r/TheHandmaidsTale • u/Fickle-Syllabub6730 • 15d ago
For a society so focused on children, doesn't every home in Gilead seem absolutely joyless and unsuitable for children to be raised in? There's so many contradictions (Spoilers up to S2E4) Question
I just started watching the show and I'm only up to S2E4, so please no spoilers. But I watched the baby shower and still can't understand how these Commander's Wives don't malfunction. They're so obsessed with getting babies. But the entire society they've built is utterly devoid of joy.
No one smiles. No one laughs. There's no sense of playfulness. They nominally respect the trappings of childhood, like when they pass around the little toys. But can you imagine any child sitting in that house, playing with any of those toys and having a good time? Everyone is tense, everyone whisper talks, no one exudes the kind of unbridled happiness that you usually want kids to see. The Wives do move their mouths into something approximating a smile sometimes. But it's so cold and mechanical and obviously fake.
Don't these wives remember life before? When having a kid meant taking goofy pictures and doing silly things and having belly laughs? Don't they want those moments with their children? Instead they made a society that completely precludes that from happening.
I think of that on the Commander's side too. Can you imagine any of them throwing the ball in the yard with their kids? Laying on the floor and letting the kid crawl all over them? You know, the fun parts of being a parent?
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u/Forever_Marie 15d ago
I mean, I was raised from a Silent Gen person whose favorite saying was "Children should be seen not heard"
I'd wager that a high amount of people never wanted kids and just had them for society or religious reasons.
Children in a fertility crisis are a status symbol.
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u/Advanced_Level 15d ago
Children in a fertility crisis are a status symbol.
This is exactly it. Spot on, perfectly stated. They're a "blessing" - proof that they're God's chosen - a status symbol.
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u/JanisIansChestHair 15d ago
My dad was born in the 60s and that was his favourite saying, too.
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u/Forever_Marie 15d ago
It apparently dates back to the 15th century and sorta was implied towards women more.
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u/smith8020 13d ago
Silent gen is what birth year range? Because so many who became parents in the 50s and 60s really should never have been parents. They hated being parents and made it about control and the kids being a job and burden and annoying. Hence seen and not heard. But that was the road map / expectations, get out highschool. Get married , and have kids in a ranch house , and make those kids wanna leave your house early… in early 20’s if not sooner! Those silent kids were parents who loved the joy of kids, who supported gap years, who celebrated their kids had voices and ideas and opinions, dreams and goal that were beyond a wedding ring. Life isn’t a merry go round and grab that brass ring. Millennials today have plans, college and grad school, or writing and travel, many different life plans that are supported and encouraged! Not the oh thank god they are getting married and out of our hair when they are 22 or younger! If those 50 and 60’s parents had seen Gilead coming, Gilead would not need to chase them down, they would be lining up, telling the kids… go , it’s just like summer camp.
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u/Forever_Marie 13d ago
Silent Gen were the parents of the Baby boomers. It looks to be 1928-1945. Though that saying has been around since the 15th century. And the Baby boomers were the parents of Gen X which someone were the meanest.
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u/smith8020 10d ago
I am a baby boomer and parent to Millennials! We had best be seen not heard in my day, but my kids were heard and even on stage! Lol
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u/ReputationPowerful74 15d ago
These women were raised in much more conservative households than you were, to say the least. There are plenty of cultures within the US today where joy and glee are seen as sinful, even and perhaps especially in children.
I recommend watching some of the FLDS documentaries that have been coming out, or read some memoirs of escaped members, as a starting point.
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u/Super_Reading2048 15d ago
Or watch the documentary shiny happy people; so many people/churches in America support those beliefs today. It is frightening! Maybe because I was raised Baptist (in a cult) I’m not surprised by the hypocrisy, child abuse, child neglect, what they think a woman’s place should be & how no one questions the pastor. Gilead is a theocracy which is a cult on level where the entire state is the cult (& there are no “evil” secular guard rails to hold any of the crazy back.)
