r/Fallout • u/certain_random_guy MOD ALL THE THINGS • Apr 18 '18
More than an announcement of FO5 or ESVI, I want Bethesda to come out at E3 and say, "Guys, we built a new engine." Suggestion
Let us climb ladders.
Let there be load zones bigger than a building, bigger than a small region. Hell, let there be no load zones.
Let there be a better framework for character animation.
Let us climb through windows.
Let us vault over fences.
Let us drop prone & crawl.
Let us fly vertibirds.
Let us drive cars or motorcycles, or, gasp ride actual bikes, or double gasp horses (radstallions?).
This isn't revolutionary stuff anymore. There's a lot of games and engines that handle them really well. Hell, Guerilla Games was giving away the engine they used on Horizon: Zero Dawn. Please spend the time and money to invest in your own products and bring them up to par mechanically.
We will love you for it.
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Apr 18 '18
A new engine is a personal prerequisite for a new ES game. Skyrim was massive and awesome, but the engine certainly feels dated. A new ES game would deserve something new that really breathes life into the world and its interactivity.
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u/MadMageMC Apr 18 '18
And brings us back a magic system that actually felt dynamic and worth investing into, unlike what we've been given since Morrowind.
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Apr 18 '18
I never played Morrowind but will agree, even the changes between Oblivion and Skyrim were regressive in my opinion. Especially now that I've played ESO where the magic feels diverse. I've never quite understood why Destruction is only fire, lightning and frost. Why not earth, etc.? I would absolutely play a Wood Elf that magically lobs boulders at innocent bystanders.
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u/TheRealTurdFergusonn FOR ELDER MAXSON! Apr 18 '18
Yeah, the steps back in the magic/spell system from Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim are so sad. I really miss making a spell that summons a full suit of Daedric armor and a minion, it always made you feel like you were such a badass.
Random bad guy: “Hey let’s go rob this dorky looking guy in the robe!”
You: casts spell
Random bad guy: OH SHIT SHIT SHIT
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u/romeoinverona Lover's Embrace Apr 18 '18
I loved bound weapons and summoning in Skyrim. I think it would be awesome to flesh that playstyle out. Let me go around in robes all the time, until I enter combat, and then I summon magical armor and weapons, along with an atronach to serve me.
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u/leftshoe18 Apr 18 '18
You could do that in Oblivion and Morrowind. It was awesome.
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u/romeoinverona Lover's Embrace Apr 18 '18
I've been meaning to get those for a while now.
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u/SunshineSubstrate Apr 19 '18
Oblivion is totally fucking worth it, morrowind is kind of clunky and slow but a better game story wise.
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u/JhnWyclf Apr 19 '18
Everything but ease of play and default graphics are better in Morrowind.
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u/Baublehead Apr 19 '18
And, in the spirit of the thread, there are mods that fix that!
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Apr 19 '18 edited Jan 10 '19
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u/romeoinverona Lover's Embrace Apr 19 '18
Any overhauls/updates/patches you would recommend? Even for a 1st playthrough?
Are skywind or skyblivion out yet?
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u/WagshadowZylus Apr 18 '18
in case you're interested in modding, I can recommnend "Ordinator - Perks of Skyrim", for summoning specifically it lets you walk around with a skeleton army you build from the bones of your fallen enemies, and lets you automatically summon skeever spirits when enterning combat and such!
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u/romeoinverona Lover's Embrace Apr 18 '18
I need to try a full playthrough with that sometime. maybe this summer.
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u/Kullthebarbarian Not Vault 111 Apr 19 '18
it is fun untill your skeletons start to block everything, since passageways, doors, and corridors, and oh, dont even start on the passageway to the mage college, i never teleport there with my skeleton army because they always clump thogueter on that bridge, i have to teleport to the city and walk from there every time i want to go to the college.
meanwhile, if you are looking at more awesome spells look for "Apocalypse - Magic of Skyrim" its a awesome mod that add tons of new awesome spells
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u/odd-otter Apr 18 '18
Can’t you do that though with the alteration spells? I mean unless you mean that summoning a literal magic suit of armor
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u/DefiantLemur Operators Apr 18 '18
You literally summon a magic set of heavy armor that doesn't count as armor but is armor. Power ranger/sailor moon style.
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u/Stereo_Panic Apr 18 '18
You could also cast your spells so that they were stronger but for a shorter duration for example. So you could get a +1 sword for 24 hours or a +5 sword for 1 minute. But if you summoned the best stuff you could and then dropped it on the ground and then slept... the summoned stuff would still be there. Basically the game would only unsummon an item if it was in your possession. So now the item was permanent.
