r/TheHandmaidsTale • u/user2345338 • May 26 '24
how did a doctor get to be a martha? Question
in season 2 when the putnems baby gets sick serena calls in for a martha who used to be a doctor to check out the baby. i’m confused because i thought any woman with that kind of education was sent to the colonies or got put on the wall.
i know emily was excused because she is fertile but that doctor was a martha so gilead didn’t need her. so why would they keep her as a martha?
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u/Bunny_Mom_Sunkist May 26 '24
Not always. I’d imagine a lot of educated women got sent to the Colonies or executed for fighting back against Gilead, but not all educated people get involved with politics. I always assumed the doctor Martha was a quiet, introverted woman who was excellent at her job and mainly focused on that. She probably also saved the lives of many babies, thus making her an unpopular choice to purge even if she had vocally opposed Gilead. She probably lived a quiet life, had a nice condo near the hospital where she worked, maybe a few pets and a husband, but her work was paramount, especially after newborns started dying in droves. She didn’t have time to get involved in anti-Gilead protests, even though some of her colleagues invited her out with them.
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u/carbomerguar May 27 '24
I bet they quietly put many doctors/surgeons in background drudge positions. Women old enough to be that advanced professionally are good at blending in the background. Especially since the doctor appeared to be Gen X or Boomer, so socialized to keep her head down and quietly excel. If I were Bradley Whitford, I’d count on them wanting to stay on the up and up for the chance to maybe their degree again-they would be smart enough to know why they were spared.
I saw how the actress sold her shock and joy/terror at touching a stethoscope again. I would assume the idea of doing that is a powerful motivator to do what they probably had to do in med school- ignore asshole men and gut through the work for the chance to practice medicine.
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u/bellhall May 26 '24
The doctor may have saved the life (or lives) of babies born for high ranking commanders. If any of those commanders had a shred of gratitude or decency left, she may have been spared torture in the colonies to be a Martha.
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u/Ambitious-Ad-3688 May 26 '24
That’s a really good point! I also almost wonder if some insiders pulled some stings to keep women with exceptional talents alive. Holly was a legendary gyno, but she never would have played along in this system.
Hypocrisy unlocked: how many babies did Holly deliver, care for, and save? Yet she was persecuted in a society that supposedly revolves around fertility and babies.
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u/AZT2022 May 26 '24
I think the bigger issue with Holly was that she was openly pro-choice and helped guide women to the best option for them. I don't know if it was ever explicitly stated that she performed abortions, but that was always my impression. (Ex. when Moira says to June, "I thought they destroyed all the records" - that makes me think the records included abortions performed in Holly's clinic.)
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u/NestingDoll86 May 26 '24
I think it’s pretty strongly implied that Holly performed abortions. That’s what doctors (both men and women) would have been put on the wall or sent to the colonies for.
The Martha OP refers to was a neonatal pediatric specialist, so she wouldn’t have performed abortions in that role.
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u/Frei1993 Treason & Coconuts May 26 '24
And Holly also performed sterilisations. She did a vasectomy on that guy that offers June and her family a way to escape.
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u/Inner-Entrance7148 May 30 '24
If I remember correctly, the doctor treating Natalie/of Mathew when she’s an incubator and June tries to stab Serena mentioned that he remembered her mom and something about abortions
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u/specialkk77 May 26 '24
She also preformed sterilizations after they were banned, as said by the man that tries to help Luke and June across the border (seen in flashbacks)
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u/darkness_is_great May 26 '24
I definitely think there could've been some favoritism and bribes. Maybe along the lines of, "if you keep quiet about the monthly rapes and all the torture, you get to keep your nice house and eat good food. "
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u/carbomerguar May 27 '24
I can see a Wife like Mrs. Lawrence (the first and i guess based on her growth, the current as well) or the kind wife who let Emily out of the ritual, insisting she be spared.
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u/ichosethis May 26 '24
I know they talk about university purges at one point as if they executed anyone working or attending a university but I think they more likely executed a small number of university students and faculty and the propaganda was that they purged all of them. So execute the openly gay, unmarried living in sin, women's studies, etc but assign others to be soldiers, Martha's, handmaids, and econopeople after allowing them to repent or something.
