coastal elite" label and lose the Rust Belt. Also has baggage. I've heard good things about Beshear, but he's less-known. Booker should be fine, but he never seemed to gain traction for whatever reason. Still, better than Biden.

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u/sir_mrej Washington 4d ago

I honestly never heard of Whitmer until this week.

Call me crazy, call me a liar, call me whatever you want.

Sure, I would vote for Whitmer if Biden dropped. But a LOT of people would NOT know who that was and would be confused.

Biden has name recognition, which is halfway there, for MOST of this country.

Booker won't get anywhere.

Newsom is my 2028 choice, but he WILL be painted as a California liberal.

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u/theravenousR 3d ago

Not sure why I'd accuse you of lying? So you haven't heard of her, no big deal. Most of Biden's existing support (and by most I mean nearly all) is Never Trumpers. Like I see posted here all day, "I'd vote for the ghost of a dead toaster over Trump" or some such shit.

So I would argue the new candidate would maintain that base of support, but have more room to grow. Because there are people outside of the extremely far left Reddit bubble who aren't so keen on voting for a corpse. In fact, I'd say anyone but Biden is a step up, with the exception of known-but-disliked candidates like Harris and Newsom (he's not liked among Midwesterners, that is).

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u/Moist-Pickle-2736 4d ago

Right now? Just more options.

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u/TurquoiseOwlMachine 4d ago

By the numbers? Not a Trump/Biden rematch. That’s something the Dems could supply.

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u/InclinationCompass 4d ago

Someone competent. Not these two. There are over 300M Americans so there’s got to be one. But we keep getting incompetent candidates to choose from as if American democracy is so great. Three straight elections.

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u/fl3xtra 4d ago

people on reddit are rarely the voice of America. this has been the case for paul/bernie etc..

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u/Mutex70 4d ago

So if people on Reddit aren't the voice of America, and people on the news aren't the voice of America and people in entertainment aren't the voice of America and YouTubers aren't the voice of America, then I have some questions:

  • Who exactly is "the voice of America"?
  • Why are they being so damn quiet?
  • How do we know what they want if they don't say anything?

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u/fl3xtra 4d ago

The ones that vote.

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u/Mutex70 4d ago

And how do you know how the "ones that vote" currently feel about the President?

The primaries basically ended months ago, when Phillips withdrew.

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u/dmanbiker Arizona 3d ago

Lots of undecided voters are not Democrats and this non-democrat thinks Biden did a million times better than Trump.

One guy sounded a little old and the other guy told almost 100% insane lies and also sounded old. If Biden can keep his messaging clear going forward, the debate is only a huge deal if democrats keep blowing it up into one.

I wish there was a candidate better than Biden, but it's waaay too late to switch. The only chance for that is if Biden literally dies and they can run on his memory.

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u/wwaxwork 4d ago

Cool so what are the alternatives. You have your hissy fit, he quits. Who replaces him that can beat Trump? So I'm going to assume what you want is Trump to win.

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u/Content-Ad3065 4d ago

He won the primary

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u/rojotoro2020 4d ago

There were no primaries.

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u/stfsu 4d ago

Everyone is leaving this out, even the uncommitted votes in protest for Gaza weren’t what people said they were going to be

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u/ishtar_the_move 4d ago

His family seems to think it is their throne.

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u/johnnybagels 4d ago

Big gretch

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u/matali 4d ago

POTUS is bigger than Biden's legacy

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u/100clocc 4d ago

after hearing from democrats what a good person he is, I'm glad he's showing his true colors and they are stuck with him.

too bad so many of them ere distracted by cheetos and mean tweets