And thus began a great slaughter across the land as Newby McNewb face cut down legions with his +20 glowing axe made of pure magical energy and clad head to toe in +20 glowing magical plate armor.
And then there was skooma, before it got nerfed! Ah but that's a whole different topic.
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u/RelentlesslyDead Brotherhood of Feels Apr 19 '18
Skooma used to do something? Please do tell!
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u/Lord_Phoenix95 Apr 19 '18
Increased Speed because we had Attributes like Luck, Speed, Acrobatics, Strength and so on. It was basically D&D style gameplay. I hope I'm not gonna get r/whoooosed.
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u/romeoinverona Lover's Embrace Apr 18 '18
I did enjoy the various mageflesh spells, but I feel like the armor would be more thematic. Have some ghostly daedric armor to match my ghostly daedric weapons.
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u/realblaketan Apr 18 '18
My personal favorite spell was the lightning bolt and invisibility for 2 seconds. It was enough to totally abuse the enemy AI. I called it Flash Lightning.
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u/milkdude94 NCR Apr 18 '18
I used to use the soul trap glitch to spawn in armies of daedra permanently. Once i beat the game i would spawn in my armies, become a werewolf and slaughter towns and villages from Gnisis to Vivec.
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u/PartiesLikeIts1999 Apr 18 '18
Not ESO, but my favorite thing to do in Skyrim before Dawnguard was turn into a werewolf on one side of the map, and do a marathon to the other side, killing and feasting on whatever unfortunate meals I ran into on the way
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u/Dstanding Apr 18 '18
Fire, lightning, and frost are easy to treat as ephemeral or transient phenomena. It would look weird if you conjured rocks out of nowhere, and rocks disappeared after a few seconds. Earth lends itself to more permanent effects that can be complicated to implement and taxing on the system.
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u/OtakuMecha Apr 19 '18
I would also like to have it where you have to use your magic in combination with the environment or at least other spells to come up with more interesting strategies than just "point at the enemy and hold the attack button"
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u/Mygaffer Apr 18 '18
I loved the magic in Morrowind. I would cast jump, jump like one football field's length, then use an amulet to cast feather fall while in the air (didn't want to risk that spell failing mid jump).
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u/Burly_Jim Apr 18 '18
I'd like a combat system that's less shit in general. Melee has no weight and barely any skill to it.
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Apr 18 '18
The problem I found with Morrowind's magic system was that you could become unbelievably overpowered with making your own spells and enchantments. Like I was basically deleting entire cities by the end lol
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Apr 18 '18
That's not a problem. Your character in ES games as lore goes makes you strong enough to fight Daedric Princes. Morrowind was the only game that allowed you to do those things. Using Skyrim lore, Clavicus Vile even says in the Barbas quest that you are almost as strong as he is. Your character has access to Daedric Prince artifacts which by themselves make the user practically invulnerable. The artifacts are much weaker than they should be. Mehrune Dagon's dagger instantly kills the person attacted by the blade, but at best there is only a 10-15% chance of that happening in any of the games. The fun items and magic in the game can ruin game play for some people, but it should be fixed by making it much more time consuming to get overpowered stuff so the people who really want to use it can get it and people can't complain how easy the game is because they are willingly playing to get an item which could make the who game trivial.
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Apr 19 '18
Honestly, I get that but it still felt lazy. Morrowind was one of the best RPGs of all time but the one criticism I have of it was the fact that if I wanted a challenge I basically had to just use standard spells/items because if I could, I'd become a literal god. And how can you kill a god? What a grand and intoxifying innocence.
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u/gamerdude97 Apr 18 '18
Honestly they could really expand on the magic system since swords and bows aren't as hard to do, plus they have the experience. I think a magic system that lets you use any spell would be the best. Each spell has a main school of magic and descending affinity to each school, depending on what it is. Keep the dual wielding but have two slots for each hand, so you can equip two on one and combine them. Obviously this would make it very labor intensive, but you could always make one visual effect not show or not make an animation for each one. Idk how they would do perks though.
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u/avisioncame Apr 18 '18
Oblivions engine was pretty amazing at the time. Skyrim I was like really?!
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u/Dantalion_Delacroix Enclave Apr 18 '18
Hey guys! We built a new engine, and we have an announcement to make.
I present to you, the new Elder Scrolls game: Skyrim, re-engined! That's right, we rebuilt Skyrim from the ground up with this new technology, exactly the same as before, with all of the bugs and features that you've grown to love. Also we added lootboxes that give you mods.
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u/amalgam_reynolds Welcome Home Apr 18 '18
A new engine is a personal prerequisite for a new ES game.
