r/inthenews • u/Advanced_Drink_8536 • May 27 '24

Donald Trump rejected by Libertarians, gets less than 1% of vote article

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-rejected-libertarians-less-one-percent-vote-presidential-election-1904870
29.3k Upvotes

88% Upvoted

2.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

101

u/PnPaper May 27 '24

Makes it even more wild that he has to come in and court them.

His internal numbers must be horrible.

71

u/TheLegendTwoSeven May 27 '24

I think they assumed this would be a layup, and that they’d overwhelmingly back him. Which is exactly what I assumed would happen.

But libertarians tend to be very ideological, so it makes sense that they won’t go along with him. Also there’s the whole thing about him wanting to dismantle democracy and become a dictator, and I was surprised that libertarians recognized and cared about that.

48

u/Pilsner33 May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24

Democracy is not perfect. It's the best that we have.

Anyone who is truly "moderate" cannot objectively look at the comparison between Trump and Biden and come away with the opinion that Biden is worse or equal to Trump.

Trump is so clearly an extremist and willing to sell anything for personal profit. He literally asked the oil CEOs this month to "just give me $1 Billion dollars" so when (note: not if) he wins, he will remove all oil regulations.

Trump is not a legitimate option. We had a minor Monarchy under his single term (what other President hired all of their children??).

The Libertarian Chair also disqualified him because he failed to fill out paperwork required. RFK did the paperwork. It's just exhibit 9,534 that Trump gives zero fucks about actual Democracy. He doesn't think the rules apply to him. He doesn't want an election. He wants an insurrection and "absolute power and immunity". The fact that the SCOTUS is even entertaining his delusions is dangerous to every single person on Planet Earth. The position of President is extremely influential and powerful to life (human and the natural ecosystem).

13

u/-Dartz- May 27 '24

The fact that the SCOTUS

Just more evidence that you really absolutely cannot rely on uncontrolled institutions.

Scotus is corrupt, cops are corrupt, politicians are corrupt, when will people finally grow the balls to actually decide the limitations of these institutions themselves, instead of relying on "representatives", whose elections always just boil down to the lesser evil.

7

u/karmavorous May 27 '24

Which makes is so much scarier that we are about to get a decision from SCOTUS that Presidents are unaccountable to laws.

I am so tired of this Conservative fantasy that the only way to enforce the law is to constantly break the law. This is the argument SCOTUS is pondering. And they don't want to make it official while Biden is still in office. They want to declare Trump unaccountable on Day 1 (coincidentally the day he says he wants to be dictator) and not a day sooner.

The whole idea that if the president can't break the law, he can't enforce the law, is a fucking rightwing fantasy instilled in them by their diseased culture of cop shows and Jack Ryan franchise. Its not something that was accepted as fact prior to the 1990s. Part of conservatism used to be that nobody is above the law, even president. And I bet there's soundbites of a lot of Republicans saying that when Bill Clinton was getting impeached and disbarred for lying about a blowjob.

2

u/Mistform05 May 27 '24

I’m left leaning moderate and republicans haven’t had a candidate worth a damn since I’ve been able to vote.

2

u/Cuchullion May 27 '24

I've always said that if the Republicans fielded a candidate worth voting for I may consider voting for them.

Unfortunately the only one that's come close is Arnie Vinnick from West Wing.

1

u/DexJedi May 27 '24

True that democracy is not perfect, but the US really does it's best to make it look like the worst. Two grandpa's to choose from of which one is a wannabe dictator and the other (the least bad) truly showing the signs of age. There are other types of democracy systems you know. And every type has its drawbacks of course. Not that you could change that right now, just felt the need to note.

1

u/Jason1143 May 27 '24

Democracy is the worst form of government except for every other form of government.

13

u/OakAstronaut May 27 '24

It's sobering to see anyone on that side not fall in line with the whole emperor has no clothes lunacy maga lives off of.

4

u/CldStoneStveIcecream May 27 '24

Can’t have unfettered capitalism without capitalism. 

3

u/Flat_Suggestion7545 May 27 '24

Why would you assume that Libertarians would back him?

2

u/WeAteMummies May 27 '24

Because 10+ years ago someone said "libertarians are just republicans that want to smoke weed" and no one on reddit has bothered learning what libertarians actually believe since then.

1

u/TheLegendTwoSeven May 27 '24

Because they’re “fiscally conservative and socially liberal.” Trump’s only major piece of legislation was his tax law, and since he’s not really a Christian he doesn’t seem to care about gay marriage and whatnot.

Also, there have been numerous senators (Ron Paul, Rand Paul) who’ve identified as libertarians, but all of them are republicans. I’m not aware of anyone in Congress, or any governor, who is a libertarian but runs as a democrat. My perception has been that most libertarian politicians are just Republicans who don’t want to ban gay marriage and abortion.

