r/politics The Wall Street Journal 4d ago

I oversee the WSJ’s Washington bureau. Ask me anything about last night’s debate, where things stand with the 2024 election and what could happen next. AMA-Finished

President Biden’s halting performance during last night’s debate with Donald Trump left the Democratic Party in turmoil. You can watch my video report on the debate and read our coverage on how party officials are now trying to sort through the president’s prospects. 

We want to hear from you. What questions do you have coming out of the debate? 

What questions do you have about the election in general? 

I’m Damian Paletta, The Wall Street Journal’s Washington Coverage Chief, overseeing our political reporting. Ask me anything.

All stories linked here are free to read.

proof: https://imgur.com/a/hBBD6vt

Edit, 3:00pm ET: I'm wrapping up now, but wanted to say a big thanks to everyone for jumping in and asking so many great questions. Sorry I couldn't answer them all! We'll continue to write about the fallout from the debate as well as all other aspects of this unprecedented election, and I hope you'll keep up with our reporting. Thanks, again.

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u/ehunke 4d ago

I have a bit of a facisnation every election watching the 3rd parties and independents...want to know why they don't do well? here is what we had in 2020 to pick from other then Biden and Trump: Howie Hawkins, Green party founder who was once a promising opposition candidate who has become a bit of a crybaby with a "its not fair" campaign. We had some nutcase Libertarian who thought the answer to our problems was defund everything and leave everyone to fend for themselves with for profit pubilc services. From there we had Don Blakenship with the constitution party thanks but no thanks, and a handful of far left and far right nutcases with no qualifications. I am a Biden fan, I will happily vote for him again. If you want another option, you have to get one of the minor parties to put together a platform, and get on the ballot everywhere, actual engage the voting public and above all that...get someone who people could actually see as President and make sure its someone who can actually do the job.

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u/MaximumPotate 4d ago

The only way a third party ever stands a chance, is if we get ranked choice voting.  Since we don't have that, the two parties have too much power in and over our system of government that no third party candidate has or will ever stand a chance without an alteration to the rules that allows for it. 

 Our politics are ruled by a duopoly, which is only slightly better than a monopoly, which under democracy is almost effectively the same thing as a monarchy.

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u/Beginning_Cupcake_45 4d ago

The third parties need to more seriously start at the lower offices and build their way up. The Republican Party was a third party once. They didn’t just come out the gate with Lincoln and win everything. These other parties need to run for dog catcher and everything else rather than emerging every 4 years for the top spot and then basically quietly going away.

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u/ehunke 4d ago

No offense but that kind of thinking is what is preventing it, is every time anyone says 'lets take a serious shot at this' someone else says 'the system is rigged, we can't". Ross Perot did get an electoral vote and thats all it takes is electoral votes which come from getting the popular vote in a state. What stops a sizable number of people from voting 3rd party is voter outreach and candidate selection...if the Republicans can't find a better option then Trump and while I do like Biden I do admit as a Democrat our other options suck...its not impossible

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u/MaximumPotate 4d ago edited 4d ago

No, man, I wish you were right.  I wish the voting reality was one where we can change the minds of enough people to give a third party candidate a shot.  Unfortunately, your position ignored the billions of dollars both parties have spent on infrastructure.  All the money spent by the rich to control the major media organizations.  All the narrative shaping stories repeated across every TV in America giving everyone a version of reality where either the Dems or Republicans are the the good guys or the bad guys. 

 What a third party has to contend with are overwhelming odds, and I understand the frustration that says "With this corrupt fuck and the walking corpse, a third party might actually have a shot", but two giant money machines with corporate ties would NEVER allow that to happen.  The only way a third party can gain power, in our system, is by having access to a competitive amount of money, which will come from corporate and rich interests, to achieve their purposes. 

 Yet the groups that could give to a third party, have already picked a side, and paid the other side as well, so they have influence regardless of the outcome.  Our political system is ruled by money, not the people, and it's been shaped that way through legislation and supreme court decisions.  There is no overcoming that without systemic change. 

Ranked choice voting means that you can vote for your candidate, but if your candidate loses you basically have backup candidates. C1-Dem, C2-Rep, C3-3rd party.  So you could vote. 

 C3/C1.  Meaning, you vote third party, but if your candidate loses, your vote goes to the democratic candidate.  This is done in other, modern democracies, and it's done in Alaska, perhaps some other states as well. 

 So imagine, a vote for a third party, but that vote doesn't effectively toss your vote in the gutter and allow the lesser of two evils to rule.  This gives us actual choice. 

What you're saying ignores the political reality of our system of government, and all the efforts and money spent to perpetuate the two party system we are ruled by.  Ranked choice voting is happening, and as support for it grows, third parties become viable and the two party system becomes vulnerable.  

 We can't just magically change the fact that two parties have influence, control, power, and money.  We can't change the reality that a vote for a third party has been a vote thrown in the trash.  That has always been true.  It will always be true, unless it isn't.  Ranked choice voting gets rid of that reality, and allows for a third party candidate.  It's the only path I know of that is happening, and does work.

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u/robocoplawyer 4d ago

Third parties don’t have effective strategies to win elections though. They essentially threaten the 2 parties (usually Democratic) to push them to adopt certain policy positions otherwise they’ll syphon votes, instead of actually providing a viable alternative for people to vote for. They get themselves on the ballot in important swing states and punish the targeted candidate for not taking a stronger stance on whatever single issue pet policy they’re focused on. Sure it allows people an option to voice their dissatisfaction but it’s not a viable winning strategy.

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u/MaximumPotate 4d ago

That's definitely how third parties work in our current system, but if we make enough small changes, eventually we've got a new system where this is no longer true.  Things like the popular vote interstate compact agreement, which threatens the electoral college, are doable and in the process of being done.  Same thing for ranked choice voting.

We build up enough small wins, and we effectively have a new system.  It just takes a frustratingly long time, and the supreme court is an active threat to everything, so it does appear hopeless.  But giving up is the only way we certainly lose.

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u/Redditributor 4d ago

Perot could have won if he hadn't dropped out and come back

Nader didn't want to win but wanted to change the system