My cousin homeschools all 8 of her children (3 are adults now.) Meaning it completely when I started asking about her eldest daughter about going to college she said “oh we don’t believe in our daughters going to college; that is just debt their future husband inherits.” WTAF! !!! 🥲🙀😡🥲I had no words. I feel bad for all her children, especially her daughters. I’m not close to her anymore since she joined her crazy church/cult.
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u/ReputationPowerful74 15d ago
I’d say Shiny Happy People is required viewing along with Keep Sweet, Pray, and Obey. It shows an important bridge between cults like the FLDS and Pentecostalism, which seem too “out there” for a lot of Americans, and your much more familiar Baptist cults. My mom’s family were mostly Independent Baptists, with some in the “milder” Southern Baptist churches. So I’m right there with ya! (Though I was lucky that she didn’t keep with any of it.)
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u/UserOfCookies 14d ago
I would also recommend the YouTube channel Cults to Consciousness. They interview people who have escaped a variety of cults and have even interviewed people who were also featured in Shiney Happy People. They allow their guests to go into as much detail as they feel comfortable sharing. The goal is to expose these cults for what they are.
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u/NixiePixie916 14d ago
And "The Program" on Netflix. Shows what happens with the kids who don't "fit" as well.
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u/ReputationPowerful74 14d ago
Yes! The really interesting deep dive that took me down was how many YA authors have Mormon backgrounds and/or sympathies. So many elements of the Program reminded me of a lot of YA settings, and it started to really come together there.
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u/use_more_lube 14d ago
I'm so sorry, that utterly sucks.
Are you close to any of your nieces? Is there any way to be a resource to the eldest girl?
College doesn't have to be the way - trades are very good money, and if she can join a Union she'll literally be paid to learn.Paid Apprenticeships are hard to find, but they are out there and some are leveraged for minorities which includes women.
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u/VeganMonkey 15d ago
Did you ever speak to those oldest daughters, ask what they wanted?
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u/ReputationPowerful74 15d ago
Homeschooling is a notoriously insular experience. Homeschooled kids (and culty Baptist kids) are often raised with very limited access to media. My cousins fully believed that “hazing” was the process of hooking all college freshmen on alcohol and that it was administered by the school. They only saw TV and movies that their parents played for them, and it was usually just bits and pieces. When I was a kid they watched nonstop Veggie Tales, even the older ones. By the time I estranged myself from the family, the kids weren’t even allowed that. Somewhere along the way, Veggie Tales became blasphemous in how lightheartedly it treated the Bible.
So anyway. It’s not really a question you can ask those kids in good faith.
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u/rude-bader-ginsburg 14d ago
As a kid who grew up largely on Veggie Tales, what? They might as well go full Puritan and whip their kids for smiling too much.
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u/ReputationPowerful74 14d ago
Yup! Not all of it, but a good amount of the way Fundies live is rooted in Puritanical beliefs. Joy should only come from the Lord via hard work and giving praise. Their kids get punished for seeking joy even as babies. If they seem excited for meal times after weaning, they get a more bland, and they’ll put something unpleasant in the food they liked until they stop being excited for it. One of my aunts moved her kid to formula (not a popular choice among them) because the kid was bonding to her too much and getting spoiled. They lay them on the floor with toys nearby, and if they reach for them, they get a slap on the hand and a loud “NO!” like an abused dog.
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u/ChickenandtheEggy 14d ago
Ah yes, the last thing you mention is called “blanket training” and is practiced by many fundies, including the Duggar family. I think they start when the babies are learning to crawl.
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u/ReputationPowerful74 14d ago
Yeah, if I recall, the Duggars follow IBLP? I swear my family read and talked about that shit more than the Bible.
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u/smith8020 13d ago
Blanket training not to reach for toys!!! Child abuse. Just plain mean for no reason.