Ditto. Morrowind was the game the game that got me into RPGs, not Balder's Gate or Warcraft or anything. But if TES VI comes out with anything less than a new engine, I'm just going to pass.
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u/LeCrushinator Apr 18 '18
After playing Zelda: BoTW, Skyrim feels static and it's frustrating to not be able to climb, glide, crawl, knock down a tree, start shit on fire. Skyrim definitely feels dated to me, it's hard to go back and play it now. Same with FO4, another static world with some NPCs and items in it. I want to use the world to my benefit, knock an NPC into a river to drown it, mow down trees that could crash down on NPCs, etc.
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u/Gunner_McNewb Yes Man Apr 18 '18
They already said that the tech didn't already exist to make the game, so they pretty much said they were developing a new engine.
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Apr 18 '18
That was my thought as well. That or VR. And I hope to god the engine was prioritized over VR lol.
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u/Mygaffer Apr 18 '18
Bethesda forked Gamebryo and called it Creation engine.
That's almost certainly what they'll be using in TESVI.
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u/Jeffy29 Apr 19 '18
I honestly hope they have better sense than that. There are fundamental scaling and object problems that massively limit design scape. Gamebryo will never ever allow cities the size of Novigrad or houses without loading. It will never ever allow huge battles and I could go on and on.
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u/flipdark95 Brotherhood I make stuff I guess Apr 19 '18
There are fundamental scaling and object problems that massively limit design scape.
Which won't go away just because a different engine is involved. The reason Novigrad is so hugely detailed is because there's a lot less interactivity and interaction going on.
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u/th3b0sss Apr 18 '18
Or how about MY TRAVEL COMPANION NOT THROWING GRENADES AT ME WHILE I MEELEE THE ENEMY
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u/Annihilator4413 Apr 18 '18
Made the mistake of giving a companion Nuka Grenades because I thought it would be fun. Never again.
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Apr 18 '18
Im gonna sneak through this are-
Supermutant: -WHAT? A HUMAN?
Launches a mini-nuke in your face from somewhere
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u/PartiesLikeIts1999 Apr 18 '18
Some common sense not to use explosives at close range in general.
I like you Nick, but I'll never forget that Fatman launch in Far Harbor
We were in a house
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u/beemario Apr 18 '18
Was hanging at my base with some followers and companions when a stray rad stag turns up, one of the followers gets my nukes and the launcher AND FUCKIN NUKES THE RADSTAG.
Had to hide my stuff after that.
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u/th3b0sss Apr 19 '18
Yes, a whole settlement turned on me that I had to repopulate from the ground up after a nasty genocide for that exact reason.
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u/th3b0sss Apr 18 '18
If u have robotics and nuka world expansion, you can mod your companion to shoot explosive minigun rounds AND nuka quantum grenades. I have no allies anymore due to crossfire, and I've died several times at his hands.
You can also mod them to heal you out of combat, so I don't even carry stimpacks anymore (note: I only play survival)
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Apr 18 '18
How about not giving them grenades to begin with?
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u/donkeybuns Apr 18 '18
But I want to give them grenades myself. I just want them to be smart enough to not lob them right towards me.
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u/Mikek224 Apr 18 '18
If all the engine does is have proper optimization across the board, then I will be super happy.
edit: Forgot modding. Modding and optimization is all I need to be happy.
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u/TheAntiPacker Apr 19 '18
For real. The fact that i can't get 60fps in Boston on my 1070 rig is absurd.
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u/Stormbrewer23 Yes Man Apr 18 '18
They're not going to yet considering Todd Howard said they slightly updated their animations
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u/certain_random_guy MOD ALL THE THINGS Apr 18 '18
I don't think they'll actually do it. But I still wish for it.
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u/MrSeksy Apr 18 '18
They’re probably going to just update the current engine a tad bit, again.
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u/terminbee Apr 19 '18
I bet when my children finally get to play ES 7 it's still gonna be on the same engine.
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u/yaosio Vault 111 Apr 18 '18
He said they are making a new animation system for a game in pre-development.
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u/NerdRising I broke the game Apr 18 '18
Either him or Pete Hines said that the techonology for TES 6 isn't there yet, and they have a couple large projects befor they start working on 6 yet. They could be working on a new engine, or already done.
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u/raff_riff Apr 18 '18
I’d like to read more. Got a sauce?
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u/TrappinT-Rex Apr 18 '18
I'm not seeing anything about technology being the limiting factor. Hines talked about the fact that Bethesda Game Studios doesn't only want to be known as a Fallout and Skyrim factory which is why ESVI isn't imminent.
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u/r40k Apr 18 '18
The technology is 100% absolutely there and has been for a while. Bethesda just lacks either the ability or the drive to utilize it.
