r/Invincible • u/mwthecool Omni-Mod • Nov 24 '23

Invincible [Episode Discussion] - S02E04 - It's Been a While EPISODE DISCUSSION

Episode 4 - It's Been a While!

Mark answers the call to save an alien species, but the mission has unexpected personal consequences.

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u/mmcintoshmerc_88 Battle Beast Nov 24 '23

"Give them 5 stars on Goodreads Mark! Some people didn't really get it and started review bombing them! Admittedly, the whole massacre thing didn't help but still, pulp Sci fi deserves an audience!"

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u/Smash_Z Nov 24 '23

I was wondering if some of Nolan's Viltrumite beliefs might have subtly seeped into his writings and led to certain tropes that modern critics might find distasteful.

One of them was called "Savage Planet, Savage Beasts" and I wonder what critics had to say about that lol.

"Amazing worldbuilding from Nolan Grayson, as always. The alien worlds and species he comes up with are always so creative and immersive. Once again, however, he struggles with his protagonist, another physically perfect specimen with little to root for. Also, the reoccurring rhetoric of the alien people as 'savages' and 'inferior' is almost problematic in places. 3/5"

Imagine Nolan getting canceled or something lol

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u/mmcintoshmerc_88 Battle Beast Nov 24 '23

"Obviously the book is really good but, this is the second book where a protagonist has forced their kids to fight wild creatures on the alien planet and has said 'Should they not survive, I will shed no tears for they are weak!' Again, the books are really good but does he realise Lord of the flies isn't a parenting manual?!"

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u/NerdLawyer55 Nov 24 '23

And then the protagonist fucked his pet which we felt was a bit problematic

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u/Alcaeus6 Nov 24 '23

Nitpick, but the kids in Lord of the Flies weren't intentionally stranded on the island, they only landed there because of an accidental plane crash and the first (living) adult on the island immediately mourns for the kids' situation

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u/Unicron_Gundam Nov 24 '23

it's like /u/mmcintoshmerc_88 didn't read Lord of the Flies before reading the Man with the Invincible Gun

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u/ViperrMageRB Nov 24 '23

I assume based off his emphasis on the books it’s gonna have some kind of clue on beating the viltrumites/how mark can get stronger or something along that vanes

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u/Mesk_Arak Nov 24 '23

I think that's pretty clear with how asking Mark to read his books would probably be the last thing on his mind at that moment, unless they contained something very important.

And then it's contrasted with Debbie throwing the whole set of books out at that very moment. I imagine Mark will have a hell of a time tracking those down to actually read them by the time he gets back to earth. Since it already took him 6 days to get there (with a working Thraxans ship that he might not have anymore), the books will be long gone.

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u/RecommendsMalazan Nov 24 '23

I got the impression that Nolan actually published those books, and Cecil used that as a way to give them money, aka an under the table way to pay him for his hero work.

If that's the case, then there should be no trouble finding these books to read. Unless whatever Mark needs to find out is in solely Nolans copies of the books.

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u/Mesk_Arak Nov 24 '23

I honestly always assumed that someone else was a ghost writer for those books as a cover for Nolan. After all, I assumed he didn't care / have time to write when he was out being a superhero.

I guess it's possible that he actually wrote them, but I assumed that "Read my books" was a way for Mark to go to those specific books and find whatever is inside, written in the margins, etc.

I say that because the show puts a lot of emphasis on Debbie putting the books away and deliberately shows them being placed on the sidewalk to be thrown away. I get the feeling those specific books will be important.

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u/RecommendsMalazan Nov 24 '23

Hmm, could be. But if that were the case I don't think they'd have made sure to show us they were retro sci fi books. That makes me think its gonna be something in the writing itself, whether training the main character goes through, or a race that's clearly an expy for the Vitrumites, whatever.

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u/someguyfromtheuk Nov 24 '23

I'm confused about the books, I could have sworn they said he wrote travel guides in season 1.

I guess "Savage Planet, Savage Beasts" could be a travel guide but the cover doesn't look like it and the title is kinda iffy for a travel guide lmao

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u/Thickenun Nov 25 '23

Cecil said his travel guides "always sold well" when he talked to Debbie about the book, so it could be Nolan's pulp sci fi was just relatively unpopular compared to those.

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u/JinFuu Dec 03 '23

Yep, that's the case. Nolan's sci-fi didn't sell well so he switched to travel books.

It's amusing to imagine the sci-fi stories have some cult following disappointed Nolan "sold out."