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u/Super_Reading2048 15d ago
I’m very LC with my cousin. When I was visiting that one time I did tell her that she needs to be accredited or licensed or have a degree if she wants to be able to support herself. That she would need to take an SAT class, study and then apply to colleges. That state schools were cheaper but she could get a student loan to pay for college tuition and dorm costs. I also told her if she gets a degree she needs to have a career field in mind. I told her there were websites to help her and career counselors. ….. this is probably why I don’t see her. 🤷🏻♀️ Her daughter didn’t go to college but went to trade school instead. I just wanted her to know she had choices. Imagine telling a 14 year old girl that her going to college was waste!
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u/lordmwahaha 15d ago
Yes, that is part of the point. Gilead doesn’t actually care about kids.
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u/Like_Totally_Chilly 15d ago
Yes! Came here to say exactly this. Gilead is a Totalitarian regime. Totalitarian regimes only care about power and control. Children and fertility as national resources are a means for drumming up support to enact and maintain their control. To paraphrase Joseph Lawrence, “Gilead doesn’t care about children. They’re window dressing.”
Also, besides being resources, children are also status symbols. The Testaments goes into this more, but Commanders and Wives do not have our mentality of adoption or blended families or whatever. They don’t really care about the children. Also, Wives often resent the children of handmaids, and both “parents” (i.e. kidnappers!) just don’t care about their children because they just have them for status. Children are basically stripped of their personhood in this system and don’t necessitate the kind of love and care that they would be given pre-Gilead.
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u/LindaBelchie69 15d ago
The children aren't children in Gilead, just future baby making machines
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u/davosknuckles 15d ago
Exactly. They are not having babies to love and play with. They are procreating so that their ideals and society can expand.
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u/waywardgirl25 15d ago
Lawrence says in season 4 ( I just watched this episode ) that it was never about the children, it was about power
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u/ChrissyMB77 14d ago
Yeah I commented this on another post that was asking about gilaed and the kids/babies. I don’t know if a lot of people just forget this scenes or what but the whole we love babies is just a front!
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u/smith8020 13d ago
If it was about the welfare of the children, then they could never have ripped children away from loving parents. But then the sterile privileged wives would be just that , barren and forever childless. No they were thinking of themselves, power and cult. Never the children.
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u/yellowcoffee01 14d ago
As it always is. The same with the current attack against reproductive rights in the U.S. Never about children, always about power.
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u/smith8020 13d ago
That is true! They, GOP, hate welfare, SNAP, WIC, Healthy Family care and First 5. They hate help with childcare. But they want every single pregnancy to complete to a child… which they then don’t want to be any help in supporting as a community. Hypocrites.
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u/WoodwifeGreen 15d ago
Serena may want one but many of them don't. They're just status symbols.
Naomi barely paid attention to Angela, Janine's baby.
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u/pelvic_kidney 14d ago
There's also a scene where a Commander's Wife basically tells Emily/Ofsteven(?) that if she doesn't want to do the Ceremony that night, the Wife will make an excuse with the Commander to get them both out of it. Emily's response implies that the Wife has been making excuses to the Commander for a few months now. A Wife who is desperate for a child wouldn't be consistently trying to get out of the Ceremony, whether she feels sympathy towards the Handmaid or not.
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u/specialkk77 14d ago
I believe that would have been her first ceremony night at that house, she had just been placed there after her “correction” and the wife was resistant to the ceremony and trying to get out of it herself, while also extending the kindness to Emily.
That episode sticks out to me because I believe it’s the only time we see a dog acting like a pet instead of like a weapon. All other cases they’re acting as police/military dogs. Which is fine, those breeds are made for it, but they do also make fine house pets! It just sticks out to me that this commander has a pet and none of the others seem to, and that the wife doesn’t want to do the ceremony.
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u/pelvic_kidney 14d ago
I can see that interpretation, too. I felt a lot of camaraderie in that brief exchange. I don't think any of the Wives really enjoy the Ceremony, but they're willing to do it if they can advance their social standing with children. However, that Wife trying to get them both out of the Ceremony struck me as someone whose desire for a child hadn't yet supplanted her sense of morality. Maybe the fact that they did have a pet dog is giving me that impression.
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u/smith8020 13d ago
You see very little of the babies and children! Glimpses here and there. Until June starts trying to get her daughters back AND free a plateful of children too. Then we see them. Sullen, sad, shell shocked and definitely not missing the Gilead “mothers or fathers.”