I doubt they purged everyone with higher education or they wouldn't have had enough of a population to survive as a country for very long. They would have had to save as many as they could. My guess would be that the world class neonatologist was just not openly problematic enough to need to kill so they gave her a job instead. If she wasn't known to protest, was not involved in abortions, and did not do anything to defy the rise of Gilead or if she saved the right person's infant, they wouldn't have a good enough reason to kill her.
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u/Linzabee May 27 '24
Exactly - the louder ones like Holly who couldn’t or wouldn’t keep their mouths shut would have ended up in the colonies or on the wall. The ones who could keep their mouths shut and didn’t have other sins on their records ended up as Econowives (if fertile) or Marthas (if not). The ones who could keep their mouths shut and had sins ended up as Handmaids. The ones who actively celebrated Gilead (the Amy Coney Barretts of the world) probably became Wives or Aunts depending on age/fertility.
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u/Commie_Pigs May 27 '24
People are evil because they’re conservative? You’re comparing a real life female conservative judge to someone who supports the torture and murder present in Gilead? That’s such a terrible example. Modern far left liberals are insane and so very destructive to the American economy and safety of our nation.
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u/Linzabee May 27 '24
Yeah ok, I’m insane and so destructive to America’s economy and safety. 🙄 You don’t know anything about me at all. Meanwhile the person in my example has been verified as someone who wants to specifically Christianize the United States. If that doesn’t sound like Gilead, I don’t know what else does. Downvote me all you want, but it’s true.
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u/AngelSucked May 27 '24
Barrett is a member of a literal conservative Christian dominionist cult where she and other women are called Handmsids and must obey their husbands in every way.
She agrees with Gilead. Every second of her day is praising and working towards that future.
In today's US, any conservative not denouncing GOP leadership is complicit in our path towatd Gilead.
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u/EvulRabbit May 26 '24
Education (from the before) was not an automatic sin. So if she was infertile, yet without sin, she would become something other than handmaid/colonies.
Fertile women without sin = Econowife.
Infertile without sin = Martha
Infertile with sin = colony/or the club thing that I can't remember what it's called.
Fertile with sin = Handmaid.
Emily was a handmaid first because she was a lesbian/sin.
Then, he shipped to the colonies after going psycho, then back to handmaid when so many were blown up. It was never about her education.
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u/jayhof52 May 26 '24
Jezebel’s is the club; remember the Martha (presumably - she was dressed plain in the kitchen) who was a James Beard Award-winning chef?
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u/OfSpock May 26 '24
She was possibly also a mother before the infertility plague. One of the Martha’s had a son who was a soldier so she was now infertile due to age but presumably still had the gloss of previous motherhood to show Gods blessing.
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u/Doug-Bravesfan May 26 '24
That was Rita
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u/OfSpock May 26 '24
I gave up watching around season 3.
But yes. I’m assuming that Martha for a Commander ranks higher than Econo widow.
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u/ThisTakesTimeToo May 27 '24
Do you think if June and her family hadn’t tried to run away, they would’ve been allowed to stay together in gilead?
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u/EvulRabbit May 27 '24
No. He would be executed (or did they have a colony for men too?)
She was his affair partner and second wife. Divorce in Gilead isn't recognized. AKA they were "still having an affair which resulted in a baby"
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u/Frankie_Kitten May 27 '24
To answer your question, a lot of gay men are sent to the colonies, Moira at some point mentions that a 1/4 of colonies inmates are male. They're made to wear grey dresses to make them appear "equal" to women as a dehumanizing tactic as women are considered property or second class citizens at best.
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u/EvulRabbit May 27 '24
Is that in the show?! I completely missed it. Then again, I haven't watched season 5 (or 4?) , yet I need to restart the entire thing.
I read the book, but that was before season 1.
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u/NiaLavellan May 27 '24
No, because June's Husband Luke was married when they started seeing each other, and his wife did not pass away. They got divorced and then he married June. June was his second wife, but she was his Mistress first. Divorce isn't recognized under Gilead Theocracy, so in Gilead, June was legally still Luke's Mistress, not his wife.
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u/imperfectchicken May 26 '24
I mean... why would they send her to the Colonies or the Wall?
The likely reason is the doctor was able-bodied, quiet, kept her head down, and ticked off all the right boxes to become a Martha. If they kill every woman who's educated, they will definitely not have enough slaves.