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u/neznetwork Nov 24 '23

I feel like it's rather gonna give mark directions on where they are taking him. Maybe it has some specific description of where Viltrum is or something

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u/Equal-Ad-2710 Omnipotus Nov 24 '23

Wait, I’m actually wondering this now

Was Nolan just some unhinged ass author??

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u/Billiammaillib321 Nov 24 '23 edited Nov 24 '23

Imagine Nolan wrote a lot of racist ass books, giving Lovecraft a run for his money.

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u/Wolf6120 Cecil Stedman Nov 24 '23

Even if they weren't racist, "The Man with the Invincible Gun" is just an absolutely terrible title for a book lol, so that probably din't help.

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u/Wolf6120 Cecil Stedman Nov 24 '23

I have to imagine his books were terrible if he only half-assed writing them between saving the world all the time (and maybe snuck in some secret clues for Mark along the way?)

It was more or less confirmed that Cecil was responsible for basically all the book sales in order to keep Nolan and his family financially situated, so it seems like they weren't exactly flying off the shelves on their own.

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u/Redditer51 Nov 25 '23

You read it and think to yourself "sheesh, Nolan. Maybe just stick to killing people. You're better at that."

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u/Redditer51 Nov 24 '23 edited Nov 24 '23

"There are some troubling theories on genetics as well as what some might call fascist undertones that might make one question what exactly the authors intent was, as well as the audience they were going for, bringing to mind the trappings of stories written 60 years ago, rather than a book written in 2021. One could argue the book is a critique of these ideas but theres nothing in the text suggesting that to be so. In fact some passages only seem to reinforce the idea of genetic superiority over certain beings. A very disappointing turn for an author as accomplished as Nolan Grayson."

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u/fschu_fosho Nov 24 '23

I couldn’t find the author on the promo photos but who was the author of those books, Nolan (supposedly writing fiction books) or Omni-Man (meaning, books were more auto-biographical)?

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u/Trvr_MKA Nov 24 '23

I thought Nolan was a travel author since he could review cities and learn about culture while scoping out their strengths and weaknesses for Viltrum.

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u/zarek1729 Nov 24 '23

"Look, as someone who also grew up watching Dragon Ball Z I understand the appeal of homaging its work by replicating the father son dynamics in his works, but at some point Mr. Grayson has to realize that Goku was not a good father. Maybe for the next book he should try to replicate Vegeta instead?"

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u/Sparl Nov 29 '23

Late to the party, but

Imagine Nolan getting canceled or something lol

Thats the true reason he turned, not the Vultrimite taking over the world reason but because he was on the verge of getting cancelled for his books.

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u/aeschenkarnos Nov 24 '23

Having to sit at the convention signing table with Piers Anthony and Philip Jose Farmer.

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u/everybodyisnobody2 Nov 24 '23

Debby was making good money with the books, which she no longer wanted

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u/Infamous_Education_9 Nov 26 '23

Five minutes later so is Earth.

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u/ThePAC_podcast Jan 02 '24

Considering the greater world dosen't know Nolan is actually Omni man, I dont think they'd make that kind of connection.

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u/ralanr Nov 24 '23

“And get JK Simmons to star as my protagonists if they’re made into a movie!”

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u/regretfulposts Doc Seismic Nov 24 '23

"Have him be the narrator for any audible releases!"

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u/OmniMushroom Nov 24 '23

'And if for whatever reason they make a documentary about me, I want JK Simmons to play me'

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u/StrenghtAndHonour Nov 24 '23

"Make sure Amazon produces the whole damn thing!"

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u/MandoAviator Nov 24 '23

And get me pictures of spider-man.

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u/Redditer51 Nov 24 '23

Nolan, Tenzin, the yellow M&M, the angry music teacher, and the Neo Nazi guy from Oz are just Variants of J Jonah Jameson.

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u/Redditer51 Nov 24 '23

"I should have won the Hugo award, Mark! John Scalzi is a hack! (As he's being carried to the Viltrumite ship) He's a hack!"

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u/Artsyboi117 Nov 24 '23

This is hilarious hahahahaha

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u/SquadPoopy Nov 24 '23

“Read my books Mark, honestly I think people were a bit too hard on Whispers of Eternity, I think if they gave it another read knowing the ending they’d appreciate it a bit more. I worked really hard on that one, in time I think it’ll become a modern classic but people really need to read it again.”

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u/Xciv Nov 24 '23

I just couldn't help myself. I read this in Rick Sanchez's voice.

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u/ShinHayato Nov 24 '23

I read this in Rick’s voice for some reason haha