I assumed that most libertarian voters were the same way, but I’m glad that it seems I was wrong.

2

u/Flat_Suggestion7545 May 27 '24

Except that his tax law sunsetted for anyone who isn’t super rich and his spending was profligate.

Also, while Trump himself might not be a real Christian, he panders to them. Including his comments on abortion and homosexuality.

Rand Paul never claimed to be a libertarian, but a constitutional conservative.

His father Ron was a Congressperson, not a Senator. You are also confusing the Republicans of Ron’s time with the current MAGA infused Republicans.

There are Libertarian Democrats, but they don’t gain much traction.

1

u/-Ch4s3- May 27 '24

No one other than Rand Paul thinks Rand Paul is a libertarian anymore. He used to be pretty good on criminal justice reform and pretty anti-war.

1

u/Lots42 May 27 '24

I used to think Libertarians were just Republicans who liked pot.

Now, after they actually booed him? Who knows.

6

u/Icy-Strawberry-4083 May 27 '24

Say what you will about libertarians, they are certainly independent thinkers. And no one who can be described as a “thinker” is voting Trump.

0

u/[deleted] May 27 '24

[deleted]

4

u/Yonder_Zach May 27 '24

The only people with “trump derangement syndrome” are the morons purposely supporting that treasonous sex offender.

1

u/mark8992 May 27 '24

The only definition of TDS that stands up to critical thinking is that anyone who is willing to vote for someone so clearly unfit to hold the office must be deranged.

1

u/bfodder May 27 '24

I agree, but not for the reasons you think.

1

u/Icy-Strawberry-4083 May 27 '24

Explain to me which words you need help with.

1

u/tayroarsmash May 27 '24

I would never expect anything at all from Libertarians. They’re contrarians and trying to predict their behavior alters it.

1

u/DandyLamborgenie May 27 '24

I think people forget that Libertarians aren’t the ones you see on Fox News or Reddit. I honestly think it’s propaganda to make a 3rd party seem bad, because most libertarians just want less government in their lives, a good economy, and people to live and let live. If you learned about this political angle without all the stupid shit that makes it to the “mainstream”, which is actually very easy, then what’s so bad about that? I’m a libertarian because, yeah, murder bad, but you’re telling me if we didn’t write it down into law, that we’d just let it be? Fine, fine, at least that’s a simple and clear law that anyone can agree on, but what about the literal thousands that get passed in unreadably long bills? Thats my real beef. I think realistically society would be fine with like 20 laws, and everything else is just nonsense to keep the political system slow, confusing, and purposefully incompetent. The irony is the law doesn’t stop the worst offenders. Ever. They make the laws. Whistleblowers die, the planet is polluted, political corruption is increasingly blatant. The law stops poor people 99% of the time. It’s weaponized legislation. Always has been. I’m not libertarian because I want anarchy, I’m realistic enough to understand that would be a nightmare. But we need to bring democracy back to lawmaking. We need to untangle this mess and hopefully one day have a concise and fair law system, but right now we live in a country where a citizen can be arrested for a crime they didn’t know existed, and an officer doesn’t even need to know if that crime exists in most states to make an arrest. And that’s just one of a dozen example of how this system doesn’t work. Why should the government decide on abortion at all? In a perfect world that wouldn’t be anyone’s business but your own.

2

u/TheLegendTwoSeven May 27 '24

I disagree with the libertarian ideology (I like good regulations and public services, I don’t think unfettered access to firearms is a good thing, etc,) but it’s good that they’re not all just Alex Jones ranting about UFO lizardmen.

I love Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, I don’t trust businesses not to be racist and thus I love the fact that it’s illegal for them to deny service to minorities (even though I’m not a minority) and for the most part my views are mainstream Democrat.

One of the big differences between me and libertarians is that they want a minimized government, whereas I want a sizable, equitable, and efficient one. In 2024 the main thing I care about is preserving our democracy.

1

u/canwegetanfinchat May 27 '24

As someone that is libertarian (not affiliated with the party, just ideologically), I like some of his work on taxes, peace through strength diplomacy, and his work to end the war in Afghanistan. That stuff aside, I’m not a fan. He is without the moral and practical qualifications for the office.

I’d like to see someone fix illegal immigration by making legal immigration a practical option to those who either share our nations values, or are willing to live and let live.

1

u/TheLegendTwoSeven May 27 '24

The unspoken bit about the Republican mantra of “just immigrate legally” is that very few Republicans would support allowing unlimited numbers of legal Mexican immigrants into the country. If it was as simple as that, a deal would’ve been worked out long ago.