It's worth noting that the rules in Gilead can shift, depending on personal connections. She could've been a Guardian's widowed mother, or saved a Commander's child's life, or it was the best a ranking friend could do to save her from another fate.
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u/AngelSucked May 27 '24
Yup, and her life was dedicated to saving babies. Someone in power helped her.
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u/ZoeFerret May 26 '24
I assume that the doctor didn't do anything offensive even though she was an educated professional. When Gilead took over, she did what she was told and didn't fight back.
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u/ChicTurker potting violets and plotting violence May 26 '24
If she was a pediatrician/neonatologist, that could have been considered a "feminine enough" form of medicine to not immediately get sent to the Wall, at least not in show-world.
Or it might not have been exactly how many babies she saved, but which babies -- if she saved the life of a child of a soon-to-be Commander, they might have requested she be given a Martha position. After all, while Serena may have known a lot more about the current state of Gilead after receiving briefings while doing Fred's work, the Wives probably do know quite a bit about the history of Marthas in their districts because of the gossip network.
And said network would have been going full force with the Baby Ambulance being sent out. So Serena could have known because of either a Wife who did have a biological child of her own saved by that doctor saying that she knew her husband vouched for her to become a Martha, or because the Wife in Doctor Martha's household told Serena about what she used to be able to do and why she was spared execution (that she saved babies like Angela).
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u/This_Mongoose445 May 26 '24
She probably went through the same indoctrination that Aunt Lydia had. Like Aunt Lydia given a choice and she picked being a Martha.
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u/thepinkinmycheeks May 26 '24
I'm sure the Aunts and Marthas were offered the same choice the Handmaids were - serve in the role we offer you, or the Wall.
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u/Historical_Kiwi9565 May 26 '24
Aunt Lydia was originally an attorney iirc, before she became a teacher.
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u/ChellPotato May 26 '24
I thought it was the other way around. I think she had been a teacher and then later became a judge. If I'm remembering a testament correctly, maybe she was an attorney but I thought it was a judge. Anyway, she wasn't a teacher at the time that Gilead took over.
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u/doesshechokeforcoke May 27 '24
In the book Lydia was a judge but on the show she was a lawyer who quit to become a teacher which she still was when Gilead began.
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u/ChellPotato May 27 '24
When did they mention that in the show? I just really don't remember
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u/doesshechokeforcoke May 27 '24
They had a flashback of Lydia when she was a teacher and ended up reporting the mom of one of her students for neglect and the kid got taken off her. Lydia was friendly with the mom at first but after a bad date with the principal she reported the mom to child services. S3/ep8
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u/ChellPotato May 27 '24
Okay but she was still a teacher at that point. She was a mandated reporter as well.
I'm not trying to say that your information is false I just don't remember her ever mentioning being a lawyer. And even so, she could have been both. A lot of judges start out as lawyers.
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u/doesshechokeforcoke May 27 '24
I know she was a teacher, you’re the one who said she wasn’t a teacher when Gilead took over. Yes she was a mandated reporter but she didn’t do it for the right reasons. When she’s on the date with the principal he says, it’s hard to believe teaching is her second career because she’s a natural and she says being a family law attorney was good practice. She also says she left because the system wasn’t set up to actually help children. If she was also a judge she would’ve said so. The show obviously changed some things from the book, like her being a judge in the book and also her having an abortion which also wasn’t mentioned in the show.
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u/ChellPotato May 27 '24
I think you misunderstood me.
She was a teacher at some point. I'm pretty sure the testaments mentioned that. But at the point when Gilead took over, she was a judge. You said she was a lawyer, and I'm thinking maybe she was a lawyer before she was a judge. Perhaps it went lawyer, then teacher, then judge.
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u/doesshechokeforcoke May 27 '24
In the Testaments she was a judge who then became a teacher for two terms but returned to being a judge. So she was a judge when Gilead started in the book. In the show she was still a teacher when things started shifting because when she’s reporting the mom she mentions her not going to church and having been with 3 men over the course of a month and how she’s required to report “moral weakness”. Gilead was already happening at that point so I doubt they would let her go back to being a lawyer/judge. Perhaps when The Testaments series is released they will disregard what they showed us in S3 of her backstory as it wouldn’t be the first time there was a continuity error in the show.