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u/Fragrant-Forever-166 15d ago
Yes, they want children. Obedient children, not necessarily happy children.
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u/Karissa36 14d ago
It doesn't matter what they want. It is their duty to raise their kids correctly. If they are raising little hooligans, the State is going to take those kids away.
I don't know anyone who truly cares if their kid says an obscenity every now and then, but we all make sure they aren't dropping F bombs in kindergarten. It's why we might give our kid a donut for breakfast before school, but never a candy bar. You don't want your kid telling the teacher he had candy at breakfast. Multiply that by a million trillion for Gilead.
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u/gdt813 15d ago
The focus of Gilead is the men.
Men getting what they want.
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u/Ok_Imagination7170 14d ago
Yep, and the way to make the wives compliant is to give them a 'status symbol' to keep them occupied (even though we all know the Marthas raise the children). For the men, population = power. For (most of) the women it's like having the newest Gucci purse and showing it off to your friends. Population = popularity.
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u/smith8020 13d ago
In a world where even the most privileged women can have finger chopped off by her “ loving husband”, We can’t expect anyone other than the high ranking men to have any power and say and any voice.
They want to go back to some biblical time were women were mostly property of men, had no voice and were expected to obey. The scary thing is that some today want this too! And they are not whispering it they are shouting it from the rooftops. Woman have no body autonomy in May states now. The right wing want a national abortion ban, the hell with State and women’s rights? They want to do away with IVF and just lost the bid to stop the Plan B type medical abortion pill. They want to be in everyone’s doctors office or bedroom weighing in and talking over. Gilead isn’t only in the book and tv, it is with us and fighting tooth and nail to get and keep power. There is a state requiring schools to post the 10 commandments, the the SCOTUS is thinking over a ruling on whether the us president is immune from criminal prosecution, for crimes committed while in or while leaving the role of POTUS. They are slow walking this ruling, so DJT can run for president again, and may very well not rule at all. Just hold off then punt it back to the lower courts.
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u/doesshechokeforcoke 15d ago
They don’t actually care about children. Gilead hides behind religion and the low birth rate as the reason for their horrible behavior but the only things they actually care about are power and control. The Martha’s are the ones actually raising most of the kids and I’m sure the parents policy is “seen but not heard “.
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u/Nyardyn 14d ago
Gilead is what became of the USA after their personal apocalypse when conservatives took over. Looking at conservative, extremist-religious USA now should answer your question. The men in Gilead and in those religious groups are usually happy as a clam being supplied with child brides, enjoying power that is being given to them by virtue of being born male and generally thriving on the suppression of the larger rest of society which is women and their own children. Most of what is expected of women and children in Gilead is a sad reality already in many religious groups in the USA.
There's currently an annual number of about 300.000 child marriages in the USA most people conveniently don't know. Just today I read in the news that the conservative republican gouverneur Jeff Landry in Louisiana made it a law that in his state every school needs to have a big banner with the 10 commandments of Christianity which he calls 'the original law' every person has to follow. Of course that's completely against the American constitution those people so like to point to at any and all occasions. It's also against international law that's freedom of religion and separation of state and religion.
It's quite clear that people in Gilead - and in modern conservative USA - don't give a shit about children, women or even religion. Their 'religion' is purely a tool to maintain power for an elite they themselves belong to. Commanders of Gilead are frequently seen violating their own laws, even with institutionalized catering to what should actually be illegal activities punishable by death like brothels, rape, etc.
If no child or woman in Gilead laughts then that's because frankly there is nothing to laugh about. Any woman who supported Gilead did so out of a false sense of what they thought 'god' wanted, then found themselves trapped in a nightmare corset of lying or dying.
The story of the Handmaid's Tale is widely called a warning shot because that's what it is. It's supposed to tell you two things:
1) Be careful what you cheer for. 2) Not exercising your right to vote as long as you still can is not an option.