I think the mainstream Republican ideal would be to have almost no Mexican immigration (i.e. only those with multi-million net worths, advanced degrees in STEM, or the paramours of Congressmen) but our economy relies on this additional labor. I’d prefer it if there was an orderly legal process for very large numbers of Mexicans to immigrate, but that’s politically impossible and I think most Americans would oppose it.

1

u/CurrencyAlarming1099 May 27 '24

What do you mean, if anyone rejects authoritarians, it's libertarians. They're ideological opposites.

1

u/TheLegendTwoSeven May 27 '24

Most people seem to exclusively care about the short term economy (which is actually doing well) and they take our democracy for granted.

If that’s not the case for libertarians then kudos to them for that. I hope they don’t vote for Trump.

2

u/CurrencyAlarming1099 May 27 '24

Most people don't even have the slightest grasp of any of the issues. For example, most people believe "Inflation is happening now and Biden is president now so he's responsible".

The money printing that is causing current inflation happened during Trump's administration (and before but there was a huge bump during the pandemic).

Not to mention the fact that the president (ostensibly at least) doesn't control the fed or the money supply so his policies don't have any direct effect on inflation.

But good luck explaining this to 99% of the population.

1

u/TheBlueBlaze May 27 '24

He might have been able to pick them up in 2016, when he was seen as a charismatic unknown quantity capitalist promising the world.

But anyone wanting more than empty promises, nebulous goals, and comforting lies can look at his record and see he has almost nothing in common with them.

1

u/alistairtenpennyson May 27 '24

I think he was worried about JFK Jr. eating into his percentage in battleground states and wanted to shore up his libertarian/third party bona fides. Clearly it more than backfired.

1

u/colganc May 27 '24

Did they care? How did Trump even make it on stage? How were there any people on stage trying to promote voting for him? I acknowledge many in the crowd cared and didn't seem to support Trump, but there were enough that he and some of his supporters were on stage. Shameful.

1

u/Loreweaver15 May 27 '24

The thing about libertarians is that their principles are often weird or insane but a substantial portion of them are actually pretty principled and not people who'd support an authoritarian monster like Trump.

1

u/Lots42 May 27 '24

I have yet to understand what the libertarian position -is-. At all.

1

u/jbawgs May 28 '24

At its core it's pretty simple, government should be as small as it can be while ensuring a set of rights for it's citizens, and that's all it should do.

There's a ton of debate about what rights those are, but coalesces around some generalities. Everyone should be able to do, say, or own whatever they want that does not actively constitute a violation of those same rights upon someone else. Key word is actively.

For instance, some may say it would be insane to allow private citizens to own a tank. A libertarian may say it's insane that the government or your neighbors get a say in what you can own. If a tank owner violates someone else's rights with the tank, that's not a tank ownership problem, it's an individual violating the social contract, and the means are irrelevant.

Same with everything. Drugs. Bodily autonomy.

Abortion is a hot topic. Some say it violates a person's inviolable rights to force them to house a fetus in their body. Some say it violates the fetus's rights to pursue life liberty & etc. most seem to agree that it should be between an individual and their dr.

Put horse drugs up your butt while pouring fet in your eyeballs, that's your body, do whatever, so long as you don't do things like deprive someone else of their life or property while doing so.

Taxation as theft is fun. Most seem to agree that all taxation is immoral as the government is depriving someone of the fruit of their own labors, but also agree that there is a minimum amount of taxation that is necessary in order to achieve the goal stated in paragraph 1. Some others believe that there should be no taxation at all and no government at all, and that you either protect your own rights and build your own roads and do your own schooling, or you pay some other independent and completely voluntary person or collective to do them for you. Like subscribing to the fire department, or schools, or highways.

The details of how this all would work will vary from one libertarian to the next. As soon as I hit the "post" button, two libertarians will silently nod their heads at this, and eight will appear in the comments to explain that everything I just said is wrong and dumb.

The most common trait amongst libertarians seems to be contrarianism, purity tests and infighting, which puts them closer to the left in spirit, as conservatives are rarely capable of standing on their principles or of the self reflection necessary to engage in those activities.

1

u/Lots42 May 28 '24

Horse drugs instead of the covid vaccine violates the social contract because covid is contagious.

1

u/jbawgs May 28 '24

Thats a hot topic too. Mostly what I've seen is people saying yeah, obviously wearing a mask is the smart move but the government shouldn't be getting involved because of bodily autonomy. People who don't want to be exposed can opt not to be in public, or wear their own mask. Additionally, that individuals and businesses can set and enforce their own policies on their own property. McDonald's is free to refuse access to it's property to anyone for any reason, because it's their property. If the reason is because they want you to wear a mask, cool. It's their property. If McDonald's says weebs aren't allowed in, that's cool too. It's the government mandates that are the problem, as it's seen as a violation of their natural rights.