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u/NerdRising I broke the game Apr 18 '18
Hence why they might be working on a new engine. The technology is there, it's just that Bethesda hasn't used it before.
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u/TheDewyDecimal It's said war never changes. Men do, through the roads they walk Apr 18 '18
I personally think Todd's technology comment is specifically referring to a new engine. The concepts they have played around with for TES 6 are not possible on the current engine.
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u/Jeffy29 Apr 19 '18 edited Apr 19 '18
Like large scale battle, completely impossible in gamebryo because framerate tanks, npcs stupid behavior gets even dumber as 10+ of them try to do same thing and everyone is running like headless chicken.
Oh and I forgot, GIANT WORLDS. I remember like it was yesterday when it was announced when fallout IP purchase was announced, I was imagining how fallout 3D would look and the main desire was able to drive the Hummer (from fallout tactics) on vast open desert, with your dog and companions. Yet F3 was positively cramped, that’s not the world of fallout where you have big distances from cities.
A giant world with more spread out content would make the world feel the world more realistic, the climate transitions wouldn’t be so jarring. Playing Witcher or Kingdom Come, it felt so great to get completely lost in the woods with hundreds of trees around me, makes the world feel enormous and realistic.
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u/E-STiNG Apr 19 '18
I agree about a more spread out world, I would love that. Especially fallout 4 felt so cramped. I want a world where it actually feels like you are a wanderer, not a stroller.
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u/DeadeyeDuncan Apr 18 '18
Their parent company owns id., I don't see why they just can't get id. to do their animations for them.
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u/GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B Apr 18 '18
Todd wants his own team on his own games. Having Id help out with Fallout gun mechanics is one thing. Animations are an integral part of the engine, so leaving them to somebody else is like allowing an organ transplant on yourself while healthy (worst case scenario Mass Effect Andromeda).
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u/Xenbrus Apr 18 '18
Robin Scott, the founder of Nexus Mods, expressed apprehension at the idea. He feared that Bethesda would go full greed mode, and deliberately made an engine that was difficult to mod by independent users, to better promote future attempts at controlled paid mods.
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u/Lovz2Killz Apr 18 '18
Skyrim for your phone. Just wait.
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u/meco03211 Apr 18 '18
I'd love it if they trolled with this. Skyrim for your phone, tablet, car, refrigerator. Jk it's ESVI.
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u/CheezeyCheeze Apr 19 '18
Why can't Skyrim run on Android?
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Apr 19 '18
If it can run on the Switch there’s really no reason it can’t run on a current gen phone or tablet.
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u/GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B Apr 18 '18
Yes. And you know what? You might have a bad day once in a while. A weak moment. And in that moment, you might buy it again. And you'll remember Todd saying: "Who's laughing now?"
I love Skyrim and sank more hours into it than is healthy. I still watch content on YouTube, but I no longer play it. But for the love of what is good and right, Bethesda needs to stop milking it.
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Apr 18 '18
If the price is right, I wouldn't even be that mad. Skyrim is better than most mobile games anyways.
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u/turdmogrol Welcome Home Apr 19 '18
Skyrim is better than most mobile games anyways.
Well, yeah, but that's not a very fair contrast to make.
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u/Aufinator Apr 18 '18
We joke but that's probably possible considering skyrim has been ported to the switch.
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u/HarderstylesD Apr 18 '18
Let us adjust FOV in game without having to edit .ini files or use external programs + same situation for x/y mouse sensitivity scaling + acceleration.
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u/KilotonDefenestrator Apr 18 '18
And holstered weapons!
And please, let me play any character I want, be it a trader, mercenary, raider, scavenger or ghoul. Let the story be about the world and the choices you have to make, not a forced character with a relative gone missing.
And as someone said, no modding = no purchase. I'm not pre-ordering FO5, I'm waiting until the editor is out. Because after the creation club shenanigans I have serious doubts about the franchise.
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Apr 18 '18
They have to provide some kind of background and framework for the storyline. They also do have to have a storyline. Those are non negotiable points from a wider market perspective, but I don't know why Bethesda reused that same plot in both of their Fallouts.
As to holstering, I don't even understand that in 4. They had it in 3 and in Skyrim.
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u/KilotonDefenestrator Apr 18 '18
I don't think the background has to be about the player, it could be about the events of the world. What are the current factions and what are their agendas and conflicts, what events, good and bad, has transpired.
Then drop the player in there and let them pick sides and make choices on what lines to cross to survive, to thrive and to change the world the way they think is best.
The story doesn't have to be about the main characters background.