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u/Karissa36 14d ago
Just today I read in the news that the conservative republican gouverneur Jeff Landry in Louisiana made it a law that in his state every school needs to have a big banner with the 10 commandments of Christianity which he calls 'the original law' every person has to follow.
I'm a lawyer. Louisiana knows that it's law is unconstitutional. Just like Biden knows that his recent Executive Order to decrease immigration is unconstitutional. The exact same facts have already been litigated and decided before. Trump lost first and now Biden will lose. Everyone knows it and there is another political motive -- to buy time and look like you are doing something even though you are not. (Courts have already suspended that EO.)
Louisiana will also lose and they know it. The exact same facts have been litigated before. So what are they doing? This is just my guess, but I have been following SCOTUS and cases likely heading to SCOTUS, for a very long time.
The goal is to get this and any similar cases in other conservative States chronologically lined up in the various courts, with another line of cases in liberal States objecting to their public school's decorations on a religious basis. (Some have already been filed.) Move them along strategically through appeals and there is an excellent chance that SCOTUS will take both cases to decide at the same time.
Does religion allow you to put decorations into schools and/or allow you to remove decorations from schools? See how the issues are linked?
They are not actually trying to get the 10 Commandments into schools. They are trying to get BLM, Pride and Trans flags out of schools. There is an excellent chance that they will succeed and nobody's partisan philosophy will be hanging in any classroom. Atheists do not have more rights than Christians to indoctrinate children.
So that's kind of the back story on our sometimes Machiavellian civil justice system.
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u/Nyardyn 14d ago
i fully believe you that this is what they're trying to ban. Sounds like political normalcy. BLM and lgbtq+ has nothing at all to do with atheism or religion in general at all though. Plenty of religions are supportive anyway or at least uncaring of lgbtq+ like buddhism or hinduism.
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u/use_more_lube 14d ago
There's some good news on the Child Bride front
4 years ago my state passed legislation raising the marriage age to a hard 18.
Now there are 13 states with similar laws.Now, even with parental consent, a child may no longer marry in Pennsylvania.
I'm utterly shocked and entirely thrilled.
~*~
Youngest marriage I could find for my state was a couple of 12 year old girls - they were married in the early 2000's when there was literally no lower limit to marriage.One child was married to a 24 year old and the other to a thirty something.
Anathama.
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u/FocaSateluca 15d ago
Your mistake is thinking this is a society that is focusing on children because it loves them. No. Children are a duty, first and foremost, and a burden. They must obey and submit at all times, groomed to be either soldiers or leaders if they are boy or wives if they are girls. There is no room for childhood like we understand it. They are just young people in training.
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u/StrangerMemes1996 15d ago
They state later on that Gilead doesn’t care about children, they just care about the numbers. Sound like the Republican Party, because that’s exactly what we’re getting.
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u/New-Number-7810 15d ago
The upper echelons see children as possessions and status symbols, not as vulnerable little humans or as loved ones to be cherished.
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u/Rebelwriter321 14d ago
SPOILER ALERT FOR ANYONE WHO HASN’T WATCHED SEASON FIVE—you may not want to read this comment. This was exactly my thought when I watched some of the scenes between Serena Joy and Alanis, when Alanis complained about the baby crying and said that baby Noah would have to learn though a method called “cry it out.” He is one month old. Babies that young don’t usually cry unless they need something or something is wrong.
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u/specialkk77 14d ago
It’s impossible and inhumane to do cry it out with a newborn. That part made me feel so sick the first time I watched it.
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u/Rebelwriter321 14d ago
Same. The coldness with which Alanis said it, too. It’s clear they don’t value babies for anything other than social currency.
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u/Pandepon 14d ago
When you’re in a puritan-based society. If it’s not related to God’s Work, it is sinful. In puritan society kids aren’t really allowed to be emotional in any kind of exaggerated way, children were strictly disciplined and couldn’t exercise their own wills. Games and toys were special privileges and not something enjoyed daily.