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u/AngelSucked May 27 '24
She didn't quit, she was forced out
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u/doesshechokeforcoke May 27 '24
In the show she said she left family law because the system was different back then and she couldn’t really help as many children as she wanted to. She became a teacher after that.
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u/ChellPotato May 26 '24
She probably went to "the right church" and didn't have any major sinful past. Maybe she was a widow past menopause.
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u/ZMoonPhase May 26 '24
I can’t remember but I am pretty sure Fred made a comment to June in season one that a lot of the women that were Jezebel had higher education and chose to be there. Pretty sure the other option was colonies.
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u/sharpcarnival May 26 '24
June’s mom was sent to the colonies for the type of doctor she was and she was old and realistically wouldn’t conform.
They needed some people trained as doctors.
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u/Other-Divide-8683 May 27 '24
She also performed abortions and sterilised people, while bring a political activist and openly supporting LGBTQ+ lifestyles.
She was a threat to their system and a sinner in said system.
This lady wasnt. 🤷♀️
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u/sillyhaha May 27 '24
Serena is college educated.
Mrs. Lawrence had a Master's degree (or maybe Ph.D.)
The Wife at the Colony who was killed by Emily had a Master's degree. The wife was sent to a Colony because she committed adultery.
Mrs. Putnam has a Bachelor's degree.
Aunt Lydia had a Master's degree.
Gilead wastes nothing. If someone lived a relatively sinless life before the takeover, they could live ... in their prescribed role.
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u/AngelSucked May 27 '24
Aunt Lydia has a doctorate. She had been an attorney before she was forced out from rhe courts. Thus she has a JD..
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u/sillyhaha May 27 '24
That's right! I forgot that she was a lawyer before she was an elementary Ed teacher.
Thank you!!
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u/JoanFromLegal May 28 '24
Aunt Lydia was a lawyer in The Time Before. Possibly a JD/MS in Social Work since she did family law.
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u/M3tal_Shadowhunter May 27 '24
Education wasn't a disqualifier.
Infertile/no sin not married: martha
No sin married not powwrful: econowife
Married powerful: wife
Fertile no sin: wife? Idk
Fertile sin: handmaid
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u/pickyvegan May 27 '24
Almost all of the women were educated pre-Gilead. If they went them all to the colonies, they'd have no women.
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u/Leraynieq May 26 '24
I'm rewatching it with my daughter and she asked the same thing pretty much, women aren't allowed to read, so they can't even read their kids a bed time story, I was wondering how that came to be in existence. I know men didn't want women to have ANY sort of power, but I think they shot themselves in the foot on no reading what so ever. How are they to teach the young boys? My daughter thinks there are huge gaps they didn't explain. Maybe I missed it, I know I showed her the first episode and the next time I checked in with her she was halfway through season 2, I am all caught up but if they explained why women aren't allowed to read at all I either forgot or it wasn't explained. We binge watched the rest of season 2 and half of season 3 in 2 days. But I came home and now I'm gonna start where we left off.
My daughter is also mad that June "dilly-dally's" (like when the house was on fire, June was so unnaturally calm about it, she moved at a turtle pace to get out of a burning house.
My daughter would ask me things and then tell me not to ruin it for her, but that she also wanted to know. 😂😂 anyway the no reading thing was my hang up. She saw Serena lose her pinky for reading but doesn't understand as she was reading scripture not some horrid book.
Sorry if this is too far off your topic.
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u/SwivelTop May 26 '24
The author of the book said she has taken real life events and portrayed them in one version or another. The illiteracy of femlales is a real-time example from the Taliban. Keeping females illiterate is the ultimate form of control. Education and literacy was something reserved for only aristocratic or high end merchant class in the not-to-distant past.
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u/littlebeach5555 May 26 '24
This happened in our lifetimes in Iraq. This is so sad for those women and children. Russia beat the crap out of them, and then we did. They were highly educated; if they chose to be. That was all taken away and Bur-quas were made mandatory. 🥹🥹
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u/NestingDoll86 May 26 '24
Boys and girls (at least the children of commanders) went to (separate) schools. So the boys would learn to read at school. We see Hannah at the wife school looking at pictures, so the girls were given pictures for their lessons instead of learning to read.