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u/mastersword130 Apr 18 '18
I have no idea why they took away holstered weapons and made us mod it to get it back in the game. I love modding my new Vegas game to get cool looking holsters for my rifles and pistols.
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u/Blenderhead36 You have lost Karma Apr 18 '18
Is there a generic "your gun gets holstered" mod now? Last I checked there were just costume pieces you could equip that mimicked a holstered gun.
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u/Treyman1115 Apr 19 '18
You need to make models for all the weapons and you also need to make separate models with mods on them. It's why there's not just a simple holstered weapons mod. It'll equip and unequip from your back when you holster or equip the weapon
Visible Weapons along with other mods does this. There's also not really animations for holstering though
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u/pm_me_your_Yi_plays Apr 18 '18
Tbh the Nerevarine prophecies literally said that he has to be born on a known day to unknown parents
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u/stirls4382 Apr 18 '18
Give me all the Fallout vibes and mechanics and the engine slickness of Far Cry 5 + Vats and I'd be so happy..
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Apr 19 '18
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u/Robo-Erotica Apr 19 '18
Oh boy a lot sure has changed in 8 years...
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u/Vendetta1990 Apr 20 '18
Actually, we did have at least a faint hope of HL3 releasing.
Not anymore though.
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u/JakalDX Aradesh died for this shit Apr 19 '18
FFX had a great fuckin' story. The fact that they think Tidus traveled through time makes me wonder if they just stopped halfway through.
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Apr 18 '18
Horses are extinct. But I support your ideals.
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u/SuckMyDerivative Apr 18 '18
Ride a Brahimn, I've seen them spring pretty quickly when they need to
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u/God-Pop Apr 19 '18
They can also climb anything on the current engine, unlike the main character.
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u/StNowhere G.O.A.T. Whisperer Apr 18 '18
So were cats but that didn't stop them from coming back in F4.
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u/OtakuMecha Apr 19 '18
Cats are less lore-breaking because they don't have the same impact that horses would. Cats are just pets while horses would be of the most in-demand beasts of burden for basically anyone.
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u/certain_random_guy MOD ALL THE THINGS Apr 18 '18
That seems like something it'd be really fun to retcon.
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u/UNC_Samurai Apr 18 '18
A system for building and tweaking motorcycles (kind of like how power armor is handled in FO4) would be fun, and it doesn't require retconning.
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u/Aufinator Apr 18 '18
yeah this uhhh scientist recreated horses here have fun in Horse World where the horses are "just the right height no bucket required."
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u/LaPetiteMorty Apr 18 '18
We had robot Gorillas in FO4, why not robot horses
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u/WyrdHarper Apr 18 '18
Nuka World added a device that allows cloning of any species; just need DNA.
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u/Moulinoski Mr. House Apr 18 '18
I just want their humans to look nice and not like nightmare fuel. Well, guess that’s why we can play on PC and use the beautiful people mods.
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Apr 19 '18
IMAGINE CITIES WITH MORE THAN TEN NPCs.
Sorry I’m being a bit dramatic. Imagine a city with more than FIFTEEN NPCs.
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u/certain_random_guy MOD ALL THE THINGS Apr 19 '18
Bahahahaha. Yeah. They need to take a lesson from Novigrad.
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Apr 18 '18
"We solved the engine problem by reducing game complexity until they were just standard first person shooters, then we licensed Unreal Engine."
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u/MadMageMC Apr 18 '18
As glitchy as FC5 has occassionally been, at least I can climb ladders, grapple and use zip lines, climb through windows, vault pretty much anything, climb just about anything, and drive damn near everything. It's stupid the Bethesda Games engine hasn't been kept up with the industry in these regards.
Also, maybe look at some other real world, scifi. & game sources for what the world might actually look like TWO HUNDRED YEARS after a nuclear holocaust. I guarantee you there'd be a hell of a lot more vegetation than we've ever seen in an FO title. It wasn't an issue when we were in the desert, but we haven't been in the desert for two major titles now.
Oh - and FC5 also had the quest where you found crates of records to improve the radio station. That's something we asked for all the way back in FO3!
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u/Kill_Welly Apr 18 '18
maybe look at some other real world, scifi. & game sources for what the world might actually look like TWO HUNDRED YEARS after a nuclear holocaust
The Fallout games have never had any interest in what the world might actually look like after a nuclear apocalypse.
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u/OriginalDogan Apr 19 '18
That's half the appeal- you want a NPAW light RPG bathed in saccharine retrofuturism with catchy jingles? Fallout all day.