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u/bt2212 14d ago
I also think it comes down to overt christian fundamentalism they abide by. I.e Women are breeding stock (handmaids) and wives are simply there to run their households, support their husband and raise any children. This is a core part of their doctrine. Women fulfilling roles that they believe are ordained by God - and to not want to abide by this doctrine makes you and unwoman.
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u/GaymerMove 14d ago
Apart from the fact that Puritanism, which inspired Gilead, is -to quote H.L Mencken- the fear that someone somewhere might be happy,the point is to have children,not to raise happy children
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u/thisonesusername 14d ago
It's not about babies. It never is, just like it's not about babies right now. It's always about status and power. Gilead made women and babies their currency. The sooner people wrap their heads around this, the sooner we can fight it in our own reality.
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u/rqnadi 14d ago
I can’t remember the season, maybe 3? but they show the one commander and his wife with like, 6 kids, And they all seem happy and playful. And then they talk about the joys of their life and how they were both lawyers before and don’t have time for kids, but they do now.
But the happiness is all an illusion, because deep down everything else is just dark and rotted. Like the dude looks like a good father but inside he’s a psychopath like the rest of the commanders.
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u/peoplesuck2024 14d ago
It's not much than different than today. Govt makes you have children, but as soon as you do, they don't give a shit about what happens to those children and women. Gilead only cares about women if they are fertile.
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u/David43432 14d ago
This what i thought when i first saw this show who in their right minds would want to raise children in a place like gilead violence aside its so desolate and depressing everyone wears the same ugly grey clothing there is a total and complete lack of joy or culture of any kind whatsoever life has been boiled down to men going to work women shopping and occasionally seeing Guardians Drive down your street in SUV’s oh and while we are on the subject the GMC Yukon XL the standard vehicle guardians use to patrol is a huge gas guzzler so much for saving the planet but gilead was never about saving the planet or serving god or even creating a better world for children it’s men having complete and total control over women that is the reality of the Republic of Gilead
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u/FogPetal 14d ago
The women that we get to know in the series who trafficked children from handmaids seem to care about and love them. But they are being raised in a society where disobedience gets you tortured or killed. So there is an understandably high value put on obedience.
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u/bebefeverandstknstpd 14d ago
It was never about the children. It was all about brute force, and domination over others. Kids, religion, environment were just the cover.
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u/ancientastronaut2 14d ago
That's the whole point. It's not really about children at all but rather pure oppression.
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u/Janknitz 14d ago
We have only seen mostly commander's wives in public, social settings (except when the handmaids are alone with them at home). In a public setting the is huge competition to appear to be the perfect wife and mother, to run the household perfectly, all for the purpose of their husband's careers. And having a baby (through a handmaid) is serious business, it gets your commander husband serious credibility in the hierarchy.
I can relate because I grew up in a military community. Women reflected the rank of their husband, with higher ranking women calling the social shots for the wives of people under their husband's command. They (and their children) were supposed to act certain ways, look certain ways, think certain ways and there was a very apparent social hierarchy.
Even kids had this hanging over their heads. Certain things you might get in trouble with at school could be reported to your father's commanding officer and could get your father in big trouble. I needed heart surgery when we were stationed out of the country, and there were no pediatric heart doctors on the island we where we lived (Okinawa). My heart condition was not imminently threatening, and my parents loved living there, but eventually the commanding officer gave my father an ultimatum--either I was taken back to the states for the surgery or we would be transferred back to the states altogether. Even today it bothers me to think that my father's boss (and BTW, at that point my father was a civilian working a for the US Army) had info on my medical history and had a say in the treatment I received. The military even controlled how I was transported back to the states for the surgery (via medical evacuation even though I was perfectly mobile and not compromised, along with hundreds of soldiers wounded in Viet Nam).
When you get to the season (I forget which) where Offred and the family visit Washington DC, their host family has many children (high status) and the kids seem happy. They have lots of toys and fun. But I'm sure they are very constrained in public settings, too.
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u/RockStars007 14d ago edited 14d ago
That’s the point. The way people conform to bizarre things and think it’s normal, then turn around and judge others for doing what they used to do. Women in Gilead are reduced to nothing that matters, they become stunted and act out. Gardening, babies, being less. People are very basic and looking for leaders, which is why you see people flock to practically worship someone that is a psychopath. There is nothing in THT that cannot come true.