Their conception of a social contract is not typical of either left or right's typical formulations. A lot of conservatives will pay lip service to some libertarian values, and there is some overlap, but a conservative would never say it should be legal for McDonald's to require anyone who walks in the door to say a prayer to Satan before ordering. Many libertarians would probably say "McDonald's is free to require that of people on their property, and I'm free not to go there"

1

u/Lots42 May 28 '24

Conservatives want to force prayers to JESUS, not Satan.

1

u/jbawgs May 28 '24

I'm not talking about conservatives. I'm talking about libertarians and how they differ from conservatives.

1

u/jbawgs May 28 '24

Oh it was vaccines not masks. But the same applies. Bodily autonomy.

1

u/Lots42 May 28 '24

I don't understand what you're getting at. My point is, when it comes to Covid, bodily autonomy is absolutely not relevant. It cannot be. It morally should not be. Mask up and get a vaccine.

1

u/jbawgs May 28 '24

I'm not arguing for or against any of this. I'm just telling you what the libertarian position is. You think it's immoral to go out without a vaccine. They think it's immoral for the government to require them to take medicine they don't want. They think it's immoral for the government to do ANYTHING except protect property rights between citizens, and protect property rights from foreign aggressors.

15

u/whoinvitedthesepeopl May 27 '24

This was a huge tell that things don't look good. This also got lots of media play of him being an a** to the right wing fringe of politics.

-1

u/Smooth-Bag4450 May 27 '24

Keep telling yourself that, it does NOTHING to beat him in November. The media was coping with Trump's popularity a ton in 2016 saying he was desperate, would never win, got booed, etc.

Saying this stuff because you don't like him doesn't hurt him at all, it just gives your side a false sense of security and righteousness.

1

u/Axin_Saxon May 27 '24

Awww, adorable. You think you’re the main character.

0

u/Smooth-Bag4450 May 27 '24

Oof you tried

1

u/thenewyorkgod May 27 '24

His internal numbers must be horrible.

unfortunatley, they aren't. He leads in every major national poll and in every major swing state. I know polls can be crap, but this is very worrysome.

1

u/Arch00 May 27 '24

No he doesnt lmao

1

u/Monthani May 27 '24

I think Biden is up in Michigan but that's about it

1

u/TheOfficialTheory May 27 '24

Of the last 30 major polls, Biden has led in 8. There was a tie in 7, and Trump led in the remaining 15. Including third party candidates, it’s 5/30 for Biden, 9/30 ties, and 16/30 Trump leading. In Arizona, Georgia, North Carolina, and Nevada, Biden hasn’t been up in a single poll this year. Wisconsin, he’s led in 2/17 polls this year. Michigan, 4/20.

1

u/gd2121 May 27 '24

I mean courting third party voters makes sense. Dems blamed Jill Stein for losing in 2016 but it’s not like they did anything to win over the Green Party voters.

1

u/Axin_Saxon May 27 '24

It’s not that they were 330 average libertarians. They were likely local leaders and “influencers”. People who they can theoretically use to further disseminate support.

1

u/wesman9010 May 27 '24

Thats not what this is. They are making a concerted effort to appear to be the unification party. Think of his sneaker launch, bronx speech, now libertarian outreach.

They want to be able to say and get coverage thar he is doing outreach and uniting the country.

1

u/PnPaper May 27 '24

Uniting the country with sneakers.

That's insane.

But I can see how his base would eat it up.

"Look, now black people have to love him."

1

u/Adventurous_Cod_4986 May 27 '24

i think its because rfk spoke there aswell and trump is worried about losing supporters. from what i understand, libertarians have a more favorable view of bobby but voted for trump in last two elections(the ones who didnt vote libertarian nominee). that might change.

1

u/ddplz May 27 '24

Betting odds have Trump winning the election.

1

u/PnPaper May 27 '24

Which is exactly why I wrote "internal" numbers.

Their must be a reason why he goes out of his comfort zone of his cult members worshipping him to crowd he can't control.

1

u/Samuel_L_Johnson May 27 '24

Probably one of his more clever aides who doesn’t buy into the ‘stolen election’ thing has noticed that the margins by which he lost swing states in 2020 were quite close to the Libertarian vote

They should have sent someone smarter than Trump to speak to them, but it was a good idea in principle

1

u/Some_Accountant_961 May 27 '24

I respect a person who goes into the lion's den to give it a shot.

1

u/LateStageDadaism May 28 '24

If you're just playing along with the joke, then cool.

If you're being serious, then you should probably know that Gary Johnson got 4,489,235 votes in 2016 (3.3% of the total national vote.) Jo Jorganson, a much less popular candidate, still got 1,865,535 votes in 2020 (1.2% of the total national vote). Elections have been won on smaller margins than that, and this election could easily be one of them. Libertarians switching to vote for Trump or Biden can absolutely swing elections in key districts and win one of them the presidency.