r/FluentInFinance • u/The-Lucky-Investor • 13d ago

“Medicare for All” would save the U.S $5.1 Trillion over 10 years Discussion/ Debate

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2018/11/30/easy-pay-something-costs-less-new-study-shows-medicare-all-would-save-us-51-trillion
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u/GeekShallInherit 12d ago

If anything, additions such as max out of pocket and increased coverage for preventative care should have reduced such costs. Feel free to provide a single shred of evidence otherwise.

I can tell you total household spending on healthcare accounted for an average of 29.6% of healthcare spending in the decade before the ACA went into effect; 28% since.

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u/Old_Height_8351 12d ago

If you hit your deductible, it doesn’t mean your out of pocket expenses are 0 now. You could still have a coinsurance.

We can both agree we spend a lot on healthcare. The point of the article was to highlight how getting rid of insurance can reduce expenses. Maybe that’s true long term. I’m all for insurance companies not creating the barriers they do and increasing the price of healthcare. I also don’t think we’ll ever have Medicare for all so this is just an interesting thought experiment

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u/GeekShallInherit 12d ago

If you hit your deductible, it doesn’t mean your out of pocket expenses are 0 now. You could still have a coinsurance.

And you could before, too, it just started at a lower level and went to a higher level. Again, feel free to provide a single shred of evidence it's increased. Especially given we know total healthcare spending is lower than it would have been by historical norms; we know the total proportion of costs paid by households has gone down.

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u/Old_Height_8351 12d ago

I’m not disagreeing with you there, chill lol.

I see the data you provided and assume it’s accurate. But there’s also the fact that medical bankruptcies are about the same before and after the ACA (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6366487/). And healthcare is still rising every year as a % of GDP.

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u/GeekShallInherit 12d ago

Nobody said that the ACA was the end all, be all of healthcare reform, and in fact there is still a tremendous amount that should be done.

The argument is just that things are better than they would have been if nothing had been done. If insurance costs were higher, deductibles were higher, total spending was higher, fewer preventative services were required to be provided with no copay, lifetime spending caps still existed, exclusions for pre-existing conditions didn't exist, tax advantaged HSAs didn't exist, etc..

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u/Old_Height_8351 12d ago

I agree with you there. Lots needs to be done.

My personal opinion is that people need to be in charge of their own health and really work towards a healthy lifestyle. If that doesn’t happen I doubt costs ever go down. Demand keeps rising because Americans are extremely unhealthy

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u/GeekShallInherit 12d ago

eople need to be in charge of their own health and really work towards a healthy lifestyle. If that doesn’t happen I doubt costs ever go down.

I mean, people being healthier is great, but that's not likely to reduce costs.

The UK recently did a study and they found that from the three biggest healthcare risks; obesity, smoking, and alcohol, they realize a net savings of £22.8 billion (£342/$474 per person) per year. This is due primarily to people with health risks not living as long (healthcare for the elderly is exceptionally expensive), as well as reduced spending on pensions, income from sin taxes, etc..

Demand keeps rising because Americans are extremely unhealthy

Yeah... not why costs are rising in the US. In fact, we're not really receiving more healthcare for any reason than our peers, we're just wildly overpaying for it.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2674671?redirect=true

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u/Old_Height_8351 12d ago

Very interesting article thanks for sharing. The article mentioned administrative costs as being a large burden in the US. If there is less patient demand, maybe admin costs go down? Maybe not a lot of juice there but the reason admin overhead is so high is because of insurance companies and govt policies.

They mentioned higher testing of MRIs. My take is that it is higher in the US because we’re litigious and doctors want to cover their asses from malpractice suits.

There are myriad reasons we’re overpaying. We also receive phenomenal quality. The saying goes you pay for quality. We’re certainly getting diminished returns there