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u/Heliolord Apr 18 '18
Eh, I'm okay with the vegetation. It's not necessary realistic, but it's following the trend of a 1950s idea of nuclear Armageddon. I wouldn't mind occasional green spots, though, like Harold's garden in 3. Some places where the plants adapted to the radiation and are regrowing, with maybe some violent and dangerous mutations thrown in for fun like giant venus fly traps, killer strangling kudzu, poisonous gas emitting shrooms, or radiation spewing flowers.
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u/Robo-Erotica Apr 19 '18
What FO/Gamebryo+ does over FC5/Dunia is have a world where every damn object has a record of position and time, no matter how insignificant. A rusty tin can in FO is gonna stay in that particlar patch of the desert for the entirety of your playthrough, where as FC will cull the object from memory as soon as the player exits the perimeter.
You can argue the usefulness of that feature but it sure eats up a lot of memory and is part of the reason why FO's worlds are as segmented as they are.
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u/certain_random_guy MOD ALL THE THINGS Apr 18 '18
We are on the same page. I play with True Grass and Commonwealth Conifers, and I can never bring myself to play without greenery anymore. I love the vibe from The Last of Us, and that's only twenty years after their apocalypse.
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u/MadMageMC Apr 18 '18
Exactly! When I look at footage from Chernobyl and Fukushima, and how much the vegetation has not only survived, but reclaimed those areas, I can't help but think Boston and DC should have been far more green than they were.
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u/DeadeyeDuncan Apr 18 '18
Fallout isn't how the aftermath of a real nuclear apocalypse would be though, its a pop cultural view of how Americana 1950s would have viewed the aftermath.
In reality, 200 years after nuclear war we'd probably be back to normal. I mean, 200 years ago to today was the start of the Victorian era with a pre-industrial level of knowledge... and the knowledge isn't even gone in the FO universe.
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u/MadMageMC Apr 18 '18
In reality, 200 years after nuclear war we'd probably be back to normal.
Fair point, and something I've definitely thought about, especially after having read A Canticle for Leibowitz.
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u/WrethZ Atom Cats Apr 18 '18
Eh F01 and F02 only looked like that because they are deserts in real life today, Fallout 3 I could understand since it was DC, which got hit by the most nukes, but boston shouldn't look that bad
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u/Godmadius Apr 19 '18
Best description I've seen for why there is so much radiation all over is the fact that nearly all technology in the FO world had a reactor in it.
It's likely that there were no seeds left in the whole area to allow greenery, the place was completely sterilized.
That being said, what is absolutely inexcusable are the rubble piles laying around all over the place. Are you really telling me that in 200 years no one bothered to clean up any part of the major cities? I don't buy that.
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u/MadMageMC Apr 19 '18
Now, see, I can get behind that, yeah. I will also agree the rubble piles are a bit annoying, too, especially in Diamond City, which they flat out tell us has existed for 150 of those 200 years. If it had, truly, it should have been way bigger and way more advanced than it is, and I shouldn't have had to clear their water filtration systems for them. I mean, if the BOS can build a flying airship and rebuild countless vertibirds and power armors, surely this lot can clean up the streets and build homes out of something more substantial than scraps of plywood and tin.
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u/bleed_air_blimp Apr 19 '18 edited Apr 19 '18
As glitchy as FC5 has occassionally been, at least I can climb ladders, grapple and use zip lines, climb through windows, vault pretty much anything, climb just about anything, and drive damn near everything. It's stupid the Bethesda Games engine hasn't been kept up with the industry in these regards.
FC4 had just about all of this functionality as well, minus the destructible windows you can vault through. Release date 2014 -- a mere 3 years after Skyrim.
In fact, even FC3 had considerably more physical freedom in gameplay mechanics than Skyrim. It had a beautiful natural first-person cover system that didn't need triggering with any button. It had all the vehicle freedoms we've come to expect from the franchise. Released in 2012, just 1 year after Skyrim.
Ubisoft basically took CryEngine and turned it into something incredible over time with Dunia. And the lessons they've learned along the way have been propagated into AnvilNext 2.0 that powers Assassin's Creed: Origins as well. It speaks to the stellar quality of the engines that they can put out games like FC3 and FC4 just 2 years apart from each other. At this point they're easily one of the best open-world game studios out there.
Bethesda desperately needs to do some hiring/poaching on this front. Their engine was barely acceptable when Skyrim released, and it has not aged well at all. They gotta get their shit together, because otherwise their historical franchises are going to die a slow agonizing death over multiple underwhelming installments with great storylines held back by shitty mechanics.
