r/Invincible • u/mwthecool Omni-Mod • Nov 17 '23

Invincible [Episode Discussion] - S02E03 - This Missive, This Machination! EPISODE DISCUSSION

Episode 3 - This Missive, This Machination!

Mark starts his college career, Debbie struggles with personal trauma, and Allen the Alien returns home to find a new threat facing the Coalition of Planets.

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334

u/Smash96leo Invincible Nov 17 '23

Theo really a dickhead for reacting like that ngl. I know he’s in pain too, but jesus man.

238

u/Kiranipator Nov 17 '23

Man really ignored the fact that she mentioned how Mark was almost beat to death by Nolan too. At least GG went out quickly but Mark took more hits than all the Guardians combined. Plus she has to live with the fact that all those people died cause of the man she loved

217

u/Napalmeon Nov 17 '23

People want somebody to blame in situations like this. Nolan disappeared, so, his wife standing right in front of one of the spouses of the victims? She's the closest person to blame.

64

u/2SP00KY4ME Nov 17 '23

Plus, being married to him for 20 years, I can see how it'd be hard for him to believe she truly knew nothing. I could probably convince myself that she must've known something was wrong about him and just hid it.

53

u/Lucifer_Crowe Nov 17 '23

Funny thing is Nolan probably didn't show warning signs anytime before Mark got his powers

He just learned to vibe and enjoy his little holiday human life because it happened quickly for him

37

u/Whiteout- Nov 17 '23

Exactly, he's what, hundreds? Thousands? of years old, for him 17 years would feel like a day or two for a human. For him it would feel like how we feel when we fake a cordial personality at work.

15

u/Yemenime Nov 18 '23

What's another 17 years?

3

u/[deleted] Nov 21 '23

I don't think that's how your life span that large would work.

Yeah time seems to get faster The more you age, But it's not like everything's playing fast forward for a Viltrumite.

2

u/Blackicecube Dec 02 '23

That's exactly how it would work though. The more years your brain has to draw on, the less relative time a certain part of your life feels like. 5 year Olds, a hour is forever. 10 is a month. 15 a year is a long time. 20 5 years and so on. When your old af, 20 years would be a blip in his memories.

17

u/Kiranipator Nov 17 '23

Makes sense. Hopefully we see him come back after he’s cooled off

-1

u/Sahm_1982 Nov 21 '23

Doesn't make his assholeness acceptable

51

u/stone500 Nov 17 '23

I mean it's basically the same situation for parents of kids who became a school shooter. There's an argument to be made that they should've seen the signs and did something to stop the would-be killers.

And sure, the parents or spouses of the killers need support, but they ain't gonna get it from friends and family of the victims.

15

u/InternalParadox Monster Girl and Robot Nov 17 '23

That’s the exact analogy I was thinking.

6

u/LilGyasi Nov 20 '23

Damn this does put things into perspective

2

u/Zolado110 Dec 17 '23

Ok, to be fair, red rush's girlfriend/wife treated her really well even though she knew everything.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 17 '23

[deleted]

5

u/SlouchyGuy Nov 17 '23

In case of one of mothers of the shooters, she's a narcissist, signs were there, she ignored them completely, and can't take any responsibility post-factum either: "Things just happen out of nowhere"

7

u/Strong_Schedule5466 Nov 18 '23

Not only that. Nolan LITERALLY DESTROYED A TRAIN FULL OF PEOPLE USING MARK

3

u/spin81 Nov 19 '23

Plus she has to live with the fact that all those people died cause of the man she loved

And that she lived under one roof with the guy not realizing what an actual space Nazi he was.

2

u/NinjaMelon39 Nov 21 '23

Mark was literally a punching bag for that entire fight and still came out the other side, meanwhile all of the guardians got super fast deaths

27

u/notQuiteApex Nov 17 '23

part of it definitely seems to be that he isnt really handling what happened very well either. hes still super bitter about his partners death and still mad at her. i hope we get to see that explored.

debbie really needs a break though :(

23

u/FaithfulBarnabas Nov 17 '23

I would agree but I think many would react similarly if their spouse was slaughtered. Why didn’t you know! You should have. I’m sure spouses of serial killers who also never knew faced similar accusations

18

u/Bbgirl4lato Nov 17 '23

Yeah this wouldn't have happened if he wasn't a rule breaking little shit, admitting who his spouse was to a fresh new member who wasn't prepared to know. He opened up to the worst possible person

16

u/panda388 Nov 17 '23

Right? "You should have known". Bitch, the entire fucking planet did not know that Omniman was evil.

3

u/Spider-Man-fan Nov 19 '23

Yeah but I mean she’s still closer to him more than anyone, so I can understand why Theo would feel that way. But he was still a dick about it.

10

u/SDRPGLVR Nov 18 '23

FR, he even said "oops, just broke the biggest rule of group."

Like of course that's why it's a rule at a support group revolving around being the spouse of a superhero. He's such an asshole for casually breaking that rule, especially with a new member.

3

u/CrackBabyCSGO Nov 19 '23

People in pain make bad decisions. I don’t think anyone is to blame it will just take time.

10

u/JiggyTurtle Nov 17 '23

You can tell he's in pain by the flat acting

10

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '23

And how did Olga not see that coming?

Bad reccomendation.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 22 '23

This was my first thought as well

8

u/Indigocell Nov 18 '23

Yeah, plus saying it wouldn't be a "safe space" with her there was a thinly veiled threat.

4

u/Joeybfast Nov 18 '23

That wasn't a threat, he is saying it wouldn't be safe for other people .