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u/moxy_munikins 13d ago
Sounds like they're giving their children a nice Roman Catholic upbringing! (Obvi I'm ex-catholic)
It's not about actually having morals, it's about looking like you have morals to justify your horrifying decisions.
This kind of thing has been going on for thousands of years. For sure, Catholics used to love taking children from their "heathen" families and often put those children in super abusive environments. All under the guise of "saving their souls".
I mean, my sister fancies herself a good Catholic, she's very "pro-life" but she's against universal free school breakfast/lunch for kids. Contradictions are her bread and butter.
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u/Proditude 13d ago
Religious homes are often joyless and full of repression. They would argue that joy isn’t required for salvation. 🙄
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u/smith8020 13d ago
No toys , no music , no joy. No therapy for the children ripped away from their real bio parents. Gilead is not a place for anyone, least of all children. It is male ego gone insane. It is hell on earth. It is the worst cockroach people taking over the country.
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u/Ancient-Trouble-7013 14d ago
There's a family later with seemingly happy kids. Fred comes to life temporarily and stupid Serena has a "falling again" moment for him.
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u/Fabulous-Bus1837 14d ago
They don't want children, they want ideal children. They want kids who behave themselves and don't make waves, as the Book of Testaments makes quite clear. The Testaments also show that it's the Marthas who look after the children, not the Wives, who show them off to their friends and then, when they've had enough, put them away in a corner. Children are a factor in social climbing, especially for Commanders (in the first book Offred implies that Dewarren's Commander is sure to get a promotion now that she has a baby).
And of course, girl children are probably much more to walk on eggshells than boys: for what would happen to a little girl who read? At what age would we cut off her finger for that? Little girls know it's potentially possible, they just don't know from when (and possibly from the start of their lives).
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u/green_miracles 14d ago
Even in an oppressive and austere society like this one, I believe we do see and hear children playing and laughing. We hear it from outside a school. Look at the scenes when they went to visit a high commander’s home, a home full of children. This isn’t a spoiler, just an episode description. IIRC, there were a bunch of kids, all playing and boisterous in the home, and lots of Martha’s.
Hannah, with her “new” family, seemed generally as happy as a little girl in Gilead could be and the “mother” did seem ostensibly that she loved and treasured Hannah, and spoke highly of her as being bright. She was also blessed with being raised by a Martha (Black woman who was her nanny) who loved her. And i won’t say anything more about that, just to avoid any spoilers. Unfortunately, Hannah’s getting older, and as much as the mom may love her, that’s the deal. All girls lives change drastically as they come to being “of age” to be married off as child brides. As girls, they are taught traditional wife activities— floral arrangement, lots of needlepoint art, I forget what else. I think sewing or crochet maybe? All their school books are just pictures. No words. The cookbooks for Martha’s are also just pictures.
If there’s a glaring flaw in Gilead, it’s lack of keeping the women happy-ish. You’d think all the MEN planning & running this fascist patriarchal society would at least have the fucking forethought to say “let’s keep the womenfolk busy and we’ll have less trouble” lol.
They really give them nothing. Like “idle hands are devils playground,” no? Girls can’t read, so that eliminates an entire hobby and form of entertainment that even prisoners are allowed. I’m guessing no card games or bridge allowed. We dont even see women’s calisthenics groups. All the upper wives can do is…. Go for walks, fuck around with flowers in a greenhouse, and boss around the domestic worker slaves. They can’t busy themselves with the shopping, baking/cooking, or cleaning, as they have help for all that, including childcare. Which may be for the best. The children are status symbols and seen as assets, blessings from god that make you look good. Some of the mothers are cold, some aren’t. So at least a child would have hope of having a nanny Martha who loved her.