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u/TossMeAwayToTheMount 'Member little lamplight? Apr 19 '18
i want massive cities that feel like cities, not like 12 people that just happen to live in one area or towns with 4 notable people living in it
Seriously, with a skill revamp mod that made some skills of fallout 4 more useful and could get up to 40 or 50 settlers in one of my settlements if i had the charisma for it and it made the settlements feel more akin to an actual town than the depressing slog that is diamond city
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u/FreedomWaterfall Followers Apr 18 '18
But they'd have to implement the same, or at least the same amount of, console commands. They, and the messing around with them, have become a staple of the series. Both series actually. I wouldn't want to play an ES Game in which I can not spawn 500 wheels of cheese at my whim.
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Apr 18 '18
Just the noclip command (TCL - Toggle CLipping) saved my ass so many times.
But using the console is addictive
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u/AJUdale Apr 18 '18
But only as long as it is as moddable, and customizable as the current engine, otherwise give me gamebryo
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u/cwkraft Apr 18 '18
Having played HZD and FC5 most recently I can say improved capabilities would be nice. That said I don't feel they have to toss out the current engine to get there. All that matters is what it's able to do.
The bigger issue and I think what is missed in the discussion about engines is the tools. The designers, graphics folks, audio, etc, all benefit from a set of tools that they've used for years. If they start over with a new engine then someone has to recreate or possibly port all those tools.
The engine is the heart of the game but it's the tools that make the bits we love.
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Apr 18 '18
I'm confident that TES VI will b on a new engine. I think that it's still a few years till we get it, at the soonest I expect it in 2020 and the latest is by 2022
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u/NSA_Chatbot Apr 19 '18
Let me walk through a tent if I'm in power armor.
Power Armor should also be "industrial lockpicks" for doors.
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u/Invicturion Apr 18 '18
"we are proud to be announcing Skyrim, for Android and iOS. As well as Skyrim for 3DS!"
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u/powerage76 Apr 19 '18
I would more prefer something like that:
"We hired two additional writers who are competent enough to write a good main story."
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Apr 18 '18
Implement correct running and walking animations is top on the list for me.
Get the basics right first then move on to the complicated shit.
I had to put the new Assassins creed game down because the running animation is totally off and running feels slower than walking.
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u/RashmaDu Apr 18 '18
I don't know which game you've been playing, but Origins has some of the bet running animations I've seen in a game
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Apr 18 '18
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u/Chesheire Apr 18 '18
But then I look at popular animation replaces for Skyrim/Fallout and a lot of them seem anime-inspired animations. If that's what some people call quality, I'd rather stick with Bethsoft's 'supbar' animations.
Fair criticism, but that is mostly hobby/amateur work.
I personally think that Battlefield has probably had the BEST and MOST dynamic animation system I've ever seen, and it's only grown since BF4. Looking doesn't turn your character model, it only has you upper-body twist (like it would in real life) until you're at a certain point, then it readjusts your lower-body. Additionally, the walking and running movement animations are very fluid, and the transition between them is even more so. Vaulting, swimming, etc. are all very life-like and fluid, and with the new animation engine in BF1, have become more dynamic when it comes to vaulting different heights of walls and ledges.
That's what I expect out of a AAA developer team when it comes to animations - growth and life-like fluidity.
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Apr 18 '18
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if they were building a new engine. Or updating the current one so much it's basically a new one.
That would explain the seventeen re-releases of Skyrim and the VR Fallout. It's to make up for revenue that would come from TES or FO, but have to be put off until the engine is done.
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u/brutinator Apr 18 '18
I mean, riding horses is built into the gamebryo engine, considering that both Oblivion and Skyrim had it.
Though unpopular opinion time, I don't think riding motorbikes/bikes/horses is really that great for a fallout game. It works well in Skyrim where it's very open and terrain is more or less even and normal, but in Fallout there's too much debris and upheaval and points of interest for a horse to be very useful outside of a burden animal. Plus, from a game design perspective, it'd make the Fallout maps feel even smaller than they already do, though I will concede that maybe that'd be a big help on survival mode.
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u/fortevn Bounty Hunter Apr 19 '18
I had to think for half an hour... we... we can’t climb ladder in Bethesda games... oh god.... I never noticed....
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u/budgray18 Apr 18 '18
Man, I just want them to let Obsidian make another fallout game
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u/Draculea Apr 19 '18
This'll likely end up buried, but...
Did you know Catherine uses the same engine? Check out the list on Wikipedia of games using Gamebryo and Creation Kit. It's not the engine's fault, it's Bethesda's design philosophy and methodology of creating pieces.
It doesn't help that each of their games starts out as an extensive mod of the game before it. If they well and truly started off fresh with the engine, it would have no problem doing the things you ask for.
You shouldn't be asking for a new engine - Creation Kit is a technical marvel with what it does - you should be asking for a new design philosophy that doesn't rest on the exact structure of the previous games.