3

u/ZachLaVine4MVP Nov 18 '23

Such a fucking douche, him lashing out at Debbie at the end just made me hate him

1

u/watashi_ga_kita Nov 22 '23

I mean it's basically the same situation for parents of kids who became a school shooter. There's an argument to be made that they should've seen the signs and did something to stop the would-be killers.

And sure, the parents or spouses of the killers need support, but they ain't gonna get it from friends and family of the victims.

This comment helps puts things in perspective, I think.

1

u/NevisYsbryd Nov 26 '23

It does not because it is wrong. Parents actually created much of the environment and nurturing that a shooter is brought up in. They unequivocably contributed to the development of a child into that person, or was neglectfully absent in their involvement to prevent it to at least some degree.

Debbie did not raise Nolan from birth. Virtually no one suspected Nolan, including the Guardians. Debbie did not have not have adequate information to be reasonably expected to be able to predict this, had insufficient power to prevent it at any point (Nolan was planning this before Debbie was born), and was herself abandoned, ostracized, and left with a fractured home by Nolan's actions. Of what we have seen of Debbie's past, her influence on Nolan through Mark is why Nolan is gentler and left rather than raze Earth as he initially intended.

A closer equivolency is blaming the one fellow student was kind to the shooter and attempted to stop them.

2

u/watashi_ga_kita Nov 26 '23

Surely not all parents of school shooters were abusive, right? But even then you can substitute some mall shooter or something to keep the example relevant.

And similar to how you can say the parents should have known something was up, you can similarly saw Debbie should have known something was up. It doesn't matter if she didn't raise Nolan. She was his partner for multiple decades. Being his partner and the person he was supposed to be closest with, she was in the best position to figure out something was amiss.

Now, we know the full story. That Nolan had planned to capture earth for the Viltrumite Empire and had planned to from the beginning. That she was absolutely blindsided and was kept in the dark until it was too late. That the reason Nolan ended up leaving was that their son.

We know the full context. But do you think Theo did? Do you think any regular person did? Do they even know what a Viltrumite is? Do you think he knew that Nolan planned on subjugating earth from the beginning? Most of the details would have been kept from the public. So if he's not aware of everything that went down, it shouldn't be surprising that he thinks she should have known better. That she shares some of the blame, just like we would like to give her some of the credit for how Mark turned out.

Even if he didn't blame her, it would be very natural to not want her around. He did something stupid by breaking the rules they were given about personal info but Debbie was a bigger idiot for doing the same, given her situation.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 18 '23

I don't think that's a very fair judgement.

1

u/Bippityboo62 Nov 21 '23

I’d really like to see how he’d pull that shit with Mark.

“You should’ve known your father was a murderer.”

“Yeah, I should’ve…and not only did he beat the ever living shit out of me, but he used me as a literal battering Ram with a train, killed hundreds of people with my own body, and all I could do was fucking watch…you think you have it bad? I’ll never be able to get that image out of my head!”

1

u/bakakubi Nov 23 '23

Yup, made him look like a real POS imo

-1

u/TLAW1998 Nov 17 '23

Nah he's being rational. If someone murdered my wife, I wouldn't want to associate with their spouse.

30

u/QuantumTuna Nov 17 '23

I wouldn’t call it rational, but it is completely understandable. I still feel bad for Debbie, though :(

15

u/Christron Nov 17 '23

And is the responsible for the death of thousands and large amounts of destruction. Being around Debbie would probably be a huge trigger and he probably has intense PTSD

-6

u/ILoveRegenHealth Nov 17 '23

You're getting downvoted by 21 year old Redditors who think they have it all figured out in life.

7

u/azeTrom Nov 18 '23

Nah it isn't 'rational' to yell at another victim of the guy that ruined your life because they're associated with the victim. Sure, maybe being around them is a painful reminder so you have to leave.

But making them more miserable, blaming them, threatening them? Entirely irrational. Though as others have said it's understandable. People don't always do rational things when struggling with intense grief....

6

u/deadeyeamtheone Nov 18 '23

No, you're both getting downvoted by people who recognize a lack of empathy, even in a crisis, is extremely fucked and unacceptable. The entire planet somehow didn't know OM was bad, it's absolutely stupid AF to blame his wife for not knowing, even if it is understandable.

1

u/Rodiwe008 Nov 18 '23

And even worse when we, as audience, can see the amount of pain she is dealing right now. I mean, the dude was kinda dick, but he has somewhat of a point (since he's in pain too)

3

u/Haltopen Nov 20 '23

His actions are understandable, but that doesnt make them acceptable or right. People can do terrible things when motivated by pain and suffering, and theo was absolutely being an asshole.

1

u/immorjoe Nov 20 '23

Acceptable or right, no. But I do think you could argue that they’re rational in some way. We get to see and know without doubt that he tricked her. But as anyone else, it would be hard to think they spent all that time together and she knew nothing?

2

u/Haltopen Nov 20 '23

Id argue its the opposite. The people we trust the most are in the best position to mislead, lie or hide things from us specifically because we don't suspect them of having ill intent. We trust the, we let our guard down around them.

To highlight an example, over 90% of child abductions in the united states are committed by a parent of said child or relative of said child. We're taught that the threat of abduction comes from people we dont trust, but the biggest risk is from people we're implicitly taught to trust more than anyone.

1

u/immorjoe Nov 20 '23

That’s true. But they are also the people you know best. If someone is a world conquering killer, your first thought won’t be “I doubt the partner knew” after they’ve spent almost 20 years together.

People also defend either themselves or their loved ones to the extent of overlooking incredible flaws.