It blows my mind they wouldn’t give the women more to keep them busy. And to reduce stress. It’s like in zoology, all the wild animals are kept captive in enclosures, part of a zoology team’s job is “enrichment.” Figure out ways to give them mental and physical simulation. Or else the animals will start showing stress behaviors and illness- anything from walking in circles, to self-harm- and generally will be more prone to chronic disease
I would just go crazy there as a woman having literally no entertainment or mental stimulation all day.
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u/smith8020 13d ago
Not to mention the very mean husbands, captive helpers and raped handmaidens and all the nonstop torture and violent all around them! It is more than just boredom. Everyone but the men are in Dante’s circles of hell, which has no end and no escape. Boredom isn’t great but it also isn’t the worst thing about Gilead.
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u/AQuietViolet 12d ago
June's monologue about the "pig ball" in the first book is still burned into my brain after all these years.
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u/Abject_Bodybuilder41 14d ago
Just like their real life counterparts, they're more focused on making sure people carrying a fetus birth it, regardless the costs to their wellbeing or health. Then, they're more focused on making sure the child is indoctrinated so they can grow up a bit and be forced to carry and birth a fetus/baby. They don't really care if they have fun doing it.
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u/Tessa_the_Witch 14d ago
In Gilead, children are a possession or accessory. They are not considered people enough for things to actually be good for them there.
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u/waronxmas79 14d ago
Kind of like how anti-abortion cultist can’t be bothered with those fetuses after they’re born…
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u/Oleanderlullaby 12d ago
They don’t actually want babies. They want the status symbol that is having a child. Thats why men are promoted when their wives become pregnant etc. most of these rich women (cause they were rich before we see that with Serena and Fred) just want to live their rich lifestyles. But instead of a Louis bag and givenchy clothes that denoted wealth and power before the accessory is now as many babies as they can procure. They definitely remember before and that’s why they’re so miserable. They want to go back to their high society dinners and fancy parties and coke in the powder room and caviar and 700 dollar bottles of wine. Hence also why the Martha’s raise the children (you never see a child ask for their “mother” they always ask for the Martha to be returned to their Martha to be near their Martha. We see this with Agnes where she clings to her Martha and describes Mrs McKenzie as “nice”.) They get love from the Martha’s for sure they get kindness from the Martha’s until they’re old enough to be mistresses or masters of their home. Those women don’t want babies. They want status and safety.
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u/Oleanderlullaby 12d ago
Oh. You’ll notice this more in the books as well. All the commanders and Wives are elderly or close to elderly.
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u/chaineddragon7 11d ago
Because they don't actually care about children, it's all about power....same as here now
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u/Bright_Wolverine4547 10d ago
All i can say is just keep watching ur on the correct plot assumption
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u/Bright_Wolverine4547 10d ago
When it comes to the commanders they only wants boys they al loathe woman thats why they tricked their woves into believing they’d be held to a hierarchy when instead theyre just blue handmaids and marthas
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u/mannymd90 10d ago
I don’t think that’s a crazy notion given the government depicted in the show/book. They don’t want women to have children for the benefit of the children. They want children born to benefit their government. More bodies equals more labor and numbers for their military. It’s all to the benefit of the few.
It’s the same with our own reality. The political push from many different conservative parties across the world to outlaw abortion doesn’t come from a place of “wanting to protect children” and from their religion, as much as they use that as an excuse and a way to galvanize voters. They want to make sure they have bodies, especially poor bodies, for cheap labor and the military. In the US for example, if concern for the children was actually the goal, then things like paid maternity leave, stipends for parents, free daycar, free health care for children, etc, would exist. But once the babies are out, it’s on its own. Because control and cheap labor are the goals, not protecting children.
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u/overdonefries 15d ago
so I actually have had this conversation with my friends and the major theory we came up with is this:
Majority of the women (that we see at least) don’t actually want children. They want the social capital that comes with having a child, and when that’s the case, happiness doesn’t really matter. The women we see are pretty high up in the food chain in Gilead, and having a child is simply a way to move up that chain. I’m sure there are other homes where there is more joy within their walls, but they have less to lose. If you aren’t that high up, people are looking at you, or rather trying to find ways to bring you down in order to raise themselves up.