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u/doesshechokeforcoke May 27 '24
The aunts are the only women who are allowed to read because they keep all the files on each handmaid with all of their information on them. They also keep logs of the pregnant handmaids when they do their “check ups” on them during pregnancy.
The reason they don’t want any women to read is because they want all the power and control over them.
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u/Itchy_Extent_7197 May 26 '24
The doctor was a woman therefore she could not remain a doctor, even one of the best there is.
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u/thepeoplessgt May 27 '24
I have always assumed that Gilead would keep what they considered “useful” women around. As others have mentioned maybe the Doctor led a quiet private life, nothing controversial by Gliead standards. I could see Commander Lawrence assigning her to duty as a Martha because what if Gilead needed an expert in her medical field? Why sentence her to a slow death in the colonies when she could kept alive cleaning someone’s house just in case the regime needs to consult her?
I suspect there are other female top experts in their field quietly scrubbing toilets in some Commander’s home because Gilead might actually need them? The guy who replaced them is probably third rate or the next best male candidate escaped to another country.
Another reason I suspect they keep the Doctor alive is because she is well known/high value. Apartheid South Africa couldn’t just kill Nelson Mandela with the whole world watching them. Gilead can’t just kill the top NeoNatal surgeon in the world with the international community taking notice. Gilead could trade her for spy for example.
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u/ProfPieixoto May 26 '24 edited May 26 '24
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u/user2345338 May 26 '24
i’ve just bought this book, i’m going to start it after i finish the series im currently reading hopefully it will answer a lot of my questions:)
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u/GayMan7834 May 27 '24
I feel the only female doctors that were punished or “purged” were ones who performed abortions. She must of not done anything the SOJ deemed as “sinful” besides having an education so they made her a Martha.
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u/Helpful_Wind284 May 27 '24
I could picture that was Lawrence's doing. They were both educated (he and his wife)and I can see him looking at her(the doctor's )credentials and saying I gotta put her in a position we can't lose her. I mean he helped Emily escape because she was unusually bright and he did want the world to lose her either. So yea, especially where he felt Gilead got away from him and he was trying to control the damage he had unleashed. Just my view.
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u/graceerobb May 27 '24
I recommend reading the Testaments (second book after handmaids tale) tells the origin story of the aunts/marthas and how they put women into categories. fabulous fabulous book i like it more than THT
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 May 26 '24
Commanders and their kids sons sometimes get sick. They'll need doctors, even if the doctor happens to be a woman. So, I'd imagine a lot of gifted female doctors ended up as Marthas under the "Rules for Thee, but not for Me." clause those in power so adore.
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u/user2345338 May 26 '24
no i don’t think that’s the reason since the martha doctor was refused work when angela was sick that’s why serena signed off for it pretending to be fred and he got mad and beat her
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u/Fancy-Ad1480 May 26 '24
Serena isn't a commander. She's a supporter of the face eating leopard club that is always so surprised when those leopards start eating her face. The point is...a commander's okay was all it took to get this female doctor working.
That he beat her afterward has really nothing to do with what the Martha was allowed to do. It had everything with the face eating leopard, aka Fred, showing Serena her place.
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May 27 '24
Only doctors who provided anti-natal services were punished with colony service and/or execution.
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u/JoanFromLegal May 28 '24
in season 2 when the putnems baby gets sick serena calls in for a martha who used to be a doctor to check out the baby. i’m confused because i thought any woman with that kind of education was sent to the colonies or got put on the wall.
It depends. [Just in case] The Martha who worked at Jezebels and then at the Lawrence's, the one that got executed after operation angel's flight? She was a chef. She explained to June that she was almost sent to the colonies because she had her tubes tied in The Time Before, but she parlayed her cooking skills into a job as a Martha.
And in the book, "loose, immoral women" like lawyers, bankers, and doctors are given a choice: colonies, handmaid (if they're fertile), or Jezebels. The majority pick Jezebels and this works out for the Commanders too because now they have women they can carry conversations with. Something they can't do with their ultra pious, illiterate wives.
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u/Odd_Light_8188 May 26 '24
Emily was a handmaid because she was a lesbian not because she was a teacher and educated. Had she not been fertile she would have been sent to the wall.