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u/KingUlysses The Faithful Apr 18 '18
I can't explain why, but the ability to go prone and crawl is literally one of my favorite features in any game.
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u/pm_me_your_Yi_plays Apr 18 '18
Load zones were already smoothly designed in damn 2002, where did everything go wrong?
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u/Soulshot96 Apr 19 '18
They have the resources to just update Creation to modern standards...they did some with FO4, but not NEARLY enough.
If they knuckle down and spend the time/money they could keep all their mod support(arguably one of the most important things about their games/engine), and have a engine that people don't laugh at because of its lack of technical prowess.
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u/boothnat Apr 19 '18
Vehicles are a bad idea for TES and Fallout. A huge thing for these games is how detailed every inch is. Every object is movable.
Some things this necessitates are-
Lots of time to load in stuff, so individual objects can load.
"small" maps. By this I mean that they can't have Far Cry style maps. In Far Cry, the world is sized with vehicles in mind, so you have massive spats of relative emptiness. In Fallout, it's relatively easy to get from place to place. Adding vehicles would force them to bloat the map with large empty spaces.
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u/yaosio Vault 111 Apr 18 '18
Why can't they update the existing engine? Why do they have to throw away working features to add new ones?
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u/Riomaki Apr 18 '18 edited Apr 18 '18
Because the average gamer doesn't understand how game engines actually work and regard an engine switch as a magic solution to everything.
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Apr 18 '18
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u/ElZilcho31415 Fallout 4: CONFIRMED Apr 18 '18
This is the only answer here. The current engine is built such that it can and has been updated and upgraded for the purpose of these games as they come out.
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Apr 18 '18
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Apr 18 '18
What do you think other engines do? FC5 runs on a modified Crytek engine that goes back a decade; Unreal engine still maintains legacy features while adding new features. Gamebryo isn't the exception it's the rule.
While I'm not against a new engine, the improvements they made to Gamebryo for FO4 demonstrates that it still has a lot of life in it yet even if it lacks some of the bells & whistles of shinier engines like Crytek.
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u/Lady_Pineapple Apr 19 '18
And please for the love of god please make a local map that isn’t garbage. That 2d piece of shit does not help me find something when it’s three floors up and behind some shitty furniture!
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u/certain_random_guy MOD ALL THE THINGS Apr 19 '18
Oh yes please. The local maps are always next to useless. Not an engine problem, just a regular problem.
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u/JakeAndJavis Weapon-Wielding Chupacabra Apr 18 '18
The next Fallout could have the same graphics and engine as Fallout 3 and I'd still fucking love it & pay full price.
Not really one of those games where graphics and engine work take precedence. Also, I think the addition of vehicles of any sort would kind of mess with the primary exploration aspect of the game - maybe an end-game quest/perk?
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u/huxley00 Apr 18 '18 edited Apr 18 '18
None of this really bothers me. I'm completely OK with the existing engine as long as the story is good and I'm presented a good narrative and interesting choices.
The game engine doesn't need to be revolutionary, IMO. The story does. That is what Fallout has always been, to me, anyway (Outside of 4, which made almost every mistake I can think of).
Just my 2c.
Edit: Even the thought of flying a vertibird seems so...just weird. Flying around the wastelands in my custom vertibird shooting gattling guns at super mutants? It sounds like a movie starring The Rock not a nuanced post apocalyptic wasteland adventure.
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Apr 18 '18 edited Sep 05 '18
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u/slicer4ever Apr 18 '18
Wait, fo4 has vaulting? Why'd they take it out?
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u/yaosio Vault 111 Apr 19 '18
There's probably clipping bugs involved with vaulting and they don't want the player getting stuck in something.
Did you know NPCs can vault through certain windows? The game considers the player and NPCs to be very similar, so whatever NPCs can do you can also do. NPCs even use the existing dialogue system to talk to each other, their answers are scripted though.
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Apr 18 '18 edited Apr 18 '18
I personally hate vaulting, since it feels like I dont have any control over it. I prefer the good old jump, I love timing my jumps perfectly to get over an obstacle. What would be nice would be a climb/drop-down animation though to get to those hard to reach places.
Just some tweaks here and there - and please listen to our feedback/critique (mainly the story) and Im good. Like you said - no need to reinvent the wheel.
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Apr 18 '18
Make the settlement system more like sim settlements and give players the option to build up their settlements on their own too so players who don’t like the settlement part aren’t forced to use it. (And maybe fix all the snapping stuff too)
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u/Grizzly_Berry Apr 19 '18
Look, if Nintendo can do it, I'm sure Bethesda can make a super buggy version of it.
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u/ewenr Apr 18 '18
Let it support community modding.